Child abducted in Portugal

Madge · 09-05-2007 02:06PM #1

I suppose everyone has heard about 3 year old Maddy McCann who was abducted in Portugal.
Don't think they'll find her at this stage. I think the parents are completely at fault. Imagine leaving a 3 year old child alone at night! And they're doctors too.

easyontheeye · 09-05-2007 02:08PM

I dont think debating wether or not the parents are to blame will help

Tha Gopher · 09-05-2007 02:10PM

The parents have some neck criticising the police. When I heard that a couple had left a pair of twins and a girl of 3 in a house on their own I imagined the usual suspects- Adrian Kennedy caller types.

Feckin doctors? Shows theres a fine line between money and sense. Its unbelieveable that two people as wealthy as they presumably are would sooner go drinking and leave kids alone than pay a measly few quid to have them looked after (Portugal isnt exactly the most expensive country buying wise, Im sure the minders were available for under a tenner an hour)

Madge · 09-05-2007 02:12PM

Well it might send out the message that people should not leave their children by themselves. Anyway I don't think there is any debate. The parents were completely in the wrong.

easyontheeye · 09-05-2007 02:12PM

Madge wrote:

Well it might send out the message that people should not leave their children by themselves. Anyway I don't think there is any debate. The parents were completely in the wrong.

so what you hoping to achieve with the argument? the damage is done now

Madge · 09-05-2007 02:18PM

What argument? I just posted my thoughts on the subject.
Sorry, seems I hit a raw nerve with you.

swingking · 09-05-2007 02:20PM

What has the parents being doctors got to do with anything. If they were plumbers would it make any difference.

It is a fine example of Ireland's begrudgery.

It was the parents at fault but blaming the parents doesn't help anything.

Madge · 09-05-2007 02:22PM

swingking wrote:

What has the parents being doctors got to do with anything. If they were plumbers would it make any difference.

Well, I think doctors are seen to be more responsible and have more sense.

robinph · 09-05-2007 02:23PM

Madge wrote:

Imagine leaving a 3 year old child alone at night! And they're doctors too.

The kids were only as alone as any others might be every night whilst they are sleeping upstairs and the parents are downstairs watching the telly, the only difference being that the door was locked to keep the kids inside whilst the parents were downstairs.

seamus · 09-05-2007 02:24PM

There may be something cultural to it.

Apparently back in the sixties, in the big holiday camps it was quite normal to leave your kids alone in the chalet. The people would ask the front desk to keep an eye out, and announcements would often be made on the tannoy along the lines of, "Crying can be heard from Chalet 16", etc.

Of course they're completely at fault. But nobody deserves this to happen. I'm sure they're fully regretting it now, so there's no need to try and stick the knife in, so to speak.

There's a fair chance that whoever did this spent some time watching the family and tracking their movements, so it's reasonable to assume that this may have happened even if they hadn't gone to dinner. It's a three year old child. All someone would need is five seconds and an escape route to take her undetected.

It's not exactly like they just wandered off and got pissed and left them alone all night. They were having dinner 100 metres away and took turns to go check on them every 30 minutes. How many parents have put their kids to sleep, then gone downstairs and watched telly for two hours? It doesn't exonerate them - what if there had been a fire - but they certainly weren't the child abandoning drunkards that some people would make them out to be. They obviously just thought that a short nice dinner alone together would be good, and that the kids would be OK.

scojones · 09-05-2007 02:25PM

Madge wrote:

Well, I think doctors are seen to be more responsible and have more sense.

You'd be surprised. Click Me

Tha Gopher · 09-05-2007 02:25PM

swingking wrote:

What has the parents being doctors got to do with anything. If they were plumbers would it make any difference.

It is a fine example of Ireland's begrudgery.

It was the parents at fault but blaming the parents doesn't help anything.

Its because you expect doctors to have more intelligence and sense than the rest of the population I would have thought. As said, if they appeared on tv in burberry caps, sovereigns and rangers jerseys drinking Carling yid think "feckin typical". You expect doctors to have more sense than these types.

That and being too tight fisted to pay a minder.

Madge · 09-05-2007 02:39PM

seamus wrote:

Apparently back in the sixties, in the big holiday camps it was quite normal to leave your kids alone in the chalet. The people would ask the front desk to keep an eye out, and announcements would often be made on the tannoy along the lines of, "Crying can be heard from Chalet 16", etc.

Yeah, but it's not like that anymore sadly.

seamus wrote:

Of course they're completely at fault. But nobody deserves this to happen. I'm sure they're fully regretting it now, so there's no need to try and stick the knife in, so to speak.

Of course not. But it should be pointed out it's their fault. This terrible situation might set an example to other parents / guardians who have children.

seamus wrote:

It's not exactly like they just wandered off

They did.

seamus wrote:

and got pissed

How do you know they weren't drunk or tipsy even?

seamus wrote:

They were having dinner 100 metres away and took turns to go check on them every 30 minutes.

Not good enough imo. The kids were still left alone.

seamus wrote:

How many parents have put their kids to sleep, then gone downstairs and watched telly for two hours?

That's completely different. The parents are actually present.

seamus wrote:

but they certainly weren't the child abandoning drunkards that some people would make them out to be. They obviously just thought that a short nice dinner alone together would be good, and that the kids would be OK.

Their foolish actions have led to this tragedy, whatever way you look at it.

Glowing · 09-05-2007 02:48PM

In fairness, they're probably feeling pretty regretful of their actions at the moment, and are paying for their mistake in the worst possible way.

The chances of something like this happening is so tiny - I just feel so so sorry for them.

WindSock · 09-05-2007 02:52PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Its because you expect doctors to have more intelligence and sense than the rest of the population I would have thought. As said, if they appeared on tv in burberry caps, sovereigns and rangers jerseys drinking Carling yid think "feckin typical". You expect doctors to have more sense than these types.

That and being too tight fisted to pay a minder.

If they were Burberry Sovereign types, then I would Imagine the child has gone to a better place.

But come on now, they were on holidays, not easy to find a childminder, albeit, one you can trust, and the were only 150 feet away from her. Poor wee bairn is probably in Morrocco by now. Possibly in a Harem. I shudder to think what may become of her, but I think she will be found.

Ghost Train · 09-05-2007 02:59PM

Bah, who ever abducted the kids is to blame, the parents knew the kids were sleeping like they do every day, they were close and were checking on them every so often. Not an ideal situation leaving the kids alone, but there was no way anybody could predict that somebody would abduct the kid

loyatemu · 09-05-2007 03:03PM

from the guardian:

When did Madeleine vanish?

Between 9.30pm and 10pm on Thursday. Her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were dining at a tapas bar in a Mark Warner resort around 100 metres from the apartment where Madeleine and her twin siblings were sleeping. The McCanns checked on the children at around half-hourly intervals. Mr McCann checked at 9.30pm, but when the couple returned at about 10pm, Madeleine had gone. A pool, hedge, wall and alleyway are between the bar and the apartment.

100m=300ft

I wouldn't have thought it was a good idea to leave young kids alone anywhere where you couldn't hear them, but mainly because they could get into mischief and hurt themselves. The chances of the being kidnapped are vanishingly small, you've probably more chance of winning the lottery.

angeldelight · 09-05-2007 03:04PM

While I would never do it with my own children, I can see how they thought they'd be ok. The door to the room was locked, they were checking every half hour, and they could actually see the door of the room from where they were. How many people would think "hmm I suppose someone might tear the shutters off the window and abduct one of my children". They probably thought the only bad thing that would happen would be that one of the kids woke up and was crying.

I'm not excusing them, I would never do it but I can see it from their point of view.

Plissken1 · 09-05-2007 03:11PM

Madge wrote:

Well, I think doctors are seen to be more responsible and have more sense.

HeHe Doctors are people who just did very well in their Leaving Cert (while the rest of us were playing Football), it doesnt mean they are good doctors, just as it doesnt mean they have more sense.

lady_j · 09-05-2007 03:11PM

angeldelight wrote:

While I would never do it with my own children, I can see how they thought they'd be ok. The door to the room was locked, they were checking every half hour, and they could actually see the door of the room from where they were. How many people would think "hmm I suppose someone might tear the shutters off the window and abduct one of my children". They probably thought the only bad thing that would happen would be that one of the kids woke up and was crying.

I'm not excusing them, I would never do it but I can see it from their point of view.

I agree that they prob didnt think much could happen but then twins at toddler age and a three yr old on their own seems a bit ridiculous. Toddlers get up to so much mischief - my two year old nephew can climb out of cots, open doors etc. There was a lot of harm that could have been done without an abuductor involved. it was irresponsible but nobody deserves what they must be going through

seamus · 09-05-2007 03:12PM

Madge wrote:

Of course not. But it should be pointed out it's their fault. This terrible situation might set an example to other parents / guardians who have children.

I don't see the need. It's a bit like having a headline one day saying, "Man steps in front of train and dies", and then the next day saying, "Don't step in front of trains - look what happened to the last idiot".

It's even more obvious than common sense that you don't leave your children unattended. Telling people not to do it is pointless, as those who would do it won't heed the warning. Much like drink-driving.

How do you know they weren't drunk or tipsy even?

That's not my point. People are making out as if they went on the lash and got hammered, and bedamned with the consquences. So what if they were tipsy? They may have had wine with their dinner. That doesn't make them any more negligent.

That's completely different. The parents are actually present.

I disagree that it's completely different. A parent being semi-present doesn't mean that someone who wants to take the child would be prevented from doing so.

Their foolish actions have led to this tragedy, whatever way you look at it.

And *they* lost *their* child. I hardly think that they need to be made an example of.

Sad Professor · 09-05-2007 03:12PM

Terrible story, parents should have known better but that doesn't matter now. Hopefully the girl will still be found. It's not looking good though...

eirebhoy · 09-05-2007 03:38PM

I was minding my 4 year old niece a few months ago and she was asleep in bed. I went down to the off license for a few more drinks, on my bike, and was out of the house for 5 minutes max. I was nervous wreck in case she woke up and realised she was in the house on her own. Imagine a kid waking up and being locked in a house alone for half an hour. The thought of them being kidnapped wouldn't even enter your head but the fact that they could wake up with no clue where their parents had gone could leave them traumatised.

WindSock · 09-05-2007 03:49PM

I dont think they are bad parents. In the same way, I dont think Jamie Bulgers Mother was bad when she turned her back for a split second for her child to be taken from the supermarket. It only takes a moment, I am not a Parent, but I would imagine it would be impossible to have your children tethered to you all day and night.

PinkPrincess26 · 09-05-2007 04:04PM

Its a sad Tragedy but a very prevenatable one.....

I can only imagine how the poor parensts feel but for god sake 2 year old twins and a 3 year old little girl left in the apartments. I would never dream of leaving my baby alone anywere while asleep or awake, you know what i mean..

But blaming the parents isnt going help find the lttle girl.

Please God the poor liitle girl is found alive.... although the longer shes gone the odds on her coming back are slipping away

layke · 09-05-2007 04:16PM

Unfortunately I really do doubt they will find that little girl alive after so long.

Kurumba · 09-05-2007 04:34PM

Why did the person who took Madeline choose her though over one of the two twins i wonder.
I'd say he/she had been keeping an eye on the family and probably knew that the parents dined out at night and left the kids alone, maybe it was a nightly thing the parents did. Although it is very close to the restaurant so the person must have known the parents had just been to check. It sounds a bit random otherwise.
They are partly at fault for leaving them alone in the first place but like other posters said, I can see why they thought the kids would be safe.

Dudess · 09-05-2007 04:49PM

I shudder to think what could be happening to her. I remember there was a four-part drama on child trafficking last year. Some of it was unwatchable. And, apparently, fair-skinned children - particularly blonde ones - are the most highly prized among those bastards. Terrifying. God love the parents - I really don't think there's any point in recriminations. Christ knows they're paying for their mistake.
There was a little English lad, Ben Needham, who vanished in 1991 while on the Greek island of Kos. He would have celebrated his 17th birthday last October.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Needham

Madge · 09-05-2007 05:04PM

seamus wrote:

It's even more obvious than common sense that you don't leave your children unattended. Telling people not to do it is pointless, as those who would do it won't heed the warning. Much like drink-driving.

If people see the consequences it might deter them. That was all I meant.

seamus wrote:

That's not my point. People are making out as if they went on the lash and got hammered, and bedamned with the consquences. So what if they were tipsy? They may have had wine with their dinner. That doesn't make them any more negligent.

Nobody said or is making out as "if they went on the lash". But how do you know they weren't? I was just trying to point out that nobody knows the full story. BTW, consuming alcohol does have an effect you know!

seamus wrote:

I disagree that it's completely different. A parent being semi-present doesn't mean that someone who wants to take the child would be prevented from doing so.

I think that's a naive viewpoint. If the parents are even "semi-present" as you say, then it's less likely a child would be abducted.

seamus wrote:

And *they* lost *their* child. I hardly think that they need to be made an example of.

Of course, but people should be allowed to give their viewpoints and opinion on this tragedy.

eirebhoy · 09-05-2007 05:07PM

jessie1 wrote:

Why did the person who took Madeline choose her though over one of the two twins i wonder.

I think it's pretty obvious. What's the first thing that comes to your head when you hear a man has kidnapped a kid?

Reports are that he might be British so was probably in the same restaurant as the parents and watching them go in and out.

vorbis · 09-05-2007 05:11PM

em the people at fault are the ones that abducted the kid! People like Madge who want to assign blame for no other reason than to feel smug have a disgusting attitude imo.

Child abducted in Portugal

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