Krav Maga or MMA in classes in Dublin Southside?

Colm_OReilly · 30-04-2007 11:08PM

right from the start?

Yes, I've people starting and in their first class they'll be sparring. I'll pair them up with someone for 30 seconds or so with an objective like "hold him down" or "get him off" you and let them experience it firsthand. Once you've experienced the problem you're more open to the solution.

first minute of the first class taken?

No, that's the introduction, then the warm up.

About ten-fifteen mins in they'll be drilling: given an objective and a level of resistance they're to offer and then let train it athletically. Some drills are competitive, where both people have an objective and are trying to win. Others one partner is a training aid, adjusting their resistance until their partner can just about execute the technique, then upping the resistance.

Then sparring: intensity at your own level. Beginners invariably are intense and gas out quickly, but sure it's a great experience.

Hopefully that paints a better picture,
Colm

Roper · 30-04-2007 11:14PM

To be fair, that would depend on the BJJ club. I'm sure there are clubs out there who don't train with progressive resistance or even resistance and whose training methods would leave a lot to be desired athletically. Once again it comes down to the methods, not the man!

SorGan · 30-04-2007 11:31PM

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Yes, I've people starting and in their first class they'll be sparring. I'll pair them up with someone for 30 seconds or so with an objective like "hold him down" or "get him off" you and let them experience it firsthand. Once you've experienced the problem you're more open to the solution.

No, that's the introduction, then the warm up. About ten-fifteen mins in they'll be drilling: given an objective and a level of resistance they're to offer and then let train it athletically. Some drills are competitive, where both people have an objective and are trying to win. Others one partner is a training aid, adjusting their resistance until their partner can just about execute the technique, then upping the resistance.

Then sparring: intensity at your own level. Beginners invariably are intense and gas out quickly, but sure it's a great experience.

Hopefully that paints a better picture,
Colm

it does indeed:)
perhaps we can get a brief response from some krav maga exponents, on the question of resistance training?

kravist · 01-05-2007 12:13AM

SorGan wrote:

it does indeed:)
perhaps we can get a brief response from some krav maga exponents, on the question of resistance training?

When training Krav Maga properly, one should always be reminded of if necessary to "Be a Good Attacker!" ie: when throwing a punch, ensure if it is not defended properly..contact is made. How intense this contact is, is determined by the ability of those training.
Similarly, during a stick attack...training partners should ensure the stick would strike but for the hand or body defence of the would be victim.
Obviously..the better the guys are..the harder/stronger/faster the attacks.
When slow fighting....invariably people go faster than they are supposed to. This is not necessarily a bad thing as it becomes more realistic, provided "Safety in training" levels are maintained..Again...the ability (and more often than not a bruised ego) of those training will decide speed etc.

SorGan · 01-05-2007 12:56AM

any padded suit/mma type sparring?
pressure testing etc?

my knowledge is limited here:)

Millionaire · 01-05-2007 12:54PM

O'Leprosy wrote:

"
Why ask BJJers especially about their opinion of Krav Maga submission/restratant techniques - because BJJ is done with full resitance of the opponent. I do a bit of BJJ myself and to be honest, when it comes to grappling/restraint on the floor, it's the business. BJJ has more than proved itself in MMA.

I do it all striking, Muay Thai, Krav Maga and learning BJJ/Grappling.

The problem with BJJ is it takes too long to learn. my own MMA coach tell sme give it at least a year before I can "roll" with any level of skills. (and outside BJJ grappling, I am very experienced MA person).

Also you do not want to be on the ground in a self defence situation, as attacker usually has buddies who will boot your head in, nor will you probaby have nice mat under your knees to stop them getting minced, and nor nice easy to move in training gear.

I much put a hard striking art like Muay Thai, Boxing or Full Contact Kickboxing (KM should be trained striking as per these arts anyway IMO), and some street psychology from the likes of Geoff Thompson ala the Fence etc... I d recommend this a million times over just learing BJJ for the street.

Take the above strike arts e.g. Muay Thai with good boxign skills as your foundation and add a slightly different angle for the street. Spar alot etc. Train hard. learn to hit hard and fats with 6 - 8 punch combos...this I train alot myself on bag, with pad man etc etc.

Then you'll be ok for street. as long as you have "win at all costs attitude"!

kravist · 01-05-2007 01:03PM

I've never trained mma, although i'd like to..so i can only guess the type of sparring they do.
In Krav, Head butts, groin strikes etc are par for the course....so to spar these 100% is almost impossible. I've taken many a good shot on my groin guard that bent me over and even at that, the guys were working closer to 60%.
We do spar with gloves etc, but this only happens at instructor level.
Pressure testing...stress testing would be Krav's equivalent. This would include drills like the victim standing still, eyes closed with attackers surrounding and attacking at will, and the victim dealing as best they could. Again..this can't be done 100%...after all..it's training not fighting. This is more to protect the would be attacker rather than the victim... who would want to turn up again and again if they kept getting knee'd in the groin and headbutted in the face. (unless you wanted to go to the "Learn it all in 24 hours class"..often commented on here)
I guess the Krav ethos is more to train as hard as possible with as little as possible padding. This makes one more aware of the pain both in giving and receiving an attack.

David Jones · 01-05-2007 01:26PM

The problem with BJJ is it takes too long to learn. my own MMA coach tells me give it at least a year before I can "roll" with any level of skills.

Depends on how much effort you are willing to put in. I have guys with under 6 months trainingwho can roll and cause blue belts all sorts of problems. Once you have a grasp of the positions and a few basic subs under your belt, its all about practice, practice, practice with a resisting opponent(s)

I would also argue that anyone with 6 months BJJ under their belt and no other martial arts experience would cause those holding black belts in arts other than judo or BJJ no end of problems. So its a quick sharp learning curve but one well worth jumping on.

Also you do not want to be on the ground in a self defence situation

Granted, but not always a choice and would be nice to have the necessary skills should you end up there.

Colm_OReilly · 01-05-2007 01:54PM

The problem with BJJ is it takes too long to learn.

I'd extend that to saying that fighting takes a long time to learn before you can play, when compared to simpler sports, but any sport or physical activity takes quite a while to gain mastery in it.

Also you do not want to be on the ground in a self defence situation

Again you can extend this one step, I don't want to be in a self defence situation. But like Dave said, when you're on the ground in the dreaded street is not the first time to be put in that situation.

I've never trained mma, although i'd like to..so i can only guess the type of sparring they do.

I don't have access to youtube right now but you could probably do a search for mma training and get something. John has posted vids of his athletes preparing for comp, there was a thread a while back so maybe a boards search for "sbg training" or "sbg training vids"?

SorGan · 01-05-2007 02:01PM

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I'd extend that to saying that fighting takes a long time to learn before you can play, when compared to simpler sports, but any sport or physical activity takes quite a while to gain mastery in it.

Again you can extend this one step, I don't want to be in a self defence situation. But like Dave said, when you're on the ground in the dreaded street is not the first time to be put in that situation.

I don't have access to youtube right now but you could probably do a search for mma training and get something. John has posted vids of his athletes preparing for comp, there was a thread a while back so maybe a boards search for "sbg training" or "sbg training vids"?

and a year before you can hold your own sounds reasonable.
anyone know what the ground techniques in krav maga/combatives are based on/taken from?

Millionaire · 01-05-2007 03:16PM

David Jones wrote:

I would also argue that anyone with 6 months BJJ under their belt and no other martial arts experience would cause those holding black belts in arts other than judo or BJJ no end of problems. So its a quick sharp learning curve but one well worth jumping on.

Granted, but not always a choice and would be nice to have the necessary skills should you end up there.

Yes agree 110% on that. Thats why I am learning.

Yes, KM got ground work, but not to stay on ground, get back to feet asap.

Tactical KM I do lots of defences against MMA G n P, and do alot of wrestling bridge roll work, to get attacker off, and us back to feet. eyes, balls, thrown in too. but KM I do , we realise an experienced grappler would cause problems. many of the guys in the organistation i m in now cross train MMA, SUb Wrestling, Muay Thai, just for their own interests.(a bit like myself)

I do find it a steep learning curve, and will stick at it. I know myself once I get through a certain level it will click for me.

Again for street, assuming we cannot walk away (cause I do not want to be in fights either), I d still go striking.

O'Leprosy · 01-05-2007 07:01PM

Millionaire wrote:

Also you do not want to be on the ground in a self defence situation, as attacker usually has buddies who will boot your head in, nor will you probaby have nice mat under your knees to stop them getting minced, and nor nice easy to move in training gear.

"Also you do not want to be on the ground in a self defence situation," You mightn't have any choice in the situation, does'nt take an international Rugby player to grab a hold of someone in a brawl and for both parties to end up on the floor in a second or two.

" as attacker usually has buddies who will boot your head in " If he has a few buddies with him, either (a) you try run for it like an olmypic sprinter or (b) your fcuked anyway. One fella fending off several attackers is lovely in the movies, unless your Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, etc in real life the chances of it are almost zero for the average amateur martial artist.

" nor will you probaby have nice mat under your knees to stop them getting minced " No BJJer is going to tell you that if it goes to the concrete he is'nt going to get a bruise or two. That's one of the problems with many trad MA promisies by the masters and 'experts', i.e. you'll walk away like James Bond with your maybe hair slightly ruffled but that's all. BJJ/MMAers live in the real world, a stupid brawl is not pleasent and that you'll come out of it without a scratch. But in the white heat of a brawl, with testosterone running wildly thru you, most people could live with a few bumps while wrestling on the ground . Besides, you may have no choice in the matter.

" nor nice easy to move in training gear. " I'm not trying to undermine every statement you make Millionaire, because when it comes to self defence your heart is in the right place, but that's why BJJers train in a Gi. I only got a Gi before last Xmas, done it with reluctance as I thought to be honest, it was just for keeping up tradition/sport etc. Just goes to show how little I knew. Firstly, because the Gi is so thick and heavy and difficult to move in compared to the freeness of a t shirt, it actually similuates grappling in an everyday situation say, a jacket of anorak on. Serious. There are many ingenious choke submissions that can be learned and applied from it, not to mention taking better control of an opponents arms, legs etc Even the belt can be utilised, such as by gripping when someone is trying to pull at your arm to get a keylock or armbar or whatever.

I have no doubt Millionaire with your Muay Thai background that when it comes to striking you can more than do the business. I only done a few classes in Muay Thai and how you blokes can put up with those low shin kicks !!! I'll stick to doing TKD patterns (kata)

. But BJJ does have a steep learning curve, ( God knows I'm long enough trying to learn it ), but a learning curve that's worth learning, even just for the sheer enjoyment/sport of the art itself.

Millionaire · 02-05-2007 09:24AM

O'Leprosy wrote:

does'nt take an international Rugby player to grab a hold of someone in a brawl and for both parties to end up on the floor in a second or two.

Yes, and if one does not address the attacker with strikes to get him out of the game, this has happened me too in real situations...for me dirty tricks worked wonders.

One fella fending off several attackers is lovely in the movies,

I got attacked by 6 in a foreign country, while alone, got 2 sucker punches in the eye, and a bottle attack, and I still managed to fight them off, even though I was coming from a bad start. In the end they did get my wallet, but I damaged 3 bad, and the other 3 ran with the money. I just came out with a black eye and cuts on head from bottle. (and it is not the only 3 - 4 on one I had)....if you have the fighting spirit and the aggression sometimes you can save you butt...or minimise the damage...its down to survival at that stage.
I've been there, I 've done it, I know.

" nor nice easy to move in training gear. "

no need to use a BJJ Gi to get reality...train in jeans, t shirt, jacket if winter in ireland.

but a learning curve that's worth learning, even just for the sheer enjoyment/sport of the art itself.

Yes of course, that why I am a grappling (mix of sub and bjj) beginning student!

(humbling to leave years of striking outside the door of grappling school, thats a good leave you ego behind exercise for any experienced MA person)

O'Leprosy · 02-05-2007 05:58PM

" and if one does not address the attacker with strikes to get him out of the game, ". Doesn't mean that strikes are foolproof at preventing someone taking you to the ground. Look what happened to some of the best striker's in the world in the early UFC's. Ok, they were against first class BJJers, wrestlers, Judo etc, but the boast of striking for decades was that strikers punches , kicks, knees etc would prevent the grappler from getting a hold of them, if not knock them out on the spot. Didn't happen. If Joe Bloggs is determined enough, I'd say he's got at least a 50/50 chance of taking it to the ground in the pandamonium and white heat of a brawl.

" no need to use a BJJ Gi to get reality...train in jeans, t shirt, jacket if winter in ireland. " True, it's possible to use a jacket, jeans, t shirt, but the Gi is stitched super strong. Indeed, a jacket would lend more reality to training, but an ordinary jacket collar wouldn't last too long training in a BJJ club, a couple of classes and the collar/neck would start to be in shreds. Ok, you could buy another cheap one in an Oxfam shop

, but the hardy Gi would probably cost less in the long term

mrknash · 15-07-2007 05:43PM

hi friend,
theres a kravmaga seminar on the 21st and 22nd of july from 10am until 3pm at the okc in shandon street cork its been run by steve folan and aiden caroll two of the best instructors ever to come out of krav maga they are israeli trained and with tons of experience in other martial arts aswell cost is 150€ and worth every cent you will learn so much in a short space of time you can get more details at info@kravmaga.ie i will be attending myself and hope to see you and who ever else is interested in a reality based and proven fighting system

kravist · 18-07-2007 02:19PM

O'Leprosy wrote:

YouTube vid on Urban Tactical / Krav-Maga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgeU312nTH0&mode=related&search=

Well BJJers, what do you think ?

For the record......................
this is not Tactical Krav Maga
The instructor in this clip is Peter Lakatos, IKMF director in Hungary!!

jilindragon · 04-03-2009 03:30AM

hi,guys .recomand a club in city centre
contact master yang:0879349509
or www.jilindragon.com

Krav Maga or MMA in classes in Dublin Southside?

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