Luas for Waterfors

merlante · 27-04-2007 12:37PM

I would just like to point out -- and it makes a big difference -- that none of what has been said amounts to Waterford people telling Kilkenny people 'to get back over the bridge', etc. I have no time for those sort of comments, because for a start it's ridiculous and makes no sense in our globalised, not to mind nationalised, world.

Personally, I choose not to acknowledge county boundaries except for the purposes of hurling rivalry.

There is something inherently sick about about the flag waving that goes on between counties in Ireland beyond the GAA aspects. If people can't tell the difference between pointing out real problems and issues and pure anti-<insert county> parochial flag waving, then that's their problem.

Personally, I want to talk about a possible Luas in Waterford, and it is interesting that my longest post, on this subject, got no replies. As far as I am concerned this thread started to veer off topic as soon as people starting basically saying 'there's no point in talking about Luas's in Waterford anyway because it's all just playing politics'.

run_Forrest_run · 27-04-2007 01:45PM

fair enough merlante, I will offer my tuppence worth on the luas idea: It's a great idea and if it ever did go ahead it would make living outside the city but working in the city a pleasure..possible lines: The Quay - Ardkeen, intersecting at the mall with the City-Tramore line. I would also have a junction point around Ballygunner for the airport that would loop back to the city via the bypass road serving places like Ballybeg and WIT..There would also be a fork at the glass for WIT and joining the line to/from Tramore. If a new bridge was being built they could run a line from the city over to Ferrybank, serving the huge population there.

Within the city centre you would not need to have too many stops because the inner city is nice and compact. The bulk of the stops would be along the routes mentioned above to serve housing estates etc..

OK, I am no transport planner but sure it's only me thinking off the top of my head! This also assumes an unlimited budget!!

Another note: There could be feeder lines running every 2 or 3 minutes connecting outer lines. Such a feeder line would be from one end of the quay to the other...this would also act as a convenience for people in the city to cover the distance in no time...

Hook all these lines up with park and ride facilities and in integrated ticketing system (with domestic and national bus services) and U have a free flowing city where commuting is a dream...and sure we can all dream!

mad man · 27-04-2007 06:03PM

run_Forrest_run wrote:

easy going there mad_man! It seems U have a bit of a chip on your own shoulder! !

Will you get off your high horse and wake up!KilkennyPrat 2004 has a history of popping up over here making jibes against the city that he DEPENDS on for a living.A city that probably invests more in SKK/Ferrybank than Kilkenny Co.Co.

run_Forrest_run wrote:

If everyone was to take your view on people from other counties then a lot of us would be guilty against the Dubs, Cork etc..as a lot of Kilkenny & Waterford people work in those larger cities. Your bitter words scream of parochialism itself!

This is complete bollox.Where am I popping up on other forums abusing people from Cork and Dublin etc?

On the other hand contrast this with Kilkenny Prat 2004!

If every one took MY view there would be no arrogant analogies of Waterford CC to Germanys invasion of Poland.Instead we have to endure the rants of people in Kilkenny from Phil Hogan down to dickheads like Kilkenny Prat knocking Waterford when in fact a strong Waterford is most beneficial to the region.

The General Election will be interesting.I wonder will we see Enda Kenny pitching the "I'll develop Kilkenny in favour of Waterford" like John Bruton did the last time.This is the real parochialism and the sooner the likes of Kilkenny Prat realise Waterford is not the bogeyman the the sooner they will realise that the real agenda is the preferential treatment of the other regions (West in particular) to the detriment of the SE!

run_Forrest_run wrote:

Maybe there is a 'history' between you and KilkennyCat that I am missing!

The only history here is Kilkenny Prats trolling of the Waterford Forum.Check it out!

Bards · 27-04-2007 06:23PM

Would have to agree with Mad Man on this

Sully · 27-04-2007 06:25PM

looksee wrote:

I don't really see a Luas in Waterford, but if we did, who would be running it? Bus Eireann? They can't run what they have got. Someone has already mentioned the service to Tramore supposedly at half hour intervals. When it gets there it is supposed to go various routes around the town but firstly it is impossible to figure out from the timetable exactly what bus follows what route - the only reliable way to get a bus is to go to the terminus, which is not very handy for most of the estates. There is a long held suspicion that the drivers do whatever route they feel like.

Not to sure when you were last using the time-tabling system in Tramore, but its been recently improved and only goes the one route around Tramore. Sometimes they may take a different route, but thats normaly due to traffic congestion or primary schools leaving kids out.

The buses that come are a state, and they are mostly late and leave early.

Sully · 27-04-2007 06:28PM

Bards wrote:

Would have to agree with Mad Man on this

Would agree also. Seems to be bad blood between KK and WC, which is a pitty. However, at the end of the day, it does seem Waterford is doing pretty well and KK do not like this.

After reading route suggestions, im liking the new plan for a Luas but I still have doubts and think this is all an election ploy.

fricatus · 27-04-2007 07:29PM

Sully wrote:

However, at the end of the day, it does seem Waterford is doing pretty well and KK do not like this.

I live in Waterford and work in KK, and I have to say that both are doing pretty well. Surprising as it may seem, I never get any anti-Waterford slagging either, except of course in the hurling context. As long as we're all doing at least as well as (and preferably better than) Dublin, Galway, Cork, et al, then I'm OK with that. (I didn't even mention Limerick - great city, but imagine having their PR problems!)

run_Forrest_run wrote:

The whole land grab issue is tiring now, no land will be changing hands and maybe some in Waterford are sore over that..lets all get over it.

Not attacking you or even your post, just using it as an example, but this whole use of language is nuts: "land grab", "land changing hands". John Paul Phelan stated that the river is the natural boundary: "it shall be defended". Of course we've even heard "Lebensraum" from other quarters.

Could we please have a bit of perspective? We're talking about the redrawing of administrative boundaries here, something that happens regularly in other countries - the UK for example (they even brought a whole county - Rutland - back from the dead a few years ago, and Middlesex - what a funny name! - doesn't exist any more, except for cricket purposes).

mad man · 27-04-2007 07:39PM

Sully wrote:

Would agree also. Seems to be bad blood between KK and WC, which is a pitty. However, at the end of the day, it does seem Waterford is doing pretty well and KK do not like this..

It would appear so but it doesn't have to be this way.This thread digressed from "Luas for Waterford" back to the Boundary extension proposal and despite what r_f_r said it was not me who brought it up. l.The fact of the matter is the Boundary extension extension was a good proposal and measures could have been taken to preserve the KK identity e.g calling the new ward(s) Kilkenny ward.Like the way South Kilkenny is referred to Waterford Rural No.2 for the purpose of the census.There is a good chance in the not too distant future that the biggest urban area in Kilkenny will be Ferrybank and Kilkenny City will be second Fiddle to a suburb of Waterford.However the same area may be a cash cow for Kilkenny Co.Co. for the purpose of rates.This was the situation out on the Dunmore road prior to the last boundary extension.If the boundary extension was such a bad idea then it would have been thrown out because of lack of merit.Instead it was rabble rousing by people who should have known better that prevented it.

It was interesting that there was more positive noises on the issue in the Kilkenny People declaring that both sides have buried the hatchet and agreed on co-operation.This is the type of atitude we need.However there is nothing binding there to ringfence revenue from the area.Also political representation will be poor for SKK people because the constitency as is favours North Kilkenny,The City and Carlow.

Sully wrote:

After reading route suggestions, im liking the new plan for a Luas but I still have doubts and think this is all an election ploy.

It is an election ploy but it is also a good idea and could work.However the Greens jhave been off the blocks first promising Luas for Galway.They will fund this by abandoning the M9 project.It is also worth noting that the third largest area for Green Party support is Galway.So I would be very worried abut them getting into Government.

road_high · 30-04-2007 09:05AM

mad man wrote:

There is a good chance in the not too distant future that the biggest urban area in Kilkenny will be Ferrybank and Kilkenny City will be second Fiddle to a suburb of Waterford.However the same area may be a cash cow for Kilkenny Co.Co. for the purpose of rates..

Are you for real!? I presume this is a piss take or something right? Oh my god the Ferrybank are becoming the biggest urban area in KK. Mental.

BBM77 · 30-04-2007 11:22AM

mfitzy wrote:

Are you for real!? I presume this is a piss take or something right? Oh my god the Ferrybank are becoming the biggest urban area in KK. Mental.

It seems logical to me that in time Ferrybank would become the biggest urban area in Kilkenny (that is the part that is in Kilkenny). When you consider the number of developments planned for the area it does not look that far fetched. A whole village is purposed for the Purcell lands opposite the golf course just to mention one. After all Kilkenny “city” is not that big of a place, sure Tramore already has a bigger population according to the last census.

road_high · 30-04-2007 11:58AM

Ballybrickenman wrote:

It seems logical to me that in time Ferrybank would become the biggest urban area in Kilkenny (that is the part that is in Kilkenny). When you consider the number of developments planned for the area it does not look that far fetched. A whole village is purposed for the Purcell lands opposite the golf course just to mention one. After all Kilkenny “city” is not that big of a place, sure Tramore already has a bigger population according to the last census.

Not a chance. Despite what the Munster express or whoever printed at the time Kilkenny's pop was stated as something close to 8 or 9,000. Howver this includes roughly one third of KK's popn as the Borough boundary dates from Famine times and hgas never been extended to reflect modern Kilkenny.
Given that KK is now within Dublin's commtuer belt (crazy but through) we can safely anticipate further strong growth. Unless half of Waterford city thus decide to move to Ferrybank I see it highly unlikely FBank will become Kilkenny's largest urban area. I thrust this clarifies the matter for you.

road_high · 30-04-2007 12:11PM

Back to the actual topic, Luas for Waterford. Were actual routes mentioned or anything?
Remem how long and drawn out it was in Dublin to get Luas. I really wouldn't hold my breath if I was a Waterford commuter.

BBM77 · 30-04-2007 12:29PM

mfitzy wrote:

Not a chance. Despite what the Munster express or whoever printed at the time Kilkenny's pop was stated as something close to 8 or 9,000. Howver this includes roughly one third of KK's popn as the Borough boundary dates from Famine times and hgas never been extended to reflect modern Kilkenny.
Given that KK is now within Dublin's commtuer belt (crazy but through) we can safely anticipate further strong growth. Unless half of Waterford city thus decide to move to Ferrybank I see it highly unlikely FBank will become Kilkenny's largest urban area. I thrust this clarifies the matter for you.

Just to clarify, an urban area outside the borough boundary is as much a part of a city as the actual city area itself and so should be included as part of said city despite an out of date borough boundary that has no reflection on the modern cities sphere of influence.

merlante · 30-04-2007 12:58PM

The population of Kilkenny borough is 8,661, including environs it is 22,179. Kilkenny as a whole grew by 7% in the past 4 years.

The population of Ferrybank within Waterford city is 936, while the population of the northern suburbs outside the city boundary is 3,465. The total population of the city as a whole north of the river is therefore 4,401 (or 8.9% of the city's population) Waterford city north of the river grew by 32.8% in the past 4 years.

Still, I think it's fair to say that greater Ferrybank will not be overtaking Kilkenny any time soon.

mad man · 01-05-2007 10:35PM

mfitzy wrote:

Not a chance. Despite what the Munster express or whoever printed at the time Kilkenny's pop was stated as something close to 8 or 9,000. Howver this includes roughly one third of KK's popn as the Borough boundary dates from Famine times and hgas never been extended to reflect modern Kilkenny.
Given that KK is now within Dublin's commtuer belt (crazy but through) we can safely anticipate further strong growth. Unless half of Waterford city thus decide to move to Ferrybank I see it highly unlikely FBank will become Kilkenny's largest urban area. I thrust this clarifies the matter for you.

Actually there is quite a strong chace.Most of the growth in Waterford over the next decade is projected for the Ferrybank area.That is almost 20000 people.It is actually worth a look to see the development ongoing in the Belmont and Abbey Park area.If this happens then it will eclipse Kilkenny or be at least snapping on its heels the way Carlow is now.

Depending on Dublins population overspill is tenuous.Carlow Portlaoise and Enniscorthy are the beneficieries here.Market pressures and Housing policy is changing so this may not be sustainable.

But this is all semantics.What you will see happening if the projections are correct is that any commercial or News reports for the area will highlight the fact that it is the the largest urban area in Co. Kilkenny.That is simply the nature of the beast.It may be done for sensational or for reasons of spin but it will happen.

Similar examples are Tallaght being the thired largest urban areas in the Country.Lucan and Adamstown being the size of Galway.Galway being the third largest in city in Ireland etc.Of course if Kilkenny gets its boundary extension it will help.However we all now how hard this things are to acheive.Especially when the emotion arguement replaces the rational one;)

road_high · 02-05-2007 09:38AM

mad man wrote:

Actually there is quite a strong chace.Most of the growth in Waterford over the next decade is projected for the Ferrybank area.That is almost 20000 people.It is actually worth a look to see the development ongoing in the Belmont and Abbey Park area.If this happens then it will eclipse Kilkenny or be at least snapping on its heels the way Carlow is now.

Depending on Dublins population overspill is tenuous.Carlow Portlaoise and Enniscorthy are the beneficieries here.Market pressures and Housing policy is changing so this may not be sustainable.

But this is all semantics.What you will see happening if the projections are correct is that any commercial or News reports for the area will highlight the fact that it is the the largest urban area in Co. Kilkenny.That is simply the nature of the beast.It may be done for sensational or for reasons of spin but it will happen.

Similar examples are Tallaght being the thired largest urban areas in the Country.Lucan and Adamstown being the size of Galway.Galway being the third largest in city in Ireland etc.Of course if Kilkenny gets its boundary extension it will help.However we all now how hard this things are to acheive.Especially when the emotion arguement replaces the rational one;)

Kilkenny hasn't followed the runaway growth of Carlow and Plaoise for the simple reason that the council has been far less pro development and hasn't gone for massive re-zonings on a comparable scale. Que some of the highest house prices in the country..
Assuming Fbank will catch up with KK as regards popn is assuming that KK popn's will remain static/the same. I can't actually belive we are having this debate quite frankly....

mad man · 03-05-2007 08:15AM

mfitzy wrote:

Kilkenny hasn't followed the runaway growth of Carlow and Plaoise for the simple reason that the council has been far less pro development and hasn't gone for massive re-zonings on a comparable scale. Que some of the highest house prices in the country..
Assuming Fbank will catch up with KK as regards popn is assuming that KK popn's will remain static/the same. I can't actually belive we are having this debate quite frankly....

don't want this to turn into a Waterford v Kilkenny thing Mfitzy (which it is becoming).I based my post on projections for Ferrybank.The reasons Kilkenny has not benefitted from the Dublin overspill in the same way as Carlow/Porlaoise is down to distance.If you ask me Kilkenny would be a much better place to live than either Laois or Carlow.House Prices are the same.Kilkenny is 20 miles further and there is a direct motorway now from Portlaoise.You do not have to take my word for it.Look at the census results and you will see.Almost half of Kilkennys growth has been in the Waterford urban area (Ferrybank).Almost half the remainder is in the Waterford Rural areas.This means most of Kilkennys growth is in Waterfords Environs and not Kilkennys.This in essence was the reason for the boundary expansion proposal.

Luas for Waterfors

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