The Nurses.

slipss · 03-04-2007 06:15PM #1

Well the nurses are at it again. I was just wondering what everyone thought about the nurses demands and thier industrial action so far and planned strike to follow.

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 06:24PM

slipss wrote:

Well the nurses are at it again. I was just wondering what everyone thought about the nurses demands and thier industrial action so far and planned strike to follow.

the way u say at it again makes it sound like nurses are out on strike every other week.........which simply isn't true now.

i'd advise anyone that is interested in the subject to take a look at both the INO and the HSE websites and read the bits regarding this. there is a lot of stuff flying around in the media which to be honest isn't all true. At least by reading both the INO point of view and on the flipside what the HSE are saying you canmake up your own minds

DarkJager · 03-04-2007 06:27PM

Whinging about not having a 35 hour week and wanting more pay again, even though they succeeded with a similiar protest a few years back. Money grabbing bastards the lot of them, they make me absolutely sick with the whining they go on with.

03-04-2007 06:30PM

They need to look like this TBH.

But, I don't know, maybe the amount of crap they deal with on a daily basis means they should get paid that much?

is_that_so · 03-04-2007 06:31PM

TBH I will say that they are running it very well. All the speakers I have seen have been well-prepared. I would have a lot of concern about any group who demands 10% and a 35 hour week. It is also disquieting that every time Liam Doran speaks he mentions more industrial action. Health and hospitals is an extremely emotive subject and IMO the longer it goes on the more likely they are to lose what support they have. They are after all in a job in what is effectively a job for life.

purple'n'gold · 03-04-2007 06:32PM

DarkJager wrote:

Whinging about not having a 35 hour week and wanting more pay again, even though they succeeded with a similiar protest a few years back. Money grabbing bastards the lot of them, they make me absolutely sick with the whining they go on with.

They whinge so much about how bad off they are, am I missing something? Are they forced into the job? Is coercion used to make them be nurses? Fact is, they are permanent and pensionable civil servants and they are flexing their industrial muscle because they know they will get away with it.

PeakOutput · 03-04-2007 06:35PM

they should get the raise in my opinion they should not in a million years be giving a shorter working week with the state the health service is in.............sure it would be nice for them but far from necessary and will only mess things up further

and also that nurse in cavan who told the mother of a really sick shild "your entitled to your opinion" when she was told it was ridicolous that her 8 week old kids test results would not be given to the doctor because the nurse couldnt be arsed ringing the lab when the baby is **** blood should be severely disciplined

DarkJager · 03-04-2007 06:36PM

PeakOutput wrote:

they should get the raise in my opinion they should not in a million years be giving a shorter working week with the state the health service is in.............sure it would be nice for them but far from necessary and will only mess things up further

Why should they get a raise? So they can come out again in 3 years time and demand another one?

Stench Blossoms · 03-04-2007 06:37PM

I've always wondered why people get into a profession which they know is challenging before they decide to do it and then moan about it.

purple'n'gold · 03-04-2007 06:41PM

and also that nurse in cavan who told the mother of a really sick shild "your entitled to your opinion" when she was told it was ridicolous that her 8 week old kids test results would not be given to the doctor because the nurse couldnt be arsed ringing the lab when the baby is **** blood should be severely disciplined

This is absolutely disgraceful and should be investigated as a matter of urgency. Is there a chance that criminal proceedings can be brought here?

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 06:43PM

Fact is, they are permanent and pensionable civil servants and they are flexing their industrial muscle because they know they will get away with it

FACT is that most of us aren't permanent at all, most of us are on temporary contracts. yes we may be pernsionable, but that doesn't do me much good now. and no, we're not flexing our muscle because we can get away with it, we're protesting over what we see as unequitable situations within the health service. Its pretty obvious that you didn't take the time to look into any of the arguments on either side of the debate, but instead decided to spout right wing nonsense.......PD voter are we? private sector worker, stuck in a dreary nine to fiver......afraid to say boo to anyone or stick up for your rights as an employee in case the big bad private sector boogey man throws u out? come on get serious here.

I'm far from a pinko commie trade unionist, yes i believe in aspects of it, but i also think that some trade unions go too far, but, the type of rubbish that these 2 posters are coming out with is a disgrace. back up your arguments guys....show whatever intelligence you've got

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 06:45PM

purplengold wrote:

and also that nurse in cavan who told the mother of a really sick shild "your entitled to your opinion" when she was told it was ridicolous that her 8 week old kids test results would not be given to the doctor because the nurse couldnt be arsed ringing the lab when the baby is **** blood should be severely disciplined

This is absolutely disgraceful and should be investigated as a matter of urgency. Is there a chance that criminal proceedings can be brought here?

probably not, because despite what was reported nurses rarely gt involved in test results, that type of thing is going down a diagnosis line. which legally is the remit of a doctor. what generally does happen though is that doctors rely on the nurses to do this kind of thing as they too are overworked and haven't got the time to do this kinda thing.

i don't know all the ins and outs of this case, but they may be a case where individual nurses have to think very carefully about how they commmunicate with patients and relatives. a simple explanation probably would have sorted this issue, rather than a brush off

purple'n'gold · 03-04-2007 06:46PM

It’s hard to imagine that anyone would use a very sick baby as a pawn in their industrial dispute.

boffin · 03-04-2007 06:48PM

purplengold wrote:

Are they forced into the job? Is coercion used to make them be nurses?

No they are not forced into that job but many leave nursing because of the conditions that they work in and the pressure of their job. If it was not for the extra nurses coming in from aboard that are propping up our health system when these nurses leave I can't even imagine the state it would be in.

PeakOutput · 03-04-2007 06:49PM

DarkJager wrote:

Why should they get a raise? So they can come out again in 3 years time and demand another one?

no because apparentyl they do get paid less than the unqualified health care assistants that they work beside which is not fair imo thats why i think they should get the money

shorter week.....its laughable

Malteaser! · 03-04-2007 06:50PM

the way i see it is, that this is a career choice on the part of the nurses, they knew what they were getting into when they decided on the profession and if they weren't happy with the conditions then they should have chosen something else to do! none of these people were forced into their job!

boffin · 03-04-2007 06:55PM

I'm not a 100% sold on the 10% increase but I definately think tho that nurses who are living in the larger cities such as Dublin, Cork and Galway should get an additional living expense - I believe they do something similiar for nurses living in London.

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 06:56PM

PeakOutput wrote:

no because apparentyl they do get paid less than the unqualified health care assistants that they work beside which is not fair imo thats why i think they should get the money

shorter week.....its laughable

thank u for looking into the reasoning behind the dispute

as for the shorter working week......... if in the place you worked 20 years ago you were tld you would the first person to work 35hrs a week by your boss, then over the intervening period, everyone else that you worked with got those shorter hours, but you still didn't...wouldn't you be pissed off? This is despite the fact that you brought it up several times and were told, "ah yeah, we'll get it sorted" but it never was......

nurses didn't go into this not prepared to give anything. the unions offered to engage in a programme of reform within the Health service looking at everything from expanding the role of the nurse to changes rosters. they also said that the 35 hr week could be worked on, and that if we got a time for when it could be implemented, then, we could start to plan for it and look at how it will happen, but the employers said NO, not the nurses.

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 06:58PM

Malteaser! wrote:

the way i see it is, that this is a career choice on the part of the nurses, they knew what they were getting into when they decided on the profession and if they weren't happy with the conditions then they should have chosen something else to do! none of these people were forced into their job!

i'm sorry but how can this be qualified as an argument against anything. why is it a bad thing to want to improve your lot? to try and change what you see as unfair conditions of employment?

of course no one was forced into the job, but i really don't think anyone who trots out this argument has any understanding of what it is like to be any of the health professionals (doctors/nurses/physios etc). despite the professionalisation of the job, nursing and the others are still very much vocational, in that people tend to choose to do the job because they want to give something back, or to help people. maybe not a fashionable thing to say these days but in the main its true.

DarkJager · 03-04-2007 06:59PM

Lots of people in different jobs get promised things that never materialise...its part and parcel of working life. Get used to it.

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 07:01PM

DarkJager wrote:

Lots of people in different jobs get promised things that never materialise...its part and parcel of working life. Get used to it.

so we should just put up with it is what your saying? cool. your entitled to that opinion but i'll ask you, why shouldn't nurses get something? what is your issue with it? anything other than basic anti-nurse sentiment?

boffin · 03-04-2007 07:03PM

PeakOutput wrote:

no because apparentyl they do get paid less than the unqualified health care assistants that they work beside which is not fair imo thats why i think they should get the money

shorter week.....its laughable

I took this from the ino website - it was offered to resolve the above situation...it applies to approx 100 nurses of the 40,000........

What was the offer on pay?

They offered to pay a care supervisors allowance to those staff nurses in the intellectual disability services who are responsible for supervising staff who are paid more than them.

Nightwish · 03-04-2007 07:07PM

I work in the Health Service, and I've never met a more annoying bunch of people than the nurses. They want to work less hours for more money. Their 39 hour week includes paid lunch breaks. My 35 hour week doesnt include that. If my union had Liam Doran at the helm, we'd all be getting paid holidays to Mauritius!

The other nursing unions can go through the government benchmarking process, why can't the INO? What makes them so special that the benchmarking process is beneath them? If they succeed in their strike (which I hope they don't), it undermines benchmarking entirely which means any other public sector workers will strike rather than talk, the next time they want a pay rise.

boffin · 03-04-2007 07:08PM

nurse_baz wrote:

why shouldn't nurses get something? QUOTE]

I honestly really don't like this kind of statment...

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 07:09PM

this offer bascially just makes it ok for the unqualified care workers to get paid more than nurses across the board who go to college for 4 years and study for an honours science degree. hardly seems right?

you'll probably also see on the site, that since 2000 we've lost thousands of Irish trained nurses out of our system. bearing in mind that it cost about 80 grand to educate a student nurse, that seems like an awful waste. Whats one of thier main reasons for leaving???? Working conditions.....

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 07:12PM

boffin wrote:

nurse_baz wrote:

why shouldn't nurses get something? QUOTE]

I honestly really don't like this kind of statment...

sorry
on re reading what i wrote i don't think i phrased that correctly
my question was that the poster outline his/her reasons for nurses not getting what they ask for? i basically just want people to come out with more than, ah tough luck type of answers,

mikemac · 03-04-2007 07:13PM

boffin wrote:

I'm not a 100% sold on the 10% increase but I definately think tho that nurses who are living in the larger cities such as Dublin, Cork and Galway should get an additional living expense - I believe they do something similiar for nurses living in London.

Never going to happen. You give this to this our group and sure enough the gardai, teachers and everyone else will be looking for it.

I hope the nurses fail in their pay strike. Whatever about pay and working hours, nurses get a fantastic pension. Yes, I know it's the same as all other health professionals but maybe nurses should remember this great benefit before they start making demands.

Dr Galen · 03-04-2007 07:16PM

Nightwish wrote:

I work in the Health Service, and I've never met a more annoying bunch of people than the nurses. They want to work less hours for more money. Their 39 hour week includes paid lunch breaks. My 35 hour week doesnt include that. If my union had Liam Doran at the helm, we'd all be getting paid holidays to Mauritius!

The other nursing unions can go through the government benchmarking process, why can't the INO? What makes them so special that the benchmarking process is beneath them? If they succeed in their strike (which I hope they don't), it undermines benchmarking entirely which means any other public sector workers will strike rather than talk, the next time they want a pay rise.

my lunch breaks aren't paid........
and as for other nursing unions....well there is only one SIPTU, and not withstanding the fact that they got into bed with the government a long time ago, and for a lot of thier members have lost a lot of relevancy, they agreed to benchmarking as the super-union that they are. BUT...... lodged their own claims....pretty identical to the INO/PNA claims directly with the employers, they just didn't make as much noise about it. kinda, let the INO/PNA take the flak and we'll pick up the benefits thing.

as for benchmarking.....haven't several other unions rejected it? teachers/bank officals?

boffin · 03-04-2007 07:19PM

nurse_baz wrote:

this offer bascially just makes it ok for the unqualified care workers to get paid more than nurses across the board who go to college for 4 years ans study for an honours science degree. hardly seems right?

you'll probably also see on the site, that since 2000 we've lost thousands of Irish trained nurses out of our system. bearing in mind that it cost about 80 grand to educate a student nurse, that seems like an awful waste. Whats one of thier main reasons for leaving???? Working conditions.....

For your first point - I don't understand what you mean - in terms of your take home pay an allowance deducts your income and therefore you pay less tax -- in terms of take home pay its an increase but just a different way of doing instead of increasing pay. However in terms of net wages those nurses are better off. It works the same as the uniform allowance that nurses get.

In terms of your second point if you read my earlier post I made the same point and agree with you in terms of working conditions --- the work is stressful but does increased pay stop stress and decrease work load.

Traumadoc · 03-04-2007 07:21PM

There are real problems with staff retention of front line nurses- I have worked in hospitals in Dublin that have lost nearly all their half decent nurses.

They are being lost to administration and the easier life in management- funnily no-one in management wants to become a frontline nurse.

Steyr · 03-04-2007 07:22PM

Deleted User wrote:

But, I don't know, maybe the amount of crap they deal with on a daily basis means they should get paid that much?

They knew they type of **** they were going to have to deal with so **** em, Money grabbing bitches.

The Nurses.

Do you support the nurses demands/industrial action? 155 votes

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