The Nurses.

WhiteWashMan

personally, i know how much work they do and how much crap they have to take, and i would support them.

6ix

In full support. I'm not at all involved, but to me, the HSE is a case of "too many cooks..." The money invested is all top heavy, pumped into admin when it should be providing more facilities for patients nationwide (not just Dublin), and better pay and conditions for the staff that work in the sector.

Who here thinks nurses are paid enough for what they do? I'm surprised there isn't a worse shortage, but luckily there's been a good influx of Filipino nurses to keep the system going.

A Random Walk

Is there any reason behind their demands other than "other people get more money than us and work a shorter week"? I'm sure nursing is a stressful job, but so are many professions these days. An average salary of over 50k per nurse strikes me as well compensated already, plus no-one was ever forced to choose nursing as a career.

I'd love to see any private sector worker go into their boss and demand a raise because they're not being paid as much as the highest paid worker in their company.

Nightwish

The money isnt being pumped into admin in the HSE at the moment. The money is going towards new nursing posts, doctors and consultants. I dont think many admin posts have been approved in the past year. Even maternity leave cover is being denied.

WhiteWashMan

A Random Walk wrote:

I'm sure nursing is a stressful job, but so are many professions these days. .

are you rally sure? really really sure?

how many of those stressful jobs involve saving countless lives each and every day, being treated like crap by patients, risking their lives, working awful hours, being physically and verbally abused?

so, are you really sure?

A Random Walk wrote:

. plus no-one was ever forced to choose nursing as a career..

laziest argument ever.

A Random Walk wrote:

I'd love to see any private sector worker go into their boss and demand a raise because they're not being paid as much as the highest paid worker in their company.

ive seen it. but im sure your opinion and your expertise in the matter is as fact.

6ix

A Random Walk wrote:

An average salary of over 50k per nurse strikes me as well compensated already, plus no-one was ever forced to choose nursing as a career.

Now I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you get the above?According to the INO website, the following is the salary scale for a staff nurse. I would doubt, therefore that the average would be more than 35-36k.


€28878-€30323-€31772-€33218-€34659-€35904-€37152-€38395-€39639-€40861- 42165

from here

super_furry

The nurses are 100% right in their actions. The way this joke of a government has treated the health service is disgusting, I just hope that come election time everyone remembers exactly how much FF and the PDs have ****ed up our health service.

PeakOutput

super_furry wrote:

The nurses are 100% right in their actions. The way this joke of a government has treated the health service is disgusting, I just hope that come election time everyone remembers exactly how much FF and the PDs have ****ed up our health service.

ok no arguments there but you do realise it will only get worse if they get a shorter week

gazzer

Just want to clarify a couple of points previous posters have made regarding penions and working hours.


1. Civil Service/Nurses etc pay for their pensions just like people in the private sector pay for their pensions.. The only difference is civil servents and nurses have the money taken from their wages at source whereas private sector staff have to arrange their own pension scheme. The pension is not free IT IS PAID FOR OUT OF OUR WAGES. A percentage is taken from your gross wages every week/fortnight to pay for this pension.

2. Civil Servents already work a 35 hour week so if the nurses get their 35 hour week (which they were promisesd 26 years ago) it will only bring them into line with all other consultants/doctors in the health sector and all other public and civil servents.

gazzer

Is there any reason behind their demands other than "other people get more money than us and work a shorter week"? I'm sure nursing is a stressful job, but so are many professions these days. An average salary of over 50k per nurse strikes me as well compensated already, plus no-one was ever forced to choose nursing as a career.

Nurses salarys are nowhere near the 50K you have mentioned... Maybe after about 20 years work and a few promotions you might get to that figure or else if you do a sh*t load of overtime.. But the point is you shouldnt have to work overtime in order to have a average standard of living should you??

A nurse (after 4 years of college) starts off on around 28,000 euro and it goes up about 1200 euro each year. Not a great wage for a college graduate is it.

PeakOutput

gazzer wrote:

2. Civil Servents already work a 35 hour week so if the nurses get their 35 hour week (which they were promisesd 26 years ago) it will only bring them into line with all other consultants/doctors in the health sector and all other public and civil servents.

like i said before i dont ge this argument that "well that job dosnt work this long so why should this job"

also even if you accept that argument how can the nurses justify making the health service have an even greater staff shortage?

PeakOutput

gazzer wrote:

Is there any reason behind their demands other than "other people get more money than us and work a shorter week"? I'm sure nursing is a stressful job, but so are many professions these days. An average salary of over 50k per nurse strikes me as well compensated already, plus no-one was ever forced to choose nursing as a career.

Nurses salarys are nowhere near the 50K you have mentioned... Maybe after about 20 years work and a few promotions you might get to that figure or else if you do a sh*t load of overtime.. But the point is you shouldnt have to work overtime in order to have a average standard of living should you??

A nurse (after 4 years of college) starts off on around 28,000 euro and it goes up about 1200 euro each year. Not a great wage for a college graduate is it.

its about the same as teachers tbh and they go to college too..............nurses have a tough tough job but they dont have the monopoly on **** pay and long working hours at all. if they dropped the demand of a shorter week id fully support the 10% increase

HammerHeadGym

I can't beleive some of the nonsense flying around on boards. The nurses in this country do an outstanding job, for a lot less than they're worth and the government has shat on them from a height for their trouble. Regularly.

I think anyone who has a problem with how the nurse are 'carrying on' should;

a) Go into an A & E ward this saturday night and explain to them how easy their job is and how they're getting paid well enough as it is.

b) bring a typed copy of your goombah opinions with you to a & e next time your in an accident. I'd just like to see you beg a nurse for help after saying how much they're sponging.

Oh, and random walk, I'm dying to know, what jobs are as stressful as nursing. I'd love to know.

PeakOutput

HammerHeadGym wrote:

I can't beleive some of the nonsense flying around on boards. The nurses in this country do an outstanding job, for a lot less than they're worth and the government has shat on them from a height for their trouble. Regularly.

I think anyone who has a problem with how the nurse are 'carrying on' should;

a) Go into an A & E ward this saturday night and explain to them how easy their job is and how they're getting paid well enough as it is.

b) bring a typed copy of your goombah opinions with you to a & e next time your in an accident. I'd just like to see you beg a nurse for help after saying how much they're sponging.

Oh, and random walk, I'm dying to know, what jobs are as stressful as nursing. I'd love to know.

please explain to me how the system will cope with affectively 7k less nurses

WhiteWashMan

PeakOutput wrote:

please explain to me how the system will cope with affectively 7k less nurses

and by which, do you not think there is a problem with a system that cannot bring new nurses into employment?

PeakOutput wrote:

its about the same as teachers tbh and they go to college too..............nurses have a tough tough job but they dont have the monopoly on **** pay and long working hours at all. if they dropped the demand of a shorter week id fully support the 10% increase

so, youre employed by the same employer, but someone else gets better pay and rates than you do. do you sit there and take it, or do you leave and get a job somewhere else?

PeakOutput wrote:

ok no arguments there but you do realise it will only get worse if they get a shorter week

im sorry, what will get worse?

kmick

My wife is a nurse and it is a damn tough job and the money is average. I think the blame for all this lies squarely at the feet of the government. They are out of time and out of ideas. If you give one civil servant a 35 week you better the hell give it them all. Same goes in private industry if you give one emplyee a 35 week you better give it to them all.

Remember the government is their employer so if a suit in Revenue only has to work 35 hours a week to get paid his full wage by his employer 'the government' then same applies to nurses whose employer is the governement. As far the 10% - if they agreed to the benchmarking then why go back now?

As regards Unions - they are cowboys.

PeakOutput

WhiteWashMan wrote:

and by which, do you not think there is a problem with a system that cannot bring new nurses into employment?

of course the problem is the system..........the trouble is they are not fighting for changes in the system(they are not even fighting for a refined definition of their roles as far as i can see)

so, youre employed by the same employer, but someone else gets better pay and rates than you do. do you sit there and take it, or do you leave and get a job somewhere else?

well as i am in the private sector i leave and get a new job but like i said i think they should get the pay increase even though its absolute crap to say that you should get something because someone else has it...look for more money on your own merits not someone elses imo

im sorry, what will get worse?

the quality of care and staffing levels in hospitals

PeakOutput

kmick wrote:

Remember the government is their employer so if a suit in Revenue only has to work 35 hours a week to get paid his full wage by his employer 'the government' then same applies to nurses whose employer is the governement. As far the 10% - if they agreed to the benchmarking then why go back now?

As regards Unions - they are cowboys.

i agree with you about the benchmarking the nurses should ideally stick with that process

BUT just because someone else in the same organisation works different hours does not entitle a completely different job description to the same thing


i work in customer service.......i have more of an education than my superior i get paid less.......i have to be their for 4 10 hour shifts a week......he can come in get his work done and leave. my point is there are "apparent" inequalities everywhere its the way of life

ill say it once more just because someone else has something does not entitle you to it

Tha Gopher

It seems to be that you cant criticise the nurses. I have seldom if ever heard a politician or commentator lash them in the same way the teachers or guards got during their strikes.

Agamemnon

I suppose it's because the public have a higher opinion of nurses than teachers or guards. Anyone who's ever spent time in hospital will feel grateful towards them.

super_furry

Tha Gopher wrote:

It seems to be that you cant criticise the nurses. I have seldom if ever heard a politician or commentator lash them in the same way the teachers or guards got during their strikes.

That's because the public realises that they are overworked, underpayed and yet still manage to do a brilliant job.

Tha Gopher

Yes but they still shouldnjt take part in action which puts lives at risk. And apart from that, wasnt MRSA spread by medics not bothering to adhere to basic hygiiene rules?

PeakOutput

super_furry wrote:

underpayed

they are the highest paid nurses in europe apparently

Iompair

I have my doubts they're the highest paid in europe. I've heard a lot of irish nurses move to england or the states for better pay and conditions. Also if the pay is so good why have we had to go as far afield as the Philippines's to recruit new nurses?

Where did you get this fact?

Jumpy

super_furry wrote:

That's because the public realises that they are overworked, underpayed and yet still manage to do a brilliant job.

Overworked - yes
Underpaid - yes
Underappreciated - yes
Brilliant Job? - Hell no.

super_furry

Jumpy wrote:

Brilliant Job? - Hell no.

Given the sickening lack of resources and pressure they're under, they do an amazing job. I used to go out with a nurse who worked in a casualty department and you wouldn't believe the stories I've heard. That's even without mentioning the abuse - both verbal and physical - they have to put up with from pissheads at the weekend.

PeakOutput

Iompair wrote:

I have my doubts they're the highest paid in europe. I've heard a lot of irish nurses move to england or the states for better pay and conditions. Also if the pay is so good why have we had to go as far afield as the Philippines's to recruit new nurses?

Where did you get this fact?

newstalk 106 ill google it in a second

yawara

Jumpy wrote:

Brilliant Job? - Hell no.

Yeh, explain this part to your "argument".

PeakOutput

cant find it on google but thats hardly suprising, im prepared to believe the researchers of a nation wide news station until proven otherwise

still no1 on the pro nurse side has explained how the system will cope after the working week shortage

6ix

I think it's been stated in the media, that they are "among the best paid in Europe". Comparing salaries in Europe doesnt really show the whole picture. What about cost of living here compared to elsewhere?