Money Disagreement - Am I wrong?

PeakOutput · 26-03-2007 06:09PM

i didnt read all the replies as i am in a rush but

A) you are 100% right they decided to go and were going to book their own flights and you offered your tickets as they were going to waste and would prob be cheaper than the ones they would book as it is closer to the time. why should they get free flights???????

b) you offered to cover the name change which is what keeps the above fair as it was your fault, so to speak, that the tickets were going to waste in the first place they shouldnt pay a penalty for that

c) they were completely trying to take advantage

d) something similar happened me last year going away, on girl had the responsibility of booking acconadtion so she booked a 4 bed room for us, say 15 euro a night for arguments sake, and a double room for her and her boyfriend, say 25 euro, then decided to add the total cost together and divide by 6 blatantly(at least to me) ripping us off.

my point is when it was brought up it caused huge ruptions some people just refuse to admit they are wrong when it comes to money things and others jsut try to get threw life as cheap as possible i think in your case its definetely the latter (spelling)???

Theta · 26-03-2007 06:13PM

I really don’t see how people are thinking the OP is being unreasonable, If someone especially someone who isn’t my direct friend even a friend of my brother offered me flights I wouldn’t go unless I was allowed pay for them in full or even have offered to pay for them in full before presuming I could take them.

At the end of the day he is doing me a favour for having the tickets and I’m doing him a favour for taking them off his hands. Why should I travel at his expense and those people who said that you were losing the money anyway it’s beside the point. Those two girls are taking advantage of that fact to get themselves a free ride.

If i was the ones with the tickets and if the twins had of offered to pay at least some of the money it would have been gravy with me even if it wasnt the full amount I prob would have just given it to them. But the fact that they presumed they were getting the tickets for free would have pissed me off.

PeakOutput · 26-03-2007 06:21PM

irlmarc wrote:

But the fact that they presumed they were getting the tickets for free would have pissed me off.

i think thats the main problem any of my friends would of offered me the full amount so then it would be up to me to give them cheap or whatever which i more than likely would................if some randomer says they are going to go and i only find out they are going because they know i have tickets going to waste there is no way id give it to them for free or anywhere close to it.....................imo that is completely taking advantage

Theta · 26-03-2007 06:23PM

PeakOutput wrote:

i think thats the main problem any of my friends would of offered me the full amount so then it would be up to me to give them cheap or whatever which i more than likely would................if some randomer says they are going to go and i only find out they are going because they know i have tickets going to waste there is no way id give it to them for free or anywhere close to it.....................imo that is completely taking advantage

Exactly anyone in my cirlce of friends would have instantly offered to pay for those tickets.

spinandscribble · 26-03-2007 07:00PM

thats the thing however, this is friends of a friend! come on! if its a pal yeah you'd cut them a cheaper deal or use it as a pressie but this woman didnt have loyalty to these girls. greedy little twits.

26-03-2007 08:22PM

Savman wrote:

they have every right to want to fill those seats with other people and it's not unreasonable to expect you to accommodate.

Accomadate in what way though....
It is unreasonable to expect something for free or on the cheap on the back of someone elses misfortune.
In actual fact it should be common curtesy to offer something for the tickets separate from the cost of changing them.
In theory if name changes are allowed on the tickets he could have sold them on in private to whom soever he wanted and have been less out of pocket.

mickoneill30 · 26-03-2007 08:40PM

The OP had 3 choices.

Keep the tickets and lose the money.
Give the tickets to these cheap arses that he didn't know for free and lose the money.
Try and recover some money for the tickets.

Which one would we all do? (unless we were rich). I would have done exactly the same as the OP. It's a bit presumptious for the twins to think that just because somebody they barely knew wasn't able to go that they could just get the tickets for free. There are a fair few people around like that though unfortunately.

Chinafoot · 26-03-2007 09:52PM

irlmarc wrote:

If i was the ones with the tickets and if the twins had of offered to pay at least some of the money it would have been gravy with me even if it wasnt the full amount I prob would have just given it to them. But the fact that they presumed they were getting the tickets for free would have pissed me off.

This is what my problem was tbh. The fact that they just presumed that they could have the tickets without even speaking to me about it (apparently this had been mentioned amongst them a few days before I heard). If they had come to me and said "look the twins really want to go but they're a bit strapped at the moment. could we sort something out?" Then I would have been more than accommodating.

At no point did I expect the full amount in return knowing that they had to pay for a name change, and I would think that people who would expect that were being unreasonable. Had they given me the €150 and paid for the name change (which was suggested to them also...I know the first offer didn't make much sense and I guess thats where text messages are bad) they would have paid the same amount as everyone else going on the trip.

Also, I have met the twins 3 times. They are the younger sisters of my sister's mate. They are not my close friends and I don't see that I have any obligation to them.

Gordon, to answer your question of whether I would have let them have the flight if I had only paid for myself.. if they had approached the one ticket in the same way that they have the two, then I would probably be just as annoyed. It's not the money, it's the way it was done and then the pissed off attitude I got back when I said it was unfair.

savman wrote:

they have every right to want to fill those seats with other people and it's not unreasonable to expect you to accommodate.

They have every right to want to fill those seats? They didn't pay for those flights and they have no right to expect them to be handed over for nothing without even speaking to me about it. In what way do I have to accommodate them? I paid for the flights. Nobody else is having to pay for them. Mine and Claire's not going hasn't had any affect on the cost of the trip for the others as the hotels rooms have been sorted and everyone is still playing the same amount that they were originally quoted. There is no need to fill the seats and therefore there is no need for me to hand over the tickets.

Anyway, I apologised to Linda for it all being done over text messages and I want to let the matter lie with the girls at this stage as I don't want things to get further out of hand. Particularly as she is my sisters friend. Hopefully that apology will be accepted and she will try to see my point.

My sister Emma has suggested two of her friends that she can ask to go who would be perfectly happy to pay €150 and pay the name change themselves. According to her they would insist on it.

Maybe I'm just so used to my own group of friends who always insist on paying our own way. I had some job stopping Claire giving me back the money!

Anyway I appreciate all the advice lads and lassies. Hopefully things will sort themselves now.

LegacyUser · 26-03-2007 10:31PM

so 2 of your mates will be sitting on a plane, in seats which would have gone to waste anyway, on their way to a great holiday.. why begrudge them?

tbh, I'd be more than happy to see two of my friends make use of the plane space that your airline would have just sold on to some randomer anyhow.

you couldnt go. in reality, why should you get ANY money back?

perhaps a friendly gesture might have been nice, and what I would have done in their shoes, but to be so offended by the whole thing says more about you than them.. just tell them to enjoy it, let them pay for whatever names they want changed, and move on!

Chinafoot · 26-03-2007 11:18PM

blegg333 wrote:

so 2 of your mates will be sitting on a plane, in seats which would have gone to waste anyway, on their way to a great holiday.. why begrudge them?

They're not my mates. They are the younger sisters of my sisters mate.

blegg333 wrote:

you couldnt go. in reality, why should you get ANY money back?

Why should they assume they can just use them without asking me about it first?

blegg333 wrote:

just tell them to enjoy it, let them pay for whatever names they want changed, and move on!

Like I already said (if you'd read the whole thread) there are two other people who want the flights now. So yeah, I have moved on.

spinandscribble · 26-03-2007 11:31PM

dont even bother repling again hun some ppl have trouble reading posts to get the full facts. no more need to explain yourself

Blush_01 · 26-03-2007 11:33PM

Sorry, I know this is pretty much talked out at this point, but I'd just like to add my two cents.

I think the OP was perfectly right in expecting some money back if the flights she paid for were to be used. So the story thus far is:

You book a holiday with your friends, and you can't go. You pay for the two flights you had booked, because it's not fair to expect anyone else to finance your change in situation. You don't WANT to give the airline extra money, but you don't want your friends to be out of pocket. To that end, you justify the loss of the cash to yourself.

Later, it is suggested that two other people take the two places you would have taken. You still have the flights that nobody is using. You still can't go. Ticket prices have risen as time passed. It works out cheaper for them to buy the tickets from you than for them to buy new tickets. You also are given a chance to get back some of your dead money - effectively EVERYONE wins.

You, to be fair about it, offer to pay the charges incurred in changing the names on the tickets. You're being reasonable here - in fact, you, if you really wanted to be tight about it, could find out the new price of the flights, add the price of the name change to the old flight price, and just pay the difference - the two new travellers would be no worse off. But you don't. Good for you.

Then it comes to light that the two new people who you don't even know expect to use your flights, paying only for the name change on the tickets - it comes to somewhere in the region of €100 which is €50 each for them. You lose the €250 and they get a massive 60% off the old ticket price (not even considering the price may have risen in the meantime and they're saving additional funds on your misfortune) which you think is unfair.

Can anyone genuinely and logically explain where the OP is wrong so far, because I sure as hell can't!

The only thing that is wrong here is the OP's stubborn/frustrated withdrawal of the offer of the old flights. To be honest, if I was being taken for a bit of a ride like that, I'd get annoyed and tell them to forget it too. They'll now have to go and buy tickets at the new higher price, because they expected too much and it backfired on them. You're no worse off than you started, apart from being frustrated and annoyed that people expected to profit from your loss without even attempting to make the playing field a little fairer by sweetening the deal for you.

Bottom line is - if the twins really wanted to go they'd have had to pay for the flights. They were being offered a cheap deal on the flights by the OP but they wanted everything for nothing, rather than just a great bargain. Nobody can fault the OP's frustration or annoyance in relation to that, even if they don't agree with her stubbornness. (I know I'd have done the exact same thing as the OP. I'd actually be mortified to think I'd act like the twins if in a similar situation.)

Rudolph Claus · 27-03-2007 12:01AM

Women :rolleyes:

Nevyn · 27-03-2007 02:19AM

Nuttzy, unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

de5p0i1er · 27-03-2007 04:46AM

Your in the right here. there been bitchy to you cos they can't get something for free and they thought they could.

Carrigart Exile · 27-03-2007 08:18AM

Kenny 5 wrote:

You're right, she's trying to screw you over.....don't change the names, take the hit for the €250 out of stubborness and leave her get her own flights.

Alternatively you could all sit down, remove the mobile pohoens which are the problem and agree a compromise saving everyone €100s, however, stubborness is a choice

PeakOutput · 27-03-2007 09:52AM

Carrigart Exile wrote:

Alternatively you could all sit down, remove the mobile pohoens which are the problem and agree a compromise saving everyone €100s, however, stubborness is a choice

he is not being stubborn he expects common courtesy not to be taken for a ride

roberta c · 27-03-2007 08:51PM

if you had heard they were going to go, and offered them your tickets for free, or a reduced price then they should be very grateful and it would be a nice thing to do etc.
but for them to assume your giving them free tickets is ridiculous!

chump · 27-03-2007 09:05PM

I think you're being mean. You had written off the tickets and hadn't tried to offload them? ... So word gets out that you weren't going - and the other pair said they'd take your tickets and pay for name change.

So basically your tickets don't get 'wasted'

That's it yea?

I think you're being a mean git.

I also think it would be courteous of the girls to offer you a gift or token of appreciation on returning or before going.
But of course the transaction didn't take place so how could they.

davyjose · 27-03-2007 09:10PM

KdjaCL wrote:

Imo yes, you accepted the loss as you couldnt go but once found out someone else would go tried to get the money you accepted you lost back.

If it was me and i knew i couldnt go i would let someone else take the flights.

kdjac

Doesn't mean she owes someone a ticket. The fact is the other two were highly presumptuous to expect that they were getting free tickets.

i'm with Kenny5 - screw 'em - take the loss and keep the ticket.

0utshined · 27-03-2007 09:53PM

chump wrote:

So word gets out that you weren't going - and the other pair said they'd take your tickets and pay for name change.

So basically your tickets don't get 'wasted'

That's it yea?

No, actually it's not quite that.

The problem here is that there was a presumption on the part of the twins and their sister. They assumed that they could just have Chinafoot's tickets. If they'd shown some tact they probably could have but to just presume they are there for the taking without even asking is just bad manners.

How it should have gone:

Linda to Chinafoot's sister : The twins would love to go but they're smashed at the moment and can only stretch to a name change. If your sister isn't going to use the tickets do you reckon she'd let them? If not it's cool.

Chinafoot's sister relays story to Chinafoot who thinks: "Well they're going to waste anyway." or "nah I'll hold out and see what happens"

Either way the choice is with Chinafoot to do what she likes, she did pay for them after all.

How it did go:

Linda to Chinafoot's sister : "The Twins are thinking of going."

Chinafoot's sister relays story to Chinafoot who thinks : "I see a way for everyone to win here, I recoup some of my cost and they get cheaper flights"

Linda to Chinafoot : "Eh, actually we're having your tickets. Our plans are based around getting your tickets for free. Oh did we not ask you?"

At first read I was thinking she should just let them have it but thinking about it further I reckon she is in the right, they can't just assume that she'll want to give the tickets away to them, especially when she doesn't know them too well.

the_syco · 27-03-2007 11:28PM

Screw them over. Sell the tickets at a reduced price to complete strangers.

astrofool · 28-03-2007 12:19AM

Thaedydal wrote:

Nuttzy, unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

OT it may be, but there's definitely seems to be a difference in opinion between the males and females on this one

Red Alert · 28-03-2007 09:27AM

Maybe a more 'hard goods' example might set some people here straight: Let's take a case in point. At the moment I am trying to sell a laptop. I bought it just about two years ago because I needed it for college. Now having moved on and wanting to get an Apple, I want to offload this one. So I'm selling it with an asking price i'm prepared to be flexible about. The machine is pretty well spec'ed still nowadays.

Now, the laptop was very useful to me until the end of the year. However, since I moved to Linux (which doesn't run my research software superbly on it), it hasn't been a very good fit. So the usefulness of the laptop to me has decreased a lot. However do you think I should just give it no strings attached to someone who knows I can't use it and wants to make a quick buck?

She gave the girls what I think was an excellent offer, especially considering they were people she wasn't overly friendly with. What's their big problem considering they are going to be financially worse off for not giving her her asking price.

Maybe next time putting them on adverts.ie might be a better idea

astrofool · 28-03-2007 03:46PM

A laptop is nothing like a set of plane tickets which have a definite expiry date. But then, i've often given away old hardware which is of no use to me anymore.

Blush_01 · 28-03-2007 11:36PM

Astrofool, I think you're really missing the point. In a BIG way. The tickets were never the property of the two girls, they had no claim to them. (They still don't and the OP has found a new buyer for them.) But the girls saw the chance to capitalise on someone else's poor fortune. That, to be frank, makes them scabs.

Sir Oxman · 28-03-2007 11:51PM

Blush_01 wrote:

Astrofool, I think you're really missing the point. In a BIG way. The tickets were never the property of the two girls, they had no claim to them. (They still don't and the OP has found a new buyer for them.) But the girls saw the chance to capitalise on someone else's poor fortune. That, to be frank, makes them scabs.

That's about the height of it, alright.

I can understand the OP having a headwreck over it - it's a clash of two different mindsets - in the OPs world (and most people's I would hope) a bit of decency and respect exists - it's the opposite in the 'twins' world.

Worse, I think, is the OPs sisters friend (the twins sister) for facilitating this devious plot!

Oh and it ain't a male/female thing - I've had similar attempts made on my eh good nature by both - it's a mindset.

DS · 29-03-2007 12:54AM

Anyone saying the OP is being stingy is an idiot and shouldn't be taken seriously. It would be completely different if the OP had offered the tickets as a gift, it obviously didn't happen like that.

It was basically a business deal from which both parties stood to gain. To be honest a bit of mathematical ability would have made it a lot more straightforward.

WindSock · 29-03-2007 01:04AM

Either a communication error or The other lot are expecting a free ride. I would say that it would probably have been best to actually deal with the two in question. It may not have been their idea at all, it may have been entirely the middlewoman.
If you were talking to the twins directly, you could have negotiated a better deal.
At least you pulled out and aren't left stranded with a bunch of tight arses;)

Chinafoot · 29-03-2007 01:04AM

DS wrote:

To be honest a bit of mathematical ability would have made it a lot more straightforward.

Linda's an accountant. Funny eh?

Anyway, thanks again for the advice and opinions folks.

Money Disagreement - Am I wrong?

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