The Slapping Debate.

Unless you are going to talk about the hard data from studies, most of this thread is purely anecdotal and your going around in circles on both sides of the argument, and proving nothing.

Hitting children is a habit. Probably doesn't do them much harm if you don't hit them too hard. Other methods of disciplining children take more effort. I don't hit my kids but I don't find that I am fighting the urge because I am not in the habit of hitting them.

Parents wil always defend their parenting methods and post-rationalise them. To do otherwise is to admit to being bad people.

Fear and respect are different things. Think of the boss who threatens to fire you every week or dock your pay as opposed to the one who can motivate and inspire loyalty.

I would imagine "inconsequential force" as force that does not cause injury or leave a mark on the child.

im not sure how they would define “inconsequential force”. However there was an Interesting debate on TV while ago i think it was late late show but not quite certain, re banning of smacking in ireland. i am interested in parents views on smacking here.

Do you smack, have you smacked. At what age did you start smacking. Would you support total ban or new zealand model.

This is good. There is a high rate of infanticide and domestic violence in New Zealand. I think it will help the situation.

This is a good website...

http://www.nzfvc.org.nz/NewsItem.aspx?id=95

There are loads of anti violence intitiatives and charitable trusts being set up. The Re elected Labour government are seemingly getting heavy with this issue, along with the Green Party.
New Zealand has the 3rd highest rate of infant mortality in the OECD (I was wrong to say infanticide)

http://www.savethechildren.org.nz/new_zealand/newsroom/child_abuse_deaths.html

Stats for offences in the last 10 years

New Zealand


Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2006
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
March 6, 2007



''Child abuse continued to be of concern to the government. The government promoted information sharing between the courts and health and child protection agencies to identify children at risk of abuse. For the period July 2005 through June, there were 20,833 applications to Family Court for guardianship and parenting orders under the Guardianship Act or Care of Children Act and 7,782 applications for protection orders under the Domestic Violence Act.
There were 630 prosecutions and 254 convictions involving assaults on children in the 12-month period ending June 30''.


Thats as recent as I can find at the moment. Considering the population of NZ is at 4.1 Million almost the same as Ireland, I would think this is very high. I do not have statistics like this for here.

spurious wrote:

There have been some dreadful high-profile cases in NZ over the past number of years where 'smacking' ended up with a dead child. They have three times the rate of UK child deaths due to maltreatment:
Save the Children report
These reports are very upsetting to read (warning):
http://wairarapa.co.nz/times-age/weekly/2001/lillybing.html
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/1118042

Ignoring my own reservations about smacking, and I won't comment on that since that debate goes nowhere. But its a large leap and perhaps even disingenuous to claim smacking ended up with a dead child in these cases. Theres a difference in smacking and beating/scalding a child to death.

...During the two week trial the court heard how they subjected the boy to regular beatings using a baseball bat, vacuum cleaner pipe, rods and a wooden spoon, and punched him in the face....

I can't even quote from the other link its too horrendous. But suffice to say it goes far beyond smacking. You can't claim that smacking directly leads to this level of abuse either, as in the vast majority of cases it doesn't. Thats not meant to be an argument pro smacking either.

I will never hit my children. It taught me nothing other than what it feels like to feel humiliated. Does not work. Can quite honestly say that all it did to me was severe damage.

Spanking children is one of those subjects that people feel very strongly about.......and rightly so. I did child care in college, and I now work in a school as a special needs assistant.

The odd spanking is not classified as child abuse.......child abuse tends to be regular and far more serious than a slap. The most dangerous form of abuse is emotional or mental abuse. That is what we were thought in college. And as for working with kids.....there are days you'd love to strangle some of them. An abuser would......there is the difference. Kids know exactly what buttons to push, and they will.

Children do need discipline, and it needs to be constant. Wether it be both parents doing the same thing, or keeping to that discipline all the time (e.g the naughty step). As for spanking, I know that I was spanked the odd time. But honestly being put to bed was the worst thing ever. Although I never cursed at my dad again when I got a slap for doing it when I was 4!

I think sometimes people spank out of fright. If my child went to run out in front of a car, I would be seriously tempted to spank him/her lightly on the bum. Again I'm only pregnant and I don't have a child yet. I will try not to spank, but it wouldn't surprise me if I did spank at least once. And as for tantrums......... I find ignoring it totally works. Rewards are better than any punishment. Every child is different........so the punishment and reward will be different for each child. Use their personality, and what they like in the decisions.

I remember being a teenager and thinking I knew everything, and my parents knew nothing. Some things never change, and I don't even want to think about when my lil sprog will be a teenager. So I think I'll block that part out for a few years.

Sorry for blabbering on a bit, but esp comparing a spank to child abuse that can kill a child is a bit of an over reaction. I was spanked but I wasn't abused.....there is a difference.

kelle wrote:

When my son took public tantrums, he'd actually run away screaming! That was the form he took, and it was scary if you were in a crowded shopping centre as he'd run out the door and possibly in front of a car if I just simply "ignored" him! I had no other choice except to grab him and carry him out of the place and straight home.

Wow that must have been scary. Well in fairness there is no way you could ignore him when he was doing that. I meant the throwing themselves to the ground kicking type of tantrums........maybe I should have specified. They can be such little terrors at times.....and know exactly where to throw a wobbler. I'm glad he has outgrown it though kelle.

I have seen some people who are very inconsistent with their kids though, and they are the kids that cause more problems than the ones whose parents are consistent in their discipline.