school fees

Rovi · 06-02-2007 06:42PM

julep wrote:

Is there actually a school called "Gonzaga", or is that a nickname or something?
WTF does it mean if there is one?

Here you go-
http://gonzaga.ie/home/

Named after St. Aloysius Gonzaga, apparently.

nesf · 06-02-2007 06:46PM

julep wrote:

Who are you calling "Jackeen"?
I'm from Kildare.

You are from the pale, that's close enough.

julep wrote:

Actually, we had 8 prefabs and they were all joined together. So there!

Damn you. I was stuck in this building built in the 30s where they though it was a 'good' idea to have 20 foot high celings and enormous windows, you know so heat loss was maximised. It toughned you up at winter, it followed the darwinian ideals of if you survived to 5th class then you were fit to join the gene pool....

Orizio · 06-02-2007 06:58PM

Sangre wrote:

They don't announce who the scholarship kids are.

Anyway, in all my years in a private school I never, ever heard someone being slagged for money or for being poor.

Same here.Two years spent in a fee paying school.

I would say that bullying was far more prominent in the Christian Brothers I went beforehand.The idea that all private schools are snobbish elitist schools seems to be gereral bull****.

kevmy · 06-02-2007 07:50PM

jimi_t wrote:

(this ensures that the best teachers aren't "poached" from public schools for better wages) whereas the upkeep, heating etc... of private schools is paid for by the fees received.

I paid for the upkeep of my old school even though it was a public school due to the lack of funding from the department. We paid about E150 for a single pupil it wasn't compulsory but it was expected if you could afford it. My sciene teacher was forced to buy equipment out of her own pocket due to underfunding. And this is only 5 years ago at the height of the Celtic Tiger.

jimi_t wrote:

I've seen the exact same from pupils of public schools - this is not a problem that can be attributed wholly or even for the most part to private schools. If you're going to blame anything, blame the exam system which encourages and nurtures and environment where privilege can be bought by way of grinds and grindschools - and make sure you understand the difference between a private school and somewhere like the Institute.

I do understand the difference but I've seen it with my own eyes as a demostrator in labs in college and it seems as if private school students don't spend as much time doing simple experiments even though they could afford the equipment a lot easier than public schools

jimi_t wrote:

Well why have you posted a rant on Irelands biggest public forum?

I don't maybe because the posts in the thread up until that point seemed to be from private schoolers talking about the poor disadvantaged people who had to go to public school as if they couldn't afford a proper education.

jimi_t wrote:

Certainly more money for public schools is necessary, and the whole elitism of certain schools makes me sick but if your child wants to go on to third level education and wants the best possible chance then CAO points are the be all and end all.

A lot of parents seem to ignore the wants of their children at the age of 12. Someone who is not suited for the points race and just wants 200 points to do a more practical course or wants to do a trade maybe better of if they didn't go to a private school. They would probably enjoy a public school education better as they would be doing woodwork, tech graph, etc instead of latin and classics.

jimi_t · 06-02-2007 10:11PM

kevmy wrote:

I paid for the upkeep of my old school even though it was a public school due to the lack of funding from the department. We paid about E150 for a single pupil it wasn't compulsory but it was expected if you could afford it.

Fees in Gonzaga are about 3,500 euro; probably the lowest for a private school in the country. This goes up as high as 10,000 in other private schools. I'm not talking about a voluntary contribution towards the cost of heating and the janitor, I'm talking about absolutely everything.

I do understand the difference but I've seen it with my own eyes as a demostrator in labs in college and it seems as if private school students don't spend as much time doing simple experiments even though they could afford the equipment a lot easier than public schools

The sad reality is that Science at third level, given its points, is a kind of last ditch effort to save face for many students who didn't make arts or higher - the drop out rate in UCD especially is appaling; I know about 15 people in the course and not one of them had any intention of doing it until faced with the harsh facts on results day. This isn't true of all students, but it's common enough to propose as a root cause.

...because the posts in the thread up until that point seemed to be from private schoolers talking about the poor disadvantaged people who had to go to public school as if they couldn't afford a proper education.

Where? I'm all for an objective and rationale debate of the issues, but this is drifting into personal territory.

A lot of parents seem to ignore the wants of their children at the age of 12.

And who can blame them? I didn't know what to do then and I still don't know what to do now that I'm in college - I can only look back and thank my parents for pushing me so as to attain the opportunities a third level education can give someone. It's not for everyone, granted, but

Someone who is not suited for the points race and just wants 200 points to do a more practical course or wants to do a trade maybe better of if they didn't go to a private school.

And inversely, do you not feel that someone who strives academically but is in a LCA or PLC orientated school deserves a chance regardless of their social standing or income? This is what is being argued here - not the sociological phenomenon whereby more and more irish students are pushed to go on to third level as a result of perceptions of education and expectations of status changing with the Celtic Tiger economy.

They would probably enjoy a public school education better as they would be doing woodwork, tech graph, etc instead of latin and classics.

I know plenty of private schools (located in south dublin if you want to be pedantic about it) that caters for the likes of woodwork, tech graphics et al. If you're referring specifically to Gonzaga, it is renowned as an academic school and which, until forced to abolish it by the department in the last decade, gave places based on a stringent entrance examination rather than other more...fiscal criteria :rolleyes:

thebaz · 07-02-2007 01:29AM

jimi_t wrote:

Fees in Gonzaga are about 3,500 euro; probably the lowest for a private school in the country. This goes up as high as 10,000 in other private schools. :

are you sure ? i thought it was one of the most expensive ones !

nesf · 07-02-2007 01:45AM

jimi_t wrote:

The sad reality is that Science at third level, given its points, is a kind of last ditch effort to save face for many students who didn't make arts or higher - the drop out rate in UCD especially is appaling; I know about 15 people in the course and not one of them had any intention of doing it until faced with the harsh facts on results day. This isn't true of all students, but it's common enough to propose as a root cause.

Some science courses may be like that but there are many that are quite different. Both in points requirements and standard of student. It all depends on what college you are talking about. To generalise about science in third level based on a few people you know doing it in UCD is just a tad silly.

JIZZLORD · 07-02-2007 02:07AM

i feel that it can often be true about science. I wanted science, but i had people saying that i could do something "better", even though not much beats an auld physics degree.
i notice it especially during labs, you get complete idiots as lab partners who shouldnt have been allowed into uni,
luckily nuig has a tower, and dad has a gun

nesf · 07-02-2007 02:34AM

JIZZLORD wrote:

i feel that it can often be true about science. I wanted science, but i had people saying that i could do something "better", even though not much beats an auld physics degree.
i notice it especially during labs, you get complete idiots as lab partners who shouldnt have been allowed into uni,
luckily nuig has a tower, and dad has a gun

Eh, when I was studying physics in UCC the last thing you could say was that any of the people in my class shouldn't have been in university. The standard, both expected and present, was very high and believe me with the way we were pushed you didn't survive first year if you weren't 'good'. My brother is presently doing genetics there and it's a similar situation there from all accounts.

JIZZLORD · 07-02-2007 03:27AM

i'm studying physics as part of a denominated course, but we're in with general science people too, and while first year weeded out alot of people there still a few who are useless. on several occassions i have done entire labs while my partners didnt do much apart from poking the aparatus a few times.

InFront · 07-02-2007 03:46AM

It's nothing to do with your leaving cert. I'm doing medicine and honestly, back when we were doing chemistry labs in our first (pre-med) year the aptitude of some students for simple calculations and practical work was really surprising. Many of them are very intelligent people, but just not practically orientated.
That's not a bad thing, there are many different ways of expressing intelligence. So I would guess that because the courses are structured so similiarly and are technically based, there are a lot of people doing science who wouldn't be the most mathematical or spatially intelligent of students.

A lot of it has to do with the out-dated method of assessing abilities in secondary schools here. You can get into science based courses on the back of a heap of languages and 'arts' subjects

nesf · 07-02-2007 05:05AM

InFront wrote:

So I would guess that because the courses are structured so similiarly and are technically based, there are a lot of people doing science who wouldn't be the most mathematical or spatially intelligent of students.

One of my lecturers once told me that good lab skills either seem in you or they are not. You might get past basic labs where science is an elective but if you either have a good head for it or you don't when it comes to the more advanced stuff. From chatting to people about it it seems to be the case, there seems to be a bit of a division between 'applied people' and 'theory people'. At least insofar as their interests go.

Victor · 07-02-2007 05:33AM

Sangre wrote:

If private schools didn't exist then the education budget would have to be a lot, lot bigger.

You mean rich people would be forced to understand what other people have to deal with! SHOCK! HORROR!

nesf · 07-02-2007 05:44AM

Victor wrote:

You mean rich people would be forced to understand what other people have to deal with! SHOCK! HORROR!

Personally I think of private schools as a means for parents to voluntarily unnecessarily seperate themselves from their money. Let them off tbh, I haven't seen or read a single good reason to pay 10k a year to send a child to school and the gap between private and public schools really isn't that big academically (if it exists at all tbh). Then I don't think of running tracks and pitches as good reasons, other's might disagree but I don't view sport as an integral part of schooling, that can be handled quite well outside of it.

07-02-2007 08:47AM

nesf wrote:

One of my lecturers once told me that good lab skills either seem in you or they are not. You might get past basic labs where science is an elective but if you either have a good head for it or you don't when it comes to the more advanced stuff. From chatting to people about it it seems to be the case, there seems to be a bit of a division between 'applied people' and 'theory people'. At least insofar as their interests go.

Yeah, I did thphys instead of exphys. I hated labs and was glad to drop 'em after first year.

melekalikimaka · 07-02-2007 11:03AM

nesf wrote:

Personally I think of private schools as a means for parents to voluntarily unnecessarily seperate themselves from their money. Let them off tbh, I haven't seen or read a single good reason to pay 10k a year to send a child to school and the gap between private and public schools really isn't that big academically (if it exists at all tbh). Then I don't think of running tracks and pitches as good reasons, other's might disagree but I don't view sport as an integral part of schooling, that can be handled quite well outside of it.

theres no denying private vs public, private does have the edge in general, i have been to both and i found that while public school was grand, the facilities and attention one receives in private schooling really helps, sure some students fall into the elitist camps, but i've seen that happen with people in public schooling too, some people invariably believe they are better than others.

As for sport, I think its very important to schooling, it creates a sense of pride and achievement that really makes you proud, teamwork and self determination are just as good lessons to learn as biology and geography

griffdaddy · 07-02-2007 11:08AM

What do people think of this perception that we live in a culture of 'the old school tie', and that idea that those who attend private schools end up networking and generally getting more breaks because of their contacts? So far the only advantage of the old school tie i can see is that when i go to the student bar i can either drink with people from blackrock (went there 1st-3rd year) or belvedere (4th-6th year):p

kevmy · 07-02-2007 11:12AM

bluewolf wrote:

Yeah, I did thphys instead of exphys. I hated labs and was glad to drop 'em after first year.

Opposite here had to do one semester of quantum physics and I absolutley hated it now doing a masters in a more applied area.

kevmy · 07-02-2007 11:15AM

griffdaddy wrote:

What do people think of this perception that we live in a culture of 'the old school tie', and that idea that those who attend private schools end up networking and generally getting more breaks because of their contacts? So far the only advantage of the old school tie i can see is that when i go to the student bar i can either drink with people from blackrock (went there 1st-3rd year) or belvedere (4th-6th year):p

I don't think thats as big here as in England due to the relatively small number of private schools. It's the GAA or Rugby or soccer here that will make you the contacts for later life.
Overall I not for the abolishtion of private schools it's just that I really don't see the point. If people want to send there kids there let them off I suppose I'll just never understand it.

melekalikimaka · 07-02-2007 11:15AM

griffdaddy wrote:

What do people think of this perception that we live in a culture of 'the old school tie', and that idea that those who attend private schools end up networking and generally getting more breaks because of their contacts? So far the only advantage of the old school tie i can see is that when i go to the student bar i can either drink with people from blackrock (went there 1st-3rd year) or belvedere (4th-6th year):p

its very much the case, last friday iwas drinking in blackrock, a guy came up to me and shook my hand and two of my friends(whom i went to school with), saying 'you probably wont remember me <inserts my name and my friends names> but i'm <insert name> and i was in first year when you were in sixth, we sat with him and drank til the early hours with his mates, an ol school reunion chat. six years above and eight below your almost expected to go over and converse with your 'friend'. Its nice, but i notice people from other schools do think its rather strange and don't understand it

Miss Fluff · 07-02-2007 12:23PM

swingking wrote:

IIn fact, most pupils of private schools, are bought up in rich backgrounds and therfore are not as used to the real world

You seem incredibly well balanced Swingking, a chip on both shoulders I guess?

I went to a boarding school in South County Dublin and I think this idea is great. And no, any kids less privilged than others were not picked on or singled out as far as I can see so I think it's a great idea. And anyone I went to school with are well-rounded decent people inhabiting a very real world. Not a virtual universe as Swingking so eloquently suggests.

school fees

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