Tip bar staff and publicans will reduce prices

monkeyfudge · 05-01-2007 03:22PM

I'd much rather pay more for a pint than have to put up with hassle of calculating tips for an evening. If a pub has poor service you simply should stop drinking there, there's no shortage of other pubs to go to in this country.

podge018 · 05-01-2007 03:40PM

There is no way tipping will catch on in Ireland, even if the price was reduced. Imagine pub regulars, lets say over 50 years of age, tipping you every pint. I don't think so. I'm a barman in the city centre and some days are so quiet you would be a long time earning a days wage relying on tips. Then when it's busy it's usually Yanks who must be briefed on the plane over that it's not necessary to tip, or Europeans who never tip the barstaff (they tip floor-staff allright). The Brits are the best tippers, by way of "have one yourself mate" at the first round, so that's €4 a night off them.

It's not in our make-up to tip bar staff so I can't see it happening.

justsomebloke · 05-01-2007 04:01PM

wrote:

The customer might pay "a bit more" overall.

If they are already saying that it is going to cost the consumer a bit more overall by the time they add on the tip to the cost of the pint then what is the point of it bar to help line the employers pocket. But as said the staff would have to be paid minimum wage anyway

Hagar · 05-01-2007 04:04PM

User45701 wrote:

Bar Staff = More Tips = WITHOUT TAX so they will actually end up with more money as long as people are willing to tip them everyone wins

That's not going to happen. The Taxman is not stupid. AFAIK they already factor in an amount for tips when calculating the tax liabilities for hairdressers as tipping is the norm. When money received from any source becomes a "norm" it becomes "income" for tax purposes. I'm open to correction on this but I am fairly sure.

projectmayhem · 05-01-2007 04:06PM

User45701 wrote:

here sorry im busy in work so if this was posted already im sorry.
This is a good thing is it not?

Pubs = pay staff cheeper
Customer = Cheaper prices
Bar Staff = More Tips = WITHOUT TAX so they will actually end up with more money as long as people are willing to tip them everyone wins

check america as to why that doesn't work. bar/restaurant workers get about $2/hr and rely on tips alone to supplement their wage. that pressure has forced two or three protest groups to try and get publicans and employers to pay minimum wage, and forget the tips idea.

mikedragon32 · 05-01-2007 04:30PM

As someone who worked in the bar trade for over 10 years, this idea is just wrong on so many levels.

There isn't a tipping culture in Irish pubs, at least not to the extent that one could rely on them for an income. What FitzGerald is suggesting is a massive shift in Irish social culture. It would be easier to change the flow of the Liffy.

Revenue would require barstaff in a situation where tipping is the norm to fill out a self declaration of income (possibly even a Form12).

FitzGerald himself admits that this proposal may cost the consumer more money. Is he trying to drive customers from his pubs. The publicans' organisations have been crying for ages that their business is suffering. One of the reasons for this is the cost of a night out. Do we really want to pay even more?

Lastly do you really want to hear a schmaltzy "Have a nice day" everytime you go to the bar?

Doodee · 05-01-2007 04:32PM

tom dunne wrote:

Yes, by focussing on what's in it for them, they know they can achieve this by ensuring you get good service.

Is it wrong to expect proper service?

How many times have you had a pint literally thrown at you in a pub in Ireland? Granted, there are decent barstaff out there, but there are also a percentage of tossers too. Ever had to return a pint? Nothing irritates me more than a returned pint put to the side, so some other poor gobsite can be served it later in the night.

I bet your the type who tips the gorgeous barmaid with the smile and hip shake but is too busy staring at her the next time to notice the polite barman givng you a decent pint.

This is such utter bull****, I've grown up in a Pub, worked in a busy temple bar one and also helped manage it I can can bring up and example of how ignorant the customers are based purely on what happened last night alone.
Guy is polite and nice and compliments my work, ethics and performance, tips me decent enough (roughly 3e by the end of the night which is very decent) however, as soon as the bar stopped serving at 2.30am the typical pleading and shock of why he cant get just one more comes into play. A just out of the washer Drip tray is placed below the taps upside down as is procedure and as soon as the back is turned a wad of Guinness is poured, By whom I wonder. 2 minutes later I turn around to find him trying to pour himself a drink. Im far from polite when someone takes the piss with me and im not a nice person when pissed off.

Another thing people seem to forget is that if the entire bar is lined up with customers 3 rows deep, Whistling and Calling and shouting and arm waving isn't appreciated, this especially goes for the whistling, we are not ****ing dogs being beckoned cause we are off sniffing another dogs arse. and theres no point saying clear and within ear shot "Ahhh, Four ****s sake, hes fooking terrible" when he/she is by themselves behind the bar. Thats managements fault not the bar staffs.

wither or not you people realize it, people (probably YOU) loose all manners, co-ordination and respect towards others when you have had a few jars, and to be quite honest if the bar staff are being rude to you then maybe you should start looking at yourself and not blame them, ever wonder why there are mirrors behind bars?

Bar work is tough, its not as easy as a lot of people think, especially if its a nightclub or busy city center bar. Theres a lot of pressure on bar staff to perform. And yes, there are ignorant and disrespectful barmen out there that don't deserve any tips or even a job, but quite often its the ones who are polite and know how Guinness should be served who get undue **** of the greater public.

I think that the tipping idea would benefit smaller pubs as well. 5 small family run hotels have closed down in Galway in the past 6 months due to lack of commerce and high staff wages, builders are getting tax benefits for making behemoth sized hotels and employing the fresh out of college "new age" managers with no experience on how the place should be run. As soon as these tax benefits are revoked they can close the hotels and just convert them into apartments and make even more money.
The smoking ban has caused massive problems with a lot of pubs down the country. some of them are down to a quarter profit on what they should be earning. and if you remember that inheritance is taxed as is all income and the only ROI is Vat relief you'd know the scales are highly unbalanced towards the smaller businesses.

Oh, and for those of you that are not in the know, the profit margin on pints is a hell of alot less than on spirits, so unless you own a pub that can hold a large quantity of Kegs and spend enough to get the brewery deals then it is actually a very generous offer to knock 20% off.
Yes, some Pub landlords will make a killing off of it, but like anything there are those who will get rich and those who will have life made easier.

My $0.02

rugbug86 · 05-01-2007 04:48PM

do we not just end up paying the same for drinks if we've to tip generously???

JoeSchmoe · 05-01-2007 04:55PM

I despise the tipping in the US, esp in the bars/nightclubs and "the barman might buy you a round if you tip well" culture.

I was in a club in Chicago, that were doing a special on Cocktails, Long Island Iced teas, two for 8 dollars, Got two drinks, gave the barman a ten, a 2 dollar tip, grand. Got back to the table and had a drink, the glass was basically filled with ice and had some coke (I'm not sure of the contents of a LIIT) filling the few gaps. One suck on the straw and the glass was empty.

My girlfriend, who had been in another part of the club, arrived with two more LIITs and they were the same, I went to the barman to complain and before I got to him he gave me an "another round" gesture and he had two drinks ready for by the time I reached him (obviously preprepared as it was a popular promotion)

I said the last two rounds were piss weak and he said "Don't worry buddy, these will make up for it" I took the drinks (paying for them though) back to the table, took a sip and nearly gagged, they were straight alcohol, no mixture, no "Cocktail"

SO basically the barman was testing us out, seeing if we tipped, if we did the next drink will have the alcohol missing from the last.

I was later talking to a barman friend of a friend and he said it was common practice and always give the barman a big tip 5-10 dollars at the start to ensure good service and "good" drinks throughtout the night.

If I pay for a drink I want the drink, service doesn't come into it but in the US, your tip gets you more than just good service and your lack of tips gets you a lot less than just a grumpy barman. That kind of thinking can stay in the states

05-01-2007 05:01PM

A long island iced tea is 5 shots with a dash of coke for colouring...
my experience was that it was extremely strong...

that does suck though. Let it stay in the states. I've hardly money to be paying people's wages for them.

Tazz T · 05-01-2007 05:10PM

Doodee wrote:

Another thing people seem to forget is that if the entire bar is lined up with customers 3 rows deep,

And there's a very good point. Why would anyone tip to queue 3 rows deep for twenty minutes for a pint. I'd rather stay at home.

I have no problem tipping if the drink is brought to my table. After all, isn't that 'service'.

The whole thing is ridiculous publican bull****. Reduce the price of a pint by 20%. We'll see 20c off if we're lucky and we'll be expected to tip a euro so as not to look mean and when it comes to the next annual hike on the pint, they'll say 10% is a small hike as we droppedit by 20% 6 months ago.

If he really wanted to drop the price of the pint he'd be happy to welcome a bit of real competition into the Irish market like JD Wetherspoon without going running to the Vintner's Association to moan about outsiders selling cut price Guinness.

05-01-2007 05:10PM

This post has been deleted.

Doodee · 05-01-2007 05:31PM

Tazz T wrote:

And there's a very good point. Why would anyone tip to queue 3 rows deep for twenty minutes for a pint. I'd rather stay at home.

I have no problem tipping if the drink is brought to my table. After all, isn't that 'service'.

Cause the bar person is doing their best to accommodate everyone.
They are behind the bar by themselves trying to do their job, but you can only see your own hindrance at having wait to get what you want. if yee all stayed at home then there would be no queues.

FlutterinBantam · 05-01-2007 05:41PM

The Scientist wrote:

people would only ride the system anyway... the Irish especially!
When i was J1-ing 2 yrs ago we used to go on rounds to save on tipping bar staff... You'd find yourself coming away from the bar with 4btls of bud light and 2 jack daniels and leaving $1 on the counter. Job!

You might have saved on tipping ,but if you checked the bar receipts they charge more in some places to serve more than one drink.So maybe you were not quite as smart as you thought you were.;)

po0k · 05-01-2007 05:43PM

Pesky kids, taking all the seats.

poobum · 05-01-2007 05:43PM

RuggieBear wrote:

don't most staff get minimum wage... how would he reduce costs if he still has to pay that anyway

the pines pub(templeogue/greenhills area) only pays its lounge staff 7 euro per hour, under min wage! even though they are all 18 or older! they apparently have some loophole!

Tazz T · 05-01-2007 05:58PM

Doodee wrote:

Cause the bar person is doing their best to accommodate everyone.
They are behind the bar by themselves trying to do their job, but you can only see your own hindrance at having wait to get what you want. if yee all stayed at home then there would be no queues.

Exactly my point.

connundrum · 05-01-2007 05:59PM

Doodee wrote:

Cause the bar person is doing their best to accommodate everyone.
They are behind the bar by themselves trying to do their job, but you can only see your own hindrance at having wait to get what you want. if yee all stayed at home then there would be no queues.

Having worked (by myself) at a bar where there were customers 3 rows deep at times, I would have died with shock had I got a tip! They weren't getting the service that they paid their entrance fee for (€10-€20)

I would never go into a bar where I had to wait for more than 5-6 minutes for a drink, as I would see it as pointless. And if I had to wait for more than that because the bar was so packed then yes, I would feel sorry for the poor barperson, but I wouldn't tip. It's scabby management that has bars understaffed, and by tipping I'd feel that I'm condoning this practice.

If I get a round of drinks 5-8 (served properly) in good time and by a friendly staff member then I will always tip, because I know from experience that it is hard to get everything right when under pressure. I won't tip mediocrity.

poobum wrote:

the pines pub(templeogue/greenhills area) only pays its lounge staff 7 euro per hour, under min wage! even though they are all 18 or older! they apparently have some loophole!

Its called the illegal loophole

poobum · 05-01-2007 06:02PM

yep! but thats what they put up with! and its realy bad!

Flukey · 05-01-2007 06:20PM

When it comes to tipping, it usually the people who can best afford it that are least likely to do it and vice versa. Ask anyone who is in a job that gets tips and they'll tell you that.

monkeyfudge · 05-01-2007 07:21PM

poobum wrote:

the pines pub(templeogue/greenhills area) only pays its lounge staff 7 euro per hour, under min wage! even though they are all 18 or older! they apparently have some loophole!

I think you need to be an experienced worker in order to qualify for the minimum wage. Which means 2 years experience in any workplace.

tallaght01 · 05-01-2007 07:46PM

why do some jobs get tips, whereas others don't? I know it's an old chesnut, but I've never heard an answer that's really convinced me.

Fanny Cradock · 05-01-2007 08:05PM

So let me get this straight... on a typical night out you will have to pay some or all of the following:

*€10 - €20 to get into a club or gig;

*Another 2 euro if you want your coat to be placed in the cloak room (to be rifled through, no doubt);

*Feel guilted into paying the guy in the toilets for taking a piss;

*Pay approximately €5 per pint (Note: I'm not factoring in the unnecessary post midnight price hike some places are fond of);

*Then pay a tip every time you order a funny tasting pint.

The comparisons with other industries where tipping is common place are not valid. Why? Well, for instance, in a restaurant you only tip once, not every time they bring out a course. Pulling a pint is not the same as waiting on a table.

Ridiculous.

When the bar is 4 people deep and the staff are rushed off their feet I hardly think they have time for civility - tip or no tip. Besides, you shouldn't have to pay for good manners, it should be part of the job description.

He is using some flimsy excuse to make more money. I work in the drinks industry and, generally speaking, the profits publicans make are VERY healthy. I think back to the claim from the vintners association that 60,000 people would lose their jobs when the smoking ban came into effect. The lesson: take everything these people say with a pinch of salt.

Gordon · 05-01-2007 08:15PM

No, this system goes thusly:

*€10 - €20 to get into a club or gig;
*Another 2 euro if you want your coat to be placed in the cloak room (to be rifled through, no doubt);
*Feel guilted into paying the guy in the toilets for taking a piss;
*Pay approximately €4.00 per pint (presuming pints are usually 5 euro);
*Then pay a tip every time you order a funny tasting pint.

05-01-2007 09:48PM

Just to put my 2 cents in.My father owns a pub in Leitrim.Random breath testing has killed tade in my area.You are only on to a winner in a pub if you live in a large town or city.

Monday to Thursday.My father works midday to 11:30 pm.Then works Friday midday to 7pm.Also will have to do a shift at the weekend if somebody is sick.The hours can be very lonely.Especially in January.Do you feel 3.50 for a pint of Guinness and 3.90 for a pint of Heineken,Carlbergs,Bud is overly expensive?The profit that my father makes on pint of bud is about a 1.30.Out of this he has to pay sky,esb bills,imro(muppets),staff.

He may turn over a lot but the amont left after taxes he takes home in a year is negligible.

Steak · 05-01-2007 09:58PM

Flukey wrote:

When it comes to tipping, it usually the people who can best afford it that are least likely to do it and vice versa. Ask anyone who is in a job that gets tips and they'll tell you that.

extremely true!

Lump · 06-01-2007 03:18AM

I was going to write a long reply, but decided to settle on..... ME BOLLOX

Package · 06-01-2007 06:48AM

yeah your right there. if i have the choice between a polite customer or a **** that tips,. ill go for the polite one all the time.

youll find that generally, barstaff are ignorant twats, at the top, and at the bottom, its the in between thats you find the decent staff. old barstaff are just set in their ways. young bar staff have generally not done the proper training. its the ones among us who have gone through "the Ranks" and worked their way up, that have a decent attitude towards work, and the public.

as a thing i always tip, on every round when i go out, as most "decent" bar staff do, and when in busy bars,, youll find you get served a hell of a lot quicker.

8thor2nd? · 06-01-2007 07:33AM

I think you need to compare the type of people that work in Bars in the USA and the type of people that work in pubs in Ireland. Then you need to look at the type of people that drink in bars in the USA and the type of people that drink in Pubs.

For example, go to a Dublin night clubey type pub (Hogans, Capitol, Q-bar), the staff, except for a couple are fairly casual. May not be career workers. May or may not be paid much more than a 10er an hour. But look at the people drinking there, younger people, greater % of females. You might argue the student and young person market might tip less (less dispoable income). But if you're going to the bar with the intention of getting **** faced and are buying 5 shots of this, 2 bottles of that, you will be inclined to tip more! (having shots at the bar, tip to get better shots, cocktails). These people may go to this pub once a week/month.

Ok, now let's compare to suburban pub or country pub in ireland . Lots of career staff. Plenty of floor staff (no serving floor staff in above examples). The clientiel are probably regulars, local people who drink more than twice a week in said pub. Each visit buying 3 - 6+ drinks per night. How would these be expected to tip? 50c on the the pint? A few bob at the end of night? In terms of tipping, the bar staff doesn't really mind if he sells 10 drinks at a time and gets 1 euro tip or 1 drink at a time and a 1 euro tip (well other than there's an effort to get more drinks in a large round).

I actually seem to have lost the run of my argument (point) here, I'm exhausted to be honest. I just think when you comparing tipping etiquette here and in the US you need to understand you're often not coparing like with like. A group of 30 year old yuppies in New York may tip the cute barperson 10 bucks on a round of cocktails, but how will the 65 year old 4 pints of guinness a day creature going to tip?

blahhh · 06-01-2007 04:34PM

Jimoslimos...ditto to you

I work in a bar. Minimum wage and a few tips....very few. But I'd prefer that than a lower wage and more tips. I don't see Irish consumers really warming to the idea of tips anyway... although I did get 7e tip last night....from an Irish....woman! Rare....very rare.

So yeah, don't like the idea and don't see it working

Tip bar staff and publicans will reduce prices

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