Tip bar staff and publicans will reduce prices

Tom Dunne · 05-01-2007 01:14PM #1

According to the Indo this morning (linky) Louis Fitzgerald has said that if customers tip his staff, he will reduce the price of drink by up to 20%.

A LEADING publican has offered to drop the price of his pint by 20pc in return for a new tipping-based method of paying bar staff.
Louis Fitzgerald, who owns a string of high-profile pubs in Dublin and elsewhere, said he believed it was only a matter of time before tips, coupled with a small wage, became an accepted way of paying bar staff. He admitted his group would reduce its wage bill under a tipping-based payment system but said this would be matched by a reduction drink prices. The customer might pay "a bit more" overall.
"If there was a serious tipping culture, and bar staff were to accept the tips and the wages, I would gladly take 20pc off the price of a pint."
But the Mandate union, which represents more than 3,000 bar staff in the Greater Dublin area, disagreed strongly with Mr Fitzgerald's proposal.

So, what do you think? Could it work here?

Personally, I would be on for it. Too many times I have had to beg for a drink from a barperson only to be greeted with indifference and an attitude.

Do you think this would incentivise bar staff to be polite and courteous?

Mr E · 05-01-2007 01:18PM

Rich publicans get richer by paying their staff less.
Staff rely on unguaranteed tips to make ends meet.

Good for publicans, bad for staff.

RuggieBear · 05-01-2007 01:20PM

don't most staff get minimum wage... how would he reduce costs if he still has to pay that anyway

Sleepy · 05-01-2007 01:20PM

Good for Publicans
Good for bar staff
Awful for consumers.

Hagar · 05-01-2007 01:21PM

A LEADING publican has offered to drop the price of his pint by 20pc ... "If there was a serious tipping culture, and bar staff were to accept the tips and the wages, I would gladly take 20pc off the price of a pint."

I don't believe that prices would fall by anything like 20%.
It would be more inclined to think that "20pc" is a misprint for "20c".

Tom Dunne · 05-01-2007 01:22PM

Let's face it, the publicans are on to a winner, no matter what.

Would it improve things for both customers and staff though? I'd like to think it would.

Staff have an incentive to be ultra-nice, and accordingly can make more money. Customers probably end up paying the same, but get better service.

Mitzy · 05-01-2007 01:24PM

Either way the consumer will be paying the same price - the drink may be slightly cheaper but we'll have to pay the difference in tips. Not much of a benefit!

stovelid · 05-01-2007 01:28PM

Please.

This is typical greedy publican sh*t.

It's not that i begrudge staff a tip in theory but I begrudge some cnut trying to offload the cost of paying his staff on to me.

My friend worked in a bar in NYC for ages. He got a very small basic wage and lived on his (admittedly good) tips.

Outcome:

Bar owner makes big profit, saves on staff wages.

Bar staff need tips to make a living

Consumer gets treated like a leper (ignored at the bar!) if they don't tip

tom dunne wrote:

According to the Indo this morning (linky) Louis Fitzgerald has said that if customers tip his staff, he will reduce the price of drink by up to 20%.

So, what do you think? Could it work here?

Personally, I would be on for it. Too many times I have had to beg for a drink from a barperson only to be greeted with indifference and an attitude.

Do you think this would incentivise bar staff to be polite and courteous?

Gone West · 05-01-2007 01:29PM

RuggieBear wrote:

don't most staff get minimum wage... how would he reduce costs if he still has to pay that anyway

Like the US, they could take the tips into account when calculating what the staff actually earn.

Its usually an average tip for the week, or an "expected gratuity earnings" type bullshít.

Gordon · 05-01-2007 01:31PM

Hagar wrote:

I don't believe that prices would fall by anything like 20%.
It would be more inclined to think that "20pc" is a misprint for "20c".

I was wondering that too.

Would it really improve the quality of service though? Surely it would just force consumers to pay a tip hence the barstaff wouldn't feel that they would have to be especially good/nice as the tip is expected.

How does it work in America? It works the same there right? /edit missed stovelids post

Also, how would the taxman feel about this?

Malice · 05-01-2007 01:34PM

TmB wrote:

Rich publicans get richer by paying their staff less.
Staff rely on unguaranteed tips to make ends meet.

Good for publicans, bad for staff.

I think this sums it up perfectly. I wouldn't rely on the publicans to reduce prices by anything like 20 percent if the idea took off.

It's customary to tip bar staff in the USA isn't it so maybe the powers that be are trying to bring that idea in?

Dr_Teeth · 05-01-2007 01:36PM

What's in it for us? We'd pay slightly less for drink *in theory* (there's no way publicans would reduce the cost, just like they didn't when VAT went down to 20%) but we'd have to tip bar staff or get treated like crap, as it is in the US. We'd be worse off tbh.

Tom Dunne · 05-01-2007 01:36PM

Gordon wrote:

I was wondering that too.

Would it really improve the quality of service though? Surely it would just force consumers to pay a tip hence the barstaff wouldn't feel that they would have to be especially good/nice as the tip is expected.

How does it work in America? It works the same there right?

But consumers wouldn't tip if barstaff weren't nice. In America, tipping is expected, but so is service. If service is poor, reduce the tip accordingly.

stovelid · 05-01-2007 01:41PM

Not sure what the overall picture is there. That was my mates experience anyway.

I just can't help feeling that the drop in drink prices would not be equivalent to the wage savings publicans could make from a tipping culture.

The aim of Fitzgerald's gesture is just to include tips in staff wages.

AA Gill is always fuming about a similar thing in the UK. Mandatory service charges in some restaurants being used to pay staff wages and not as an additional gratuity (as believed by most customers).

Gordon wrote:

I was wondering that too.

Would it really improve the quality of service though? Surely it would just force consumers to pay a tip hence the barstaff wouldn't feel that they would have to be especially good/nice as the tip is expected.

How does it work in America? It works the same there right? /edit missed stovelids post

Also, how would the taxman feel about this?

scojones · 05-01-2007 01:42PM

If bar staff were getting paid 2 euro an hour, and it was 2.50 for a pint then i would tip, otherwise... no chance.

seamus · 05-01-2007 01:44PM

Publicans can't legally pay anything less than the minimum wage, regardless of tips. And since most of them don't even pay minimum wage, I fail to see how tipping their staff will allow them to pay any less.

Most pubs in Dublin barely have enough staff as it is, so their wage bill can't be huge.

Let's see;

Barman paid €12/hour (very generous)
Barman serves avg of 2 pints every 3 minutes, at €4.50 per pint. (average throughout the whole day - busy times = more pints)
Barman serves 40 pints in an hour, total revenue €180
Pub takes 40% profit margin = €72/hour
Pay barman - €60/hour.
Pub with three barman, and open for 12 hours per day = €2,160 per day.

Pub open 363 days per year = Operating revenues of €785,000

Looks like fine maths to me. Heat, light, electricity and insurance can't be anything approaching 30% of that amount.

stovelid · 05-01-2007 01:45PM

not attacking you TD but last time I was in NYC, the tipping culture is so aggressive (ignored in one bar because the tip wasn't high enough, doorman saying "oh a dollar, how nice" sarcastically) that you usually do tip for a quiet life.

Maybe I'm just a wimp or went to the wrong places

tom dunne wrote:

But consumers wouldn't tip if barstaff weren't nice. In America, tipping is expected, but so is service. If service is poor, reduce the tip accordingly.

simu · 05-01-2007 01:49PM

Don't like the idea of small wage plus uncertain tips for staff. Atm, I find most Irish bar staff are good enough and certainly wouldn't like to have to put up with all the fawning for tips you get in the USA.

Mossy Monk · 05-01-2007 01:54PM

what's this?

a publican thinking of others

LOL

Jimoslimos · 05-01-2007 01:59PM

I used to work as a barman and TBH I don't like the idea. An excuse for publicans to pay their staff even less. Wages aren't great but they're nowhere as bad as they are in the states. Also what about other workers, floor staff, doormen, etc., they contribute to the level of "service" as much as barstaff - how will they benefit?

Anyhow I much preferred my customers to be polite rather than tipping me to get better service

Tom Dunne · 05-01-2007 02:07PM

stovelid wrote:

not attacking you TD but last time I was in NYC, the tipping culture is so aggressive (ignored in one bar because the tip wasn't high enough, doorman saying "oh a dollar, how nice" sarcastically) that you usually do tip for a quiet life.

Maybe I'm just a wimp or went to the wrong places

Actually, that is a very valid point. I have been all over the US and it's nothing like it is in New York. They are a hell of a lot more civil regarding tips everywhere else.

It would be an interesting experiment if the Fitzgerald group decided to drop their prices in their establishments, drop wages and see what happens. I really would like to think it would mean more money for the barstaff and better service for customers.

free2fly · 05-01-2007 02:20PM

Here waitstaff are paid very low base wages and rely on their tips to survive. Bartenders are paid a higher wage and usually receive 10% of the waitstaff's total tips for the night as well. Bouncers and other staff are paid a higher wage to compensate for the lack of tips. Tipping does tend to encourage better service. However, having worked as a bartender and bar manager, I know for a fact that it does not lower the price of drinks.

b3t4 · 05-01-2007 02:39PM

I HATED the tipping culture when I was in America. All I kept thinking was how fake all the service people were. They were purely concerned about what tip I was giving them rather than anything else.

At least I know that if someone treats me well in the service industry in Ireland they are actually nice people and not out for what they can get. I also like the fact that they are paid a sight better than a lot of the people in the service industry in America.

Can this country please stop trying to be America?!?

A.

Flukey · 05-01-2007 02:41PM

Tip bar staff and publicans will reduce prices

Yeah, and your drinks will be brought to your table by a flying pig!:rolleyes:

Tom Dunne · 05-01-2007 02:50PM

b3t4 wrote:

They were purely concerned about what tip I was giving them rather than anything else.

Yes, by focussing on what's in it for them, they know they can achieve this by ensuring you get good service.

b3t4 wrote:

Can this country please stop trying to be America?!?

Is it wrong to expect proper service?

How many times have you had a pint literally thrown at you in a pub in Ireland? Granted, there are decent barstaff out there, but there are also a percentage of tossers too. Ever had to return a pint? Nothing irritates me more than a returned pint put to the side, so some other poor gobsite can be served it later in the night.

Degsy · 05-01-2007 02:52PM

stovelid wrote:

Please.

This is typical greedy publican sh*t.

It's not that i begrudge staff a tip in theory but I begrudge some cnut trying to offload the cost of paying his staff on to me.

My friend worked in a bar in NYC for ages. He got a very small basic wage and lived on his (admittedly good) tips.

Outcome:

Bar owner makes big profit, saves on staff wages.

Bar staff need tips to make a living

Consumer gets treated like a leper (ignored at the bar!) if they don't tip

Amen to that.
Multimillionaires trying to save money by getting the customer to pay his staff's wages,its a f ucking disgrace.Who's getting all the profit on the pint anyway?He could HALF the price of the pint and still make a good wage if he didnt have to pay staff.greedy bastards.

Mossy Monk · 05-01-2007 02:54PM

tom dunne wrote:

Is it wrong to expect proper service?

no but niceness turned up to the max just for more tips would annoy the hell out of me

Flukey · 05-01-2007 03:06PM

People are being paid to do a job. They should not have to be paid more to be politer or to provide a better service. They should be doing that anyway. That is not the real issue here.

As it has been said, it is the publicans saying this, wanting the customer to pay their staff part of their earnings. It is a cop out by them. It is a publican that has raised this, not bar staff. If they provide a good service a lot of people will tip them anyway, but their employers should be paying them a proper wage, not expecting the customer to do so. When we buy something in the pub, we are paying their wage anyhow. It should be down to a customer to choose to tip or not and it should be down to the publican as to how they pay their staff.

So keep the focus in this thread on the publican copping out, not staff looking for tips. As the way this thread has gone proves, the publicans are putting the focus away from themselves and on to their staff. Don't fall in that trap, as you seem to be doing. So focus on the employer cop-out. Even if we do start tipping more, do you really think they will drop the price of a pint? They might reduce the wages they are paying, but you can be sure the price of the pint won't go down. It is all a ruse by publicans.

stovelid · 05-01-2007 03:09PM

also the knowledge that your tip is not an appreciative contract between you and considerate staff......

I want my tips to augment a low wage not to make them up.

Mossy Monk wrote:

no but niceness turned up to the max just for more tips would annoy the hell out of me

User45701 · 05-01-2007 03:14PM

here sorry im busy in work so if this was posted already im sorry.
This is a good thing is it not?

Pubs = pay staff cheeper
Customer = Cheaper prices
Bar Staff = More Tips = WITHOUT TAX so they will actually end up with more money as long as people are willing to tip them everyone wins

The_B_Man · 05-01-2007 03:22PM

NO, bad idea! Very bad idea! We dont need another thing to worry about. We should jsut keep it the way it is now.

Go to the bar. Order a pint. Get me pint. Pay for it. Drink it. Maybe complain about the price. Whatever.

Tip bar staff and publicans will reduce prices

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