I ruined Christmas.

Botswana · 25-12-2006 10:58PM

I'm sorry, but there are no excuses when it comes to lashing out at children. In my opinion, you'd have to be sick to want to slam a 7 year old against the wall, call him a ****er, and tell him there's no Santa.

If I was the OP, I'd be horrified by my behavior and would be trying to find out why I thought it was somehow acceptable to attack a child.

FranknFurter · 25-12-2006 11:11PM

Thaedydal wrote:

Children are not prefect they have to be taught to walk and talk and how to behave and it can be trying but you don't throw wobbilies at them and slam them into walls, esp when they are not your children there are other ways.

Totally agree, and I cant help but wonder if your problem was *really* with your brothers parenting skills as you see them rather than a kid mis-behaving on xmas morning.
What YOU did was a lot more immature and dis-respectful to your brother than anything his 7 year old child could ever do to him.
What you did was not educate him about wrong / right, what you did was to physically and verbally abuse a 7 year old. Not to mention ruining what should be a nice day for his five year old sister. (What you see as ruining a nice day, ie: him being a pain in the ass, to his sister may be "a "normal" day but nicer because its xmas").

If you have a problem with a 7 year old, you discuss the problem with his parents, they after all, are who you are frustrated with for allowing him to be that way.
Everyone knows a 7 year old is a product of their enviroment and NOT yet independently assessing situations in an adult manner. If you think otherwise you have unrealistic expectations.

Ask your mother how *you* behaved when *you* were 7. You may be surprised by her answer!

B

~Rebel~ · 25-12-2006 11:11PM

OP, it was a bad reaction, we all know it, saying it to the child that his dad had worked very hard and that the child was making him sad would have probably been enough from an uncle's role, together with some disapproving looks at the childs attempts for attention.

Whatever about the boy, if you have a decent relationshp with the little girl, maybe it might be a good idea to mention to their parents that you could take her to one side and tell her you were upset by how her brother was treating your brother and said something mean, just like he had to his father, and that you were sorry she heard and it wasn't true.

The parents might want to leave it as is, but it would be a shame for the little girl to miss out because of her brothers misbeheaviour.

Beau x1 · 25-12-2006 11:23PM

Well, I doubt he'll be acting like that when he gets an unwanted present again.

Nevyn · 25-12-2006 11:42PM

That does not make it right.

Beau x1 · 25-12-2006 11:54PM

Thaedydal wrote:

That does not make it right.

I didn't say it does. I'm just trying to show the good that came from it.

Cooee · 25-12-2006 11:59PM

Sorry - but it's a CHILD of 7 years, regardless of how annoying they are what you did was unforgivable. It was a CHILD - you cannot apply adult logic or adult manners or use adult language to try to get a CHILD to see the world the way an adult does.
Kids can be awful, hurtful, ungrateful wretches - but it was the fathers place to admonish the child and define boundries for their behaviour.

Telling a child of that age to "cop on" or "behave" does just not work.

Botswana · 26-12-2006 12:10AM

Cooee wrote:

Sorry - but it's a CHILD of 7 years, regardless of how annoying they are what you did was unforgivable. It was a CHILD - you cannot apply adult logic or adult manners or use adult language to try to get a CHILD to see the world the way an adult does.
Kids can be awful, hurtful, ungrateful wretches - but it was the fathers place to admonish the child and define boundries for their behaviour.

Telling a child of that age to "cop on" or "behave" does just not work.

I agree. I think (hope) most of the posts here are from teenagers/not parents.

It's funny that there is no enforced parenting course. You know, you do not hit children, etc.

Nevyn · 26-12-2006 12:12AM

Parenting course are a lot more then just that.

FranknFurter · 26-12-2006 12:20AM

Botswana wrote:

I agree. I think (hope) most of the posts here are from teenagers/not parents.

Unfortunately and very very sadly, this may not be the case.
The area in which I live, there are many teenagers who *are* also parents, and many parents who *behave* like teenagers.

On a daily basis, just going to the local shop, I see kids being slapped (often hard imo), having their arms and shoulders almost wrenched out of their shoulders by "mammy or daddy" grabbing them to steer them towards the isle containing the bottles of special brew and beer, and / or being yelled screamed at or being publicly humiliated by said "parents".

*sigh

Then I wonder why these kids grow up to be the kids who, from the age of 10+, break my windows with rocks and make me and my partner afraid to leave the house alone. I must be stupid.

B

Catari Jaguar · 26-12-2006 12:53AM

Jayziz, goin on about views, move this thread to humanities yea?

The parents of the kid don't mind what happened so stop goin on about what you think cos you have kids and are biased.

Botswana · 26-12-2006 12:53AM

Botswana wrote:

It's funny that there is no enforced parenting course. You know, you do not hit children, etc.

Thaedydal wrote:

Parenting course are a lot more then just that.

Botswana wrote:

It's funny that there is no enforced parenting course. You know, you do not hit children, etc.

See here

^

Dyr · 26-12-2006 12:56AM

Cooee wrote:

It was a CHILD - you cannot apply adult logic or adult manners or use adult language to try to get a CHILD to see the world the way an adult does.

Which is why sitting down and having a quiet word with little timmy about unacceptable behavour is nonsense imo. Children are not adults, treating them as mini adults wont do them any favours

OP i used to have a similar problem with my sisters kids at christmas, though they were a bit older. they used to walk all over her because she was too laid back (and they saw their father doing the same) and generally had no respect for her, when they'd scream at her while visiting me they were told in no uncertain terms what would happen if they didnt treat my sister with more respect in my house. I actually kicked the little darlings out on one occasion. Now that theyre grown up we get along real well though, no lasting damage :eek:

They might not be your kids but you don't have to tolerate their behaviour when they're disfunctioning in front of you. Well not in your own home anyway

mukki · 26-12-2006 02:37AM

why did the kid's parents buy him a present??

christmas morning you wake up- santy has been, and you play with whatever crap santy got you, until i breaks at about 11am

so again... why did they give the kid a present on christmas day???

maybe they was worried their kid would like santy more then them

I'm just gonna to stop now before i post a insult of your brother and his gf

killeoin · 26-12-2006 03:08AM

For me, all my happiest childhood memorys seem to revolve around the magic of Christmas Eve and the whole excitment about Santa (cornflakes ad anyone?:)) The magic never really came again until Santa started coming to my own kids. These are my most treasured memorys. To deny a child (& the parents) those memorys under any circumstances is just plain evil in my book. How dare you?

InFront · 26-12-2006 04:56AM

Bambi wrote:

OP i used to have a similar problem with my sisters kids at christmas, though they were a bit older. they used to walk all over her because she was too laid back (and they saw their father doing the same) and generally had no respect for her, when they'd scream at her while visiting me they were told in no uncertain terms what would happen if they didnt treat my sister with more respect in my house. I actually kicked the little darlings out on one occasion. Now that theyre grown up we get along real well though, no lasting damage :eek:

Most people are all for the idea of the extended family having a role in raising children. I have no doubt that mine, and most of all of our grandmothers, aunties, cousins and various other elders spanked and told off the various infant population in their immediate vicinity at some stage or other. In my opinion, that's pretty harmless, it's a part of family life.

But if the op's description of what happened is in anyway accurate: he went too far. He lost it: he actually 'hit' the child, and told him and his siter about Santa Claus. OP, while it's well within your rights (rights?) as a brother and an uncle to have a word with the parents, and tell the kid off, you should be apologizing to your brother for such uncontrolled behaviour, and for such anger and bitterness in front of his children. What kind of uncle grabs a seven year old by the collar and shoves him against the wall? I dunno, I can't help but feel (or hope) that you may be exaggerating through guilt, OP.

Ickle Magoo · 26-12-2006 09:29AM

Scrooge. wrote:

I went over to my brother and his girlfriends house for Christmas morning. His nippers were up and about, excited about Christmas morning. Their 7 year old boy, a right cheecky brat, opened his presents. He was happy about his present from "Santy" but said he didn't like the present his parents got him, saying it was "crap".

I let it slip. But later on, he started sulking and pulling faces because he wasn't happy about the gift "Dad" bought him. I looked at the hurt look on my Brother's face and I nearly just lost it.

"Look" I said, "James worked very hard for that present so you better start being more respectful". He again started pulling faces and repeated my words in a sarcastic voice. I let it go.

But when he started flinging the gift "Dad" got him out the window because it was "crap" and "useless", i just totally flipped. I caught him by the collar of his pjs and shoved him into the wall.

"Look you little ****er, your DAD worked hard for those presents, he bought every single one of them, there is no Santa. You better start behaving or I'll throw you straight out that window along with that book your Father worked hard for"

Needless to say he started balling crying, as did his 5-year-old sister. I looked at my brother and just shook my head. I sat down for 15 minutes with my brother and we tried to pretend like nothing happened, while my brother's girlfriend tried to comfort the balling kids. Then I just apologised and left.

I really don't know what to think now. I know the way I dealt with it was totally wrong. But the kid was just behaving in such a nasty way, he needed to be put in his place by an adult. I just wish I could have dealt with him in a more civilised manner.

OP,

It's irrellevant how bratty your nephew was being at Christmas - it is not your place to discipline & certainly not your place to use any kind of physical force. If you did that to my kids, in my home - you'd be out on your ear permanently - after I'd thrown YOU against a wall!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Regardless of how lax your brothers parenting is or how snotty you view their kids you have absolutely no right to say or do anything to those kids without the express permission of their parents. The kid sounds very snotty indeed but that doesn't give you the right to assume the role of parent & use physical force against someone elses child - you were bang out of order.

I think you should appologise profusely to your brother, your sister-in-law & your nephew - if they ever want to see you again. By all mean suggest a parenting course but if someone who screamed at my kids there was no Santa before slamming them off a wall tried to infer I lacked the necessary skills to bring up children, frankly, I'd laugh in their face.

Anti · 26-12-2006 12:24PM

Your brohter needs to impose some boundries onto that little devil child. I would have done the exact same thing. Little bollix deserved it, maybe not being pinned against a wall though. But a good yelling at.

Next xmas buy the little sh1t some coal.

TempestSabre · 26-12-2006 12:50PM

Some of the posts here are priceless. Teach a kid not to be a thug, by shouting, hitting and generally acting exactly like one.

mr_angry · 26-12-2006 12:56PM

IMO, we live in the real world, surrounded by a lot of different people and influences. To say that parents are the only people capable of disciplining children is, I think, unrealistic, and contributing to the idea that kids can get away with whatever they like, including intimidating other people. I'd say that its an important learning experience for any child to realise that people have limits, and will totally lose it if pushed far enough.

zAbbo · 26-12-2006 01:04PM

What book was it ?

TempestSabre · 26-12-2006 01:29PM

This thread has nothing to do with if you are a parent or not, (maturity maybe) or what you've seen etc. You can't change a child's behaviour overnight, you need to train them, condition them if you like. Into acceptable patterns of social behaviour. So its something that's done slowly overtime, and reinforced over and over by the same consistent messages.

The problem here is that the parent are too lax. You should be pointing that out to the parents not the child. Its not the childs fault. As they say "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree".

King of Kings · 26-12-2006 02:27PM

Botswana wrote:

I agree. I think (hope) most of the posts here are from teenagers/not parents.

It's funny that there is no enforced parenting course. You know, you do not hit children, etc.

really?
as a father of a 4 year old I reserve the right to rear him as I see fit - not what any course or clod on the internet tells me.

furthermore i was raised with a few belts and i must say it never did me much harm.
how many kids do you have?

in the OP's case - i doubt this behaviour from the child was a once off. the parents are probably accepting this behaviour a lot and thus he feels he can get away with it. he bigger issue lies with the parents (your bro). perhaps your bro will sit up and take stock now and maybe some god may come of this and if so maybe it was worth ruining christmas.

Fanny Cradock · 26-12-2006 04:02PM

This was always going to boil down to an argument between those who believe physical discipline has its merits and those who think it's absolutely wrong.

The times I was physically punished as a child didn't emotionally scar me. In fact, I was taught a valuable lesson. Although the magnitude of his (re)action was wrong, the kid will get over it. Maybe the OP needs to address some anger issues. Maybe not. Is this out of the ordinary for you??

It really sounds if the parents are completely out of their depth and have no control over the child. After an apology to your bro and his GF why not broach the idea of a parenting course. The most important thing to do here is to raise the child not to be a future asshole. There's too many of them around the place anyway

InFront · 26-12-2006 04:25PM

Fanny Cradock wrote:

This was always going to boil down to an argument between those who believe physical discipline has its merits and those who think it's absolutely wrong.

No it wasn't. Many of us were spanked as children, I was, and in hindsight, I'm glad I was or who know how I might have turned out. I don't believe spanking is necessary, but for some parents, mine included, it was the best way for them and the most effective for the individual child. I intend to spank my children when I have them, I think it is a reasonable choice.

This is about a completely other issue - an uncle coming into the home on Christmas day, grabbing a bold child by the collar, shoving him against a wall and telling him and his sister the truth about Santa Clause (presumably a tradition the parents had wanted to keep). That isn't merely about 'spanking' or physical discipline in the home, it's actually about violence and loss of control in front of two young children.

Fanny Cradock · 26-12-2006 04:45PM

InFront wrote:

No it wasn't. Many of us were spanked as children, I was, and in hindsight, I'm glad I was or who know how I might have turned out. I don't believe spanking is necessary, but for some parents, mine included, it was the best way for them and the most effective for the individual child. I intend to spank my children when I have them, I think it is a reasonable choice.

This is about a completely other issue - an uncle coming into the home on Christmas day, grabbing a bold child by the collar, shoving him against a wall and telling him and his sister the truth about Santa Clause (presumably a tradition the parents had wanted to keep). That isn't merely about 'spanking' or physical discipline in the home, it's actually about violence and loss of control in front of two young children.

I disagree.

After this unfortunate incident is in the distant past, I believe the the real issue will be how the parents respond to their child's upbringing - including disciplining him.

miamee · 26-12-2006 05:26PM

Playboy wrote:

Tbh OP you were way over the top. The reason the child is behaving badly has more to do with the parents than the child. A child doesnt spoil himself .. his parents spoil him! It is not your place to discipline your brothers kids. And I'm sorry but those kids were much too young to find out that Santa doesnt exist .. that was a really lame thing to do that is going to have an impact on them for the next few years and maybe on their friends depending on who they tell! I'd be ringing to apologize!

I agree wholeheartedly with this, children are only whatever way their parents have taught them to be. Disciplining your brother's children is up to your brother & his partner, no one else. If you disagreed with the kids behaviour then you should have said something to your brother instead of going above his & their mothers head to discipline him 'your' way. Losing the head with a child like that is completely unacceptable regardless of what was done/said.

If I was you I'd be doing my damndest to make it up to my brother because personally I think it's going to take an awful lot to get things back to 'normal' there.

Ickle Magoo · 26-12-2006 05:27PM

Fanny Cradock wrote:

I disagree.

After this unfortunate incident is in the distant past, I believe the the real issue will be how the parents respond to their child's upbringing - including disciplining him.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with parents diciplining or not. It's to do with an Uncle taking it upon himself to use physical punishment & then telling the kid there is no Santa.

If the parents are too lax then the parents need a talking to & they reserve the right to tell yo where to go telling them how to parent, if the kid is ungrateful then tell him he's being ungrateful - grabbing someone elses child, man-handling them & then taking it upon yourself to tell them there is no Santa is completely bang out of order - regardless of folks feelings on how parents should discipline. How the parents discipline is another topic & none of the OP's business.

LegacyUser · 26-12-2006 06:04PM

'Well I called over this morning. St. Stephen's morning. My bro and his GF were cool about it. His GF told me that the little brat deserved a good shaking up like that, and maybe if he had a strong influence like me in his life he wouldn't be getting into so much trouble at school, etc. My bro said that he's going to be sterner in the future with him and take less crap. After I left they had a LONG chat with him about his behaviour and how it needs to change.

As for the whole Santa issue, my brother told him that Santa was only pretend, and he indeed bought all the presents, but he was not to tell his little sister.

When the boy came into the room, he said hello to me, and was generally much more well behaved. A MASSIVE turnaround from Christmas morning.'

Fanny Cradock · 26-12-2006 06:39PM

Again, I disagree. What was done to the child cannot be undone. At this point there is little point in repeating the fact that it was wrong - there are enough posts saying that already.

As I've already said, the OP needs to address why he felt the need to react like he did. In similar (soul searching) manner, I think that the parents need to confront the fact that their son is a brat and take steps to do something about it, lest he grow up into one.

I realise I'm repeating myself here, but if the above issues are addressed, what happened may well be a catalyst for a positive change in the life of all those involved.

As for the active input of the uncle into the child's life - including discipline - well, that would seem to be a function of the uncles relationship with the family. My young nephew lives with me, I love him and am very close to him. As such, I feel that I would have a greater input into his life then if I only saw him once a month. If a father wrote in this forum that he did something similar would you disagree with his actions any less? I would guess the answer would be no.

I ruined Christmas.

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