This'll get them going in Cork!!!!!

Zebra3 · 01-11-2006 07:45AM #1

This'll certainly have them up in arms again!!!!!

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1716036&issue_id=14831

Royal helper demands €1m for town's park

A BUCKINGHAM Palace official and his brother were last night accused of acting like 'carpetbaggers' over ancestral lands used as an Irish town park.

Patrick and Michael Jephson are seeking up to €1m for a 34-acre property which their ancestor had leased to the town of Mallow in North Cork for use as a park and public amenity.

The land was given to Mallow in 1907 on a 99-year lease which officially expired at 12pm last night.

Michael Jephson, director of hospitality at Buckingham Palace, and his brother Patrick, a former aide to Princess Diana, initiated legal proceedings earlier this year for repossession of the 34-acre park after talks on a new lease failed.

The park - which borders the River Blackwater - is the town's main amenity. The Jephson brothers have now granted a six-month extension to Mallow Town Council and Cork County Council for talks on the future of the park - almost 99 years to the day since their ancestor, Catherine Jephson-Norreys, leased the land to Mallow for the use of its people.

The six-month extension to facilitate talks came after the London brothers refused an offer of €500,000 for their interest in the property.

Offer

It is understood the brothers value their interest at approximately €1m - and both Mallow and Cork County Council will now have to substantially increase their offer.

Last night, local Cllr Joe Sherlock said the stance of the Jephsons was in stark contrast to the attitude of their forebears.

"I don't think the descendants of the original Commander Jephson are acting in good faith - I think they are out to make a quick buck."

"They have never made any fruitful contribution to life in Mallow and now they are seeking to act as carpet-baggers and extract an astronomical sum. We believe that that is wrong - it is morally indefensible," he said.

Ralph Riegel

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 01-11-2006 08:31AM

it would if we took much notice.... but unlike some of our others friends a little north of us, we don't recognize buckingham palace or any ancestral claims they may have. we will just keep stringing them along for the ride.

nice try.

meditraitor · 01-11-2006 10:22AM

I dont see the problem, the land belongs to them legally, the 99 year lease is up so they have a right to do what ever they like with it, and if they do sell it for €1m, Mallow is getting one hell of a deal for 34acres

Mark

chamlis · 01-11-2006 10:27AM

So what if no one pays?
What are they going to do, pitch a tent in the middle of the park and shake fists at us lowly Irish?

squibs · 01-11-2006 10:31AM

http://mallowtown.com/PHPbb2/viewtopic.php?t=588

Further debate on the issue here.

€1,000,000 does seem like ok value, even if the land spends a lot of time underwater.

meditraitor · 01-11-2006 10:38AM

chamlis wrote:

So what if no one pays?

34 acres of land in any Irish town will sell, especially at that price!
They(owners) are doing the right thing by offering it to Mallow at a knockdown price, although Im sure there is plenty of unscrupulous builders out there who would be willing to step in if the town/council is too miserley to cough up.

xabi · 01-11-2006 10:45AM

Patrick and Michael Jephson, if your listening, I offer 1.1 Million for the park.

BTW - How many house could i fit onto 34 Acres?

X.

r3nu4l · 01-11-2006 10:54AM

If the law says it's theirs they are entitled to demand money for it for a new lease.

They are also entitled to sell it and I'm sure many of Irelands wealthy would eagerly pay €1 million for it. It's a pittance to pay for that amount of land.

I'd like to know more about how the land came to be theirs. I disagree with English ownership of any land that was forcibly taken during occupation all those years ago but if it was bought by their ancestors or taken in payment of debt then that's fair enough.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 01-11-2006 11:04AM

meditraitor wrote:

the land belongs to them legally,
Mark

does it?

r3nu4l wrote:

I'd like to know more about how the land came to be theirs. I disagree with English ownership of any land that was forcibly taken during occupation all those years ago but if it was bought by their ancestors or taken in payment of debt then that's fair enough.

i have to agree with your comments r3nu4l
......

doing a little research myself here, apparently the land was "granted" to them before 1580 something by the then queen of england elizabeth I.

so ya, it depends on what side of the fence (water) you sit on whether you believe the land is legally theirs or was initially stolen from the Irish.
i know what we believe in the rest of Ireland, but that may differ as you enter the pale

ziggy · 01-11-2006 11:43AM

This post has been deleted.

ClockWorkOrange · 01-11-2006 12:04PM

1906 was pre-independence..

Those English ***** should be told to **** off!

nesf · 01-11-2006 12:05PM

ziggy67 wrote:

The council of the day signed a 99 year lease with the owners so they obviously recognised the ownership was legit.

Eh, in 1907 the ownership would be legit considering we were part of the British Empire back then. It's a fair price that they are asking though; they should be paid really imho.

nesf · 01-11-2006 12:05PM

ClockWorkOrange wrote:

1906 was pre-independence..

Those English ***** should be told to **** off!

Tone it down a bit please.

meditraitor · 01-11-2006 12:16PM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

doing a little research myself here, apparently the land was "granted" to them before 1580 something by the then queen of england elizabeth I.

so ya, it depends on what side of the fence (water) you sit on whether you believe the land is legally theirs or was initially stolen from the Irish.
i know what we believe in the rest of Ireland, but that may differ as you enter the pale

So you believe that a family who were granted land 426 years ago by the ruler of Ireland at the time should have their land stolen from them?

Thanks be that this type of "blame the brits for everything" attitude is not as prevelant anymore.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 01-11-2006 12:20PM

ziggy67 wrote:

The council of the day signed a 99 year lease with the owners so they obviously recognised the ownership was legit.

erm...do you know when we got independence from england my friend.

the council of the day was english so i would presume the would recognise ownership to be in english.

was that your only point..... ah well.

r3nu4l · 01-11-2006 12:26PM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

i know what we believe in the rest of Ireland, but that may differ as you enter the pale

That whole "The Pale" thing doesn't really stand up anymore tbh, you'll find proportionally as many of 'Pale' minded people in Cork as you will in Dublin, the midset comes with wealth and affluence, rather than Geography

.

As for the land being granted to them...well, I disagree with meditraitor (;) joking). I don't feel it's bigoted to think that the land wasn't really theirs to grant in the first place, these days their invasion and occupation would be considered illegal...even the so called legal occupation of Iraq today doesn't see Britain 'granting' any land to any of her people (not that they would want it I imagine). Sure they grant rebuilding contracts to big firms but no land!

Either way, if Irish law today recognises the legitimacy of the claim (as it appears to) then so be it, I won't argue that, let them get as much money as they can for it

If Mallow were willing to pay €500,000 and these guys want a million, cool! They could get a lot more if it was put on the open market.

EDIT: \m/_(>_<)_\m/, I'm sure that the council of the day were probably majority Irish but with English-leaning sympathies, hence their position on the council

EDIT #2: Actually, thinking about it, if Mallow recognise the ownership of the land then they are just being tight-arsed and cheeky by offering a paltry- €0.5 million! The Government should step in, buy the land outright and let the baby have it's rattle

humanji · 01-11-2006 12:28PM

They weren't the English government. They were people who recieved land. When Ireland became independent, it didn't change the who the land belonged to.

The Sweeper · 01-11-2006 12:28PM

Like anything else, whoever holds the paperwork owns the land. If they have deeds to that patch of earth saying it's theirs, and nobody else has anything on paper that legally supercedes those deeds, well then it belongs to the two chaps who it belongs to.

As for people making an unholy hoo-ha out of the Buckingham Palace or English thing, cop on would you? If the land was leased by an Irish family to Mallow and the lease was now up, it'd be the same issue.

If you don't think so, then I await your communication to the 514,000,000 people currently living in North America requesting they give their land back to the native american indians and go back where they came from.

ferdi · 01-11-2006 12:36PM

throw them their 30 pieces of silver, i wouldnt take a piss for €1million

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 01-11-2006 12:42PM

r3nu4l wrote:

That whole "The Pale" thing doesn't really stand up anymore tbh, you'll find proportionally as many of 'Pale' minded people in Cork as you will in Dublin, the midset comes with wealth and affluence, rather than Geography .

i disagree with you on this point... but that is a different issue and by all means start up another thread if you want to discuss it but not here.

wrote:

EDIT: \m/_(>_<)_\m/, I'm sure that the council of the day were probably majority Irish but with English-leaning sympathies, hence their position on the council

I'm sure your right... but that doesn't take from the fact that it was an english council answering to an english government.

Dyr · 01-11-2006 12:52PM

I say we throw them the million and then turn the site into the Diane Spencer memorial go-kart track.

That or burn their houses down

r3nu4l · 01-11-2006 12:52PM

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

Like anything else, whoever holds the paperwork owns the land.

I agree with you completely, if it's legally theirs then they have the right to sell it!

ClockWorkOrange · 01-11-2006 12:54PM

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

Like anything else, whoever holds the paperwork owns the land. If they have deeds to that patch of earth saying it's theirs, and nobody else has anything on paper that legally supercedes those deeds, well then it belongs to the two chaps who it belongs to.

Now this is possibly the most dumb ignorant thing i have ever witnessed.

So when the Europeans carved up Africa and created land deeds they were clearly in the right.. The Africans who lived and farmed the lands for thousands of years should buy the land back...and happily be driven into slavery.. Get real man... The English basically stole the land of your ancestors and you think thats all right.. Irish men and women toiled in poverty and what amounts to slavery to pay back the English "Land lords" who had the "deeds"

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

If you don't think so, then I await your communication to the 514,000,000 people currently living in North America requesting they give their land back to the native american indians and go back where they came from.

The difference in the US is that the colonists committed mass genocide so that there wasnt enough native americans to push their right to get any of their lands back.. The colonization of America was probably the most shameful period in human history.. the liquidation of entire races.. you wont find it in the offical history...

But according to you its all right though they had the deeds and papers...

I don't think mallow cc should give any money whatsoever to these two jokers, and btw its not mallows money, mallow cc dont have any money, they will use 1million of your taxpaying euros to buy that land back...A stand should be made...

r3nu4l · 01-11-2006 01:00PM

ClockWorkOrange wrote:

But according to you its all right though they had the deeds and papers...

Whether you agree or not according to the LAW it's okay and that's the end of the argument really. I don't agree that it's morally justified but unless the law changes then I'm afraid there is nothing illegal or legally wrong about it.

The Sweeper · 01-11-2006 01:01PM

ClockWorkOrange wrote:

Now this is possibly the most dumb ignorant thing i have ever witnessed.

So when the Europeans carved up Africa and created land deeds they were clearly in the right.. The Africans who lived and farmed the lands for thousands of years should buy the land back...and happily be driven into slavery.. Get real man... The English basically stole the land of your ancestors and you think thats all right.. Irish men and women toiled in poverty and what amounts to slavery to pay back the English "Land lords" who had the "deeds"

The difference in the US is that the colonists committed mass genocide so that there wasnt enough native americans to push their right to get any of their lands back.. The colonization of America was probably the most shameful period in human history.. the liquidation of entire races.. you wont find it in the offical history...

But according to you its all right though they had the deeds and papers...

I don't think mallow cc should give any money whatsoever to these two jokers, and btw its not mallows money, mallow cc dont have any money, they will use 1million of your taxpaying euros to buy that land back...A stand should be made...

...where are you from?

No, seriously, originally, like, where are you from? Your ancestry? Way back when?

The cradle of humanity in northern Africa?

You of Viking descent?

Any Aboriginie in you, you reckon?

Do you know who your great, great, great, great, great grandparents are?

No?

Then what goddamned right do you have to live where you do, you land-stealing, colonising, minority oppressing bigot?

God it must be incredibly difficult to be you, with the enormous weight of guilt you must feel for the hurt your ancestors caused to whoever it was whose land they stole so you could live where you do. Sack cloth and ashes and self flagellation on a daily basis, eh?

Sheltered much, you?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 01-11-2006 01:07PM

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

Any Aboriginie in you, you reckon?

As you brought it up...
aren't the Australians giving back lands that was stolen by the English.

good point, but i don't think you meant to agree with our side of the argument,
just as well because that post above is sounding fairly desperate and grasping at straws.

monkeyfudge · 01-11-2006 01:09PM

Surely it doesn't matter who owns the land. If it has been designated as a park then no one can build anything else on it.

They just don't have to grant planning permission for anything.

r3nu4l · 01-11-2006 01:09PM

Wow Zebra3, good thread, didn't just get them going in Cork, got people going here on boards too

On another note, the style has just reverted from funky Hallowe'en to normal

Think I'll play around with the settings

EDIT:

monkeyfudge wrote:

Surely it doesn't matter who owns the land. If it has been designated as a park then no one can build anything else on it.

Hey you, stop coming in here talking sense, this is AH, take your reasonable, sensible talk elsewhere pilgrim, this is our land...geddit?

The Sweeper · 01-11-2006 01:15PM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

As you brought it up...
aren't the Australians giving back lands that was stolen by the English.

good point, but i don't think you meant to agree with our side of the argument,
just as well because that post above is sounding fairly desperate and grasping at straws.

They're giving back their entire continent are they? Oh sorry, I must have missed that on the lunchtime news.

daveirl · 01-11-2006 01:21PM

This post has been deleted.

ClockWorkOrange · 01-11-2006 01:24PM

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

...where are you from?

No, seriously, originally, like, where are you from? Your ancestry? Way back when?

The cradle of humanity in northern Africa?

You of Viking descent?

Any Aboriginie in you, you reckon?

Do you know who your great, great, great, great, great grandparents are?

No?

Then what goddamned right do you have to live where you do, you land-stealing, colonising, minority oppressing bigot?

God it must be incredibly difficult to be you, with the enormous weight of guilt you must feel for the hurt your ancestors caused to whoever it was whose land they stole so you could live where you do. Sack cloth and ashes and self flagellation on a daily basis, eh?

Sheltered much, you?

I'm embarrassed for you..

You clearly don't understand the difference between the dynamics of early human settlement and the concept of modern colonization...

Think about it, what if you were an aboriginal? Would you be making the same argument?

This'll get them going in Cork!!!!!

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