Poor Bertie

thebaz · 26-09-2006 05:16PM #1

Am i alone in having symapthy for our under fire leader .
Sure he may have made a little illegal gain to help through his seperation costs , but he still led the country through its most prosperous times , and helped cement peace on our island .
The country has never enjoyed such prosperity, and yet the media and opposition are ready to kill, would they honestly have done any different ?
I for one say well done Bertie, and I have no links to any political party.

Dragan · 26-09-2006 05:26PM

bah just more "he did loads of good and just a little bad".....the whole fuc*ing point is that they should do not bad at all.

Or am i only one who thinks that?

26-09-2006 05:29PM

I'd hope that other politicians wouldn't have pissed away some of the wealth like the present shower have, but I'm very cynical as you know Ted.

MrJoeSoap · 26-09-2006 05:33PM

Dying to see him on the Six One news tbh.

If he can't clear the situation up, he's in big trouble. And rightly so. Anybody in a position of trust, elected by the public, has a duty to be honest at all times. Be they Minister for Finance, Taoiseach, whatever...

Mossy Monk · 26-09-2006 05:52PM

i really cannot wait to hear whats on this interview

Sure he may have made a little illegal gain to help through his seperation costs

should be enough to get rid of him imo

koneko · 26-09-2006 05:56PM

This is probably one of many shady things he's done, and he's busted for this one. Can't say I feel sorry for him.

Darragh29 · 26-09-2006 06:17PM

De mans a gonner in my opinion after watchin six one, the long knives are being sharpened as we speak I'd say!

Farcear · 26-09-2006 06:20PM

Well, the interview just started now. On Radio 1.

ninebeanrows · 26-09-2006 06:46PM

Listening to his interview i really don't understand what he did wrong.

Most people are just out to take down another long standing and succesful leader but thankfully this time they will not have succeeded its' quite clear what was done was not wrong.

###

greg678 · 26-09-2006 06:47PM

Dammit

Hows it going, and who said his gains were illegal people, dont jump on the death wagon:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It seems to me that he did nothing wrong, the meida just want a go(as usual)

exCrumlinBoyo · 26-09-2006 07:01PM

Politicians piss me of and I knew sooner or later Bertie would be found out because politicians can’t fecking help themselves. Brown paper envelops all over the place. I was talking to me mate back home on the phone over the weekend. He is an accountant and he works for a very wealthy guy who is into property and it making a lot of money from it. Millions actually! Anyway my mate went down to Wexford a couple of weekends ago to a FF gig with his boss. His boss wanted him to go to fill a seat in. My mates boss needs to get in with the FF lads and in order to get in with them, FF auction off a pair of tickets to the Ryder Cup and sell them for 5000 euro. Now to me this is touting because the money is not going to charity or anything like that its going into the FF coffers. My point is that its another form of brown paper envelops in order to get planning permissions to build. The rich get richer and the poor people are stuck looking at Bertie getting caught with his pants down. Yes he may of brought Ireland through to the rich times, but he took money and failed to find a happy medium with the country.

Politicians = Dirty hungry money grabbing, help the rich, feck the poor arse wipes…

greg678 · 26-09-2006 07:11PM

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

Politicians piss me of and I knew sooner or later Bertie would be found out because politicians can’t fecking help themselves. Brown paper envelops all over the place. I was talking to me mate back home on the phone over the weekend. He is an accountant and he works for a very wealthy guy who is into property and it making a lot of money from it. Millions actually! Anyway my mate went down to Wexford a couple of weekends ago to a FF gig with his boss. His boss wanted him to go to fill a seat in. My mates boss needs to get in with the FF lads and in order to get in with them, FF auction off a pair of tickets to the Ryder Cup and sell them for 5000 euro. Now to me this is touting because the money is not going to charity or anything like that its going into the FF coffers. My point is that its another form of brown paper envelops in order to get planning permissions to build. The rich get richer and the poor people are stuck looking at Bertie getting caught with his pants down. Yes he may of brought Ireland through to the rich times, but he took money and failed to find a happy medium with the country.

Politicians = Dirty hungry money grabbing, help the rich, feck the poor arse wipes…

So if all the pols are like that, who do you want?

Live in a monarch:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

26-09-2006 07:13PM

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

I was talking to me mate back home on the phone over the weekend. He is an accountant and he works for a very wealthy guy who is into property and it making a lot of money from it. Millions actually! etc. etc. etc.

I have a mate who tells me that every FF politician gives every cent to help the poor in Calcutta. 1-1 on the anecdotal evidence front then I guess...

I voted FF last time around. Looking at the economy and the North, will vote for them again barring some major policy reversals. However, still think Ahern is rightly getting a lot of flak for this and wouldn't shed a tear if he went. He is squirming and ducking for cover. We are talking about a heck of a lot of money and so far he hasn't explained it away very successfully...

J.R.HARTLEY · 26-09-2006 07:22PM

what scared me was when he said on 6.01 news that he didn't give his benefactors governemnt jobs or contracts because of the money but rather because they were his friends :eek:, surely it's whoevers best suited for the job bertie, not jobs for the boys

thebaz · 26-09-2006 07:25PM

i'd say i could have a pint of smithwicks with Bertie , talk footy , and say hed be sound ... unlike some of the other boring or stuck up so called do gooders .
Hes done an excellent job managing the country in my opinion, but then again whod be a politician ?

exCrumlinBoyo · 26-09-2006 07:35PM

greg678 wrote:

So if all the pols are like that, who do you want?

Live in a monarch:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Who said anything about a Monarch pal... Crooked Pols are a fact of life... its that simple... thats why I am in the wrong business and dont have time for pols...

constitutionus · 26-09-2006 07:39PM

liked the bit of sophistry he used " i didnt get any where near 50 to 100 thousand " yet when you convert the 39 thousand punt to euro you get very close to 50k, and thats in 93! christ alone knows what inflation would do to that figure in todays economy. so i reckon its probably the guts of 100k probably more!

one other thing struck me. why did he need the money when he already got the money from a bank loan in AIB to pay for the costs and obligations? was he just covering for the interest the bank would charge by paying it off straight away?

and finally, is a loan a loan when you dont pay it back? exactly when does it become a gift?

Sparky · 26-09-2006 07:40PM

Welcome to Ireland.

I'm sure all the politicians in the dail have a clean slate. :rolleyes:

greg678 · 26-09-2006 07:46PM

The Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, has given details of payments totalling £39,000 which were made to him in the early 1990s when he was Minister for Finance.

In his first detailed interview since the payments controversy began six days ago, Mr Ahern told RTÉ News that a group of friends made two separate payments to him in December 1993 and in 1994.

The Taoiseach said he regarded the money as a loan to cover the costs of his legal separation, but he conceded that no repayments have yet been made and no interest has been paid.

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Mr Ahern said this was because the individuals involved refused payment. He said he regarded the money as a debt of honour and insisted it would be paid back.

He separated from his wife, Miriam, in 1987 and protracted legal proceedings did not conclude until 1993.

The first payment to Mr Ahern, in December 1993, was for £22,500. The money came from eight associates of the then Minister for Finance.

They have been named as Paddy Reilly, Des Richardson, Padraic O'Connor, Jim Nugent, David McKenna, Fintan Gunne, Mick Collins and Charlie Chawke.

The second payment, in 1994, was for £16,500, and was from a separate group of friends - Joe Burke, Dermot Carew, Barry English and Paddy Reilly.

The Taoiseach said he had given all of these details in confidence to the Mahon Tribunal and would have preferred them to remain his private business. He said the leak of these details to the media had nothing to do with planning or rezoning.

Opposition calls for Dáil debate

Earlier, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said he found what he described as the 'spin coming from Government about the Taoiseach's marital affairs' nauseating.

Speaking to RTÉ News, Mr Kenny said Mr Ahern was hypocritical in his approach towards politicians receiving cash gifts.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, has said that he has no doubts about Mr Ahern's integrity.

Mr McDowell said that the PDs had deliberately allowed him space and time to assemble the facts surrounding private donations 13 years ago.

Mr McDowell said the two parties remained determined to serve a full term and to complete their mandate.

From RTE website

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0926/ahernb.html

And dont forget people, he prob had to contact all these people and check how they felt about there names going public

That maybe why it took such a long time for him to tell us

Dave! · 26-09-2006 09:22PM

thebaz wrote:

i'd say i could have a pint of smithwicks with Bertie , talk footy , and say hed be sound ... unlike some of the other boring or stuck up so called do gooders

He's spent a long time working on that image mate... Either I'm cynical or you're naive.

Mossy Monk · 26-09-2006 09:47PM

Oireachtas Report will be interesting tomorrow night

Huggles · 26-09-2006 09:49PM

thebaz wrote:

Am i alone in having symapthy for our under fire leader .
Sure he may have made a little illegal gain to help through his seperation costs , but he still led the country through its most prosperous times , and helped cement peace on our island .
The country has never enjoyed such prosperity, and yet the media and opposition are ready to kill, would they honestly have done any different ?
I for one say well done Bertie, and I have no links to any political party.

Prosperity?

Lend us a fiver will ya?

dingding · 26-09-2006 09:55PM

constitutionus wrote:

liked the bit of sophistry he used " i didnt get any where near 50 to 100 thousand " yet when you convert the 39 thousand punt to euro you get very close to 50k, and thats in 93! christ alone knows what inflation would do to that figure in todays economy. so i reckon its probably the guts of 100k probably more!

one other thing struck me. why did he need the money when he already got the money from a bank loan in AIB to pay for the costs and obligations? was he just covering for the interest the bank would charge by paying it off straight away?

and finally, is a loan a loan when you dont pay it back? exactly when does it become a gift?

If he purchased a house with the money at the time it would be worth a minimum of 700k euro now, It might be a small amount by current standards but if you look at what is was worth back then it was a significant ammount of money. Why did he ned to get a loan from the boy's when he had a loan already. Unless he was getting a preferential rate.

Where can I get a Debt of honour for 700K ???????

Trinity · 26-09-2006 09:55PM

I'm with the baz.

Think Bertie is a very clever man and has put Ireland on the map.

He'll still get my vote. The media would pounce if he **** crooked. Thats what they are there for.

dingding · 26-09-2006 09:58PM

His reward was his pay, the same as any public servant. :mad:

The Taoiseach will benefit from an annual pay rise of €5,500 from tomorrow, the fifth salary increase for him and his Ministers in six months. Stephen Collins, Political Correspondent, reports.
The increase of 3.5 per cent, which will bring Bertie Ahern's salary to over €252,000, is the second phase of an interim special pay award for higher public servants. Others who will benefit are Ministers, senior civil servants, heads of semi-State companies, county managers and judges.

The latest rise will mean that Mr Ahern's salary has increased by almost €25,000 in less than a year through a combination of public service pay rounds, benchmarking and special awards. The increase for the Taoiseach and his Ministers began on June 1st last with a 1.5 per cent pay rise under Sustaining Progress. This applied to both their TD salary and their much bigger office-holder's allowance.

From Irish Times 31 Dec 05

Trinity · 26-09-2006 10:02PM

He was minister for finance back then, not running the country.

He wouldnt have gotten where he was if he wasnt a clever shrewd man.

dingding · 26-09-2006 10:04PM

And cockey.

Trinity · 26-09-2006 10:08PM

dingding wrote:

And cockey.

I know thats why i like him

But seriously and excuse my ignorance - what is the problem?

Friends loaned him money. It hasnt been paid back. Is it because he didnt pay tax on it?

How is it anyones business and if there was no contract in writing stating terms or interest and it was made out to him as a personal loan from a friend, what the problem? How can they prove he had no intention of paying it back?

And again, it wasnt stolen public funds - how is it anyones business?

(i'm sure someone is going to tell me

)

dingding · 26-09-2006 10:25PM

Trinity1 wrote:

I know thats why i like him

And again, it wasnt stolen public funds - how is it anyones business?

(i'm sure someone is going to tell me )

We need to see if any of the people who loaned the money got anything in return?

If the lenders recieved nothing and his tax affairs are in order in relation to this (he is an accountant) then case closed. I suppose it is a case of wait and see.

Fraggle Rocks · 26-09-2006 10:42PM

Trinity1 wrote:

I know thats why i like him

But seriously and excuse my ignorance - what is the problem?

Friends loaned him money. It hasnt been paid back. Is it because he didnt pay tax on it?

How is it anyones business and if there was no contract in writing stating terms or interest and it was made out to him as a personal loan from a friend, what the problem? How can they prove he had no intention of paying it back?

And again, it wasnt stolen public funds - how is it anyones business?

(i'm sure someone is going to tell me )

Em he was the Minister For Finance of this country. That means he can change, amend and make new tax legislation, he can designate tax reliefs etc and he can appoint people to boards of State bodies.

A group of businessmne, gave the Minister For Finance of this country a substantial amount of money, money that has not been paid back, money that no interest has been paid on. Several of the business men who gave him this money are on the boards of state bodies. They are in the position of (hypothetically) benefitting from any tax breaks, reliefs or laws that Bertie Ahern may made in his time as Minister For Finance and Taoiseach.

Basically our Taoiseach is in the pocket of a group of businessmen, and this doesn't concern you at all?

1huge1 · 26-09-2006 10:44PM

agreed he has done great for this country
more than any other leader

Poor Bertie

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