Welfare fraud from non-nationals

janullrich · 11-09-2006 10:56PM #1

It is disgraceful the way some non-nationals have got away with defrauding the welfare system. They should certainly never be allowed back into this country. It is more commonplace then before particularly around where I live in Blanchardstown. The government should step up deportations of people who do not know or care about the rules of the land.

Rabies · 11-09-2006 11:00PM

What about the Irish people that do it? Can we send them to the North Pole without a fuel allowance?

MrJoeSoap · 11-09-2006 11:01PM

Rabies wrote:

What about the Irish people that do it? Can we send them to the North Pole without a heating/fuel allowance?

Was just gonna say the same thing.

Ruu_Old · 11-09-2006 11:02PM

Rabies wrote:

What about the Irish people that do it? Can we send them to the North Pole without a fuel allowance?

Indeed. Any links or facts on this issue OP?

Dord · 11-09-2006 11:09PM

Rabies wrote:

What about the Irish people that do it? Can we send them to the North Pole without a fuel allowance?

exactly, that was what i was thinking too. You can't blame any one race on anything, every country has bad & good people.

i hate when people do this, "those [insert country here] are stealing all our [insert problem here - jobs/women/money/other rubbish] and theyre coming over here illegally"

these threads pop up all the time here, its annoying

Mossy Monk · 11-09-2006 11:10PM

janullrich wrote:

It is disgraceful the way some non-nationals have got away with defrauding the welfare system

yeah damn those non nationals :rolleyes:
why don't you rephrase your post to also show your disgust at Irish people who do it or is it that you don't care about Irish people committing fraud?

Dyr · 11-09-2006 11:11PM

Speaking of fraud and foreign johnnies, i was walking up the ballymun road there at the weekend and i see a squad car has pulled up and the shickelownies are out talking to these two eastern european types, as im walking towards them one of the cops is holding a document or something up to the light " how odd" i thought, as I pass them by I see its actually a hundred euro note that the cop is holding up and he's repeating "this is'nt real money where did you get it?". I'm pretty sure the other cop had a load of greenies in his hand too. Of course, Ivan is playing dumb about it all :rolleyes:

Anyway this is how those "friend of a friend" stories start, ye know the ones certain people here insist are never true

ThrownAway · 11-09-2006 11:13PM

They need to make a living.

accensi0n · 11-09-2006 11:33PM

janullrich wrote:

It is disgraceful the way some non-nationals have got away with defrauding the welfare system. They should certainly never be allowed back into this country. It is more commonplace then before particularly around where I live in Blanchardstown. The government should step up deportations of people who do not know or care about the rules of the land.

Links? Facts? figures?

Ratio between foreigners and the irish that do it?

Rabies · 11-09-2006 11:38PM

accensi0n wrote:

Links? Facts? figures?

Ratio between foreigners and the irish that do it?

Give the poor guy a chance. He needs to contact the CSO for the true facts and figures.
Does it matter, THEY are still criminals no matter what.

Sangre · 11-09-2006 11:43PM

If they're declared asylums they've every right to claim.

Guy:Incognito · 11-09-2006 11:48PM

Rabies wrote:

What about the Irish people that do it? Can we send them to the North Pole without a fuel allowance?

While I dont agree with the ranty nataure of "get the bloody foreigners out" ( my mother came over here when there were very few) , theres a certain allowance for home grown chancers, people tend to resent the importation of spongers.

Generally people wont have an issue with hard working foreigners (the Polish seem to be fairly well liked) but dont tend to look too kindly on a lot of people from africa because they generally see them coming out od the dole office and haning around all day (ie not working).

Sangre wrote:

If they're declared asylums they've every right to claim.

Theres a failign in the system. Not just for foreigners , but the dole system in general.

Whatever way people want to look at it, while we are a magnet for hard working types who want to earn decent money, we are a bigger target for the freeloading , "i want free money" types because of our immigration and hand out systems. Theres a reason we have much higher rates of immigrants than other coutries and anyone thinking they're coming here to interact with the charming locals is kidding themselves.

toomevara · 11-09-2006 11:49PM

Just for a little perspective,Welfare fraud was distilled to an fine art by the Irish in London in the 80's...we were the uber-fiddlers of Kilburn and Camden. Course we tended to justify it as one in the eye for the brits...a continuation of the economic war by proxy, ha ha how we laughed.. we quickly ploughed it all back in to the local offy/gin mill though....practically EVERYONE was at it.....

Blackjack · 11-09-2006 11:52PM

Article on the front page of todays Irish times - you have a few minutes to check it out before if to subscription only.

Guy:Incognito · 11-09-2006 11:55PM

toomevara wrote:

Just for a little perspective,Welfare fraud was distilled to an fine art by the Irish in London in the 80's...we were the uber-fiddlers of Kilburn and Camden. Course we tended to justify it as one in the eye for the brits...a continuation of the economic war by proxy, ha ha how we laughed.. we quickly ploughed it all back in to the local offy/gin mill though....practically EVERYONE was at it.....

This is the same arguement that came up about the irish illegals in america. You cant pass off whats going on here by saying "but the irsh did it elsewhere". What the irish do in other countries is a problem for those countries, it's not for us to use as an example to cover up our problems.

Delboy05 · 12-09-2006 12:03AM

accensi0n wrote:

Links? Facts? figures?

Ratio between foreigners and the irish that do it?

does no one read the papers before they jump into posts like this!!!!
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0911/1156791558637.html

is anyone really surprised at this!!!! 1 nigerian cpl run a 4 star hotel in lagos and call over a few times a year to make sure the welfare thinks they're still here.
Another cpl get rent allowance and child benfit of 3k a month depite the husband been a fully qualified doctor in Belfast general.

We're the laugh of the asylum seeking world. Did anyone really believe that we were getting all those asylum seekers, who passed through several safe countried to get here, because of our good weather!!!

toomevara · 12-09-2006 12:05AM

Stekelly wrote:

This is the same arguement that came up about the irish illegals in america. You cant pass off whats going on here by saying "but the irsh did it elsewhere". What the irish do in other countries is a problem for those countries, it's not for us to use as an example to cover up our problems.

The simple fact is that any welfare system in a well developed western society will be subject to inevitable and inescapable levels of fraud. The vast majority of welfare fraud/fiddling in Ireland is perpetrated not by nigerian bogeymen or stereotypically 'wicked' asylum seekers.

No way sister! Its your friendly neighbourhood (Irish) skangerman and his mates, all quintessentially workshy, uneducated, unemployable and extremely fertile, who are depriving the state of our well earned tax euros. i merely draw attention to the well documented Irish history of diddling the welfare to keep us humble and tame the worst excesses of our tendancy of late to mount our high horses at the least provocation....

Tha Gopher · 12-09-2006 12:08AM

Stekelly wrote:

While I dont agree with the ranty nataure of "get the bloody foreigners out" ( my mother came over here when there were very few) , theres a certain allowance for home grown chancers, people tend to resent the importation of spongers.

Good God. Stekelly is of half foreign origin. For all we know, he is dark skinned because of it. But wait, he made a sensible comment in relation to this governments immigration policy? How in the name of God can the PC brigade react to this one? If they say something against it, theyre racist against Ste and his mother. If theyre pro his comments, theyre racist. Cant wait to hear this

Every thread where a young poster is shouted down for truthfully claiming that the amount of Poles etc prevents him from getting summer work reminds me of the time a Polish girl told me she thought our policy was mad, we were letting an economically unsafe amount of HER people in.

I should get her to post a thread on boards without mentioning her nationality, wait for the usual suspects to call her a Nazi, and then ask her to scan and post her Polski birth cert and passport and explain her position further.

But sure what would be the point in that? I cant count the amount of times Ive asked questions the PC boys refused to answer.

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2006 12:14AM

toomevara wrote:

The simple fact is that any welfare system in a well developed western society will be subject to inevitable and inescapable levels of fraud. The vast majority of welfare fraud/fiddling in Ireland is perpetrated not by nigerian bogeymen or stereotypically 'wicked' asylum seekers.

No way sister! Its your friendly neighbourhood (Irish) skangerman and his mates, all quintessentially workshy, uneducated, unemployable and extremely fertile, who are depriving the state of our well earned tax euros. i merely draw attention to the well documented Irish history of diddling the welfare to keep us humble and tame the worst excesses of our tendancy of late to mount our high horses at the least provocation....

Hence why I said the dole system was flawed. Let there be a max claim time of 6 months in a 5 year period. People will have to go take the low paying jobs that they felt were below them or were just to lazy to get up off their arses and take.

Ill use 1 example of a guy who came into the shop I used to work in to buy a €2000 tv. He happened to be nigerian (it said so on his passport) He wanted finance, so we're going through the application and he gets to employement details and he asks is it ok that he doesnt work but is on welfare. I oldhim it wouldnt go through but we tried anyway. Inevitably he was declined but wasnt the least bit fazed and just says "ill be back in an hour with cash", sure enough he was. My point ot this is, if people on the dole/ whatever asylum seekers/foreigners get can afford €2k tv's , then there is a seriopus flaw in our system. (this wasnt an isolated incident btw)

Sangre · 12-09-2006 12:18AM

Delboy05 wrote:

does no one read the papers before they jump into posts like this!!!!
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0911/1156791558637.html

is anyone really surprised at this!!!! 1 nigerian cpl run a 4 star hotel in lagos and call over a few times a year to make sure the welfare thinks they're still here.

We're the laugh of the asylum seeking world. Did anyone really believe that we were getting all those asylum seekers, who passed through several safe countried to get here, because of our good weather!!!

Yeah because flying return from Nigeria a couple of times a year is definitely worth what they would be claiming each year....

Hmm, I think a little blood just came out of my years after reading this post.

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2006 12:23AM

Sangre wrote:

Yeah because flying return from Nigeria a couple of times a year is definitely worth what they would be claiming each year...

Not to state the obvious but thats a stupid thing to say, obviously it is worth it or they wouldnt be doing it, especially if they are getting anywhere near the €3k a month the doctors wife is getting , thats €36k a year btw . The fact that it's happening is a disgrace. But good to know all the same that we are helping to keep the hotels of nigerian in 4 ply toilet paper.

Delboy05 · 12-09-2006 12:31AM

Sangre wrote:

Yeah because flying return from Nigeria a couple of times a year is definitely worth what they would be claiming each year....

Hmm, I think a little blood just came out of my years after reading this post.

read the papers mate....and open your eyes to whats goign on around you

Sangre · 12-09-2006 12:52AM

Stekelly wrote:

Not to state the obvious but thats a stupid thing to say, obviously it is worth it or they wouldnt be doing it, especially if they are getting anywhere near the €3k a month the doctors wife is getting , thats €36k a year btw . The fact that it's happening is a disgrace. But good to know all the same that we are helping to keep the hotels of nigerian in 4 ply toilet paper.

€7500 return each way for 2 people (only price (aer france)), several times a year? Thats roughly 30000 a year.

Mmm cheap! Social welfare always doles out that much.

stepbar · 12-09-2006 12:56AM

From my own experience of working in a social welfare office it is quite easy to "beat the system". One area that needs to be tightened up is the process of issuing PPS numbers. To get a PPS number all is needed is a passport or other form of id and proof of address (AFAIK certainly when I was there anyhow). The problem is that there is no actual mechanism for checking if the passport is real or not apart from actually ringing up the passports office. Chances are the person taking the claim wont have time and will have to use their intution and judgement. Its alright with a GNIB card cause they are fairly hard to fake. I remember one incident where a guy from one of the new EU states was caught trying to get a PPS number with a passport that was used before to get a PPS (Can rem specifics, They two guys must have looked alike or something

). Once you have the PPS number its easy street after that. And its not that hard to prove that you have an address either or get access to any amount of other addresses. People have friends and could have one in every postcode / any part of the country for all we know. There's nothing to say that foreign nationals are the only people "beating the system", im sure our own are at it too.

Tha Gopher · 12-09-2006 12:59AM

What if i want a new PPS number so as i can work 80 hours a week in two jobs, avoiding heavy tax and rubbish EU rules that dont take into account the cost of living here,

FunkyChicken · 12-09-2006 01:10AM

Why do the first couple of posts automatically class the OP as anti-foreign person? Maybe he thinks the Irish do, maybe he doesnt. It doesnt matter. He's asking about foreigners doing it. They do it. It doesnt matter if the Irish do it, the foreigners do it too and thats whats he's addressing.

billy the squid · 12-09-2006 06:15AM

toomevara wrote:

Just for a little perspective,Welfare fraud was distilled to an fine art by the Irish in London in the 80's...we were the uber-fiddlers of Kilburn and Camden. Course we tended to justify it as one in the eye for the brits...a continuation of the economic war by proxy, ha ha how we laughed.. we quickly ploughed it all back in to the local offy/gin mill though....practically EVERYONE was at it.....

I can attest to this, don't know how many times I was offered £100 or so for a birth cert by someone going to the UK.

solskjaer20 · 12-09-2006 08:07AM

Non-nationals?
Non-nationals?

What so you think they don't belong to a country now?

Maybe Irish people living abroad should lose their Irish citizenship as well?
In fact lets pretend they never existed.

Sgt. Politeness · 12-09-2006 08:46AM

I personally find it sickening that people can scam the dole like this. I was out of work around 4 years ago, for about 7 months. I had been working hard for a year and a half beforehand, so had plenty of tax credits, i went on the dole, and when i still hadnt found work 6 months later, i got a letter from social welfare saying 'your dole will be cut off next week. get a job' basically. I had been going for interviews, and had genuinely been trying to find work but my qualifications back then were **** so i was unlucky, but no, 6 months was all i could get before being turfed off the register to get a job, while pieces of sh!t like this are scamming 3,000 euro a month...im in a good job in IT now and even i dont get that a month.
Alot of people here need a serious reality check if they think all foreigners and asylum seekers are hard working joes just here to make an honest buck.
Any non national found guilty of a crime should be deported without question. Id expect no less if i went to live in america and fiddled thier welfare system.

The Sweeper · 12-09-2006 09:00AM

The generalisation is what makes these threads so stupid.

'Non-nationals' do not defraud the social welfare because they are not Irish, those who do it do so because they are scumbags. It has nothing to do with them not being Irish by birth.

The politically correct brigade make a rod for their own backs - by refusing to implement migration criteria, strict asylum policies and rapid deportation (in other words the sort of experience the Irish have if they try to move to the United States or Australia), you make the country a soft touch for the new breed of global migrant scammer.

Therefore, the narrow minded bigots have fuel for their justification that "Johnny Foreigner is over here defrauding our welfare system, stealing our jobs, committing crimes and raping our women".

cournioni · 12-09-2006 09:08AM

ThrownAway wrote:

They need to make a living.

So its ok to commit fraud, just to make a living... :rolleyes:

Welfare fraud from non-nationals

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