UK Terror Attacks?

lazylad · 10-08-2006 08:39PM

who cares, there was history with us and the uk. them extremists would not care if they destroyed uk, ireland all of europe and north america. what did the ira do? only bomb england because they took ireland over and invaded us. The muslim extremists are acting like a cancer they would like to destroy all countries, yet ira only england. Do you see the difference??? If you were in their country no matter how much you defended them, some of them might hate you and kill you, takes a very special person to understand their individuality in that case.
there was some wierdo muslim lad who was on the paper a while back, he was taking trips from shannon airport to england to see what the security was like. The intelligence found him plotting a hijack where he would crash the plane into sellafield. In that case its bye bye collieD. Now, stick with your own type, not defend them! Some musilms are sound, but you don't defend them, when they could have killed loads of innocent people. They could have detonated the plane over ireland and it would be another lockerbie like disaster in ireland also. The american flights go over wexford, waterford, cork and kerry. and most other counties i reckon depending on the flight. what did ireland do to muslim to deserve that???

Collie D · 10-08-2006 08:44PM

lazylad wrote:

Do you see the difference???

Actually, I don't see a difference, both killed innocent people. There's a history been us and the England? They still control Scotland, can't remember the last time a Scotsman blew up a pub in Birmingham. History is exactly that, history

lazylad · 10-08-2006 08:50PM

this is not about ira terror , and this issue affects ireland also. and don#t comment on lithanians not causing problems in tubes, they had the wars where they were too and you are not there and you are not in russia so you can't comment on their behaviour. Talk to some russians and lithuanians about the baltic wars. The russians killed a lot of them etc etc etc. It was like ireland and uk being russia the superpower so lithuania and latvia gained independence. Im not too educated on that so im open for education from other posters.
Remember bosnian war, you don't see any of them blowing up planes either! don't come out with all that ****e about not being discriminative, no race is perfect yet don't shine particularly on the ira. The communists were ba*steds and raped women for no reason when they took over many places. The IRA weren#t that savage, Im not defending them but educate yourself on other european cultures first!

Collie D · 10-08-2006 08:52PM

lazylad wrote:

this is not about ira terror , and this issue affects ireland also. and don#t comment on lithanians not causing problems in tubes, they had the wars where they were too and you are not there and you are not in russia so you can't comment on their behaviour. Talk to some russians and lithuanians about the baltic wars. The russians killed a lot of them etc etc etc. It was like ireland and uk being russia the superpower so lithuania and latvia gained independence. Im not too educated on that so im open for education from other posters.
Remember bosnian war, you don't see any of them blowing up planes either! don't come out with all that ****e about not being discriminative, no race is perfect yet don't shine particularly on the ira. The communists were ba*steds and raped women for no reason when they took over many places. The IRA weren#t that savage, Im not defending them but educate yourself on other european cultures first!

Try and read my posts before you start commenting on them!

Call Me Jimmy · 10-08-2006 08:54PM

iguana wrote:

But isn't that the point.

A small number of extremists commit mass murder. More westerners start to to form bad opinions of the entire muslim community. More muslims feel disenfranchised and become easier to manipulate into extremist mass murderers.

Yea but no matter how racist a group of people are to me, I'm not gonna go out a blow up planes full of innocent people.

And wtf "more muslims feel disenfranchised and become easier to manipulate into extremist mass murders"

Well that is one way of handling their anger at being labeled terrorists... blowing up planes.

**** them

lazylad · 10-08-2006 10:22PM

Apologies collie d., i was not having a go at you. yeah i shud read posts better sorry :?

Collie D · 10-08-2006 10:35PM

lazylad wrote:

Apologies collie d., i was not having a go at you. yeah i shud read posts better sorry :?

No worries, man

iguana · 10-08-2006 10:35PM

Collie D wrote:

Fair point, iguana. But where are the leaders to condemn the terrorist attacks?

But they do, all the time. Whenever something like this happens, muslim community leaders come out in their droves to condemn it and dis-associate themselves from the extremists.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&hs=qev&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=muslims+condemn+bombing&spell=1

Call Me Jimmy wrote:

Yea but no matter how racist a group of people are to me, I'm not gonna go out a blow up planes full of innocent people.

And wtf "more muslims feel disenfranchised and become easier to manipulate into extremist mass murders"

Well that is one way of handling their anger at being labeled terrorists... blowing up planes.

**** them

For 25 years the IRA was involved in the killing of civilians as a supposedly legitimate tool for airing their grievences. While IRA attacks were markedly different in that their aim was never to kill as many civilians as possible, and that it was general policy to warn the authorities and give them a chance to evacuate before any explosion. They still took innocent lives and counted it as collateral damage. I can understand why they felt driven to do what they did, and I can't honestly say that I would have done differently in their situation, but I can say that what they did was wrong.

And that is the exact same now with muslim extremists. Blowing people up is undoubtably wrong, and their own justifications are a hell of a lot crazier than anything the IRA ever aimed for, as Al Qaeda's ultimate goal is to wipe out all non-muslims. But forming racist judgements against all muslims will only make things worse, as that will lead to more terrorists.

I'm not excusing what any bombers have done, or what any potential bombers are/have been planning. But terrorists aren't born they are made. Not looking at the causes of terror and instead indiscriminately judging all members of one religion by the actions of a few, will only perpetuate the cycle.

Collie D · 10-08-2006 10:39PM

But you can't just blame society for these murderers. Was watching some Muslim on Sky News and he didn't once condemn terrorists or say it was against Islam. Just kept going on about how Muslims are viewed by the British public. Fair enough, they are probably mistrusted but if this guy was anything to go by I can unserstand a bit of mistrust. He was just short of blaming everyone but the terrorists for these attacks. Sickening!

connundrum · 10-08-2006 10:42PM

lazylad wrote:

There are loads of just average people waiting to get to work the next day on these flights and these low lifes just trying to blow them up when they are probably trying to sleep next to sum *****r who wants you to pull the blind down and is always asleep when you want to piss!!

lazylad wrote:

I hope them extremist f*cks are tortured so bad for months and shown its wrong to blow up planes morally.

I would have thought it bad to blow up a plane regardless of one's morals?

lazylad wrote:

To make it worse, i was in heathrow getting a flight home and there was a women in one of them robes where you cant see their face, she was muslim, and she had a different accent and she had a fresh, irish passport getting on the dublin plane. I hope they don't come here!! Im serious, Ireland to Irish, no arguments.

Bollocks. I may cancel the holiday to Dubai so... thanks for clearing up that rule.

lazylad wrote:

takes a very special person to understand their individuality in that case.

You are this special person? Should we direct all queries to you regarding this matter then?

Whoever gave you that bit of chocolate earlier on is probably regretting it now.

lazylad · 10-08-2006 10:47PM

iguana wrote:

But they do, all the time. Whenever something like this happens, muslim community leaders come out in their droves to condemn it and dis-associate themselves from the extremists.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&hs=qev&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=muslims+condemn+bombing&spell=1

For 25 years the IRA was involved in the killing of civilians as a supposedly legitimate tool for airing their grievences. While IRA attacks were markedly different in that their aim was never to kill as many civilians as possible, and that it was general policy to warn the authorities and give them a chance to evacuate before any explosion. They still took innocent lives and counted it as collateral damage. I can understand why they felt driven to do what they did, and I can't honestly say that I would have done differently in their situation, but I can say that what they did was wrong.

And that is the exact same now with muslim extremists. Blowing people up is undoubtably wrong, and their own justifications are a hell of a lot crazier than anything the IRA ever aimed for, as Al Qaeda's ultimate goal is to wipe out all non-muslims. But forming racist judgements against all muslims will only make things worse, as that will lead to more terrorists.

I'm not excusing what any bombers have done, or what any potential bombers are/have been planning. But terrorists aren't born they are made. Not looking at the causes of terror and instead indiscriminately judging all members of one religion by the actions of a few, will only perpetuate the cycle.

Oh all this sh*t again. Hiding behind the politically correctness. Who gives a sh*t about forming judgements, im sure you do too only you want to seem like oprah on boards.
Their motives are like twisted wake up. IRA were bad too, so were the nazis, communists, and well rwanda who were bad just look at the genocide there, croatia bosnia.chechnya, india and pakistan. come to think of it what country hasn't taken the life of another person in political opinion difference?? iguana answer that.
but do you see these areas blowing up other national airlines from major international airports in a country with a striking difference in culture to their own. eg UK culture is different to Pakistan. UK is full of people from pakistan india etc, and they trying to blow it up??? makes no sense!
These people are as biased against us as what you are trying to say don't discriminate b0ll(x! Grow balls and don't start acting like some eejit tryin to please the muslims. They wou;dnt care if you were on that plane or your family coming home.
Think in a way that doenst involve that highly overused word "discrimination". That word annoys the f*ck outa me. Just a word for chancers to get compo out of or get away with sh*t.

iguana · 10-08-2006 10:51PM

Collie D wrote:

But you can't just blame society for these murderers. Was watching some Muslim on Sky News and he didn't once condemn terrorists or say it was against Islam. Just kept going on about how Muslims are viewed by the British public. Fair enough, they are probably mistrusted but if this guy was anything to go by I can unserstand a bit of mistrust. He was just short of blaming everyone but the terrorists for these attacks. Sickening!

As I seem to remember that was a tactic usually applied by Gerry Adams.

Re muslim leader, From last July.

Muslims worldwide have condemned the terrorist bombings in London that killed more than fifty people.

The Muslim Council of Britain said the bombings were "evil deeds." "The evil people who planned and carried out these series of explosions in London want to demoralize us as a nation and divide us as a people," the group said in a statement. "All of us must unite in helping the police to capture these murderers."

London's Regent's Park Mosque, the largest Muslim cultural center in Europe, also called on British Muslims to help the police find the bombers. In the United States, the Council on American Islamic Relations called the London bombings "barbaric attacks," while the California-based charity Islamic Relief called them "a crime against all of humanity." Edina Lekovic, a spokeswoman for the Muslim Public Affairs Council, says the attacks "violate all principles [of] Islam":

"The Muslim Public Affairs Council, as well as the Council on American Islamic Relations, stand in solidarity with Muslims across the United States, as well as Muslims around the world, in condemning terrorism. This is not the first time we have done it, and it's not the last time that we will do it."

Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and his prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, sent a letter to British prime minister Tony Blair condemning the "murderous and terrorist" London attacks. President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan also sent a message of condolence to British prime minister Blair and called for “a joint fight” against terrorism. “It is imperative that we stand together and further strengthen our bonds of cooperation to eliminate this menace,” said Mr. Musharraf.

Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai called the bombings “an attack against the whole of mankind.” And Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari called the London bombings “shameful” and reaffirmed Iraq’s determination to help eliminate "the evil of terrorism in any country.”

lazylad · 10-08-2006 10:58PM

connundrum...yeah ok. you disaggree with everything i must have said. we know what side you are on. or do you want to try and make me look like a fool?
what i meant by special person is they are pretty "fu*ked up" ah sur probably another nerd you are

Collie D · 10-08-2006 11:03PM

Point taken, iguana. Still don't agree with you re the alienation. Why don't they try to integrate.

connundrum · 10-08-2006 11:05PM

I didn't disagree with all you said. I'm fairly sick over the high tension PC police that are out in force in today's world too.

The points that I quoted were simply things that I couldn't make sense of... and if you want to say something like 'Ireland should be for the Irish' - then you should expect some sort of kick back.

Think of it this way - (and this is all in my opinion btw).

The IRA were waging a war against the UK because of the 800 odd year oppression. Muslim extremists may feel that they are waging a war against the Western Way of Life because they feel that their culture/identity/way of life is being invaded by us westies.

We can always go back to the origional argument of - had we all (America & Europe) not got involved, then we probably wouldn't be under threat.

lazylad wrote:

we know what side you are on.

What the hell does that even mean? I argue with you therefore I am obviously on the dark side??

lazylad wrote:

what i meant by special person is they are pretty "fu*ked up" ah sur probably another nerd you are

lazylad · 10-08-2006 11:11PM

I agree with you there connundrum,
their way of life is very traditional and just like us irish love our culture they love theirs. Ireland is becoming modernised very fast too and I don't like that too much, america is so upbeat it hard to relax there, I wouldn't like here to be like that either.
But what they are doing is very wrong and they need to expect a defense for it. We need to protect thousands of innocent people, children going through airports. We need to and people hiding behind discrimination curtain is just avoidance for the fact they are conscious of what people in their etnnic group have done. It doens't mean they are bad, just they are defensive and angry over it.

iguana · 10-08-2006 11:20PM

lazylad wrote:

IRA were bad too, so were the nazis, communists, and well rwanda who were bad just look at the genocide there, croatia bosnia.chechnya, india and pakistan. come to think of it what country hasn't taken the life of another person in political opinion difference?? iguana answer that.

Umm, I'm pretty sure that was my point. Most conflict has a root cause and the treatment of that is to address the cause, not further perpetuate the conflict.

lazylad wrote:

UK is full of people from pakistan india etc, and they trying to blow it up??? makes no sense!

Actually there is a reasoning for it, Sayyed Qutb, father of modern islamic extremism, concluded that extreme measures, including deception and even violence against non-devout muslims could be justified in an effort to restore shared moral values to society. It's twisted I know, but so are many of the actions taken by the US, the UK, Isreal and others against islamic countries that don't bend to their will and I don't go around judging all people in these countries based on the actions of their governments. Why because it would be stupid and counter-productive.

I am well aware that my life means nothing to muslim terrorists/extremists, I live in London and take the tube everyday to work and back. I'm also well aware of the f*cked up nature of a lot of islamic view points, such as the attitudes toward women and homosexuals. But I'm also aware that plenty of muslims are nice, ordinary people and I'm not going to start hating the lovely Turkish shop keeper who gives me free sweets because some other muslims planned a mass murder. But I am going to try to understand the reasons why some people feel moved to carry out such attacks because it is only through destroying the causes of this hatred that it can be stopped.

When the tube bombings happened last year, one of the first things that went through my head was that if by some small chance the IRA had done this, I was going home. Irish people in the UK went through terrible hatred and discrimination in this country due to IRA bombings here. Some were arrested and had their lives and that of their families ruined based on nothing more than the fact that they were Irish. That sort of discrimination was used to justify IRA actions even further, and I believe that there is a truth in that. It doesn't excuse IRA actions, but it partially explains it. In the same way that hostile actions on the part of the government, police and factions of the general public are partly to blame for the radicilisation of some muslim extremists. The whole story is far more complicated than that,but it is certainly a factor.

InFront · 10-08-2006 11:49PM

lazylad wrote:

To make it worse, i was in heathrow getting a flight home and there was a women in one of them robes where you cant see their face, she was muslim, and she had a different accent and she had a fresh, irish passport getting on the dublin plane. I hope they don't come here!! Im serious, Ireland to Irish, no arguments.

WTF? Ireland to irish? Racial seperatism? That's a pretty stupid post tbh.

UK culture is different to Pakistan. UK is full of people from pakistan india etc, and they trying to blow it up??? makes no sense!

Firstly, India doesnt have much to do with Islamic fuindamentalism. You seem to think extremism applies to an entire religion or nationality. That is absolute stupidity and nothing less.

Grow balls and don't start acting like some eejit tryin to please the muslims. They wou;dnt care if you were on that plane or your family coming home.

I'm a Muslim, I'm mostly Pakistani (by family), Im Irish, and I'm against any form of political violence. Do you even understand that that is a common opinion? Whatever your religion is, doesnt make you any more of a better person than any given Muslim, or make you less likely to do and say stupid things. Religion is being overestimated in this entire 'debate'.
"The Muslims". Would you please stop referring to these extremists as "The Muslims". The real Muslims are normal, hardowrking, decent people living in this city and this country and the bullsh1t you are posting is an insult to all of them. The reference to the IRA and the wider Irish community is very valid, and is one you ought to conisder.
You're completely overlooking the majority and labelling one ideology with one tag "Islam" because that suits your intellect. It's easy.

The Islamic community has a whole spectrum of ideologies and schools of faith. Beyond all of that, outside of the Muslim community, is a thing called fundamentalism, which has nothing to do with the Muslim faith, and is a question of politics, religious fanaticism and nationality.

I don't intend to get in an argument with you because to be honest, you're either fishing for it, or your mindset is one of those that simply cannot be changed.

Terry · 11-08-2006 12:09AM

lazylad banned for blatant racist remarks.

Our man in Havana · 11-08-2006 01:06AM

I wonder how many laptops were damaged in the hold today?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 11-08-2006 07:28AM

lazylad wrote:

To make it worse, i was in heathrow getting a flight home and there was a women in one of them robes where you cant see their face, she was muslim, and she had a different accent and she had a fresh, irish passport getting on the dublin plane. I hope they don't come here!! Im serious, Ireland to Irish, no arguments.

i hope this f#cker doesnt call himself Irish...
back to your dark cave with ya.

scojones · 11-08-2006 09:13AM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

i hope this f#cker doesnt call himself Irish...
back to your dark cave with ya.

His remark kind of reminds you of those young lads in Dublin who caused the 'riots' a while back doesn't it?

daveg · 11-08-2006 09:24AM

julep wrote:

lazylad banned for blatant racist remarks.

Thank god for that.

I heard on the news this morning that this was a "dry run" to test out the liquid bomb method. The UK police thought that this may have taken place in the next few days (to bomb one plane). If sucessfull this would have followed with a much larger scale bombing involving several aircraft. Seemingly they have taken the idea from another terrorist attack on a flight some years ago where they used the same checmical bomb. Basically they can make the liquid element of the bomb by mixing several items that can be found in your local supermarket. It needs an electronic detonator which could take the form (or concealed in) an Ipod or an electronic key thingy.

So my point is say goodbye to all forms of electronic equipment on planes (ipods, laptops, PSP's etc). I'd say drinks will be banned from here on in as well.

I posted on the politics forum yesterday that all checked luggage that goes through the US is hand checked. Thats every single bag (I had to go through this in LAX earlier this year). However hand luggage is only screened and they cannot detect liquids when going through screening. I personally think they will now ban all hand luggage as well. And do you know what, if it makes flying all that safer I say go ahead and ban all of the above when boarding a plane.

scojones · 11-08-2006 09:39AM

daveg wrote:

And do you know what, if it makes flying all that safer I say go ahead and ban all of the above when boarding a plane.

Same here. It really doesn't bother me. I hate waiting to get to my seat because some guy is putting his bag in the over head and it just won't fit. I'd feel alot safer knowing hand luggage was not allowed. It's going to suck for me going to New Zealand in January, but I'll get over it.

chamlis · 11-08-2006 11:14AM

Drinks On A Plane

"We got muthaf***in' Water bottles on the plane!"

luckat · 11-08-2006 11:25AM

The idea of banning liquids and electronics from carry-on, while they can be carried in luggage in the hold is a bit bats, I have to say.

After all, if you're any class of a bomber at all you can put your bomb in the checked-in luggage and have someone detonate it from down on the ground when the plane's in the air - you could even link it to a mobile phone.

The only really sensible option would be to send luggage in separate cargo planes.

iguana · 11-08-2006 07:35PM

luckat wrote:

The only really sensible option would be to send luggage in separate cargo planes.

But couldn't those be blown up just as easily as luggage in a passenger plane. I thought that the main point of this plot was to blow the planes up over dense urban areas and that most of the deaths would be people n the ground killed by falling planes. The passengers would only comprise a small number of the dead.

SpAcEd OuT · 11-08-2006 07:46PM

I'll never understand why they allow people to take lighters onto planes, you can't smoke on a plane and could easily ignite a bomb with a lighter [a la the shoebomber] so why let people take these potentially lethal items onto a plane

InFront · 11-08-2006 09:03PM

Yes Ive never understood that one either^^. I suppose theres nothing better to do on a long haul flight than entertain the passengers with a bit of a fire show!

I wonder if all of this is going to affect the Aer Lingus sale? The aviation industry is not one that people tend to feel confident about at the moment.

Would anyone feel less confident about flying now? Theres all this talk about flying having changed forever, not sure how much of it is exaggerated or realistic

Terry · 11-08-2006 09:13PM

i might be wrong, but don't some airlines allow smoking?
i couldn't handle a 5 hour flight without a cigarette.

UK Terror Attacks?

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