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Night Out Ruined

1234579

Comments

  • #182
    dahooligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭dahooligan


    FillSpectre wrote:
    Never suggested her sex was an issue other than her relationship. Location and irrational reacrion and acknowledgemnet alcohol was involved are enough


    My experience from behind a bar, which is the actual situation we are talking about, counters yours.


    So in your view sober girls cry over more things than drunk girls? I have never heard anything so strange . You are actually suggesting alcohol inhibits emotional control:rolleyes: I love the way that the last option is the situation we are talking about and specifies pubs/clubs. So bad customer service elsewhere doesn't bother them?


    He claimed she was crying when she returned and then she wasn't untill asked. The barmaid returned a smart comment made by the girl. This is according to the original telling of the story.




    Yet you suggest a sober girl would cry at such things straight away? People accuse me of being argumentative but you are argueing with yourself. You can't establish that as I don't agree and I think you would be hard pushed to get anybody to agree with your views on alcohol. I am sure people on this thread will agree as it fits the story though.:rolleyes:



    As a person who would actually have dealt with customers in this exact situation only drunk ones start crying when told off for being rude which is what I consider the "No" to mean.

    I pointed out why I think he is posting and did not say any of the reasons you state now. He thinks he is right but the details suggest a very differnet story even given his bias. Have you no noticed the vast personal speculation on the events?


    I worked in bars for well over 5 years in a places with experienced drinkers and college freshers away from home. I have seen lots of amazing behaviour. As a door man you would not experience the treatment of barstaff. Unlike doormen barstaff get to see people get progressively drunk and the different moods associated you get to see them sober then drunk generally. Different stages of drunken behaviour over emotional reaction from everybody is very normal and girls cry when drunk more so than when sober. I have never seen a sober girl cry in a shop when the staff have been rude back.

    Crying = lack of control
    Doesn't matter if alcohol was the cause it indicatesshe could have been ripped to shreds by the barmaid. I agree that is possible but as we at least know the girl was rude first maybe she deserved it



    *RANT*
    It really, really bugs me when people rip posts apart like this.
    You selectively tear it apart and dissect every little detail, trying desperately to weaken their argument and strengthen your own.


    I don't mean to add to the Fillspectre/morningstar conspiracy theory, but this is exactly what he used to do and it just drives everyone insane.
    Please Stop!


  • #183
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    FillSpectre wrote:
    I worked in bars for well over 5 years in a places with experienced drinkers and college freshers away from home.

    Tbh, i'm not bothered going through all your points, because i do not see the point. I don't have all day to sit and argue this out with you. The above line pretty much clears everything up for me anyway.

    The fact that you were a bar man, or still are, means you are taking offence to the fact that someone implied a bar man/girl may have mistreated them. It's really that simple.

    The one other point i will touch on is where you said i was arguing with myself. Well done, as you have shown a complete lack of understanding of what i thought i had said pretty clearly.

    Where the hell that i say that a sober girl would burst into tears straight away? THough i should hardly be suprised as you taking your own mis-interpretations as fact seems to be one of your more constant traits.

    My whole point was that a punter with drink is far more likely to react with anger that to cry, regardless of sex, and that is not really a point that can be disputed. On a grand scale, i would say that 90% of people who would react to such a situation as opposed to just let it slide will do so with anger.....about 10%, at most, will be reduced to tears.

    That is why your argument is flawed my friend.

    TO be honest, you just completely proved my point, you are completely letting your emotions cloud your opinions, you see this story as being an attack on bar staff, and as you have a history behind the bar you feel obligated to defend them. No?


  • #184
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Dragan wrote:
    He was never gonna win.....as i already pointed out his main point of "logic" was completely flawed and influenced by personal opinion as opposed to fact, or even experience.

    Thats a pretty shaky foundation to be basing your argument on tbh.

    Your logic being great with the woman cry over more things when sober and one such thing is when they are dissed in a bar?:rolleyes:

    You are just trying to use the words I have used but none of the supporting ideology. Maybe it is true what they say about bouncers as that is support by my experience of what they say.

    Personal experience, logic and science fact support me not opinion that is you with sober girls cry at more things than drunk girls. :p


  • #185
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,191 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    FillSpectre wrote:
    For those that beleive you and question how I read your story let me be clear the bits you fill in on my story are exactley what you are accusing me of. I don't beleive the barmaid got to the manager and gave him a story becasue there is no mention of these events I am only going on basics of given information.
    if you remember correctly i said exactly this...that when my mate went to the bar and asked to speak to the manager the bar girl scarpered downstairs to him (no change in story there!). The duty manager, while speaking to my mate told him that the barmaid said that both of them had been abusive to her (again i have previously said this, no more new additions here). how she determined there was abuse i don't know. They both said one sentence each to her, the girlfriends obviously totally rude behaviour??? and my mate asking to speak to the manager.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    The security appear now to have acted on their own without anybody asking them to escort them out. Security do not remove peacful people unless asked by the staff.
    I never said that the security acted on their own without being asked. Once the manager spoke to his staff he spoke to the security and asked that we be removed. the only action the security did of their own accord was to call for reinforcements because my mate was drinking his drink too slowly for their liking.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    This addition of security company acting independent of the bar is quite unlikely like the rest of the story. Why did he contact the security company in the first place? It is like a episode of Lost or something with a new piece of the story revealed.
    as i said, and have said, the security acted on what the management told them. i have stated that we had no qualms originally with the security, as they were just doing their job based on what they were told. the fact that we had to endure an embarassing ejection surrounded by bouncers led my girlfriend to take the number of the security firm from one of the bouncers name tags and ring them. She, and I felt that the way which we were removed was down to the security and were unhappy with our treatment. I don't know why you would question this action, as it makes perfect logical sense. If you feel agrieved by your treatment in any situation, whether its in a shop, an office, a pub you would contact the management to address your concerns. no new information has been revealed here. Everything i'm saying here has been said previously.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    You will get people to believe this story but it does not negate the fact your story is obviously bias and exagerated.

    People believe me, because they really have no reason not to. If it was just some story i had invented/exaggerated beyond all proportion to you think i'd be bothered to keep up posting onthe matter. I have more of a life than to spent my time working on pieces of fiction.

    Very well spotted CiaranC by the way, thats some impressive sleuthing :)


  • #186
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    FillSpectre wrote:
    Your logic being great with the woman cry over more things when sober and one such thing is when they are dissed in a bar?:rolleyes:

    Once again you completly mis interpret what is said, and then try and talk like it is fact.

    Find a quote where i say "women cry more when sober than when drunk", you won't because i never said.

    All i did was give a breakdown of the things, that in my experience are more likely to cause a women to cry when sober, and then when drunk. You seem to have taken offence to ME now because i don't agree with your meanderings of the last 7 pages, and quite frankly i am not in the mood to get caught up in one of your "I'm right and your wrong" arguments, because it's total pointless.

    Everything that we are saying her is opion, i say yours in flawed for obvious reasons, you say that mine is flawed because you can't even read my posts right an interpret them.

    If you need me to clarify something then simple ask, don't jump to conclusions about things that i am being very clear in explaining, or just misinterpret them on purpose because you feel it suits you.

    You can say all you want that i said "sober girls cry more" the simple fact is that i didn't, anyone else that wants to read back will see that pretty clearly.

    Now then, either read my replies as they are written, and stop making stuff up, or else just go away dude. No one here seems to care for your opinions at all, and i have tried giving you a fair shot but sadly your childishness begins to bore me.


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  • #187
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    The irony of someone who is obviousy a total fantasist with multiple accounts accusing the OP of inventing this story...

    Oh look, the join date for 'Laslo' is two days after the last activity on the 'MorningStar' account as well. Another amazing coincedence!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=36197

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=76726


  • #188
    ionapaul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    No point arguing with him though, neither MorningStar nor FillSpectre have ever, EVER admitted to making a mistake, being wrong or shown any sign of being convinced by another poster's arguments. Those two unique and individual posters are simply demigods of argumentative brilliance. Though I'd say he (sorry, they) would be good craic to have on your side for a classic drunk-in-the-pub discussion on whether Capt. Kirk or Capt. Picard are the best, or did Ireland lost its spiritual way with the advent of the Celtic Tiger! :)


  • #189
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Dragan wrote:

    TO be honest, you just completely proved my point, you are completely letting your emotions cloud your opinions, you see this story as being an attack on bar staff, and as you have a history behind the bar you feel obligated to defend them. No?

    NO!

    You can decide that I am doing this for barstaff but it means nothing to me as I have not done so for years. I have no emotional involvement on the subject.

    I dislike the mob mentality of just blindly believing anything. This can be vouched for by all the people complaining about how I appear to them to argue for arguments sake but maybe you can't understand that.

    The story simply doesn't sound likely. Does the bit about the security company wanting to buy drinks sound normal to you?

    As a security staff do you think it strange that so many staff were used?

    None of the story adds up palinand simple

    Your long winded rant about crying effects was pointless all you needed to say is you think drunk people get angry first rather than cry. Now my experience says different depending on how drunk and normal behaviour. I would think the girl would cry k and the BF would be overly aggressive as normal alcohol behaviour without be plastered. Now as that is normal behaviour on acohol in my eyes in many similar situations it has become my experience. Now for some reason it seems to be a common sort movie,sicom,novel and any other media standard view of the effects of alcohol on the different sexs. In other words I am not making it up yet your explanation of alcohol making all people aggressive as first reaction only matches up at the really drunk which you might see when they are leaving and getting kicked out. You miss the other stages


  • #190
    TomCo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭TomCo


    FillSpectre wrote:
    NO!

    I'm melting, meltttttting.....

    It really makes you seem small and petty to pick apart someones story like that, for me, threads on after hours are presented for their entertainment value.

    I do believe the OP (no matter how much that may annoy you, which I don't understand) but even if I didn't I wouldn't go and pick apart his story like that. Let people make up their own minds and stop being a prick.


  • #191
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    FillSpectre wrote:
    The story simply doesn't sound likely. Does the bit about the security company wanting to buy drinks sound normal to you?

    It depends entirely on the situation, if it is all true, and they have a savvy manager then yes, i would believe it. I have seen stranger things done by security companies in the past to cover mistakes they or pub management may have made.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    As a security staff do you think it strange that so many staff were used?

    Yes i do, but that all depends entirely upon what call was put out on the radio. A hyperactive doorman or an overeager manager may have just put out an all bodies call, so yes, everyone would have shown up. If i showed up and i saw 4 people sitting there surrounded by loads of doormen i would have sent all the lads away bar myself. I would see no point in having them there.

    However i have seen this done in the past and i dealt with it the way i described above. Miss calls situations are the bane of my life on doors. I hate them, and i deal with anyone who calls one accordingly.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    None of the story adds up palinand simple

    Does it matter....you don't believe it then cool, i don't think you will convert anyone dude.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    In other words I am not making it up yet your explanation of alcohol making all people aggressive as first reaction only matches up at the really drunk which you might see when they are leaving and getting kicked out. You miss the other stages

    Once again, where did i say that they would get aggressive first? I said "more likely to be aggressive than emotional" and i said "people who react to it instead of just ignore it."

    Don't assume that doormen stand out on the door all night and have no clue what happens inside.

    I never worked a pub or a club where i did not know who was showing up for work with drink or other things in them, where i did not know what barmen were handing our free drinks or short changing punters on their change, or where i did not know which manager or staff member liked the coke and was happy to deal it.

    A clever head doorman knows everything, and a good head doorman will change what he can change, whenever he can change it.

    Like i said, don't assume that i have no seen or am not aware of the stages that punters go through over the course of a night. I am also hugely aware of the stages that a barman or bargirl will go through, as i'm sure you are.

    One last thing, i don;t want to sit here and argue and do a "my experience vs your experience thing" , we are both adults and we are both perfectly entitled to our opions. I would doubt i will change yours, and i know that you won't change mine so to continue is largely pointless.

    However, i would ask you to show me the same respect that i am showing you in replying to your points and not misquoting you.

    Like i said, if something is not clear, then simply tell me and i will expand the point.


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  • #192
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Dragan wrote:
    Once again you completly mis interpret what is said, and then try and talk like it is fact.
    You claimed there are 2 reason for drunk people to cry and 4 for sober grils to cry. YOu may not have said directly that sober girls cry more but you did say it or implied it if you would prefer that word.

    I take offense to how you spoke to me not because you disagree.

    I have not jumped to conclusions I stated what you were implying.

    Your obvious reason for my flawed logic aren't obvious and as you are willing to clarify please do. You could also answer question when asked as avoidence tends to make me believe you are unable to answer the question to suit your version of events.

    I have read your reply but you don't read mine or understand that when I say you are saying drunk girls cry lover less reasons I am corect as you did say it just not so concicely.


  • #193
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    FillSpectre wrote:
    You claimed there are 2 reason for drunk people to cry and 4 for sober grils to cry. YOu may not have said directly that sober girls cry more but you did say it or implied it if you would prefer that word.

    Really, i said "there are only two reasons that drubnk girls cry"??? I don't think so. I said "in my experience, there are NORMALLY two main reasons why drunk girls will cry" and they gave a few things that i find will set off sober people. I did not say these were listed in order of likelihood either, once again that is a conclussion you came to yourself.

    Did you really expect me to list out every possible reason or situation, that i my opinion might set off a drunk girl or a sober girl???

    Get real buddy, your reaching so far now for something to argue about i'm suprised you haven't dislocated your shoulders.

    My "reason" behind saying your "logic" is flawed is pretty simple.....you seem to assume that someone crying in a pub would be because of too much booze.

    I would maintain that only a very small percentage of people who go into a pub will be the type of people who will cry with too much drink in them. Of all the people who go into a pub from opening to closing, the amount of would be this emotionally fragile would be pretty small.

    Then we need to factor in how many of them would get so drunk as to cry over nothing, and not be noticed by bar staff and reported to security or noted by security themsevles before this point. If you are drunk enough to cry over nothing then you are drunk enough to be spotted.

    Now then, so have the much higher percentage or perfectly normal people, who go into a pub from opening to closing and don't actually drink themselves to the point of tears.

    As there are, in my opinion, far more of these in any given pub throughout the course of a business day the net hours that any pub has emotional stable people in it vs emotional unstable people in it is highly in favour of the stable crowd.

    Also due to the higher total hours the pub would be occupied by stable people the chance is that when you seen someone crying, the will be pretty sober, normally emotionally stable and have just received some kind of bad news.

    I know that is pretty crazt thinking but hey, i guess i just assume that crying means some is upset as opposed to drunk, even if they are in a pub.


  • #194
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    spacecoyote wrote:
    if you remember correctly i said exactly this...
    No you said this
    spacecoyote wrote:
    Obviously enough, her boyfriend wasn't too impressed with seeing his girlfriend upset. He went up to the bar and asked the girl could he speak to the duty manager. (at this point i would like to point out that no-one was particularly drunk as we were relatively late going out). The bargrill scowled at my mate and went downstairs. At which point two lounge girls came up to my mate and asked him what his problem was. He said "I'm not speaking with you about it, i am waiting to speak to the manager". At this point he was brought downstairs to see the manager, who had been told by his barstaff that she had been harassed and abused by him & his girlfriend.

    You have no changed this story to and included a new line and after speaking to manager down satirs the manager decided your friend was abusive. NOTE AFTER SPEAKING TO HIM HE FELT YOUR FRIEND WAS ABUSIVE NOT SOLELY ON BARSTAFF HEARSAY Can you think why?

    By the way your description of how your friend spoke to the girls is also rude but staff should be used to it
    spacecoyote wrote:
    I never said that the security acted on their own without being asked. Once the manager spoke to his staff he spoke to the security and asked that we be removed. the only action the security did of their own accord was to call for reinforcements because my mate was drinking his drink too slowly for their liking.

    You and your friends refused to leave as told and were drunk just not particularly so. You are still non witness to all your speculative and 3rd hand information. YOu did say the barmaid got your firends kick out but rhe manager after speaking to your friend decided to kick them out. If you friend had been cailm, patient and polite he would not have been kicked out that simple.
    spacecoyote wrote:
    Everything i'm saying here has been said previously.

    Yes but it changed as you told it as I would say has your memeory of the occasion and that of your friends retelling. You add new details to it all the time
    spacecoyote wrote:
    People believe me, because they really have no reason not to. If it was just some story i had invented/exaggerated beyond all proportion to you think i'd be bothered to keep up posting onthe matter. I have more of a life than to spent my time working on pieces of fiction.

    Actually people don't beleive you as there is no reason to and that the story doesn't hang together.
    spacecoyote wrote:
    Very well spotted CiaranC by the way, thats some impressive sleuthing :)
    Not really as he is wrong but at least it is a logical arguement I asked the mods to look into it as I can't see these details that appear to prove he is right


  • #195
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Dragan wrote:
    My "reason" behind saying your "logic" is flawed is pretty simple.....you seem to assume that someone crying in a pub would be because of too much booze.
    Sorry weren't you complaining about me not reading your posts?

    Becasue if you look back I think you will find I keep mentioning crying over such a small slight could indicate being drunk. I may have clarrified how drunk people cry but I never said becasue she cried she was drunk I didn't even imply it.
    I gave more than one reason for such behaviour which I think are:
    1) Lack of emotional control
    2) Manipulation
    3) Lack of emotional control induced by alcohol

    I would also like to point out the OP sates "at this point i would like to point out that no-one was particularly drunk"

    So they were drunk just not in their impaired view "particularly" so.

    So the logic that the girl may have been drunk enough to lose control isn't amazingly flawed just taken the facts and the reaction paired togeher suggest a likely issue. I think I also suggested crying like that was a sign of a weak character but feel free to actually read the thread before jumping to conclusions.


  • #196
    Keith C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭Keith C


    Fillspectre, I hope you dont work in a bar anymore, you sound like an angry person who hates when people disagree with you chill out dude:cool:


  • #197
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Keith C wrote:
    Fillspectre, I hope you dont work in a bar anymore, you sound like an angry person who hates when people disagree with you chill out dude:cool:
    You see your problem there is you are assuming it is a becasue they disagree with me. It isn't because they disagree with me it is the silly cliams and manner of exageration I dislike. The issue is unimportant to me and it does not get me angry.


  • #198
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Sure, you never implied it, not even once. ;)
    FillSpectre wrote:
    It then goes on the fact the girl lost control of herself (drink fuel or general weakness of character)

    Also i would hardly say that crying like that is a sign of weak character. How are we to know what else is going on with the girl?

    Maybe she is under huge strain in work, college or at home???? Like i said, you jump to your own conclusions dude.


  • #199
    Draupnir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Draupnir


    FillSpectre wrote:
    You see your problem there is you are assuming it is a becasue they disagree with me. It isn't because they disagree with me it is the silly cliams and manner of exageration I dislike. The issue is unimportant to me and it does not get me angry.

    Christ man, you need to learn to spell.


  • #200
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,191 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    FillSpectre wrote:
    No you said this


    You have no changed this story to and included a new line and after speaking to manager down satirs the manager decided your friend was abusive. NOTE AFTER SPEAKING TO HIM HE FELT YOUR FRIEND WAS ABUSIVE NOT SOLELY ON BARSTAFF HEARSAY Can you think why?


    You and your friends refused to leave as told and were drunk just not particularly so. You are still non witness to all your speculative and 3rd hand information. YOu did say the barmaid got your firends kick out but rhe manager after speaking to your friend decided to kick them out. If you friend had been cailm, patient and polite he would not have been kicked out that simple.


    Yes but it changed as you told it as I would say has your memeory of the occasion and that of your friends retelling. You add new details to it all the time



    Actually people don't beleive you as there is no reason to and that the story doesn't hang together.

    Not really as he is wrong but at least it is a logical arguement I asked the mods to look into it as I can't see these details that appear to prove he is right

    when did this change from a thread about peoples nights being spoilt to the everyone is a liar and invents stories thread???

    I didn't say that after speaking to my mate downstairs the manager decided he was abusive to staff. i said that the barmaid went downstairs and told the manager they were abusive to her. The manager had already spoken to security when my mate went downstairs and spoke to him. if you read my update you will see that,, the words from the security chiefs mouth to my GF was that the manager said at no point were any of us aggressive or abusive towards him.

    We never at any point refused to leave. We were told by security that we could finish our drinks and then leave & this is exactly what we did. Just because we didn't pour our drinks straight down our throat do you constitute that to be refusal to leave.

    As i said the bouncer had already been told to get us to leave before my friend had spoken to the manager. When my mate was down with him, rather than create a scene he said that ok we would finish our drinks and leave, not because we had done anything wrong, but there was no point in arguing the case with them at this stage as the manager/bouncer had already formed an opinion based on what the bargirl said to him, and to finish our drinks and walk out was better than to get into an argument and be thrown out the door.

    which is the point of my original post. we were forced into a situation where we were ejected from a bar, for an incident which should have been cleared up in seconds by the manager and as such our night was ruined.

    there have been about 3/4 people including yourself (& possibly only yourself) who have claimed that i am making this story up so i would say that people, on the whole do believe me.

    I'm completely fed up with your incessant nonsense at this stage and i am no longer going to justify your posts with a response.


  • #201
    TomCo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭TomCo


    Can we take this to The Thunderdome?

    Even as a spin off thread.


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  • #202
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    TomCo wrote:
    Can we take this to The Thunderdome?

    Even as a spin off thread.

    I avoid the Thunderdome to be honest, i find myself being very cruel when there is really no need.:eek:


  • #203
    Lothaar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭Lothaar


    If somebody posts an interesting story on here, I doubt they are expecting to be cross-examined. If there are a couple of tiny inconsistencies in the retelling of the story, when it is challenged, that must be forgiven.

    FillSpectre is challenging the likelihood of a lot of the story as some of it sounds unbelieveable. I think the OP's point is that it was unbelievable, but it happened nevertheless.

    Besides, if the OP's version of events is slightly stilted - for instance, maybe they weren't as compltely polite as he made out - it does not mean the whole story is a fabrication and it doesn't suggest that his friends were at fault. That's the difference between taking the story with a pinch of salt and beating the hell out of the storyteller with a large bag of salt.


  • #204
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Dragan wrote:
    Sure, you never implied it, not even once. ;)

    Put up where I implied it then. The bit you quoted has an "or" there saying it is a possible casue.
    Dragan wrote:
    Also i would hardly say that crying like that is a sign of weak character. How are we to know what else is going on with the girl?

    Maybe she is under huge strain in work, college or at home???? Like i said, you jump to your own conclusions dude.

    Well if it is manipulation I do and if it is constant I also think it is a sign of weak character. That is opinion you are entitled to yours and I to mine.

    I don't see you saying sorry for being wrong there. It is clearly sated in post 1 on this thread they were drunk. WE know the gril was crying so she could just be ahte crying type.

    My experience is people who are under strain tend to be rude to others and those who are drunk can swing moods very easily due to frustration.

    It is logical to assume a drunk girl frustrated with service will be rude. Now if you want to add she was also under stress (which we don't know) I would say she is more likely to be rude. Either way after being rude and getting a rude response such a person is likely to over react say by crying (I think men tend to get angrier but woman do tend to get upset more).

    So what exactley is my obviously flawed logic again?

    As I have repetedly pointed out the story as told doesn't hang togehter and goes in the face of logic and normal human behaviour. You can't even point out the "obvious" flaws .


  • #205
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,191 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    well i reckon the topic itself doesn't belong in the thunderdome, as it is (was to begin with) one that is appropriate in AH if you ask me. but maybe some of the posting thats gone on does???


  • #206
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,191 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    FillSpectre wrote:
    goes in the face of logic and normal human behaviour.

    my exact point, what happened to us defied logic and normal human behaviour. just because it doesn't fit in within the realms of what you class to be as normality does not mean it couldn't have possibly happened

    (had to get one final reply to one of his points in, as it should maybe help him recognise the justification for my annoyance at the fact it all happened in the 1st place)


  • #207
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    FillSpectre wrote:
    Lets clarrify
    1 The time is an issue and points out a likely exageration
    its not really. the important thing is that people who came after were served before. i wouldn't care about waiting a long time at a busy bar as long as i wasn't being purposely ignored.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    2. What is quoted as saying is rude and smart arsed regardless of tone
    even if we assume it was rude, which we can't, she would have a right to be rude after being ignored and having the barmaid let many people skip the queue
    FillSpectre wrote:
    3. No perhaps about it is is excessive and shows a lack of emotional control. It suggestes being drunk also
    you don't deal with women much do you? women can be like this whether they've had a drink or not. and that's kind of beside the point anyway. being drunk in a club that serves drink isn't reason to be kicked out. they were kicked out for being abusive and they weren't
    FillSpectre wrote:
    4. We do not know the manager was told anything of the sort this is pure fabrication and/or assumption
    you're assuming everything he's saying is a lie. he said the manager had been told they were being abusive. its only a fabrication if you assuming he's making it all up
    FillSpectre wrote:
    5. The were asked to leave more than once after a discussion with the manager that we are unaware of its content.
    we are aware of large parts of it becausae he told us what was said. again the only problem arises if we assume he's lieing. also, you weren't there. i still find it odd that you think you know what happened better than the OP
    FillSpectre wrote:
    Rather than assume sober people doing their job set out to victimise people due to one barmaid it makes more sense the girl who can't control her emotions said something rude and was compounded by her BF and they were all asked to leave. You see one requires massive illogical conspiracy and one is normal human behaviour in a bar.
    here's an idea: maybe the people in the bar are like you. maybe they instantly assumed they were drunk people out to cause a scene and quickly motioned them out.

    it doesn't take a massive illogical jump because you're behaving pretty much the same way as a bouncer who kicks people out for no reason. imagine you were the bouncer. he's told you his story and you refuse to believe it. the idea that they'd be kicked out for it isn't so unbelievable now is it?

    also, they weren't just "asked to leave". it was said that they were being abusive.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    1. You made up facts that nobody including the OP can state for sure
    which facts? and that doesn't answer my question. i was presenting a scenario which would fit the facts as he has given them to show that its not completely unbelievable. i asked you what is so unbelievable about it. you haven't answered
    FillSpectre wrote:
    3. You freely accept and suggest he has exagerated. Normal people take offense to being told they are in the wrong whether they are in the wrong or not. He isn't actively lying he believes his account but he is also changing it to match his account and throwing in theories of what must have happened. E.g. the bar staff are sexist, barmaid must have ran to the bouncers to get them kick out

    i said he might have, i don't "freely accept that he has".

    and you're one to talk about "throwing in theories". i refer you to the comment about the emotional girl above and pretty much your whole argument


    he didn't say the barmaid ran to the bouncers. the barmaid went to get the manager and of course explained her side of the story on the way.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    5. Girl returned crying changed to she wasn't crying untill the boyfriend asked her what was wrong.
    [sarcasm]well, the time the girl started crying has moved by a minute. that clearly invalidates everything he's saying, completely changes the spirit of the story and shows him to be a filthy liar[/sarcasm]
    FillSpectre wrote:
    6. Your personal issue with a work collegue has tainted your view of the facts People question an obviously exaggerated and biased story that seems to change when pushed. What is your issue with? YOu seem to have confused some of the speculative details added with what has been said for sure
    my personal issue hasn't tainted anything. someone posted on the net how he was mistreated in a bar and you set on a personal crusade to show him to be a liar despite the fact that you weren't there, have no idea what happened and are pretty much doing everything you're accusing him of doing (i.e. maknig up a story to fit your idea that they were drunk and abusive and the bar people weren't at fault). what the hell is your problem? why is it so hard to believe that the bar maid was a bitch and the bouncers didn't want any trouble.
    FillSpectre wrote:
    You don't get it do you
    I am Fill Spectre and not the other people. It is actually really sad that people can't get it through their thick skulls I am not the other people. I am not on my own and either or they. A bit of mature logical thinking can see that this story is nonscience.
    What is really creepy is the insistance that only one person can talk like me becasue I disagree with the masses.
    The mods can check the IP addresses to check who is who just report me and you will see you are wrong. I am sure there are ways and means around this but I assure you I don't know them.

    maybe they think you're a liar the same way you're calling the OP a liar, i.e. for absolutely no reason. and i'd be more inclined to believe you have two accounts than the OP has fabricated a story to villify the club



    here's a sequence of events which doesn't require a massive leap. please explain why this can't possibly be true:

    1. the barmaid was ignoring her as several people on the thread said has happend because she's a bitch

    2. the girl asked, possibly though not necessarily snappily, if she was going to be served

    3. the girl, being a bitch, gave a bitchy reply that upset the girl

    4. the boyf approached the barmaid and asked to speak to the manager

    5. the barmaid, either being a bitch or not wanting to get into trouble, says they were being abusive when she goes to get the manager and the bouncers are called to remove them

    you say the story is completely unbelievable but that chain of events fits the facts and is quite believable. can you say for sure that its not?

    and for that matter can you say anything for sure since you weren't there?


  • #208
    FillSpectre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭FillSpectre


    Lothaar wrote:
    If somebody posts an interesting story on here, I doubt they are expecting to be cross-examined. If there are a couple of tiny inconsistencies in the retelling of the story, when it is challenged, that must be forgiven.

    FillSpectre is challenging the likelihood of a lot of the story as some of it sounds unbelieveable. I think the OP's point is that it was unbelievable, but it happened nevertheless.

    Besides, if the OP's version of events is slightly stilted - for instance, maybe they weren't as compltely polite as he made out - it does not mean the whole story is a fabrication and it doesn't suggest that his friends were at fault. That's the difference between taking the story with a pinch of salt and beating the hell out of the storyteller with a large bag of salt.

    Fair points but...

    Not quite I see the OP as an attempt to bad mouth a place because he feels personally slighted not a telling of an amazing adveture

    His account of the story has gapping holes in it and while everything aquires a certain flair in retelling the changing of details is different and the additon of belief is fundemnetally flawed.

    The insistance that his friends were not rude in his absense and that the staff were conspiring around them is wishful thinking. I know he is not lying as such as this is normal human behaviour.

    I do not beleive the story about the security company point blank but apparently the only other person who thinks teh same is meant to be me as well.;)


  • #209
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    FillSpectre wrote:
    So what exactley is my obviously flawed logic again?

    Dude, i have already pointed out why, in my opinion, your logic is flawed. If you do not want to accept my reasoning then cool, that your business. But you are not the type to accept ANYTHING really, so i am not to worried about that.

    And if you are going to try and say that giving a "possible cause" is not an implication then you really are just taking the piss dude.

    I love the way i can post something and you claim i have "implied" something ( like the way i seem have posted the sober girls only cry for two reasons ) but when the theory is reversed, the rules change.

    This is getting very old, very fast dude.

    You don;t believe the story, i'm fairly certain that 87% of people don't give a ****!!! ;)


  • #210
    HelterSkelter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    Will the real MorningStar/FillSpectre please stand up, LOL


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  • #211
    HelterSkelter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    MorningStar/FillSpectre wrote:
    You see your problem there is you are assuming it is a becasue they disagree with me. It isn't because they disagree with me it is the silly cliams and manner of exageration I dislike. The issue is unimportant to me and it does not get me angry.
    Not important to you...and you have made how many posts on it? How long have you spent posting on this issue today? :rolleyes:


This discussion has been closed.
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