Tricolour burnt on bonfire in North

Surrender · 12-07-2006 05:40PM

LOL:D , class. Its me Ian Paisley using reverse psychology

ShiverinEskimo · 12-07-2006 05:59PM

zoro wrote:

If I, as an Irish person, were to burn an Irish flag, would that still be a symbol of hatred towards Ireland? Would it be disrespectful? Do I have a duty as an Irish citizen not to burn the Irish flag?

Yes - Flag Desecration is illegal here.

Pigman II · 12-07-2006 05:59PM

ravenhead wrote:

Tricolour burnt on bonfire in North

That's terrible news. Was it an expensive flag?

scojones · 12-07-2006 06:12PM

julep wrote:

does the burning of the Irish flag actually bother anyone?

personally, i couldn't give a flying fu(k if these idiots got every flag in this country and burnt them.

It doesn't bother me right now. I mean, I'm just using my computer in my house, but if I was walking down the street and saw someone doing it I imagine I'd be fairly annoyed.

ShiverinEskimo · 12-07-2006 06:16PM

Pigman II wrote:

That's terrible news. Was it an expensive flag?

If you had read the whole original post you would have seen that it wasn't the burning of the flag that was the issue it was the fact that the young McIlveen fellas name was on the flag to be burnt:

ravenhead wrote:

An Irish tricolour insulting a Northern Irish sectarian murder victim has been placed on top of a bonfire in Co Antrim.

The name of 15-year-old Catholic murder victim Michael McIlveen was on a flag due to be burned at the Eleventh night loyalist bonfire in Ahoghill.

The message said: “F*** Mickey Bo”, the dead teenager’s nickname.

smashey · 12-07-2006 06:21PM

zoro wrote:

No, by burning it, they're burning a piece of cloth.
It's nothing more, nothing less.

However, if you automatically presume that they're doing it simply to annoy Irish 'patriots' (I use the term loosely - as I believe patriotism is a joke at best anyway), then you're just buying into the notion that somehow, a piece of cloth with 3 distinct colours plastered across it holds some magical properties.

It doesn't. It's cloth.

Well if it is only cloth, then why are they so specific in their choice?

You should realise that when these people burn our flag, they know exactly what they are burning and the message it sends out.

homah_7ft · 12-07-2006 06:23PM

Complete scumbags obviously. To insult the boy like that is disgusting.

Pigman II · 12-07-2006 06:28PM

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

If you had read the whole original post you would have seen that it wasn't the burning of the flag that was the issue it was the fact that the young McIlveen fellas name was on the flag to be burnt:

No I read the original post. You see I have this warped ideolgy whereby killing someone is the final damaging act you can commit upon them and anything after that is just white-noise designed to annoy those still left and stupid enough to let themselves get annoyed.

antSionnach · 12-07-2006 06:31PM

LovelyHurling wrote:

Burning the Irish flag was petty and disrespectful. But it would be a shame if people let that become the issue here, and ignore the real disrespect, and that is not to irish people, but to the McIlveen family. The insult to their dead son will hurt much deeper than any assumed tribal symbolic offense.

As Julep said these people are just looking for attention. It isnt about politics its about scumbags, and Ive no doubt it has nothing to do with the nationalist or unionist cause

Shiverineskimo

If you had read the whole original post you would have seen that it wasn't the burning of the flag that was the issue it was the fact that the young McIlveen fellas name was on the flag to be burnt:

these are 2 very important points. Im an Irishman, a very proud Irishman, Ive had relatives in the old IRA (ie the really old one!) and I have many nationalist opinions. But ffs I think the lad who was murdered deserves more respect than a bit of dyed cloth does.

get over it, the burned flag doesnt matter

Angels · 12-07-2006 06:31PM

Trying to insult a person who's dead will come back to haunt these 'Scumbags'. Burning the 'Irish flag' is another issue it's insulting the whole of Ireland as a country, what we stand for, our beliefs etc need i go on.

These scumbags should be put on top of the bonfire & see how they like it then, probably sh**e themselves or pee there pants. Thats more like it. I'm evil i know.

On a more serious note like a few boardsters have already stated, we should ignore these guys as they are only looking for attention & are trying to stirr up shi*e in the North again.

antSionnach · 12-07-2006 06:35PM

Angels wrote:

On a more serious note like a few boardsters have already stated, we should ignore these guys as they are only looking for attention & are trying to stirr up shi*e in the North again.

Ya so to prevent that from happening lets put them on a bonfire until they wet themselves in dread??? :rolleyes:

Northern ireland. Just Go away.

Diogenes · 12-07-2006 06:37PM

smashey wrote:

Well if it is only cloth, then why are they so specific in their choice?

You should realise that when these people burn our flag, they know exactly what they are burning and the message it sends out.

And getting outraged about it you play into their hands.

The flag is a symbol, and a symbol has exactly as much value as you decide to give it, too often do people get worked up over symbols and lose sight of what truly matters.

Fair play to the poster who expressed his sympathises to the family, they're the people suffering.

Zoro is right a flag is just a piece of cloth, a piece of cloth that just happens to mean so much to some of you you cared more about the fact that it burned, rather than focus on the family of a murdered man.

Ohyeah · 12-07-2006 06:42PM

There is a pic of the sick bonfire here :mad:

www.dailyireland.com

but as I said on another thread in the front page Daily Ireland story today there is a DUP local councillor I think who says it is horrible that the loyalists are using Michael McIlveen name like this. Horrible though:mad:

Mr.Nice Guy · 12-07-2006 06:43PM

Diogenes wrote:

And getting outraged about it you play into their hands.

The flag is a symbol, and a symbol has exactly as much value as you decide to give it, too often do people get worked up over symbols and lose sight of what truly matters.

On the contrary, I think if you devalue the importance of the flag's symbolism then you are playing into their hands.

Just because these arseholes choose to disrespect our national flag doesn't mean we should follow suit.

Turning a blind eye to rampant bigotry doesn't make it go away. You have to confront it head on so people acknowledge it's out of order.

Angels · 12-07-2006 06:45PM

Ever heard of sarcasim darling hehe!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 12-07-2006 06:50PM

all we have to do is just boo NI sports teams whenever we see them on tv... it's pretty simple.

smashey · 12-07-2006 06:51PM

Diogenes wrote:

And getting outraged about it you play into their hands.

The flag is a symbol, and a symbol has exactly as much value as you decide to give it, too often do people get worked up over symbols and lose sight of what truly matters.

Fair play to the poster who expressed his sympathises to the family, they're the people suffering.

Zoro is right a flag is just a piece of cloth, a piece of cloth that just happens to mean so much to some of you you cared more about the fact that it burned, rather than focus on the family of a murdered man.

Symbolism? Nobody does symbolism better than the loyalists. My point was that they knew exactly what they were doing.

This must be a terrible experience for the McIlveen family.

daveirl · 12-07-2006 07:00PM

This post has been deleted.

LovelyHurling · 12-07-2006 07:01PM

Mordeth wrote:

all we have to do is just boo NI sports teams whenever we see them on tv... it's pretty simple.

You must be a real sportsman:rolleyes:

Its not an NI or unionist issue Mordeth its about scumbags

daveirl · 12-07-2006 07:03PM

This post has been deleted.

Diogenes · 12-07-2006 07:19PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

On the contrary, I think if you devalue the importance of the flag's symbolism then you are playing into their hands.

What? Have you never even see a couple of bullies running around with someone's lunch, throwing it to each other. As soon as their victim does the clever thing and just ignores them they go "meh" get bored and walk away.

Its the same mentality with these people, they're doing this to get a rise out of you, you're playing into their hands.

Just because these arseholes choose to disrespect our national flag doesn't mean we should follow suit.

How am I suggesting anyone disrespect the flag?

I'm merely pointing out its a symbol and a symbol is just symbolic. Too many people invest too much into these symbols. I'm proud of my culture and my heritage and I don't need a piece of cloth to make me feel better about it, or "more irish". Again its focusing on the trappings and not the real issues.

Turning a blind eye to rampant bigotry doesn't make it go away. You have to confront it head on so people acknowledge it's out of order.

You mean the rampant bigotry which led to this child being murdered? See I think that's a bigger deal than whether they burn a flag or not. There are real battles to fight and real issues to tackle, instead people get het up and outraged over a "flag"

Symbolism? Nobody does symbolism better than the loyalists. My point was that they knew exactly what they were doing.

And my point is you win when you announce "We're bigger and better people than you, we don't need a flag to tell us who we are"

WhiteWashMan · 12-07-2006 07:30PM

blah blah blah they di this and we did that and then they did this and then we did that ad infinitum....

same story, different day.

who cares?

zoro · 12-07-2006 07:57PM

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Yes - Flag Desecration is illegal here.

Not quite what I asked ....

zoro wrote:

If I, as an Irish person, were to burn an Irish flag, would that still be a symbol of hatred towards Ireland? Would it be disrespectful? Do I have a duty as an Irish citizen not to burn the Irish flag?

What's the difference between me burning the Irish flag, and a non Irish person doing it?

My point is that it is just a flag. It's cloth and no more than that. I didn't actually know that flag desecration was illegal though, but I do think that it's a ridiculous law. It goes against free speech and freedom of expression.

ShiverinEskimo · 12-07-2006 08:37PM

You have a duty to uphold the law as a citizen of Ireland and therefore, yes, I would say you do have a duty not to burn the Irish flag. Freedom of speech/expression is all very well until that person's freedom becomes another person's insult. Burning a flag is a gesture of hatred toward what that flag represents. Saying a nation's flag is just cloth is like saying the shroud of turin is just cloth or saying rosary beads are just wood and metal.

But as has been said all this is besides the point - the flag burning isn't what I'm worried about - its the fact they chose to insult an innocent 15 year old murder victim in the process.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 12-07-2006 08:38PM

uh.. the shroud of turin is just cloth.. it was proved to be a fake quite a while ago now.

Mr.Nice Guy · 12-07-2006 08:42PM

Diogenes wrote:

What? Have you never even see a couple of bullies running around with someone's lunch, throwing it to each other. As soon as their victim does the clever thing and just ignores them they go "meh" get bored and walk away.

Its the same mentality with these people, they're doing this to get a rise out of you, you're playing into their hands.

That's very twisted logic. If a kid is getting bullied at school the solution isn't to ignore it. You inform someone, teacher or parent, who confronts the bullies and the bullying stops. That's how it works in the real world.

Diogenes wrote:

How am I suggesting anyone disrespect the flag?

You are suggesting we ignore the disrespect they show to our flag which will only serve for this disrespect to continue.

Diogenes wrote:

I'm merely pointing out its a symbol and a symbol is just symbolic. Too many people invest too much into these symbols. I'm proud of my culture and my heritage and I don't need a piece of cloth to make me feel better about it, or "more irish". Again its focusing on the trappings and not the real issues.

But the issue here isn't simply cloth like some napkin, it's what the cloth represents. By burning our flag they are sending out a vile message.

Diogenes wrote:

You mean the rampant bigotry which led to this child being murdered? See I think that's a bigger deal than whether they burn a flag or not. There are real battles to fight and real issues to tackle, instead people get het up and outraged over a "flag"

The child was murdered due to this kind of sectarianism - the kind you want us all to ignore. We need to stop the burning of cultural symbols and promote diversity and tolerance.

When the bigots in Dublin ran amok during the February riots they were widely condemned and I want the same to happen in the North with regard to the scum who decide to burn our flag.

LovelyHurling · 12-07-2006 08:48PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

When the bigots in Dublin ran amok during the February riots they were widely condemned and I want the same to happen in the North with regard to the scum who decide to burn our flag.

who exactly do you think is supporting them??? any reasonable person, were the question put to him, would condemn it.

MNG theres no need to be appalled by the actual flag burning. Its not america ffs. You keep talking about a flag and havent mentioned the dead boy at all.

Symbolism.:rolleyes:

ShiverinEskimo · 12-07-2006 08:49PM

Mordeth wrote:

uh.. the shroud of turin is just cloth.. it was proved to be a fake quite a while ago now.

fair enough - it was an illustration.

(thanks for ****ting all over my point)

solskjaer20 · 12-07-2006 08:50PM

Total disgrace.

What I want to know is, why didn't the RUC take down the ****in flag themselves?

Oh wait, I know, becasue they're a unionist police force, and most of the members probably suppport the erectinjg of the flag.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 12-07-2006 08:53PM

well probably because they weren't breaking any laws by burning a republic flag up north..

it's not the ruc's job to enforce their opinions.

Tricolour burnt on bonfire in North

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