Tricolour burnt on bonfire in North

ravenhead

I don't know if this has been posted up anywhere yet - I've just read this & it makes me sick:

An Irish tricolour insulting a Northern Irish sectarian murder victim has been placed on top of a bonfire in Co Antrim.

The name of 15-year-old Catholic murder victim Michael McIlveen was on a flag due to be burned at the Eleventh night loyalist bonfire in Ahoghill.

The message said: “F*** Mickey Bo”, the dead teenager’s nickname.

Police and Sinn Féin North Antrim Assemblyman Philip McGuigan branded the display a disgrace.

Mr McGuigan said: “The family of this young man have gone through enough this year already without having to hear about these sectarian displays of hatred directed toward their son.

“How could these flags have been permitted to be put up in the Ballymena area?”

Michael was beaten to death by a gang which pursued him through Ballymena last May.

His death sparked heightened community tensions and saw sectarian taunts posted on internet site Bebo.com as well as death threats against two of five Ballymena teenagers charged with his murder.

A police spokesman said they had liaised with community representatives in an effort to have the flag at Ahoghill taken down.

“Police and others in Ballymena District Command Unit are working to reduce sectarianism in the community. This type of disgraceful display only undermines the good work that is being done.”

Hundreds attended Michael’s emotional funeral and there have been appeals for calm as the marching season reaches its height today.

Co Antrim Orange Grand Master Robert McIlroy said: “Within the institution of Co Antrim we have a situation where we want tolerance and we want respect of each other’s cultures and traditions.

“Certainly for the Orange Order in Co Antrim there’s no place for sectarianism or bigotry.”

Ruu_Old

Disturbing news alright. Yeah it has been posted already here.

Terry

nothing new there.

leave them and their mindless bigotry be.
they're just looking for attention and ignoring them will make them go away.
why do you think they have parades every year, if not for attention?
commemoration me arse.

ravenhead

Ruu wrote:

Disturbing news alright. Yeah it has been posted already here.

Thanks Ruu I couldn't find it anywhere, knew something like this wouldn't go unnoticed

Kernel

They're mindless idiots. Whatcha gonna do?

ravenhead

julep wrote:

nothing new there.

leave them and their mindless bigotry be.
they're just looking for attention and ignoring them will make them go away.
why do you think they have parades every year, if not for attention?
commemoration me arse.

Exactly, it's crap like this that's breeding more hatred up the north, There's a whole new generation of them starting to show their heads

LovelyHurling

whatever about burning the tricolour, the insult to Michael McIlveen and his family is completely sick. No doubt avery small minded group of scumbags behind this.

JimmySmith

Ban flags and Football Jerseys in the North. That would go a long way to easing tensions up there.
That and cut N. Ireland off and let it float off into the North Sea.

Sleepy

Smithers, close the border and release the hounds!

Terry

does the burning of the Irish flag actually bother anyone?

personally, i couldn't give a flying fu(k if these idiots got every flag in this country and burnt them.

they just want a bit of attention.

granted, the kids name on the flag was extremely tasteless, but they burn the tricolour on almost every bonfire every year. let them perform their little ritual. they're not really harming anyone.

toomevara

I second all of the above, this level of wilful idiocy is beyond all rational thought and debate....it is mindless provocation of the most base and braindead kind...the only realistic and effective response is to ignore it entirely....

A flag, after all, is nothing more than a piece of cloth, it's the values behind it that make it important, and in the context of the Irish republic that should be pluralism, inclusion and tolerance....lets not descend to their level, it must be utterly, ineffably awful down there, God love them....

The young man who was so brutally slain had friends and admirers drawn from across the community, though this will no doubt hurt his family deeply, they wont allow it to be used as a pretext for more hate and grist to the murder/violence mill that is the staple of life for so many of the dysfunctional emotional illiterates who compose some of the more unsavoury elements of Irish society, north and south!

Kernel

julep wrote:

does the burning of the Irish flag actually bother anyone?

Yeah, it bothers me in the context that they are doing it. It's basically a message that they hate all of us, and our state, for no good reason other than bitterness and a propensity to mindless hatred. Knuckle draggers tbh.

If someone was pissed off with the government or the state for a legitimate reason, burn away and protest. I may not respect that decision, but at least they would have some tangible reason then.

They are bitter individuals, luckily not all Protestants are like that, but in areas of the north the idiots on both sides (sadly) make up a sizeable section.

super_furry

It's nothing new, that kind of sick ****e has been going on, on both sides for decades up there.

ravenhead

julep wrote:

does the burning of the Irish flag actually bother anyone?

personally, i couldn't give a flying fu(k if these idiots got every flag in this country and burnt them.

they just want a bit of attention.

granted, the kids name on the flag was extremely tasteless, but they burn the tricolour on almost every bonfire every year. let them perform their little ritual. they're not really harming anyone.

it's the thoughts behind the burning of that flag that bothers me, & also the fact that if the tables were turned & someone had burnt the union jack like that it would be debated in the house of lords & be all over sky news!! Why should we 'HAVE' to put up with it because they do it every year???

zoro

but ... it's only a flag .... nothing more than a dye'd piece of cloth

smashey

zoro wrote:

but ... it's only a flag .... nothing more than a dye'd piece of cloth

It may be only a piece of cloth, but it is our flag and a symbol of our country. By burning it, the bigots are sending a clear message as to what they think of us.

Funsterdelux

They re probably the same crowd who were buying tricolours and wrapping them around them at the recent Nobbie Williams concert in Croke Park.

zoro

smashey wrote:

It may be only a piece of cloth, but it is our flag and a symbol of our country. By burning it, the bigots are sending a clear message as to what they think of us.

No, by burning it, they're burning a piece of cloth.
It's nothing more, nothing less.

However, if you automatically presume that they're doing it simply to annoy Irish 'patriots' (I use the term loosely - as I believe patriotism is a joke at best anyway), then you're just buying into the notion that somehow, a piece of cloth with 3 distinct colours plastered across it holds some magical properties.

It doesn't. It's cloth.

biko

Co Antrim Orange Grand Master Robert McIlroy wrote:

“Within the institution of Co Antrim we have a situation where we want tolerance and we want respect of each other’s cultures and traditions.

“Certainly for the Orange Order in Co Antrim there’s no place for sectarianism or bigotry.”

Roysh... and by rebranding it 'Orangefest' they think Taigs will be more inclined to celebrate Ol' Billy?

Mr.Nice Guy

zoro wrote:

No, by burning it, they're burning a piece of cloth.
It's nothing more, nothing less.

However, if you automatically presume that they're doing it simply to annoy Irish 'patriots' (I use the term loosely - as I believe patriotism is a joke at best anyway), then you're just buying into the notion that somehow, a piece of cloth with 3 distinct colours plastered across it holds some magical properties.

It doesn't. It's cloth.

What rubbish. It's nothing to do with the cloth having magical properties, it's a matter of respect.

It's the same with a national anthem. You sing it proudly not because you believe it has "magical properties" but because it is a part of your identity.

The fools who boo national anthems show a complete lack of respect - in the same way these morons who burned our flag show disrespect.

They're sending out a message. You say:

No, by burning it, they're burning a piece of cloth.
It's nothing more, nothing less.

You are in effect condoning their actions by writing that. It's not like they have decided to burn a napkin. They have decided to burn a flag which is important to a group of people who happen to inhabit the same bit of land that they do.

GAAman

zoro wrote:

but ... it's only a flag .... nothing more than a dye'd piece of cloth

Ok lets all chip in and buy zoro some "ignorance be gone" spray.

Seriously though how the hell can you say its only a piece of cloth??! How many people died for that "piece of cloth" man?!

You might not have the same beliefs or have the same viewpoint on the flag but give it the respect it deserves ffs!

And keepin on track with op it doesnt surprise me this happened you can only hope those same sick scumbags get whats comin to them

zoro

GAAman wrote:

Ok lets all chip in and buy zoro some "ignorance be gone" spray.

Seriously though how the hell can you say its only a piece of cloth??! How many people died for that "piece of cloth" man?!

You might not have the same beliefs or have the same viewpoint on the flag but give it the respect it deserves ffs!

And keepin on track with op it doesnt surprise me this happened you can only hope those same sick scumbags get whats comin to them

Ignorance be gone? Funny ...

I could understand the affiliation you feel to the flag if there was, in fact, a physical flag under attack somewhere, which led to an army of men defending said flag. THEY would be giving their lives for that flag.
I've never understood how people can become so attached to a flag, but I do understand that it's an extremely emotive topic.

Also, this probably isn't suitable for AH...

whippet

there are sick scumbags everywhere and use emotive language and symbols to inflict pain.

What about the Cork supporters who were shouting 'who is your daddy' at Colin Cooper in the Munster final last sunday (Cooper's father passed away a few weeks ago).

People in all walks of life use these sick messages, it's not just the loyalists.

darkman2

GAAman wrote:

Ok lets all chip in and buy zoro some "ignorance be gone" spray.

Seriously though how the hell can you say its only a piece of cloth??! How many people died for that "piece of cloth" man?!

You might not have the same beliefs or have the same viewpoint on the flag but give it the respect it deserves ffs!

And keepin on track with op it doesnt surprise me this happened you can only hope those same sick scumbags get whats comin to them

What do you think would happen to us, as a sovereign ppl if we decided we would have a union jack burning day here every year?:rolleyes:

Snowbie

julep wrote:

does the burning of the Irish flag actually bother anyone?

personally, i couldn't give a flying fu(k if these idiots got every flag in this country and burnt them.

they just want a bit of attention.

granted, the kids name on the flag was extremely tasteless, but they burn the tricolour on almost every bonfire every year. let them perform their little ritual. they're not really harming anyone.

The burning of any nations flag is a symbol of hatred of that countries flag you burn(which is obvious to everyone)very disrespectful indeed and disgusts me totally.Sure even that biggot Paisley burnt the tricolor at a rally shown live on tv back in the 80s and now he is in power of the biggest party up North.So whats that saying that if he had nukes he would gladly descend them on Baile Atha Cliath with no hesitation at all.

Of course they want the attention and is minority as usual but this day every year is not a celebration its always a ritual of Shi* stirring biggots.

Surrender

Its the 12th of July and people are giving out about burning tri colours? A burning flag or a secterian killing, Mmmm

LovelyHurling

GAAman wrote:

Ok lets all chip in and buy zoro some "ignorance be gone" spray.

Seriously though how the hell can you say its only a piece of cloth??! How many people died for that "piece of cloth" man?!

You might not have the same beliefs or have the same viewpoint on the flag but give it the respect it deserves ffs!

Burning the Irish flag was petty and disrespectful. But it would be a shame if people let that become the issue here, and ignore the real disrespect, and that is not to irish people, but to the McIlveen family. The insult to their dead son will hurt much deeper than any assumed tribal symbolic offense.

As Julep said these people are just looking for attention. It isnt about politics its about scumbags, and Ive no doubt it has nothing to do with the nationalist or unionist cause

Surrender

LovelyHurling wrote:

Burning the Irish flag was petty and disrespectful. But it would be a shame if people let that become the issue here, and ignore the real disrespect, and that is not to irish people, but to the McIlveen family.

As Julep said these people are just looking for attention. It isnt about politics its about scumbags, and Ive no doubt it has nothing to do with the nationalist or unionist cause

Fair play mate, most sensible thing I've heard yet

Snowbie

Even the Brits themselves have more trouble with the North than we do.I cant remember who quoted this but he was a MP in Westminster "saying he would gladly like to see NI detach itself from the rest of the island Of Ireland and float at great speed to the centre of the Atlantic out of harms way"

zoro

Snowbie wrote:

The burning of any nations flag is a symbol of hatred of that countries flag you burn(which is obvious to everyone)very disrespectful indeed and disgusts me totally.

If I, as an Irish person, were to burn an Irish flag, would that still be a symbol of hatred towards Ireland? Would it be disrespectful? Do I have a duty as an Irish citizen not to burn the Irish flag?

biko

Surrender wrote:

Fair play mate, most sensible thing I've heard yet

No Surrender!

Sorry, just had to get that in

Surrender

LOL:D , class. Its me Ian Paisley using reverse psychology

ShiverinEskimo

zoro wrote:

If I, as an Irish person, were to burn an Irish flag, would that still be a symbol of hatred towards Ireland? Would it be disrespectful? Do I have a duty as an Irish citizen not to burn the Irish flag?

Yes - Flag Desecration is illegal here.

Pigman II

ravenhead wrote:

Tricolour burnt on bonfire in North

That's terrible news. Was it an expensive flag?

scojones

julep wrote:

does the burning of the Irish flag actually bother anyone?

personally, i couldn't give a flying fu(k if these idiots got every flag in this country and burnt them.

It doesn't bother me right now. I mean, I'm just using my computer in my house, but if I was walking down the street and saw someone doing it I imagine I'd be fairly annoyed.

ShiverinEskimo

Pigman II wrote:

That's terrible news. Was it an expensive flag?

If you had read the whole original post you would have seen that it wasn't the burning of the flag that was the issue it was the fact that the young McIlveen fellas name was on the flag to be burnt:

ravenhead wrote:

An Irish tricolour insulting a Northern Irish sectarian murder victim has been placed on top of a bonfire in Co Antrim.

The name of 15-year-old Catholic murder victim Michael McIlveen was on a flag due to be burned at the Eleventh night loyalist bonfire in Ahoghill.

The message said: “F*** Mickey Bo”, the dead teenager’s nickname.

smashey

zoro wrote:

No, by burning it, they're burning a piece of cloth.
It's nothing more, nothing less.

However, if you automatically presume that they're doing it simply to annoy Irish 'patriots' (I use the term loosely - as I believe patriotism is a joke at best anyway), then you're just buying into the notion that somehow, a piece of cloth with 3 distinct colours plastered across it holds some magical properties.

It doesn't. It's cloth.

Well if it is only cloth, then why are they so specific in their choice?

You should realise that when these people burn our flag, they know exactly what they are burning and the message it sends out.

homah_7ft

Complete scumbags obviously. To insult the boy like that is disgusting.

Pigman II

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

If you had read the whole original post you would have seen that it wasn't the burning of the flag that was the issue it was the fact that the young McIlveen fellas name was on the flag to be burnt:

No I read the original post. You see I have this warped ideolgy whereby killing someone is the final damaging act you can commit upon them and anything after that is just white-noise designed to annoy those still left and stupid enough to let themselves get annoyed.

antSionnach

LovelyHurling wrote:

Burning the Irish flag was petty and disrespectful. But it would be a shame if people let that become the issue here, and ignore the real disrespect, and that is not to irish people, but to the McIlveen family. The insult to their dead son will hurt much deeper than any assumed tribal symbolic offense.

As Julep said these people are just looking for attention. It isnt about politics its about scumbags, and Ive no doubt it has nothing to do with the nationalist or unionist cause

Shiverineskimo

If you had read the whole original post you would have seen that it wasn't the burning of the flag that was the issue it was the fact that the young McIlveen fellas name was on the flag to be burnt:

these are 2 very important points. Im an Irishman, a very proud Irishman, Ive had relatives in the old IRA (ie the really old one!) and I have many nationalist opinions. But ffs I think the lad who was murdered deserves more respect than a bit of dyed cloth does.

get over it, the burned flag doesnt matter

Angels

Trying to insult a person who's dead will come back to haunt these 'Scumbags'. Burning the 'Irish flag' is another issue it's insulting the whole of Ireland as a country, what we stand for, our beliefs etc need i go on.

These scumbags should be put on top of the bonfire & see how they like it then, probably sh**e themselves or pee there pants. Thats more like it. I'm evil i know.

On a more serious note like a few boardsters have already stated, we should ignore these guys as they are only looking for attention & are trying to stirr up shi*e in the North again.

antSionnach

Angels wrote:

On a more serious note like a few boardsters have already stated, we should ignore these guys as they are only looking for attention & are trying to stirr up shi*e in the North again.

Ya so to prevent that from happening lets put them on a bonfire until they wet themselves in dread??? :rolleyes:

Northern ireland. Just Go away.

Diogenes

smashey wrote:

Well if it is only cloth, then why are they so specific in their choice?

You should realise that when these people burn our flag, they know exactly what they are burning and the message it sends out.

And getting outraged about it you play into their hands.

The flag is a symbol, and a symbol has exactly as much value as you decide to give it, too often do people get worked up over symbols and lose sight of what truly matters.

Fair play to the poster who expressed his sympathises to the family, they're the people suffering.

Zoro is right a flag is just a piece of cloth, a piece of cloth that just happens to mean so much to some of you you cared more about the fact that it burned, rather than focus on the family of a murdered man.

Ohyeah

There is a pic of the sick bonfire here :mad:

www.dailyireland.com

but as I said on another thread in the front page Daily Ireland story today there is a DUP local councillor I think who says it is horrible that the loyalists are using Michael McIlveen name like this. Horrible though:mad:

Mr.Nice Guy

Diogenes wrote:

And getting outraged about it you play into their hands.

The flag is a symbol, and a symbol has exactly as much value as you decide to give it, too often do people get worked up over symbols and lose sight of what truly matters.

On the contrary, I think if you devalue the importance of the flag's symbolism then you are playing into their hands.

Just because these arseholes choose to disrespect our national flag doesn't mean we should follow suit.

Turning a blind eye to rampant bigotry doesn't make it go away. You have to confront it head on so people acknowledge it's out of order.

Angels

Ever heard of sarcasim darling hehe!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

all we have to do is just boo NI sports teams whenever we see them on tv... it's pretty simple.

smashey

Diogenes wrote:

And getting outraged about it you play into their hands.

The flag is a symbol, and a symbol has exactly as much value as you decide to give it, too often do people get worked up over symbols and lose sight of what truly matters.

Fair play to the poster who expressed his sympathises to the family, they're the people suffering.

Zoro is right a flag is just a piece of cloth, a piece of cloth that just happens to mean so much to some of you you cared more about the fact that it burned, rather than focus on the family of a murdered man.

Symbolism? Nobody does symbolism better than the loyalists. My point was that they knew exactly what they were doing.

This must be a terrible experience for the McIlveen family.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

LovelyHurling

Mordeth wrote:

all we have to do is just boo NI sports teams whenever we see them on tv... it's pretty simple.

You must be a real sportsman:rolleyes:

Its not an NI or unionist issue Mordeth its about scumbags

daveirl

This post has been deleted.