Bad neighbours - what to do?

Quatre Mains · 04-07-2006 01:48AM #1

Hi all
this is a bit long-winded so please bear with me...over the last 12-18 months or so theres been a group of 6 or so Romanian men renting in the house next door to my parents. Every weekend they turn the house into party central from Friday till Sunday(this is why I mentioned their nationality, a lot of Eastern Europeans seem to do their drinking at home), the sing-songs etc starting as early as 2pm sometimes. My parents front garden is the path as far as they're concerned. The landlord lives another 2 houses up the road so my da has been up both to them next door and him on numerous occasions as you can imagine.
Last Friday night I stayed over at their house and was awoken at 6am to the sound of some completely locked woman(Irish) screaming drunken crap from said house. The aul lad was on his way out to work and told her to shut up and was met with a fairly predictable barrage of abuse from her and some other bloke. He left and the noise kept up apparently(I fell back asleep). Later my ma told me that she confronted her and the woman threatened to burn out the cars outside our gaff amongst other things. :mad:
My parents are both coming up to retirement age so this is obviously doing their heads in. Does anyone have any advice/experience on how we should approach sorting this out? I don't know if the cops would be interested as generally the problem is noise (altho they should be when threats like the one above are made), but its not safe IMO for a 62 year old man to be getting at odds with 6 drunks. The landlord doesnt care at all. Should my parents go to a solicitor about him not controlling his tenants etc(seem to remember some case last year or so on Northside in this vein), or is it just a case of 'sorry, time to move house?'
Thanks in advance for any advice given, I would really appreciate it. I dont live even nearby so I feel pretty helpless TBH.

slipss · 04-07-2006 02:12AM

I'd say your best bet is to ring the gardai, tell them about the noise and the threats, at the very least they'll have to send a car around to talk to the people, I don't know what good this'll do but its worth a shot. If you wan't to know what I would do, I'd get 10 or 12 of your biggest scarriest looking mates/family to knock around with you during the day time. Don't make any threats or anything like that just have the people with you stand in the garden looking scary and tell the neighbours to try to keep it down a bit and explain your situation to them. If it didn't get any better I'd put a shot threw thier front door. But I'd say maybe try the gaurds first.

StandnDeliver · 04-07-2006 02:17AM

hmm noise pollution,threatening behaviour,i think you should document it or your parents should,also get a notebook and writedown times and dates of when the hastle starts.it will look alot better if u have this.How about citizens advice go along to them as well.

Ruu_Old · 04-07-2006 02:45AM

Best idea is to write it down so at least you'll have something to show instead of their word against yours. Its not acceptable in any case and especially if your folks have to live in fear after living there all their lives.

bettlebrox · 04-07-2006 04:33AM

I agree with the logbook idea. They need to start keeping track of all the goings-on next door. For the moment I don't think they should phone the Gardai next time there is noise (based on your description of the neighbours they could cause trouble when the Gardai leave). But, I think they should go down to the local Gardai station ASAP and ask the Gardai advise on what to do (this is where a log book is needed so they can show how troublesome the neighbours are). Plus, they should tell them about the threats.

Another tack might also be to also phone the County Council, maybe with six people in the house the landlord could be gotten on Health or Safety violations? And talk to any local political representatives both local & national. It can't hurt and if they need to go to the courts it will show that your parents are not idle complainers and could help their case.

Lastly, I'd go to a solicitor because I think courts should be the last action, and they (solicitors) bloody well cost so much!

This bit probably isn't good advise, but depending on what the landlord is like, I'd start ringing him/her up everytime these party-animals wake me up. My attitude would be, if I can't sleep why should the fecker making money of them sleep either?

Now a question. Do you think this carry-on would have continued happening if your parent's had phoned the Gardai the first time this happened? I'm just wondering if these lads think they can get away with it because nothing ever occurred over it? Have your parents tried talking to these lads or are they just too scary? Keep us posted on what happens as I'm sure it will be useful advise for us all. I hope all works out well in the end.

jrey1981 · 04-07-2006 04:40AM

try the guards, but if that doesnt get through to them, you need to try something like slipss suggested.

Sounds like an asbo case to me.

Huggles · 04-07-2006 06:24AM

Johnnycabs wrote:

Hi all
this is a bit long-winded so please bear with me...over the last 12-18 months or so theres been a group of 6 or so Romanian men renting in the house next door to my parents. Every weekend they turn the house into party central from Friday till Sunday(this is why I mentioned their nationality, a lot of Eastern Europeans seem to do their drinking at home), the sing-songs etc starting as early as 2pm sometimes. My parents front garden is the path as far as they're concerned. The landlord lives another 2 houses up the road so my da has been up both to them next door and him on numerous occasions as you can imagine.
Last Friday night I stayed over at their house and was awoken at 6am to the sound of some completely locked woman(Irish) screaming drunken crap from said house. The aul lad was on his way out to work and told her to shut up and was met with a fairly predictable barrage of abuse from her and some other bloke. He left and the noise kept up apparently(I fell back asleep). Later my ma told me that she confronted her and the woman threatened to burn out the cars outside our gaff amongst other things. :mad:
My parents are both coming up to retirement age so this is obviously doing their heads in. Does anyone have any advice/experience on how we should approach sorting this out? I don't know if the cops would be interested as generally the problem is noise (altho they should be when threats like the one above are made), but its not safe IMO for a 62 year old man to be getting at odds with 6 drunks. The landlord doesnt care at all. Should my parents go to a solicitor about him not controlling his tenants etc(seem to remember some case last year or so on Northside in this vein), or is it just a case of 'sorry, time to move house?'
Thanks in advance for any advice given, I would really appreciate it. I dont live even nearby so I feel pretty helpless TBH.

Had the exact same problem a few weeks back, the foreigners don't give two sh1ts. I called the police and was told it was a civil matter and that was the end of that, no help, no car, nothing. Made me sick. In the end I had to bombared the landlord with complaints till tehy where told to calmdown.

Hobbes · 04-07-2006 07:49AM

Create a log book, also talk to a solicitor after you have some material on what is going on and see about a nusance claim.

Maximilian · 04-07-2006 08:28AM

They need to go to a solicitor. There is a provision under some act, I forget which - its something like an Environment Protection Act whereby you can bring people & the landlord to court for behavior like this. Its District Court stuff so its not too expensive to do. It can be quite effective I believe.

There's not a hell of a lot the cops can do to be honest.

tbh · 04-07-2006 08:46AM

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/environment/noise_regulations.html?search=noise

Noise Regulations in Ireland
Rules
How to apply
Where to apply
Information
Under Irish law, you are entitled to bring complaints about specific neighbourhood noise to the District Court.

Types of noise covered
Noise such as that coming from other homes, workshops or local businesses that is continuous, repeated, loud and occurring at such times and of such duration that it affects the quality of life of the person is covered in Irish law.

The law in Ireland governing this area is (Section 108) of the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and the Environmental Protection Agency Act (Noise) Regulations 1994 (SI No. 179 of 1994). While the law does not specifically mention an exact level or standard of noise that is illegal, it is clear that if neighbourhood noise is affecting the quality of life of a citizen, then you have a right to complain. Your local authority has the power to investigate complaints about neighbourhood noise and also has specialist equipment that measures levels of sound.

A European standard for external intruder alarms replaced all current national standards in September, 2003. The new standard incorporates stricter controls regarding minimum and maximum duration for the sounding of alarms. The new limits are 90 seconds minimum and 15 minutes maximum. However, the new controls only apply to alarms fitted from September, 2003.

Rules
Making a complaint
You should approach the person or business causing the noise and explain that it is a nuisance and try to come to a mutually acceptable solution. If this does not work, your local authority has the same power as individuals to bring noise complaints to the District Court. In addition, local authorities have similar powers to the Environmental Protection Agency in relation to premises, processes and works other than those that require licensing under the Environmental Protection Agency Act. The Environmental Protection Agency can require the person or body to take specific measures to prevent or limit noise. Anyone required to take such specific measures by the Environmental Protection Agency must do so or face prosecution.

If you wish to make a complaint to the District Court, you are not required to be represented by a solicitor, however, you may engage the assistance of a solicitor to help prepare your noise complaint and present this in court. You should consult with the Clerk of your local District Court about an appointment for the hearing of your case and refer precisely to the law relating to your case (Section 108 of the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 (Noise) Regulations 1994 (SI No. 179 of 1994).

The appointment for the hearing of your case must be at least 7 days later than the date on which you inform the person responsible for the noise nuisance that you will be taking your case to court. You must use a Environmental Protection Agency Act, 1992 - noise form of notice to inform the person or business that you will be taking them to court. It is important that you use this form of notice only and that you complete it fully and accurately.

The District Court will call both parties together and listens to both sides of the case. If the court finds in your favour, it can order the person or body to limit the noise, reduce the level of noise or stop the noise completely. Any Orders made by the court must be complied with.

Penalties for breach of law
The maximum fine for conviction on breach of noise regulations is 3,000 euro or 12 months in prison or both.

How to apply
Approach the person or business responsible for the noise and try to reach a mutually acceptable solution. You may find that they were not aware of the nuisance and in most cases, this will resolve the problem.

If you have tried to resolve the problem amicably and this has not worked, you may then refer your complaint to your local authority, or you can take your complaint directly to your local District Court or the Environmental Protection Authority.

Complaints regarding aircraft noise should be made directly to the Irish Aviation Authority.

Where to apply
Environmental Protection Agency
P.O. Box 3000,
Johnstown Castle Estate
Co. Wexford.
Tel: (053) 60600
Fax: (053) 60699
E-mail: info@epa.ie

I would say if you point this out to the landlord, he'll sort them out pretty quick. you DONT have to put up with this.

good luck,
tbh

Beruthiel · 04-07-2006 09:21AM

Johnnycabs wrote:

The landlord doesnt care at all.

Could your Da go and get the landlord out of bed everytime this happens, no matter what hour of the morning it is? I'm guessing that once this starts to interfer with the landlords sleep on a regular basis, he might do something.

r3nu4l · 04-07-2006 09:43AM

Nice one tbh! Good reading there. I would be careful about waking the landlord every time you are woken as this could backfire and your parents could end up in court for harrassment :rolleyes:

It is a good idea if your parents have an unregistered pre-pay mobile to call the landlords number every time they are woken and then he will hear the noise too. He may not get whats's happening initially but pretty soon he will understand that every time the Eastern Europeans party he gets a phone call from an unidentifiable number.

He may act then.

First step is to have a word with the landlord and ask him to accompany you to the tenants house to discuss the matter with them. Perhaps they can party in other peoples houses for a few weeks. Make a not of all reasonable suggestions you make and contacts with the landlord and tenants and their responses.

DublinWriter · 04-07-2006 09:56AM

Maximilian wrote:

There's not a hell of a lot the cops can do to be honest.

Get this...a friend of mine is a guard and is married to another guard. They live out in Lucan. The house next door is rented to Brazillians and as the OP said, it's party central every weekend complete with samba drums and cowbells.

Now if they can't do anything, I think you're even in a worse position.

Scruff · 04-07-2006 10:08AM

check that he is registered with the Private Residential Tenancies Board. If not it may be a stick you can beat him with for tax dodging

Emmo · 04-07-2006 10:08AM

Is the landlord paying tax on the rent?

If not explain to him that if you have to have issues with his tenants then the Revenue Commisioners might find out that they are paying income on which no tax is being paid.

Emmo

Emmo · 04-07-2006 10:09AM

SNAP Scruff, great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.

Emmo

Globe · 04-07-2006 10:17AM

This happened to my Mum also, 70 years old living on her own and everytime there was a party she called the landlord and the gardai a few times and eventually they moved out, landlord got sick of the hassle and didn't renew the lease.

Good luck with this I know what a nightmare it is, hope it works out.

Quatre Mains · 04-07-2006 04:11PM

Hello again everyone
I just wanted to say thanks a mill for all the replies. I was so wound up after writing that last night I ended up getting about 2 hours kip before work today, but you have given me plenty of constructive ideas on how to tackle the problem.

Cheers
Neil

Nina_Angelica · 04-07-2006 05:02PM

one thing that constantly annoyed me when living in ireland is the lack of response from the guards.

they have so little authority it's ridiculous. why shouldn't they be able to issue a fine of some sort if some idiot's are making craploads of noise?!

there should be some way of enforcing noise rules and regulations that's instantaneous. after the fact it all seems sort of moot, doesn't it?

dubtom · 04-07-2006 05:41PM

I look after a lot of properties including houses with up to eight units in them. It is the landlords repsonsibilty to sort this out.If he won't listen to you try and get more neighbours to get behind you. It's very simply sorted on his part, a verbal, then written warning to the tennants, if they continue to create the disturbance he has grounds to evict them. I find usually that tennants are not keen on being removed from their home and most will comply with a landlord who threatens eviction over bad behaviour. I would not under any circumstances try and sort this yourself, the bad boys in the garden IMHO is a bad suggestion, unless you want an all out war on your hands with drunken romanians.

DublinWriter · 04-07-2006 08:00PM

Nina_Angelica wrote:

there should be some way of enforcing noise rules and regulations that's instantaneous. after the fact it all seems sort of moot, doesn't it?

Would ASBOs work in this country do you think?

Or maybe some way of licencing landlords?

Nina_Angelica · 04-07-2006 09:10PM

excuse my ignorance but ASBO stands for?

licensing landlords to give a fine, is it? might be an idea...

DublinWriter · 04-07-2006 09:21PM

Nina_Angelica wrote:

excuse my ignorance but ASBO stands for?

Anti-Social Behaviour Order. Google "ASBO UK" and you'll see what I mean.

Nina_Angelica wrote:

licensing landlords to give a fine, is it? might be an idea...

Perhaps. I was thinking more along the lines of requiring a licence in order to rent investment property. If you don't take care of troublesome tennents, then your licence is revoked and you won't be allowed to rent the property anymore.

Nina_Angelica · 04-07-2006 09:41PM

gotcha.

tbh, i'm not sure if ASBO would work. i think it would depend on what kind of rules/guidelines were introduced and the reasonability of said rules/guidelines.

i think it *could* work provided you have landlords and local authorities combined efforts to enforce the rules, but i think that the local community would need to have a say in what's acceptable/not acceptable as well.

kona · 04-07-2006 09:49PM

sure you will just get the racist card pulled:mad: :mad: :mad:

, you should try to have a bigger, louder,brighter,wilder,sleezier party than them..i am talking fireworks, heavy metal, too much booze etc strippers and the like they defo wont like that!!!:cool:

DublinWriter · 04-07-2006 09:58PM

kona wrote:

sure you will just get the racist card pulled:mad: :mad: :mad: , you should try to have a bigger, louder,brighter,wilder,sleezier party than them..i am talking fireworks, heavy metal, too much booze etc strippers and the like they defo wont like that!!!:cool:

And the trick would be to hold it around 8am while they are just starting to doze off and nurse hangovers.

Nothing illegal about playing 'The Ace of Spades' with your hi-fi amp cranked to 11 at 8am, nice and legal, even on a Sunday, but if you do it after 9pm, that's another story.

I could even lend you some Napalm Death CD's for the ocassion.

faceman · 04-07-2006 10:05PM

Have read and been involved with plenty of scenarios like this. The gardai are powerless to do anything. Taking someone to court is tricky and longwinded (and pointless if they are foreign nationals)

I really think at this stage, people, community, neightbours should get together and lobby TD's to get the law changed so we have something similar to what the UK has. (Noise inspectors on the local councils)

Noise neighbours are one of the worst thing we have to put up with in 2006 Ireland. People need to take a stand TOGETHER.

Brian Capture · 04-07-2006 10:09PM

slipss wrote:

If you wan't to know what I would do, I'd get 10 or 12 of your biggest scarriest looking mates/family to knock around with you during the day time.

Hard man.

Chucky the tree · 04-07-2006 10:32PM

buy a small bag of cocaine. Buy a couple of boxes of chalk. cut the chalk into powder and mix it in with the coke. Stick it in a bag. Put it in the neighbours backgarden. Ring crimestoppers/your local station annonumously(sp?) and thell them theres a stash of cocaine in the back garden.

If the cops test it they will find elements of coke. they wont care how much coke is actually in it. They will claim the weight and give some over-hyped street value.

Mightnt work, but sure why not give it a try?

Red Alert · 04-07-2006 11:06PM

^^^ someone's been taking lessons from the lads up in Donegal.

Chucky the tree · 04-07-2006 11:44PM

haha. Its no shotgun but it might do a job.

Bad neighbours - what to do?

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