Drugs, Legal and illegal ones.

So Glad · 20-06-2006 04:25PM

True but I don't agree with your arguement about making drugs (you didn't say which ones but lets say cannibis) legal. Firstly this hasn't been said and it needs to be said because it's true. The grade of Hash we have today is disgraceful. Mainly the reason I quit. It is full of toxic impurities such as straw, plastic (visible), oil, talc anything to bulk it up. Nobody knows what this can do to the human body.

I think cannibis should be legallised so it can be safer. Anyone who smokes cannibis regularly has to smoke crappy soap bar because it is cheap and available. Anyone (like me) who values their health would like to smoke weed more often but it is very rare to get and sometimes really bad quality. Soap bar is also known to make people very moody and angry. Not surprising if you are smoking plasic.

Also, why would more people try it if it was legal? Everyone smokes it anyways. EVERYONE. It's just a secret. To legalise and to make safer would make all the difference.

Funsterdelux · 20-06-2006 04:31PM

So Glad wrote:

True but I don't agree with your arguement about making drugs (you didn't say which ones but lets say cannibis) legal. Firstly this hasn't been said and it needs to be said because it's true. The grade of Hash we have today is disgraceful. Mainly the reason I quit. It is full of toxic impurities such as straw, plastic (visible), oil, talc anything to bulk it up. Nobody knows what this can do to the human body.

I think cannibis should be legallised so it can be safer. Anyone who smokes cannibis regularly has to smoke crappy soap bar because it is cheap and available. Anyone (like me) who values their health would like to smoke weed more often but it is very rare to get and sometimes really bad quality. Soap bar is also known to make people very moody and angry. Not surprising if you are smoking plasic.

Also, why would more people try it if it was legal? Everyone smokes it anyways. EVERYONE. It's just a secret. To legalise and to make safer would make all the difference.

I have to agree here, you'd might see a reduction in these shootings aswell, though they re usually bigger game. At the moment everyone who is smoking hash is contributing to that side of society which everyone wants gone, but we are the ones who fuel it. So legalisation/regulation is the way to go.

FX Meister · 20-06-2006 04:32PM

Everyone smokes it anyways? It's just a secret?
I'll keep an eye on my Ma in that case.

So Glad · 20-06-2006 04:39PM

FX Meister wrote:

Everyone smokes it anyways? It's just a secret?
I'll keep an eye on my Ma in that case.

Funny you should mention that. I caught mine smoking before. Got a good laugh

Evil_Bilbo · 20-06-2006 04:49PM

I know where you're coming from with the "you cant get decent hash" argument - why not legalize it, get rid of harmful impurities, cut out the organized crime element.

but the same can probably be said for any drug. impurities in e, herion and other drugs have been directly blamed for many deaths. While these drugs are considered more "hardcore" or harmful than hash, why not apply the same argument?

In the economy we live in today, everything and I mean EVERYTHING is constantly getting dearer - except one thing. Drugs. They get cheaper every year (e.g. the euro changeover - prices remained the same just in euros instead of pounds) and drug prices are constantly driven down. Is this good or bad? Is this what leads to "impure" substances being sold.

If drugs were legal, would they not be taxed severely? Look at cigarettes and alcohol - prices are through the roof.

Everyone DOSENT smoke the stuff. Maybe the circles that you hang around in, alot of people do, but thats not the same for every person in the country. Some people may go through life never being offered a joint in their lives. Is this good or bad? If it was legal, would these people not be more likely to take it up. Again, would this be good or bad? The same applies to other drugs.

While I dont want to turn this into a "legalize it" debate, I would agree that the quality of hash available for the most part is pretty poor (in Ireland anyway). I would say that it should be decriminalized though. In england and canada, this is the case, if you are caught with a small amount for personal use, it is confiscated, end of story.

I recently was caught smoking a joint at a festival and it ended up costing me 800 euros, 2 days in court and 2 days on a "drug awareness course" (which is why I've been off it for 2 months). This is a waste of time, money and police and court resources. It would still be hard to go with the whole "legalize it" thing - going purely on the argument that it would lead to greater use/abuse of the substance for people who normally wouldnt be exposed to it.

So Glad · 20-06-2006 05:26PM

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

I know where you're coming from with the "you cant get decent hash" argument - why not legalize it, get rid of harmful impurities, cut out the organized crime element.

but the same can probably be said for any drug. impurities in e, herion and other drugs have been directly blamed for many deaths. While these drugs are considered more "hardcore" or harmful than hash, why not apply the same argument?

In the economy we live in today, everything and I mean EVERYTHING is constantly getting dearer - except one thing. Drugs. They get cheaper every year (e.g. the euro changeover - prices remained the same just in euros instead of pounds) and drug prices are constantly driven down. Is this good or bad? Is this what leads to "impure" substances being sold.

If drugs were legal, would they not be taxed severely? Look at cigarettes and alcohol - prices are through the roof.

Everyone DOSENT smoke the stuff. Maybe the circles that you hang around in, alot of people do, but thats not the same for every person in the country. Some people may go through life never being offered a joint in their lives. Is this good or bad? If it was legal, would these people not be more likely to take it up. Again, would this be good or bad? The same applies to other drugs.

While I dont want to turn this into a "legalize it" debate, I would agree that the quality of hash available for the most part is pretty poor (in Ireland anyway). I would say that it should be decriminalized though. In england and canada, this is the case, if you are caught with a small amount for personal use, it is confiscated, end of story.

I recently was caught smoking a joint at a festival and it ended up costing me 800 euros, 2 days in court and 2 days on a "drug awareness course" (which is why I've been off it for 2 months). This is a waste of time, money and police and court resources. It would still be hard to go with the whole "legalize it" thing - going purely on the argument that it would lead to greater use/abuse of the substance for people who normally wouldnt be exposed to it.

Exsactly. Think of the prohibition in America. No drink anywhere so people resorted to crime and making their own booze (that is very poisonous). Same thing is happening here. Nobody can get good hash so they make crap quality cheap hash. Legalise = safer drugs.

nesf · 20-06-2006 05:33PM

The thread is about why some people take drugs and some don't. Lets not drag it off into a legalisation debate please.

padi89 · 20-06-2006 06:15PM

cinnamon wrote:

In the past I would be the person who would try anything - curiosity would be the prime reason. Now I'm older I wouldn't be bothered - don't even smoke a joint now.
It's more of a health thing now - I don't like putting any drug - legal or otherwise into my body.
The medical / pharmaceutical industry has a lot to answer for regarding the over-prescription of anti-depressants and the like. These chemical concoctions can be just as detrimental as anything illegal
Some people never try drugs and thats their own choice. I think who you hang around with has a large say in your habits.

The same as myself,well said.Been there,done that ,know better now.I have had to take some pretty strong prescribed medication for a condition and the side effects were way worse than the benefits.

Terry · 21-06-2006 01:50AM

best of luck with that.
the day i see an AH debate (and i use that word loosley) on illegal drugs without a mention of legalisation of canabis and the prohibition of alcohol, i will eat a hat. any hat. you name it and i'll eat it. i would say my own hat, but i don't own a hat, so any donations will be welcome. i will film myself eating a hat as proof that i have done it.

i'm just gonna sum up this thread in a few words.
drugs are not as bad as people make them out to be.

oh yes they are.

but if you use them in moderation, then they are really beneficial.

really? how?

you can make great music on them.

ok, what if you're not a musician?

well then they will calm you down adn you won't get into a fight, even if you are a complete scumbag.

that's not true. i've seen scumbags on weed starting fights.

oh, well they're the ones who can't handle drugs. they shouldn't do drugs.

so, you could say the same about people who drink and go nuts?

yeah, but it's not the same. drink makes everyone go nuts. weed doesn't.

no, you just agreed that weed does make some people go nuts.

yeah, but then they shouldn't smoke weed.

are you going to tell them to stop?

no. because weed should be legal and everyone should have the choice to smoke it, because alcohol is legal and everyone has the choice to drink.

is alcohol not enough for you?

no, i don't like it. it makes me rowdy, but i'm not willing to admit that here. that'#s why i smoke weed.

i'm retarded.

i'm retarded.

no, i'm retarded.

no way are you as retarded as me. i'm still arguing.

and so on and so forth.

So Glad · 21-06-2006 04:33PM

julep wrote:

best of luck with that.
the day i see an AH debate (and i use that word loosley) on illegal drugs without a mention of legalisation of canabis and the prohibition of alcohol, i will eat a hat. any hat. you name it and i'll eat it. i would say my own hat, but i don't own a hat, so any donations will be welcome. i will film myself eating a hat as proof that i have done it.

i'm just gonna sum up this thread in a few words.
drugs are not as bad as people make them out to be.

oh yes they are.

but if you use them in moderation, then they are really beneficial.

really? how?

you can make great music on them.

ok, what if you're not a musician?

well then they will calm you down adn you won't get into a fight, even if you are a complete scumbag.

that's not true. i've seen scumbags on weed starting fights.

oh, well they're the ones who can't handle drugs. they shouldn't do drugs.

so, you could say the same about people who drink and go nuts?

yeah, but it's not the same. drink makes everyone go nuts. weed doesn't.

no, you just agreed that weed does make some people go nuts.

yeah, but then they shouldn't smoke weed.

are you going to tell them to stop?

no. because weed should be legal and everyone should have the choice to smoke it, because alcohol is legal and everyone has the choice to drink.

is alcohol not enough for you?

no, i don't like it. it makes me rowdy, but i'm not willing to admit that here. that'#s why i smoke weed.

i'm retarded.

i'm retarded.

no, i'm retarded.

no way are you as retarded as me. i'm still arguing.

and so on and so forth.

Ok. Thanks for the contribution...

nxbyveromdwjpg · 21-06-2006 07:48PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

A man in Wales was recorded of having died of cannabis poisoning

That was complete bull****, the coroner couldnt figure out why the guy had dropped dead but as he had cannabis in his blood stream (like he had had every other day for the past 11 years), the death was put down to "cannabis toxicity" :rolleyes:

Ciaran500 · 21-06-2006 08:16PM

You got anything at all to back that up?

nxbyveromdwjpg · 21-06-2006 08:39PM

To back what up? Google it yourself, every report on it is the same.

The guy smoke weed everyday for over 11 years and the coroner puts his death down as 'death by misadventure' because there was cannabinoids in his blood when they found him (like there would have been had the blood tested him every other day of his life).

The coroner however didnt bother to explain the mechanism by which cannabis suddenly produced this "death" result, nor did he explain how the billions of other cannabis users around the world havent been affected by same or why a verdict like that has never reached prior or since his case.

The news story isnt hard to find, its a typical tabloid peice.

Tha Gopher · 22-06-2006 12:38PM

nm wrote:

To back what up? Google it yourself, every report on it is the same.

The guy smoke weed everyday for over 11 years and the coroner puts his death down as 'death by misadventure' because there was cannabinoids in his blood when they found him (like there would have been had the blood tested him every other day of his life).

The coroner however didnt bother to explain the mechanism by which cannabis suddenly produced this "death" result, nor did he explain how the billions of other cannabis users around the world havent been affected by same or why a verdict like that has never reached prior or since his case.

The news story isnt hard to find, its a typical tabloid peice.

So what did he die from Quincy? Ah yes I can imagine the pathologist now

"Ah christ I havent a clue what Im doin after all these years in the job. Hmm, hash in the bloodstream, thatll do". Im not sure coroners can go around making up causes of death without being struck off.

Julep, post of the fcuking week

If i was 14 boards threads would put me off doing drugs for fear I turn out as boring as some of you lot. I like a smoke, Im intelligent enough to know that inhaling smoke into your lungs isnt particularly good for them. Hash is addictive. I know people who have stole purely to buy hash. Was in the grip of addiction myself last winter (still smoke daily, but last winter was pure stupid)

Jesus, get stoned all you like, but quit harpin on about it!

CiaranC · 22-06-2006 12:47PM

wikipedia wrote:

Lethal dose

It is generally considered to be impossible to achieve a lethal overdose by smoking cannabis. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, the LD50, the lethal dose for 50% of rats tested by inhalation, is 42 mg/kg of body weight. That is equivalent of a 165 lb (75 kg) man ingesting all of the THC in 21 one-gram cigarettes of high-potency (15% THC) cannabis buds at once, assuming no THC was lost through burning or exhalation. For oral consumption, the LD50 for rats is 1270 mg/kg and 730 mg/kg for males and females, respectively, equivalent to the THC in about a pound of 15% THC cannabis. Only with intravenous administration — an unheard-of method of use — may such a level be even theoretically possible.[21]

There has only ever been one recorded verdict of fatal overdose due to cannabis. In January 2004, Lee Maisey of Pembrokeshire, Wales was found dead. The coroner's report stated "Death due to probable cannabis toxicity". It had been reported that Maisey smoked about six joints a day. Mr. Maisey's blood contained 130 nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml) of the THC metabolite THC-COOH. However, the validity of the finding did not stand up well under review. As reported on 2004-01-28 in the Neue Züricher Zeitung, the Federal Health Ministry of Switzerland asked Dr. Rudolf Brenneisen, a professor at the department for clinical research at the University of Bern, to review the data of this case. Dr. Brenneisen said that the data of the toxicological analysis and collected by autopsy were "scanty and not conclusive" and that the conclusion "death by cannabis intoxication" was "not legitimate."[22] Additionally, Dr. Franjo Grotenhermen of the Nova-Institute in Cologne, Germany said: "A concentration of 130 ng/ml THC-COOH in blood is a moderate concentration, which may be observed some hours after the use of one or two joints. Heavy regular use of cannabis easily results in THC-COOH concentrations of above 500 ng/ml. Many people use much more cannabis than Mr. Maisey did, without any negative consequences."

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana

Tha Gopher wrote:

quit harpin on about it!

Gotta love people who come into a specific thread, with a specific topic, on an internet discussion forum to tell the posters to stop talking about it. :rolleyes:

Tha Gopher · 23-06-2006 11:37AM

CiaranC- Im not telling the posters to stop talking the issue. Rather Im highlighting that people are talking out of their arses ABOUT the issue. Juleps post hit the nail on the head re the direction of these debates. People claiming all sorts about the benefits of doing drugs, and boring the arse off us about the demon drink. Exactly what are these benefits? Admittedtly, for some reason I think I have a better view of the world coinciding with the time I began smoking heavily. Then again, in the same time Im growing up, boy to man, so it may be purely coincidendtal for all I know. Whats the other benefits? The risk of lung cancer if you smoke heavily all your life(didnt Bob Marley die of throat cancer? And its hardly as if oul Bob was smoking Morrocan soapbar was it) Declined sperm count?

You can be certain that if alcohol was illegal and always had been the pro drug crowd would have it in their sights as the drug of love and brotherhood of humanity that must be legalised. Do I want to see hash legalised? Yes. To take it out of the hands of criminal gangs? Eh, no. If you can buy yourself and your family a decent sized house in Dublin by trafficking in millions of euros of hash, good luck to you. Hell, people in Dublin who own chains of bars and nightclubs selling millions worth of alcohol are doing it, is it really that much of a difference if a drug trafficker is? Besides that, if it was legalised, where would we buy it. Down the shop paying 40 euro for a quarter due to tax, or from the same people we have always sourced it from? The only reason i want it legalised is so i can walk down the road having a smoke without looking over my shoulder.

DublinWriter · 23-06-2006 06:51PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

didnt Bob Marley die of throat cancer?

Nope

Tha Gopher wrote:

Do I want to see hash legalised? Yes. To take it out of the hands of criminal gangs? Eh, no. If you can buy yourself and your family a decent sized house in Dublin by trafficking in millions of euros of hash, good luck to you.

That argument is a little moot as criminals will only move onto another contraband substance. Arguably it was because of prohabition in the US in the 20's that that Mafia consolitated power to become a major criminal syndicate.

The other argument for decriminalisation that you seem to be missing is one of quality. A recent BBC documentary on hash in the UK showed that an awful lot of additives, including dried dog faeces and shoe-polish are added to resin in order to bulk up the volumes.

Coffee-shops in Holland are very reputable, responsible and do source very carefully, as well as giving their non-smoking patrons the option of buying hash-cakes, etc.

To all, I'd say that this is a very open ended thread and everyone will want to contribute their views, whether or not you agree with them, they should be respected.

If you don't disagree with them, do so in an adult manner as if you were face to face with the person in a pub, and not like some ranty keyboard jockey who's in the comfort and safety of their bedroom.

Drugs, Legal and illegal ones.

Comments