Drugs, Legal and illegal ones.

Giblet · 19-06-2006 08:32PM

Keep prices and dosages out of this thread.

Plug, stop posting "facts" please, misinformation is probably the most dangerous thing when it comes to these discussions.

Terry · 19-06-2006 08:32PM

FX Meister wrote:

All from drug overdoses. Oh wait, no, Kurt Cobain blew his face off with a shot gun didn't he?

And hendrix didn't die from drugs either, he died from drowning in his own vomit, as a result of not having a gag reflux due to taking barbs. Read that piece of garbage in High Times once.

DublinWriter wrote:

Hendrix - choked on his own vomit
Cobain - shot himself
Morrison - heart attack in the bath

Joplin is the only one who OD'ed.

Other famous 'drug-related' rock deaths include:

'Mama' Cass Elliot - choked on a chicken bone
Keith Moon - died after a bad reaction to a drug prescribed by his Doctor to help him quit drinking (it certainly did)
Jeff Pocaro - bizarre gardening accident (spookily enough, one of Spinal Tap's drummers went the same way many years before - how Rock 'n' Roll is that?)

So the lesson here obviously is, don't do drugs, drugs are bad, m'kay?

all had well documented drug problems, which is the point i was making.

so when pete doherty dies from choking on his own vomit, are you all going to deny he had a drug problem too?

Goodshape · 19-06-2006 08:39PM

Strokesfan wrote:

What's peyote????

A psychedelic cactus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote

I'd say it's not illegal here because it's next to imposable to get (I've never seen or heard of it's availability at least). Never tried it myself but a very intensive trip by all accounts.

Tusky · 19-06-2006 08:53PM

I dont anyone is saying drugs are not dangerous...anyone who does is an idiot. Of course they are dangerous if you are irresponsible with them...but then again, so are cars, knives & food.

Dooom · 19-06-2006 08:55PM

FX Meister wrote:

You're from Kilkenny, what would you know about the price of heroin?

Quite a bit (well, I don't know about Pug), there's a fairly large population of junkies around Kilkenny.

Iirc wasn't Cobain off his face on china white or something when he popped the bottle?

Canis Lupus · 19-06-2006 08:59PM

I smoke tobacco and weed and drink alcohol.

To answer the OP's question I can't give a general answer really, it's as simple as I can so I can when it applies to me, others just say no

It has alot to do with parenting and the people you grow up with as well I'd guess.

I take nothing harder tho as the margin between the pros and the cons starts getting slimmer the more exotic you go, not including smoking ordinary cigs cos they don't have a plus side bar that I enjoy smoking.... Or the nicotine tells me I do?....

inode · 19-06-2006 09:01PM

salvia is really intense too. i had a dodgey trip on it. wouldnt advice for people who have been stoned or really drunk or on shrooms etc ( obviously they would have been stoned and on shrooms in holland as no one in ireland takes illegal drugs lol)

Goodshape · 19-06-2006 09:08PM

inode wrote:

(obviously they would have been stoned and on shrooms in holland as no one in ireland takes illegal drugs lol)

I know you're joking, but that would be another line of thinking that annoys me. "I'd never do weed or shrooms.. there illegal and therefor bad! Oh, but if you're in Holland then obviously that's alright!".

Law's are not a substitute for common sense.

So Glad · 19-06-2006 09:52PM

julep wrote:

so has eating fatty foods. want to know why? because more people indulge in these activities.

aside from your own parents, were you there to see everything that went on behind closed doors? i've seen plenty of parents of 20 year olds at house parties doing coke and other crap.

yet...

tell the advertising standards authority.

yep. hendrix, joplin, cobain, morrison. they were all great. how did they die again?

Oh lord.

So what if they died? They wanted to die. They did what they came to do and then died. Look at what they left. Great music. So what if they died from drugs. Why should you care?

Also, not much rock stars actually die from drugs. It is usually media ****erry that says that as pointed out a few posts ago. Look at Cream. They are unbelievably old and they have done drugs for years. Heroin, coke the dreaded hash everything including alcoholism. Are they dead? No, and they still rock out. What is your point?

nesf · 19-06-2006 10:06PM

Arguing over bands and their drug usage etc is not adding anything to the discussion on here. It's pointless, a lot of drugs are bad for you in the long term (like alcohol and nicotine) that's from statistics not individual cases.

One of my relatives lived to 93 while drinking heavily, smoking heavily and eating very fatty food all his life. Does that mean that all of the above encourage a long life and have no ill effects? No, it doesn't. It just highlights how pointless discussing individual cases is when you are talking about something being bad for people in general.

Cop on people.

Dave! · 19-06-2006 11:25PM

You heard the lady. Back on topic!

I wonder will this thread be moved to the new Drugs forum when we get it

Or will it be closed by then

lol

DublinWriter · 19-06-2006 11:32PM

I think Wilde said it best when he said "One should try everything once except incest and morris dancing".

slipss · 20-06-2006 02:33AM

Sm0ke wrote:

just taught id raise a topic about these. from my experiences there seems to be 3 types of people, those who take no drugs. those who take little, and those that will try anything. they now span all social classes and some pretty strong ones are legal in this country i.e. Peyote. i always found it strange that Peyote wud be legal where as Marijuana isnt, is this just ignorance on the part of the Authorites or what, and surely salvia must be more damaging than pot?

so why do some people take drugs and sum dont? everyone has a choicer and its not just the "lower" classes that become junkies.

Anyways getting back to your question Smoke

I seen a program on the dicovery channel I think about this before, not about drugs exactly, but it was about how some people are "thrill seekers" and others play it safe.

It was arguing that it was something to do with your brain chemistry, dopamine supply control, or something like that. Anyways they used the example or two kids at a swimming pool, they both go up to the top of the high dive, their both nervice but one of them jumps and one chickens out and climbs back down the ladder, they scanned their brains and did tests on them and it turned out thier brains worked a little differently. The kid that jumped's brain looked the same in scans during tests to the brains of sky divers and racing drivers and recreational drug users. It was a lot more complicated and drawn out than that but that was the drift of it.

I reckon this theory partly explains why outta two people that grew up in the same house and had the same friends ect one will try different drugs when they get the chance and the other one won't. Obviously though the company you keep and how your raised and how available certain drugs are to you would also determain wether or not you would try a particular drug. But i do think theres something to that whole discovery channel thing, because in general the friends I know that do drugs, or more acuratly, would be willing to try a new drug or differant drugs are usually the ones that always wanted to go on the biggest scariest rides if we went to a carnivale, or tended to drive that little bit to fast, or were always up for things like bungy jumping or ab sailing. And going the other way the friends I have that turned down things like hash and e and coke when it was offered to them the first time were usually the ones that didn't really go for those things. There are a few exeptions going both ways but for the most part this was the way it usually went.

Beekay · 20-06-2006 02:54AM

julep wrote:

yep. hendrix, joplin, cobain, morrison. they were all great. how did they die again?

suicide

edit:whoops its already been said....carry on

Naked Lepper · 20-06-2006 09:02AM

You will find that most people do in fact take drugs. Wheather it be cigarettes, alcohol, cannabis, ampetamines, psychadelics..

Its just that the people who take the legal ones often have a feeling that because their drugs of choice are legal, that they are ok, or less harmful that the ones that are illegal. Which is, as any educated person will tell you, simply not the case.

Funsterdelux · 20-06-2006 09:54AM

Drugs are bad, drugs are good, a six inch block is good, in a shed wall, but if its forthy feet in the air and nothing to support it and theres someone standing underneath, then its bad.
Its the same with religion, its good for some people here, whereas it may kill millions elsewhere. Sure cars get us to work, airplanes to far off destinations, but they are also killing the atmosphere, killing us.
This is the world we live in, fact is, its probably going to stay this way for an awful long time.
Fair enough most people start drugs coz of peer pressure, I know I did but I had no opinions before I started, now I have. I could stop if I had to stop, drinking or smoking, no problem. I may have/want to in the future, but I dont see it as a problem, I dont have an addictive personality, and I think genes has a major part to play when it comes to drugs.

cinnamon · 20-06-2006 10:35AM

Goodshape wrote:

It annoys me when people choose to draw such a definite line between the legal and illegal drugs (the former being 'good', the latter being 'bad'. end of story).

There's enough information out there that people should be able to make up their own minds on the issue. In my experience difference between legal and illegal does not always equal the difference between good and bad.
.

It's the government who draws the line between legal and illegal drugs - they make the laws, not people.

Tha Gopher · 20-06-2006 11:31AM

Plug wrote:

Hash.........Keeps you out of trouble, never killked anyone yet.
yokes........E5 each, will fcuk you up after a while. You could die if you get a bad one.
cocaine.....simular effects. Rich man's drug. nums your face.
Hereoin......Expensive and will kill fast. Wouldn't touch it.
Lsd...........gives you wings, but will seriously fcuk you up.
Magic mushrums......Don't know.
Alchol.....Worse than hash, yokes and cocaine.
I strongly don't recemmend any.

LOL

What age are you, 14?

tbh Im pretty tired of the "alcohol evil, weed natural and good" thing on boards. Firstly, enough of this nobody ever died from smoke. A man in Wales was recorded of having died of cannabis poisoning, which pretty much gets rid of the old tale that you would have to smoke your own body weight in hash in a matter of hours to kill yourself, as I saw somewhere. All this nonsense about "alcohol destroys families, hash doesnt". You honestly think that nobody has ever run down and killed a child, or plowed into another car, or walked out infront of one themselves, whilst stoned out of their brain (nearly did the walk out infront of car one myself a few times mashed).

I smoke maybe 4/5 times a day, I drink a shedload at the weekend, I do certain things at occasional dance music events, but nevertheless the whole demon alcohol theme of most boards threads is embarrasing. As is the "stoners are all good people" theme. Hash doesnt make people violent, but at the same time the fact 98% of the scumbags smoke it seems to be ignored.

As for my experience, kids, say no to speed. Havent done acid yet, having been rather put off after a guy i know fell from a 4th storey flat during a party whilst on it (admittedtly, that could happen when purely drunk, but Ill still stay clear for now)

So Glad- so whats your point? Every relationship break up of people you know in their 40s/50s was caused mainly by alcohol (and gambling in some cases Id suspect). So what. Your forgetting these people are from a different era. They were already broke up before coke hit big in the late 90s, and even when it did most of hem probably had no interest in taking it. I can think of a few younger people I know who broke up pretty serious relationships because one of the couple had coke habits. If I ask my kids in 20 years how many of their friends parents split because of coke Im sure it would be high.

So Glad wrote:

Also, drugs have given us the best music ever heard by man. Also some excellent art. So if you disagree with drugs then I suppose you dislike every good music act or artist.

ROFL

Granted, Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre collaborated on the classic The Chronic and Doggystyle in a haze of tanqueray and marijuana.

13 years of even heavier smoking later and Snoop hasnt brought out a solid album since. Theres such thing as too much of a good thing.......

Naked Lepper · 20-06-2006 12:13PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Hash doesnt make people violent, but at the same time the fact 98% of the scumbags smoke it seems to be ignored.

Yeah and 100% of the 'scumbags' drink alcohol.

I assure you that when the scumbags do 'scumbag things' they are going to be under the influence of alcohol.

Its a fact that weed chills people out, alcohol makes people aggressive.

Naked Lepper · 20-06-2006 12:16PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Granted, Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre collaborated on the classic The Chronic and Doggystyle in a haze of tanqueray and marijuana.

13 years of even heavier smoking later and Snoop hasnt brought out a solid album since. Theres such thing as too much of a good thing.......

Youre off your rocker, snoop doggs first album was better than any later ones because he smokes weed? Nonsence, hes probably always smoked and its often the case that a debut album is better than any follow ups, and its not due to drugs.

Lets face it, most people on this forum are ignorant to the whole debate, so i suggest you go and read some stuff on erowid.org, the-shroomery.org, bluelight.nu before coming here with your half arsed ignorant 'arguements'

Terry · 20-06-2006 12:17PM

testosterone makes people aggressive.

Terry · 20-06-2006 12:19PM

Naked Lepper wrote:

Youre off your rocker, snoop doggs first album was better than any later ones because he smokes weed? Nonsence, hes probably always smoked and its often the case that a debut album is better than any follow ups, and its not due to drugs.

Lets face it, most people on this forum are ignorant to the whole debate, so i suggest you go and read some stuff on erowid.org, the-shroomery.org, bluelight.nu before coming here with your half arsed ignorant 'arguements'

yeah, let's all read some pro-drug websites and educate ourselve fully on the evils of alcohol and the completely harmless drug known as weed.

the internet. generating a whole new breed of idiot since 1996.

nesf · 20-06-2006 12:49PM

Naked Lepper wrote:

Lets face it, most people on this forum are ignorant to the whole debate, so i suggest you go and read some stuff on erowid.org, the-shroomery.org, bluelight.nu before coming here with your half arsed ignorant 'arguements'

And your half arsed ignorant argument that it's a fact that weed chills people out is any better?

Cut down on your attitude towards other posters on here. You haven't displayed any high degree of education on the topic on this forum.

So Glad · 20-06-2006 01:19PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Granted, Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre collaborated on the classic The Chronic and Doggystyle in a haze of tanqueray and marijuana.

13 years of even heavier smoking later and Snoop hasnt brought out a solid album since. Theres such thing as too much of a good thing.......

Actually, I agree 100%. I think it goes down to what era you refer too when saying what drugs made better music.

Still, good music WAS made.

Bottom line is. EVERYTHING is bad for you so do what you want and live your life. **** it.

Funsterdelux · 20-06-2006 01:57PM

So Glad wrote:

Bottom line is. EVERYTHING is bad for you so do what you want and live your life. **** it.

Amen, to that.

koneko · 20-06-2006 02:00PM

Red Alert wrote:

drugs are for mugs

Thank you, Mr After-School-Special.

Naked Lepper · 20-06-2006 02:06PM

Hardly pro-drugs websites, but they’re factual websites erowid.org is not just about drugs, check it and see for yourself.

im just saying that the average Joe soap out there reads the papers and sees the scare mongering associated with drugs and automatically assumes that what they read is true. There are plenty of people who take drugs responsibly and don’t experience any of these terrible side effects or afflictions associated with drug taking!

That’s all I have to say.

CiaranC · 20-06-2006 02:12PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

A man in Wales was recorded of having died of cannabis poisoning, which pretty much gets rid of the old tale that you would have to smoke your own body weight in hash in a matter of hours to kill yourself, as I saw somewhere.

Got a source for this claim?

*edit* found one

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/content_objectid=13836296_method=full_siteid=50082_headline=-Cannabis-poisoning-kills-Welsh-addict-name_page.html#story_continue

The article makes clear that the guy smoked ~25000 spliffs over 11 yearws, that poisoning from smoking is unheard of, and that he most likely ingested a fatal dose of cannabis (we must be talking pounds here), something that is much easier to do with, say, sugar. Or water.

So Glad · 20-06-2006 04:13PM

The Gopher wrote:

A man in Wales was recorded of having died of cannabis poisoning, which pretty much gets rid of the old tale that you would have to smoke your own body weight in hash in a matter of hours to kill yourself, as I saw somewhere.

One person dies. Ok we got one death so far. BIG WHOOP!

Sorry if I sound bit arrogant but really, so what? One out of millions of regular smokers. Not a relevant point. I believe I read somewhere that more people die drinking water than smoking hash. BAN WATER!

Evil_Bilbo · 20-06-2006 04:14PM

Its interesting to see the pro drug (esp weed) arguments and the anti-drug arguments. While its up to the individual (usually influenced by friends etc) - the illegal drugs are mostly illegal for a reason. They are quite harmful (in excess). Sure there are more alcohol and smoking related deaths than drugs - why do you think that is? Because they're legal. Because there's a far greater percentage of the population drinking and smoking than there are taking drugs on a regular basis.

If all drugs were legal people would try them alot more and possibly become addicted to them aswell. You can imagine people who would never go to the trouble of looking for drugs from "dealers" (or fear breaking the law) might decide to "try it out" if it was legal. Obviously not everyone would, and probably not even a tenth of these people would become "addicted", but there's a big difference between being addicted and just liking something alot. I enjoy the auld doob, but am certainly not addicted. I've been off it for over 2 months (for reasons I wont bother to go into). Yes it miss it, but not as much as I'd miss being off the drink for 2 months.

If many of you out there did say, cocaine (or some other hard drug) as often as you drink (or spend as much money or time on it), then you may be classed as a "drug addict" even though you have it under control. Yet you are not classed as an "alcoholic" even though you drink say 3 nights a week. This is purely because of the law and the stigmas attached with drug use.

If drugs were legal, more people would take/try drugs, then more deaths / accidents / (maybe crime) would start popping up. Seeing as there is nowhere near the amount of people on drugs as there are on drink, their dangers are not as well documented. There are stupid stories on both sides (pro and anti drugs) due to, well, a bit of a lack of data as well as a lack of understanding. People dying from bad e's, people o/ding on hash, herion not being all that bad for you. These are some examples of info founded on once off situations, and cannot be applied to everyone in every situation.

Myself, I wouldnt advise you either way, if you're gonna take them, or not, nothing I say will change that. It depends on the type of person you are. I've tried pretty much everything legal and not legal (barring the likes of peyote and herion) on and off for a few years - and enjoyed myself in the process, but I would generally say - anything is dangerous in excess

If you're going to do something, just do it in moderation, and if you're going to do mushrooms, acid or any other psychadelic "mind-bending" substances, just do them in a safe, friendly, pleasant environment (preferably during the day and among friends - again in moderation). Just remember - they last a very long time and it seems even longer when you're on them, there's no way to snap out of it. This is fantastic if you're having a really good time, but obviously the opposite is true if you're having a really bad time.

Sorry if this comes off a bit preachy, but well, its true. And back to the original post. Was the question "why isnt peyote and salvia illegalized"? - its generally because the government dont know what they are, that they are legal, and are used by so few people they are not worth worrying about.

Drugs, Legal and illegal ones.

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