Ireland another US state

thebaz · 31-05-2006 06:58PM

I forgot to mention our preppie tennagers going around in their American -Eagle/ Abercromie gear at Eddie Rockets , the googleland phenomon , most large American Multinationals having an outpost here in sunny Ireland . There are many good point in our Californiasation , more jobs , good to have Dell, Microsoft, Google , Yahoo etc etc here -- they boost economy -- the point of the article was that these institutions could pack up in the future to cheaper climes such as India, China, Eastern Europe . In fact many sucessfully and unsuccessfully such as Dell have done just that.

Gandhi · 31-05-2006 07:00PM

A lot of times when you go down to DC there will be a few nutjobs protesting that DC should get stateship, or one of those free newspapers will be having a campaign for it. Whatever slogan they are using, it typically has "51st State" in it somewhere.

Manic Moran · 31-05-2006 07:15PM

Puerto Rico is jokingly referred to as the 51st state.

Curiously, Puerto Ricans, although they hold US Passports, have no voting rights in the US. Their representative in Congress, Louis Fortuno, Republican, also has no voting rights.

There have been referenda on the issue in 1967, 1993 and 1998, in all three cases, the citizens of Puerto Rico chose to maintain the status as it is.

NTM

metrovelvet · 31-05-2006 07:20PM

Yes and they get social security, welfare and medicaid benefits.

We are quite aware that we have an empire. I'm neither surprised nor offended.

simu · 31-05-2006 08:29PM

OP, have you been to the US? It's pretty damn different from here tbh.

bonkey · 31-05-2006 08:42PM

robinph wrote:

PuertoRico and what ever the other little island in the caribbean.

That would be Guam - the worse-off one.

dr zoidberg · 31-05-2006 10:20PM

Guam's in the Pacific

But yeah, Ireland is becoming a lot like the US, but I don't think any much more so than the rest of Europe, maybe a little more due to the language. The whole process of "globalisation" is really just one of Americanisation, and american culture is whitewashing everyone elses in the world - go anywhere developed and people will be wearing jeans, eating at McDonald's, drinking Coca-cola etc. It's sad because we are losing our soul, but it's not just us it's all of the so-called "west".

Of course there are still a lot of unique things about us, and we need to do everything possible to preserve our identity.

DublinWriter · 31-05-2006 10:33PM

We're far closer to the states than we like to admit.

But anytime anyone levels that accusation at us we always fall back on the good auld 'ooohh but we're members of the EU' patter.

Like the states, we don't have a functioning health care system and most of us subscribe to private health care schemes.

Like the states, we're law\litigation crazy. Mention anything barely legally naughty and people froth at the mouth. Boards.ie is a great case in point. I just came from a thread started by someone asking about newsgroups and NNTP. A mod threatened to close the thread stating that he/she/it didn't want anything to do with warez being discussed, yet there was no previous talk about warez at all. Secondly, like the states, you won't see an uneven paving stone around Dublin city as the council are scared people may sue. I've worked in Brussels, Paris and Frankfurt and lost count of the number of times I've nearly went arse over tit on paving stones.

Like the states, we think that poor people are poor because they are lazy. Feck all idea of social inclusion. I'm all right Jack, stuff you.

Like the states, we work hard, not smart. Always make sure the boss sees you working early\late, although you might be surfing the Internet for all he/she/it knows.

Or in other words, like the states, we honestly believe that 'arbeit macht frei'.

...now I wonder where they got that particular idea from?!

thebaz · 01-06-2006 12:38AM

simu wrote:

OP, have you been to the US? It's pretty damn different from here tbh.

Did i not state in my original post that i lived there -- and in my opinion Ireland is pretty damn similar - for your information i lived in Seattle which even had similar weather.

01-06-2006 12:48AM

thebaz wrote:

Have we become the 52nd state of America ?

Just curious. Like what's the name of the 51st state? And don't tell me Tony Blairland. The last time I travelled my homeland, there were only 50 states. DC is not a state (although maybe a in a state of Bushy confusion). Nor are the territories like Puerto Rico or Guam.

Now to address the OP topic. There may be some truth to what (s)he says. For example, one of the best brews in the world is Guinness from Dublin (not that stuff manufactured in the UK or Canada by the same name). But for some reason, that poor quality, mass produced swill that we carelessly make in the states called Bud is having record sales in Ireland.

mang87 · 01-06-2006 12:58AM

I'm not american. I atleast have a basic grasp of geogprapy.

thebaz · 01-06-2006 01:03AM

as you can see from previous posts in this thread, it is not crystal clear if Washington DC is counted -- again as stated previously my Geography was never too hot -- 50 or 51 who cares anyway -- thats not the point i'm making. Sitting in Eddie Rockets, walking in Dundrum mall , or sipping Starbucks coffee watching the SUVs go by , reminds of the U.S. I myself like much of American culture , music, film ... and dislike other aspects such as Mr. Bush, McDonalds.

lostexpectation · 01-06-2006 01:16AM

Manic Moran wrote:

Curiously, Puerto Ricans, although they hold US Passports, have no voting rights in the US. Their representative in Congress, Louis Fortuno, Republican, also has no voting rights.

There have been referenda on the issue in 1967, 1993 and 1998, in all three cases, the citizens of Puerto Rico chose to maintain the status as it is.

NTM

saw this program on discovery once where these puerto rican independist blew up some america fighter planes (while on the ground in the base on their island) that was cool

and end I think there base get reaped by a tornado then later Nature 1 - USA 0

dochasach · 01-06-2006 01:16AM

ionapaul wrote:

I...The question is are we becoming more similar as times goes on, is this a good thing and what are people's opinions of how this should change (if at all) going forward? ...

Obvious differences:
The Irish still retains a healthy connection with the outside world, much more travel, slightly more likely to speak a 2nd language and a stronger tendency to charity and worker rights. Irish musicians, on average, have much more talent. We have a "slap the wrist" and "coddle the criminal" approach to crime. They throw a minor offender in prison for years beyond our maximum sentence and ask questions later. We are a demographically young country and occasionally naieve.

Similarities: By some measures, Ireland's wealth disparity is 2nd only to the U.S. and wealth is similarly focused on a handful of cities in each country. We're as much in love with cars as they. I'm seeing bigger cars and SUVs here all of the time. I saw a hummer in Dublin a few days ago and we're encouraged to spend our SSIA's on 3 liter cars. The "American dream" of owning a home is also the Irish dream and obsession. Citizens of both nations are self-assured that they deserve every bit of prosperity they have and more. They are certain that they are right and everyone else is wrong. In the Irish capital, people are building a life which matches the dream of wealth portrayed in American T.V. and cinema. If the U.S. is the most litigious society in the world, Ireland must be a close 2nd. We're both net immigration nations, we take in a few 10s of thousands, they take in a few 10s of millions. They have approximately 20,000 undocumented, untaxed Irish living and 10 million other untaxed, undocumented people living there. The politicians there use xenophobic fear of all immigrants to furthur their political careers. We focus the resources of our justice system on the antics of a handful of misguided Afghan refugees while we let a child rapist go free.

Archeron · 01-06-2006 08:12AM

We're becoming like America??? Oh no, quick someone ring the Ethiopian government and ask them to send us some of their cultural advisors so we can nip this in the bud.......

Manic Moran · 01-06-2006 08:34AM

lostexpectation wrote:

saw this program on discovery once where these puerto rican independist blew up some america fighter planes (while on the ground in the base on their island) that was cool and end I think there base get reaped by a tornado then later Nature 1 - USA 0

There's a bit of an interesting footnote on that.

About three years ago, maybe four, there were protests/demands etc to have a live-fire bombing range on one end of the island that the Navy was using taken out of service. It took a while, as the US Navy doesn't have that many live bombing ranges on that side of the US.

Finally, the military gave in, and said "OK. We'll do what you want. We'll close the bombing range and the associated base" and they pulled out.

Within months the locals were complaining that the economy in that part of the country had collapsed as it turned out it was dependent on the military base.

NTM

r3nu4l · 01-06-2006 09:53AM

metrovelvet wrote:

Ireland seems to be far more English than American. Its political models, its educational systems, its cuisine, its clothes and customs seem to be green coloured versions of whatever is in Britain.

Having lived in the UK for a while I can say this is not true. The Irish educational system is far different (and better IMO) than that of the UK.
Our (Irish) customs and people are far different too. Our work practices are different. Our manners and the way in which we treat others, our openness and friendliness are all far better than in the UK.

Only 2 weeks ago a Greek friend of mine was in Galway (with my gf and a gang of Dublin girls) and remarked how Irish people were far more open and friendly than the English (she lives in Cambridge, as do I). Ireland and the people of Ireland are far different, yes we have a few post-colonial systems that resemble British systems but even our courts are losing the wigs and gowns soon

As for being a US state, no way, Irish customer service is really, really crap and whatever we might think we do not have the same level of fanatical pride in our country as Americans do, nor do we always think we are right! We begrudge the success of others, unlike Americans, we have strong public sector unions, unlike the US. We have a good welfare system, unlike the US...

For every similarity there are probably two or three differences.

Esel · 01-06-2006 11:06AM

IMO, Israel is the 51st state. Nice company we'd be in!

FillSpectre · 01-06-2006 11:32AM

People in Ireland seem to think we are living the american dream and this is destroying our culture.
Nonsense, first off America is huge and has many cultures both ethnic and location based

Secondly we have social welfare. THe difference this makes is massive.

To use David McWilliams as a refence is hillarious. He didn't coin the phrase "Celtic Tiger" yet people think he did. He is a media opinion person. I wouldn't trust Joe Duffy to tell me what the world is like why would I trust McWilliams who does the same ****e on TV?

thebaz · 01-06-2006 11:46AM

FillSpectre wrote:

People in Ireland seem to think we are living the american dream and this is destroying our culture.
Nonsense, first off America is huge and has many cultures both ethnic and location based

Secondly we have social welfare. THe difference this makes is massive.

To use David McWilliams as a refence is hillarious. He didn't coin the phrase "Celtic Tiger" yet people think he did. He is a media opinion person. I wouldn't trust Joe Duffy to tell me what the world is like why would I trust McWilliams who does the same ****e on TV?

Don't know if he did or did not coint the phrase , but he is a respected economist , and best selling author and social commentator on the Ireland of today - so i do think his views can be referenced -- he is not the first social commentator to notice this trend of Americanisation -- Mary Harney stated we are closer to Boston than Berlin a few years ago -- about once a month the Irish Times document this transformation -- whether its Starbucks, Dundrum etc etc .

EWheelChair · 01-06-2006 11:47AM

Man i was driving to work this morning and dropping my nephew off at school first when we passed a skip driver, carrying a skip. We have a skip at home and he asked me..

"Is that our dumpster?"

It's all the disney cartoons he watches. His little brother is the same, he was at the circus a few weeks ago and asked "can we go to the store and get some cotton candy?"

It's sickening!

metrovelvet · 01-06-2006 02:11PM

esel wrote:

IMO, Israel is the 51st state. Nice company we'd be in!

Lol. That's funny. After 911 and NYC had American flags everywhere. Someone was putting up signs that said "USA get out of NYC."

My mother saw them and said "thats because they think its an extention of Isreal, Jew York City."

lostexpectation · 01-06-2006 03:50PM

Manic Moran wrote:

There's a bit of an interesting footnote on that.

About three years ago, maybe four, there were protests/demands etc to have a live-fire bombing range on one end of the island that the Navy was using taken out of service. It took a while, as the US Navy doesn't have that many live bombing ranges on that side of the US.

Finally, the military gave in, and said "OK. We'll do what you want. We'll close the bombing range and the associated base" and they pulled out.

Within months the locals were complaining that the economy in that part of the country had collapsed as it turned out it was dependent on the military base.

NTM

which locals the selfish greedy ones or the anti-military ones? I doubt it. I think they should demand alternative laboru sources.

FillSpectre · 01-06-2006 04:04PM

thebaz wrote:

Don't know if he did or did not coint the phrase , but he is a respected economist , and best selling author and social commentator on the Ireland of today - so i do think his views can be referenced -- he is not the first social commentator to notice this trend of Americanisation -- Mary Harney stated we are closer to Boston than Berlin a few years ago -- about once a month the Irish Times document this transformation -- whether its Starbucks, Dundrum etc etc .

Actually he is a media journalist who makes his money out of being in the media eye. His views can be referenced but the point is he isn't right because he says something. He is essentially an entertainer now like Eddie Hobbes is. Do you actually think they saw what they feel of what makes them get paid?

Mary Harney's quote is a rehashed hack of statement. She didn't say it first and she won't be the last to say it. If you think she is the first to come out with that then I suggest you read some more. Don't confuse globalisation with americanisation. Zara is Spanish and in the US maybe it as we become more like America, America becomes more like us. That is a rehash of the old deal with the devil where somebody agrees with the devil that devil will become more like him and the devil will in turn the man will become more like the devil. AS time goes on the man becomes more like the devil and devil becomes more like the devil as the man is doing this.

DOn't get sucked into the insestious irish media as it can't be trusted and papers are becoming magazines of opinion.

Kernel32 · 01-06-2006 04:28PM

Ruu wrote:

Ireland doesnt get any special treatment from the US like it once did despite all the lick arshes in the government bending over backwards to help the US military and such.

I beg to differ. Ireland gets $10million to $20million a year in aid from the United States for the International Fund for Ireland. Why? I have no idea. Ireland is a wealthy country now and should not be accepting that money. It comes out of my taxes and your taxes.

Gandhi · 01-06-2006 04:42PM

Doesn't most of the International Fund for Ireland go to impoverished parts of Belfast and Derry? Which is officially in the Yookay?

thebaz · 01-06-2006 05:00PM

FillSpectre wrote:

Actually he is a media journalist who makes his money out of being in the media eye. His views can be referenced but the point is he isn't right because he says something. He is essentially an entertainer now like Eddie Hobbes is. Do you actually think they saw what they feel of what makes them get paid?

Mary Harney's quote is a rehashed hack of statement. She didn't say it first and she won't be the last to say it. If you think she is the first to come out with that then I suggest you read some more. Don't confuse globalisation with americanisation. Zara is Spanish and in the US maybe it as we become more like America, America becomes more like us. That is a rehash of the old deal with the devil where somebody agrees with the devil that devil will become more like him and the devil will in turn the man will become more like the devil. AS time goes on the man becomes more like the devil and devil becomes more like the devil as the man is doing this.

DOn't get sucked into the insestious irish media as it can't be trusted and papers are becoming magazines of opinion.

Whats your point ??
are you saying i shouldn't have started this thread , because i haven't met your high standards ?
What has the devil got anything to do with this thread , maybe you should stick to the topic , instead of picking bones with my postings !

astrofool · 01-06-2006 05:34PM

simu wrote:

OP, have you been to the US? It's pretty damn different from here tbh.

I think its just a media thing really. There is a huge difference between living in the states and here, in every which way. Also, the states has a huge variety of different cultures depending on the area you're in, whereas here its Dublin, or not Dublin

eiretamicha · 01-06-2006 07:11PM

astrofool wrote:

I think its just a media thing really. There is a huge difference between living in the states and here, in every which way. Also, the states has a huge variety of different cultures depending on the area you're in, whereas here its Dublin, or not Dublin

I agree. I can tell ya one thing...living in the states vs. living in Ireland? Huge friggin' difference. I mean Massive. Massive with a capital M.

Of course there are minor similarities...half of this country is made up of yous people anyway!

All I know is that I never knew there was any other way to live before I moved overseas. Now that I'm back here in the states, I can't wait to leave again. *shrug* It's a matter of opinion and personal experience, I suppose.

trillianv · 01-06-2006 07:17PM

thebaz wrote:

as you can see from previous posts in this thread, it is not crystal clear if Washington DC is counted -- again as stated previously my Geography was never too hot -- 50 or 51 who cares anyway

Actually it's pretty simple...there are 50 states. I have never referred nor heard referred to DC as the "51st" State. Just to make it "crystal clear"

And Ireland is a lot more like the UK than the US. When I first moved over here, I thought that it would be simple to acclimate myself to the culture and society here. I hit a major culture shock in the first month and everyone kept asking me what was so different from the US....my only answer is everything. Whilst Ireland is picking up parts of the American culture (i.e. high spending, high debt etc) that are not that nicer bits of America, you guys don't seem to mind so much as to stop emigrating to the US or going there for working holidays on J1s.

Also as an American here....I can't stand American tourists nor most of the crap commercialism we have exported here, but there is obviously a market for it and the Irish must be shopping/eating at these establishments.

Ireland another US state

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