The AIRCORPS thread to end all threads!

godfather69er · 21-04-2006 11:01PM

Blowfish wrote:

Secure from what? You must be joking if you think that the Irish Army could withstand an invasion/attack from another country.

what happens if a hijacked plane enters irish airspace?? we will have to get the R.A.F to scramble tornados, its a disgrace and we would be the laughing stock of the world if this happend.
WE were offered F-16s by the yanks a few years ago but refused them.
true they cost alot to arm and maintain but we need a few supersonic combat aircraft, also if a hijacked planes 'pilot' sees a ****ing cessna he will laugh at it, but if he see a fully loaded F-16 he is going to **** himself.
and there should be some going cheap as the usaf and us navy are getting the new F-22

Pherekydes · 21-04-2006 11:02PM

Slow coach wrote:

And an aircraft. Shear.

I stand corrected. It is, of course, shaft.

Pherekydes · 21-04-2006 11:06PM

godfather69er wrote:

...its a disgrace and we would be the laughing stock of the world if this happend.

The RAF routinely scrambles choppers to fly from Wales across Ireland to pick up people off the west coast. It already happens.

andrew163 · 21-04-2006 11:17PM

We'll probably *eventually* get some sort of jets in our air force - if only for the purpose of shooting down hijackers... but for the moment we just can't afford them. IAC - been in a hospital or to a primary school lately? There are more important things to be spending our money on than maintaining big shiny things that make big noises and will sit there doing nothing 95% of the time. An F-16 isn't going to be useful for search and rescue or aerial surveillance, but a Cessna could be due to it's incredibly low speed. (a bit like that scene out of the simpsons... "target's velocity is insufficient for air to air intercept, suggest we get out and walk"

)

When we do get them it'll probably be as part of some big European air force anyway... either that or our population and economy will have grown to a size that generates enough tax revenue to support them.. (quite a while to go before that happens)

And if a country did ever try to invade Ireland.... chances are it would be part of WW3.. in which case all hell would be breaking loose and we'd have bigger things to worry about than an air force.. (like nukes falling on Dublin)

<edit>as for choppers and the propellor-based "fighters" we have now... they ARE being upgraded to modern standards</edit>

patbundy · 21-04-2006 11:20PM

Slow coach wrote:

The RAF routinely scrambles choppers to fly from Wales across Ireland to pick up people off the west coast. It already happens.

and what does that means to to you ,having the RAF over flying this country doing a good job,a job that the aircorp is suppose to do but they cant thru lack of investment and all we get is pencilpushers replies

patbundy · 21-04-2006 11:24PM

andrew163 wrote:

We'll probably *eventually* get some sort of jets in our air force - if only for the purpose of shooting down hijackers... but for the moment we just can't afford them. IAC - been in a hospital or to a primary school lately? There are more important things to be spending our money on than maintaining big shiny things that make big noises and will sit there doing nothing 95% of the time. An F-16 isn't going to be useful for search and rescue or aerial surveillance, but a Cessna could be due to it's incredibly low speed. (a bit like that scene out of the simpsons... "target's velocity is insufficient for air to air intercept, suggest we get out and walk" )

When we do get them it'll probably be as part of some big European air force anyway... either that or our population and economy will have grown to a size that generates enough tax revenue to support them.. (quite a while to go before that happens)

And if a country did ever try to invade Ireland.... chances are it would be part of WW3.. in which case all hell would be breaking loose and we'd have bigger things to worry about than an air force.. (like nukes falling on Dublin)

like what,a pencilpusher deciding should we see a nurse or a doctor

Pherekydes · 21-04-2006 11:37PM

patbundy wrote:

and what does that means to to you ,having the RAF over flying this country doing a good job,a job that the aircorp is suppose to do but they cant thru lack of investment and all we get is pencilpushers replies

You've answered your own question, there.

I didn't vote them in. But would anybody else be any better? They did finally provide SAR cover for the west coast, but it wasn't the AC.

IMHO, we should be able to provide SAR cover for our own coastal waters.

godfather69er · 21-04-2006 11:41PM

andrew163 wrote:

We'll probably *eventually* get some sort of jets in our air force - if only for the purpose of shooting down hijackers... but for the moment we just can't afford them. IAC - been in a hospital or to a primary school lately? There are more important things to be spending our money on than maintaining big shiny things that make big noises and will sit there doing nothing 95% of the time. An F-16 isn't going to be useful for search and rescue or aerial surveillance, but a Cessna could be due to it's incredibly low speed. (a bit like that scene out of the simpsons... "target's velocity is insufficient for air to air intercept, suggest we get out and walk" )

When we do get them it'll probably be as part of some big European air force anyway... either that or our population and economy will have grown to a size that generates enough tax revenue to support them.. (quite a while to go before that happens)

And if a country did ever try to invade Ireland.... chances are it would be part of WW3.. in which case all hell would be breaking loose and we'd have bigger things to worry about than an air force.. (like nukes falling on Dublin)

<edit>as for choppers and the propellor-based "fighters" we have now... they ARE being upgraded to modern standards</edit>

are you for real????? you can upgrade a heap of **** shed with wings all you want, it still doesnt mean its adequite. maybe the army might start putting bodykits on their tanks and a huuge exhaust to make it sound the business??? i guarantee you this country is already a laughing stock, all the ass licking and stupid comments about everybody likes us....reality check they dont, the country is a joke.
i really have pity on the air corps pilots flying those things that were designed in the 50s.
FACT: in ww2 any allied or axis aircraft thet crashed here was salvaged, repaired and given our flag.

The air corps had spitfire aircraft and sold them, from what i can see we went backwards doing this, they were a fantastic aircraft better than a modified cessna.

we need F-16 or similar combat aircraft this neutrality thing is bull**** there is going to be a time when the air corps WILL need to bring down another aircraft and we dont have the machinary to do it.personally if a towel head decides to bomb ireland or iran attacks the u.s or any of our allies i will join the USAF and get my hands on a proper machine and fight coz we are in the western world we are more like america than the middle east(we dont start a war because sombody forgot to fart at 7a.m or a woman showed here face) and i would rather live like americans than like arabs. and if there is any of these 'anti-war' muppets here ye can **** off, bin laden will happily cut your throat or blow you up. ranting a bit i know but this is my position on it.

andrew163 · 21-04-2006 11:48PM

Consider the following: (i'm working under the assumption that human life > national pride)

We could:
(a) Have a great air force. Well equipped to do everything it needs to do - SAR, surveillence [helping large ground escorts], security [shooting down Ryanair flights when they start trying to fly into liberty hall], and even looking good for air shows. Unfortunately, unless you've got some magical trick up your sleave to generate vast amounts of money, we cannot afford that. The only way to fund it would be to massively cut back on other areas, like education and healthcare. Cut back too much on healthcare and lots of people start to die (you ahve to admit we're hardly in a great position when it comes to that kinda thing as it is.. if it was any worse it'd be catastrophic). Roads start to fall apart moreso than they are already, our population becomes about as bright as a dead lightbulb due to a lack of decent education, and we have no public transport.

(b) Have things as they are now - have a tiny air force that does only basic tasks and asks our neighbour (who is more than willing to help, even if only for the purpose of showing off) for help if we can't handle it. In exchange we get the services we have now. Which aren't great but at least they exist. Mostly.

Which of those scenarios makes Ireland more of a laughing stock? A modern 21st century country without fighter jets is one thing but a modern 21st century country without hospitals, schools, colleges or public transport is quite another thing...

<edit>and yes, if some "towel-head" (as you so gracefully put it) decides to attack.....
If it's a terror attack then having a large army won't help. An intelligence agency and some properly trained Gardaí perhaps.

If it's a full scale invasion you're talking about then they'll have had to go through the entire EU to get to us...and..if they're able to do that then we wouldn't stand a chance anyway</edit>

BendiBus · 21-04-2006 11:50PM

godfather69er wrote:

what happens if a hijacked plane enters irish airspace?? we will have to get the R.A.F to scramble tornados, its a disgrace and we would be the laughing stock of the world if this happend.
WE were offered F-16s by the yanks a few years ago but refused them.
true they cost alot to arm and maintain but we need a few supersonic combat aircraft, also if a hijacked planes 'pilot' sees a ****ing cessna he will laugh at it, but if he see a fully loaded F-16 he is going to **** himself.
and there should be some going cheap as the usaf and us navy are getting the new F-22

Could I point out that

a) the US has shedloads of supersonic interceptors and the twin towers still came down.
b) when the Ryanair aircraft with the bombscare over the UK last week was directed to Prestwick it had to orbit to wait for the Tornados to scramble to intercept it

patbundy · 21-04-2006 11:51PM

Slow coach wrote:

You've answered your own question, there.

I didn't vote them in. But would anybody else be any better? They did finally provide SAR cover for the west coast, but it wasn't the AC.

IMHO, we should be able to provide SAR cover for our own coastal waters.

totally agree with you.hospitals are getting the money they want but its being mismanaged ,the schools can do with more money,even a blindman can see that.the aircorp dont need supersonic aircraft and never did ask for them,all they are asking for is more up to date aircraft like the harrier,seaking hellos and proper transport planes.the new choppers they are getting are a joke

patbundy · 22-04-2006 12:00AM

BendiBus wrote:

Could I point out that

a) the US has shedloads of supersonic interceptors and the twin towers still came down.
b) when the Ryanair aircraft with the bombscare over the UK last week was directed to Prestwick it had to orbit to wait for the Tornados to scramble to intercept it

you dont need supersonic aircraft to bring down a plane,1 handheld missile launcher would do that,

patbundy · 22-04-2006 12:09AM

had enough of this tonight guys.going to watch some porn,at least that makes some sense,bye guys till the next time

Manic Moran · 22-04-2006 12:09AM

patbundy wrote:

you dont need supersonic aircraft to bring down a plane,1 handheld missile launcher would do that,

Only if the target airplane in question is co-operating by flying at about 10,000 feet or less. MANPADS are low-altitude systems only.

An F-16 isn't going to be useful for search and rescue or aerial surveillance,

Curiously, of all the various aircraft that the nicely funded Dutch military could have sent to conduct the search for the Holloway girl in Aruba, they sent three F-16s with sensor pods. They have electronic abilities which a slow Cessna does not. There is, of course, a compromise available, for example more aircraft such as the Garda Defender, or purpose-built patrol/SAR aircraft, but they do not have the ability to conduct multiple types of missions which, if you're on a budget, would be somewhat required.

On a pedantic note, I believe rotary wing aircraft do qualify as an 'airplane', as the fundamentals of lift are the same. The only difference is the cause of the air passing over the lifting plane.

NTM

WhiteWashMan · 22-04-2006 12:12AM

godfather69er wrote:

are you for real????? you can upgrade a heap of **** shed with wings all you want, it still doesnt mean its adequite. maybe the army might start putting bodykits on their tanks and a huuge exhaust to make it sound the business??? .

and dont forget the 'no fear' sticker!

Pherekydes · 22-04-2006 12:13AM

patbundy wrote:

going to watch some porn...

You must be ex-army. That's all they do...

patbundy · 22-04-2006 12:19AM

Slow coach wrote:

You must be ex-army. That's all they do...

ha ha ha ha,never was .

patbundy · 22-04-2006 12:22AM

Manic Moran wrote:

Only if the target airplane in question is co-operating by flying at about 10,000 feet or less. MANPADS are low-altitude systems only.

Curiously, of all the various aircraft that the nicely funded Dutch military could have sent to conduct the search for the Holloway girl in Aruba, they sent three F-16s with sensor pods. They have electronic abilities which a slow Cessna does not. There is, of course, a compromise available, for example more aircraft such as the Garda Defender, or purpose-built patrol/SAR aircraft, but they do not have the ability to conduct multiple types of missions which, if you're on a budget, would be somewhat required.

On a pedantic note, I believe rotary wing aircraft do qualify as an 'airplane', as the fundamentals of lift are the same. The only difference is the cause of the air passing over the lifting plane.

NTM

the irish army has a hand held launcher that reaches 3000 ft but you buy on the market that will go as high as 30,ooo ft and it will cost the same as the army paid for theirs

patbundy · 22-04-2006 12:30AM

m m i dont know why if its a plane its called a fix wing aircraft but if its hello its called a rotary,not a rotory aircraft just a rotary,again why i dont know maybe cos of the fact you need 2 diff lincences to fly them

patbundy · 22-04-2006 12:32AM

im knackered,sorry if i insulted anyone here tonight,c ya guys

fightin irish · 22-04-2006 01:38AM

Wow. I havn't read a thread as amusing as this on boards.ie in a long time. The OP had one or two valid points alright but he just went f***ing nuts a post or two later:p
I get the impression that the op and the guy currently watching p0rn are not excatly out of school/nappies yet.

In reference to godfather saying something along the lines of ''the country is a laughing stock'' etc, If this is in relation to its military im afraid your way off the mark.
Ireland as a UN force are constantly hailed as 'men who get the job done..always'' In Liberia they are or atleast were the emergency response unit(flown in by the Swedes i think). But it is deemed Ireland is the more experienced with better trained officers than any of the multi force in Liberia. My sources night be biased(as i have many friends in the defence forces, currently serving in Liberia)

Anyways...yeah i had a slight cringe at the overflight but for ffs you need to get your prioritys in order. Im sure we will have Jets, More likely as part of a Euro force.

As the neutrality comments...I can't back this up but i am informed the ARW(army ranger wing) were along with Australian special forces on shoot to kill missions in Sierra Leone the whole time they were there. (anyone remember the funny pics with bertie and the ARW with thier faces exposed in the herald and on the same day i think the star had the same pic with thier faces balcked out:p )

And i've managed to go waay off topic twice. Sorry!

patbundy · 22-04-2006 01:51AM

fightin irish wrote:

Wow. I havn't read a thread as amusing as this on boards.ie in a long time. The OP had one or two valid points alright but he just went f***ing nuts a post or two later:p
I get the impression that the op and the guy currently watching p0rn are not excatly out of school/nappies yet.

In reference to godfather saying something along the lines of ''the country is a laughing stock'' etc, If this is in relation to its military im afraid your way off the mark.
Ireland as a UN force are constantly hailed as 'men who get the job done..always'' In Liberia they are or atleast were the emergency response unit(flown in by the Swedes i think). But it is deemed Ireland is the more experienced with better trained officers than any of the multi force in Liberia. My sources night be biased(as i have many friends in the defence forces, currently serving in Liberia)

Anyways...yeah i had a slight cringe at the overflight but for ffs you need to get your prioritys in order. Im sure we will have Jets, More likely as part of a Euro force.

As the neutrality comments...I can't back this up but i am informed the ARW(army ranger wing) were along with Australian special forces on shoot to kill missions in Sierra Leone the whole time they were there. (anyone remember the funny pics with bertie and the ARW with thier faces exposed in the herald and on the same day i think the star had the same pic with thier faces balcked out:p )

And i've managed to go waay off topic twice. Sorry!

your right about arw they were that opp but your wrong about me.the last time i seen a nappy was 22 years ago and that was on my baby daughter

coolhandluke · 22-04-2006 01:55AM

Ireland has some of the best ground troops and probably the best special forces in the world,the problem is our Air Corp is a crock of ****.When our troops are abroad they are dependent on other army's to get them off the ground.Irish pilots with there own aircraft would fly to hell and back to get their comrades out of trouble,can the same be said for african,russian, scandinavian pilots,i don't think so.The irish government are a DISGRACE leaving our troops high and dry in a foreign land,if there was some disaster i'm sure the crocodile tears would be only flowing from the current government.

patbundy · 22-04-2006 01:58AM

just remember the congo is on the agenda again,are we going bury more of our boys cos of the stupidy of a few

patbundy · 22-04-2006 02:05AM

coolhandluke wrote:

Ireland has some of the best ground troops and probably the best special forces in the world,the problem is our Air Corp is a crock of ****.When our troops are abroad they are dependent on other army's to get them off the ground.Irish pilots with there own aircraft would fly to hell and back to get their comrades out of trouble,can the same be said for african,russian, scandinavian pilots,i don't think so.The irish government are a DISGRACE leaving our troops high and dry in a foreign land,if there was some disaster i'm sure the crocodile tears would be only flowing from the current government.

true,keep repeating that to the bleeding hearts,if we send troops abroad we must be able to back them up but im afraid theres too many people on here tonight think the aircorp is a taxi for fat berti and fat porky pig

fightin irish · 22-04-2006 02:11AM

patbundy wrote:

just remember the congo is on the agenda again,are we going bury more of our boys cos of the stupidy of a few

what was ''the stupidy of a few'' in the Congo? Do enlighten me.

patbundy · 22-04-2006 02:22AM

fightin irish wrote:

what was ''the stupidy of a few'' in the Congo? Do enlighten me.

the first time the boys was on a un mission was in the congo.it was like lambs to the slaughter,ill prepared and ill equipped ,no back up.why should we send troops into these kind of places when we cant back them up.brass is talking with the un at mo about sending irish in there again

Mr_Roger_Bongos · 22-04-2006 02:27AM

I have no military knowledge of the ins and outs of the Irish Army/Airforce or Navy, the following assumptions are based on common sense.

I have heard from various different sources, that the Irish Army (Rangers especially) are well trained and respected, in the various fields of operations they have been deployed in. Especially considering that we are a small country, with limited resources.

Pat, this threads original poster titled it about the Aircorps. I may be wrong, but i don't think the Aircorps will be heavily involved in the congo. So i assume your refering to the army.

Throughout this thread, apart from a few posters, no one seems to be stressing the crucial issue of finance. If you want an up-to-date aircore, that takes money. Ok, so the government diverts some of it's defense budget to the aircorps, buys a few new choppers and jets. The army loses some money. So we now have our new choppers, so that we can fly in soldiers who aren't trained as well as they previously were

patbundy wrote:

just remember the congo is on the agenda again,are we going bury more of our boys cos of the stupidy of a few

We'll be burying alot more of our boys if they aren't trained/equipped properly, just so that the Irish aircorps could fly them into action. And you say the UN are going to send irish troops in again, surely the UN could be relied on for some 'back up' or organise some at least.

I am a patriot, if this country was attacked and had to defend itself i would sign up straight away. But you have to be realistic, in the grand scheme of things, Ireland is a SMALL country, with a small population, which means the government can't afford a modern airforce (especially when education, health, transport are more pressing concerns). Being small doesn't mean we can't make a positive contribution across the world, be it peace keeping or on other missions, which again, im informed Ireland is very good at.

The services the Aircorps carry out at the minute could nearly be handled by the Gardai (if resources were moved) and it would probably cost less to do so.

Terrorist attacks have been mentionned. Why in under god would terrorists pick Ireland? We're neutral (apart from shannon etc.), we have no enemies diplomatically, and unless they find Oil the midlands then we're not very attractive for invasion. Unless Britian wants us back again, and sure if they do, we've always got the RA :rolleyes::rolleyes:

fightin irish · 22-04-2006 02:38AM

patbundy wrote:

the first time the boys was on a un mission was in the congo.it was like lambs to the slaughter,ill prepared and ill equipped ,no back up.why should we send troops into these kind of places when we cant back them up.brass is talking with the un at mo about sending irish in there again

I am aware of it being Irelands first UN mission. And there is two sides to that story..Lads asleep...Lads swimming in the river etc etc, Did you even see the documentry on ''nationwide'' on RTE. I think it was a christmas special. They followed the Irish lads on night patrol into downtown (forget the name of the cap city:o )in Liberia. They were ARMED TO THE BLOODY TEETH!! They had about five mowags, They were all on headssets etc..they looked like a bunch of effin mad yokes lol straight outta of nam.

Funny thing is the locals said next morning that the place has only gotten safe beacuse the Irish(and they emphasised Irish) troops were heavily patroling day and night.

The shear size of the armoured colums they were patrolling in were massive. You don't need Jets for this type of exercise.

Look i'd love to see f-16's, Euro fighters, etc flying out of Baldonnel but we simply cannot afford it right now. Now maybe if in a few years we went nuclear say....I'd expect to see an immediate overhaul of our Aircore.

coolhandluke · 22-04-2006 02:40AM

Bull****,if we send our troops abroad to a foreign land we owe them the right to every support that they can be given and that includes AIR SUPPORT or "get us the **** out of here" help.
The last time the americans went into a place unprepared they were slaughtered (somalia anyone ?)
Our troops deserve proper heli's both attack and evac,from this government.

The whole terrorist attack flying planes into the GPO senario is just rubbish

The AIRCORPS thread to end all threads!

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