Should we invest in a modern air force?

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:22PM

bigjimthefirst wrote:

If the Guards had the same amount of cars as the Navy has ships, they'd be patrolling the whole of Ireland with just 2 squad cards. Still alright is it? Plus we'll have increased committments in terms of humanitarian efforts, we'll need bigger and more ships to deliver equipment to all corners of the world.

The parade is not an airshow, it's to celebrate the Rising remember those who died fighting in it.

Is it 12 naval ships we have? Im not sure but maybe your right, some investment maybe for the navy instead:rolleyes:

jamiecake · 17-04-2006 04:23PM

yawnnn.. this is why boards bores me.. POINTLESS

hullaballoo · 17-04-2006 04:23PM

The government should collect a few hundred thousand pepsi bottle-caps and get some lear jets. Quick and easy solution.

Vorsprung · 17-04-2006 04:23PM

darkman2 wrote:

Is it 12 naval ships we have? Im not sure but maybe your right, some investment maybe for the navy instead:rolleyes:

We have 8, 1 due to retire pretty soon.

IrishAirCorps · 17-04-2006 04:24PM

jamiecake wrote:

we are a nutural country, we do not need a new air force!!

So is Sweden but they have the first 4th generation fighter the Gripen, they have no enemies yet they had no problem building her, look at Switzerland the are Neutral and yet they have the F18 and among that other Supersonic Jets with no enemies and in order for them to go Supersonic they need to ask Germany or surrounding Countries for permission to use their Airspace for a Supersonic hop, Ireland should invest primarily in Helicopters first and Naval Vessels also, i bet that little of you know that the Irish have to patrol the biggest zone of International water anywhere in the EU, we already rely on the RAF to intercept any AC in trouble etc and to me i deem that as a joke, we are a soverign state and as such we should be able to protect ourselves first, we have the best soldiers in the world for peace keeping and i think we should all be proud of that. But if the Air Corps is to get serious then i suggest getting rid of MATS and concentrate on Heli's first for CSAR,MEDIVAC,TROOP OPS, ARW OPS and Aid to the civil powers and only then should we proceed to having aircraft even if it means only 6-10 figthers thats all we would need anyway for the size of our nation, if i was in charge id but some aircraft that would be a help to ground forces overseas like the A10 Thunderbolt she has it all and id have scrapped the AB139 in preferance for the Blackhawk.

zuma · 17-04-2006 04:30PM

whiskeyman wrote:

let's get a space agency while were at it.......
We'll send the first man to the sun - at night time, coz its turned off then...

We already are part of a space agency....the European Space Agency (ESA)!!!

And no we dont have use or need for an 'Air Force' unless it comes with an aircraft carrier as who are we going to use it against?
Oh...the only reason we proclaim neutrality is because we just dont spend the money on the military and if the sh!t might hit the fan in decades to come we will be depending 100% on the rest of the EU to save us!

The cessnas and turboprop trainers were silly.....but those trainers are required to train the helicopter pilots....which are VERY necessary in Ireland.

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:30PM

IrishAirCorps wrote:

So is Sweden but they have the first 4th generation fighter the Gripen, they have no enemies yet they had no problem building her, look at Switzerland the are Neutral and yet they have the F18 and among that other Supersonic Jets with no enemies and in order for them to go Supersonic they need to ask Germany or surrounding Countries for permission to use their Airspace for a Supersonic hop, Ireland should invest primarily in Helicopters first and Naval Vessels also, i bet that little of you know that the Irish have to patrol the biggest zone of International water anywhere in the EU, we already rely on the RAF to intercept any AC in trouble etc and to me i deem that as a joke, we are a soverign state and as such we should be able to protect ourselves first, we have the best soldiers in the world for peace keeping and i think we should all be proud of that. But if the Air Corps is to get serious then i suggest getting rid of MATS and concentrate on Heli's first for CSAR,MEDIVAC,TROOP OPS, ARW OPS and Aid to the civil powers and only then should we proceed to having aircraft even if it means only 6-10 figthers thats all we would need anyway for the size of our nation, if i was in charge id but some aircraft that would be a help to ground forces overseas like the A10 Thunderbolt she has it all and id have scrapped the AB139 in preferance for the Blackhawk.

I agree completely with that. A point well made about Sweden and Switzerland. We cannot be neutral because we havnt the capacity to defend our own state. No-one takes us seriously when we protest about anything because we dont know what we are talking about. A small squadron as you suggest would be appropriate I reckon only after the rest of the DF is brought up to scratch for our small size:)

zuma · 17-04-2006 04:32PM

netwhizkid wrote:

I think we should invest a few Billion into our Military. A good build programme like Hugo Chavez in instituting in Venezuela would be good. One squadron of about 12 Migs and a few for parts and spares. A helicopter division and a dedicated anti-aircraft division of the Army would be good. We are sharing an Island with hostile neighbors we really need to protect ourselves. After all Dictator for Life Ahern is really showing off now with Military parades. I would also like to see our Military numbers doubled with compulsory service for all fit men & women for three years. Ten years service for non-nationals to guarantee citizenship. We should expand and modernise our Military more. Just simply not buy any American equipment and buy Russian and french only. There is a nuclear reactor in Trinity College and it could be used to enrich uranium. I suggest we make alliances with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, North Korean President Kim Il-sung and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. The Belarussian president Aleksandr Lukashenko could also be an ally in the war on terror:- Countries to be invaded U.S.A, UK and Switzerland just because those pansies are afraid to fight. Our Empire will spread from Valentia Island to the Dardannels.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:32PM

bigjimthefirst wrote:

We have 8, 1 due to retire pretty soon.

Oh dear........

Zillah · 17-04-2006 04:34PM

IrishAirCorps wrote:

So is Sweden but they have the first 4th generation fighter the Gripen, they have no enemies yet they had no problem building her, look at Switzerland the are Neutral and yet they have the F18 and among that other Supersonic Jets with no enemies and in order for them to go Supersonic they need to ask Germany or surrounding Countries for permission to use their Airspace for a Supersonic hop, Ireland should invest primarily in Helicopters first and Naval Vessels also, i bet that little of you know that the Irish have to patrol the biggest zone of International water anywhere in the EU, we already rely on the RAF to intercept any AC in trouble etc and to me i deem that as a joke, we are a soverign state and as such we should be able to protect ourselves first, we have the best soldiers in the world for peace keeping and i think we should all be proud of that. But if the Air Corps is to get serious then i suggest getting rid of MATS and concentrate on Heli's first for CSAR,MEDIVAC,TROOP OPS, ARW OPS and Aid to the civil powers and only then should we proceed to having aircraft even if it means only 6-10 figthers thats all we would need anyway for the size of our nation, if i was in charge id but some aircraft that would be a help to ground forces overseas like the A10 Thunderbolt she has it all and id have scrapped the AB139 in preferance for the Blackhawk.

Excellent post. Colour me convinced.

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 04:36PM

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

aidan_walsh · 17-04-2006 04:40PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

Right. And who would step up to fill the roles they play?

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:41PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to any operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout:mad: We should at least play a small part from time to time.

Zillah · 17-04-2006 04:45PM

darkman2 wrote:

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to any operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout:mad: We should at least play a small part from time to time.

Oh don't be absurd. Ireland has never launched military action outside our own nation other than with UN peace keeping forces. And we're not about to start because the US wants revenge on those evil muslims.

Tar Aldarion wrote:

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

Thats a terrible idea. Our air force and naval service are essential in keeping borders and seas secure and safe, while Irish troops are applauded for their excellent peace keeping abroad. Only a couple weeks ago the war crimes former president of Liberia was captured by Irish forces.

Vorsprung · 17-04-2006 04:46PM

darkman2 wrote:

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to anything operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

We have army officers in Afghanistan.

But I hear what you're saying. We should have our own equipment, and not be relying on other countries (UK) if we find ourselves about to be ****ed. We spend pitifully little on the DF, think it's .9% of GDP. Jets wouldn't be top of the Aer Corps' shopping list I'd say, reckon it'd be more helicopters, and cargo planes.

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 04:46PM

aidan_walsh wrote:

Right. And who would step up to fill the roles they play?

People are paid to do things with money.
I means as regards their military activities, Their secondary roles should be their primary roles and the primary roles abolished.
Also, I may be known to not post seriously in this thread. But which do I believe and what do I not, that's up to you.

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to any operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout We should at least play a small part from time to time.

Lets face it, Ireland couldn't make much of a difference, look at who they would have to be against and the sheer amount money thrown at their armies. The money could be better spent improving our country.

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:49PM

Zillah wrote:

Oh don't be absurd. Ireland has never launched military action outside our own nation other than with UN peace keeping forces. And we're not about to start because the US wants revenge on those evil muslims.

Being selective there as to how youve misread my post. Im saying Ireland should try to contribute, if not then we should just shut up and stay out of it. I am well aware Ireland could only contribute very little even if its miltitary was upgraded.

hullaballoo · 17-04-2006 04:49PM

darkman2 wrote:

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to anything operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout We should at least play a small part from time to time.

What the fcuk? Who do you suppose we should use this airforce against? We're neutral for a reason: we have fcuk all choice. If we were to get involved in any sort of warfare, we'd be beaten into a sorry paste.

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 04:51PM

hullaballoo wrote:

What the fcuk? Who do you suppose we should use this airforce against? We're neutral for a reason: we have fcuk all choice. If we were to get involved in any sort of warfare, we'd be beaten into a sorry paste.

Exactly, we don't need to have a military presence in Ireland, spend millions on something that could be quashed at a blink of another nation.
It's better to leave them at it and have a sweet country.

The only presence there should be is for rescue operations, watching our borders for vessels etc. I don't think it would even be called the military then...

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:52PM

hullaballoo wrote:

What the fcuk? Who do you suppose we should use this airforce against? We're neutral for a reason: we have fcuk all choice. If we were to get involved in any sort of warfare, we'd be beaten into a sorry paste. Grow up man.

You cant be neutral if you cant defend your neutrality - fact. Im being mis-qouted here or else ppl are on purposely mis-reading what im saying. Im not saying we alone take part in 'war-fare' (we cant). Im saying we contribute what we can to efforts from other countries.

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 04:55PM

'Our air force and naval service are essential in keeping borders and seas secure and safe.'

The whole point is they cant:rolleyes:

Ruu_Old · 17-04-2006 04:56PM

I think theres much more to be spending money on than a fleet of fancy fighter jets. The government would have to look after themselves first anyway, they might end up running out of chocolates for the private jet.:mad:

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 04:58PM

darkman2 wrote:

'Our air force and naval service are essential in keeping borders and seas secure and safe.'

The whole point is they cant:rolleyes:

Um who do you want us to be able to protect our waters from? All we need to protect them from is fishing vessels etc. We would not have a hope against an army, hence, not needed. Plus if we had this super army we could just get nuked.

Vorsprung · 17-04-2006 05:00PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Um who do you want us to be able to protect our waters from? All we need to protect them from is fishing vessels etc. We would not have a hope against an army, hence, not needed. Plus if we had this super army we could just get nuked.

Drug smugglers? Terrorists? Doesn't have to be an army...

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 05:03PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Um who do you want us to be able to protect our waters from? All we need to protect them from is fishing vessels etc. We would not have a hope against an army, hence, not needed. Plus if we had this super army we could just get nuked.

All im saying is we should have defence appropriate for our size. That may mean no air force at all even. There is also a terrorist threat to this country as there is every other Western European (whilst a small threat it should be taken seriously) nation so that should also be kept in mind. Thats all im saying. If we dont have an Aer Corps that can do its job and fulfill this roll then scrap it, as simple as that.

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 05:04PM

bigjimthefirst wrote:

Drug smugglers? Terrorists? Doesn't have to be an army...

Armies can't stop either looking at countries with huge well trained armies. It's what the police and/or secret service would have to do.

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 05:08PM

darkman2 wrote:

All im saying is we should have defence appropriate for our size. That may mean no air force at all even. There is also a terrorist threat to this country as there is every other Western European (whilst a small threat it should be taken seriously) nation so that should also be kept in mind. Thats all im saying. If we dont have an Aer Corps that can do its job and fulfill this roll then scrap it, as simple as that.

The threat, as you say, is minimal. An army or air force also could not stop it in my opinion and from case events.
Realistically do you think it could?

17-04-2006 05:08PM

I think we should invest billions in inphibious craft so that we could land at holy head ,stranraer and landsend.
We must do that.
We should site an airbase where the Mater hospital is and fly all the patients to Holland for effecient treatment.

We could also use the profits from the sale of aerlingus for a downpayment on an airbus 380.

This could be used between 3 and 4pm and again between 7 and 8pm to fly the visitors over to see the patients.

I have found plenty of other ways to spend money with a cursary search on google and it would all be good for us

Heres one example

darkman2 · 17-04-2006 05:11PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

The threat, as you say, is minimal. An army or air force also could not stop it in my opinion and from case events.
Realistically do you think it could?

Well I dont know but as inappropriate as it is - the Britsh have actually signalled their 'concern' about our lack of defencive or reactionary capability should such an eventuality happen so......

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2006 05:13PM

darkman2 wrote:

Well I dont know but as inappropriate as it is - the Britsh have actually signalled their 'concern' about our lack of defencive or reactionary capability should such an eventuality happen so......

Yet, we could tell them the same thing and compare the number of incidents.

Should we invest in a modern air force?

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