Should we invest in a modern air force?

darkman2

Discuss:D

OLP

No

CuLT

OLP wrote:

No

^

jamiecake

what are your reasons for suggesting this? we are not going to war? quiet daft if you ask me.. why not invest in getting our selves sorted first?

Fajitas!

Why bother. I mean, even if we were to be attacked, we are in the EU. Surely that'll stand to something. There's much more important things that need to be upgraded!

whiskeyman

darkman2 wrote:

Discuss:D

let's get a space agency while were at it.......
We'll send the first man to the sun - at night time, coz its turned off then...

jamiecake

here here

Cosine

:eek: Might look at fixing the health service and the like.

:P

Besides we have the english airforce. What we should get is diesel/electric subs

MUHAHAHAHAHA

The spanish trawlers will never see them comming and then we blow them up with small fireworks since all our money will have been spent by the time it came to buying munitions

darkman2

True, however the sight of cessnas performing flyovers yesterday left me with a slight tinge of embarrasment. Surley a couple of jets would be more credible if we are to have an air corps at all - no?:rolleyes:

jamiecake

no...

Vorsprung

darkman2 wrote:

True, however the sight of cessnas performing flyovers yesterday left me with a slight tinge of embarrasment. Surley a couple of jets would be more credible if we are to have an air corps at all - no?:rolleyes:

What the hell does credible mean?! You mean we should get F16s and some Apache helicopters? Would would we need these for?

darkman2

jamiecake wrote:

what are your reasons for suggesting this? we are not going to war? quiet daft if you ask me.. why not invest in getting our selves sorted first?

We are. The problems in this society, like the health service have absolutley nothing to do with funding. Its mismanagement:)

darkman2

jamiecake wrote:

no...

Then scrap the air corps. No point in having one if its absolutely useless:rolleyes:

jamiecake

the fly over was to remember the 1916 rising.. not to plan a future attack on anyone.. we are a nutural country, we do not need a new air force!!

jamiecake

think of it as a decoration..

Vorsprung

darkman2 wrote:

Then scrap the air corps. No point in having one if its absolutely useless:rolleyes:

It's not useless...it does what it's supposed to:

Aer Corps Site wrote:

PRIMARY ROLES OF THE AIR CORPS

*

In Support of the Army
*

In Support of the Naval Service
*

In Aid to the Civil Power

SECONDARY ROLES OF THE AIR CORPS

*

Aid to the Civil Community
*

Aid to Government Departments

jamiecake

think of it as decorations..

aidan_walsh

darkman2 wrote:

Then scrap the air corps. No point in having one if its absolutely useless:rolleyes:

Its not useless.

jamiecake

everything has to serve a purpose.. no need to add to the false glitter.. it may things look worse

netwhizkid

I think we should invest a few Billion into our Military. A good build programme like Hugo Chavez in instituting in Venezuela would be good. One squadron of about 12 Migs and a few for parts and spares. A helicopter division and a dedicated anti-aircraft division of the Army would be good. We are sharing an Island with hostile neighbors we really need to protect ourselves. After all Dictator for Life Ahern is really showing off now with Military parades. I would also like to see our Military numbers doubled with compulsory service for all fit men & women for three years. Ten years service for non-nationals to guarantee citizenship. We should expand and modernise our Military more. Just simply not buy any American equipment and buy Russian and french only. There is a nuclear reactor in Trinity College and it could be used to enrich uranium. I suggest we make alliances with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, North Korean President Kim Il-sung and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. The Belarussian president Aleksandr Lukashenko could also be an ally in the war on terror:- Countries to be invaded U.S.A, UK and Switzerland just because those pansies are afraid to fight. Our Empire will spread from Valentia Island to the Dardannels.

darkman2

jamiecake wrote:

the fly over was to remember the 1916 rising.. not to plan a future attack on anyone.. we are a nutural country, we do not need a new air force!!

You mention 'neutrality'. Ireland is not neutral....how can you be neutral between the western world and tyranny.

Also you CANT be neutral if you cant protect your neutrality. We are a rich nation now. Look at the Swiss. One of the most modern air forces in the world precisely to PROTECT their neutrality:rolleyes:

aidan_walsh

netwhizkid wrote:

I think we should invest a few Billion into our Military. A good build programme like Hugo Chavez in instituting in Venezuela would be good. One squadron of about 12 Migs and a few for parts and spares. A helicopter division and a dedicated anti-aircraft division of the Army would be good. We are sharing an Island with hostile neighbors we really need to protect ourselves. After all Dictator for Life Ahern is really showing off now with Military parades. I would also like to see our Military numbers doubled with compulsory service for all fit men & women for three years. Ten years service for non-nationals to guarantee citizenship. We should expand and modernise our Military more. Just simply not buy any American equipment and buy Russian and french only. There is a nuclear reactor in Trinity College and it could be used to enrich uranium. I suggest we make alliances with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, North Korean President Kim Il-sung and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. The Belarussian president Aleksandr Lukashenko could also be an ally in the war on terror:- Countries to be invaded U.S.A, UK and Switzerland just because those pansies are afraid to fight. Our Empire will spread from Valentia Island to the Dardannels.

Stop it, you're killing me...

darkman2

netwhizkid wrote:

I think we should invest a few Billion into our Military. A good build programme like Hugo Chavez in instituting in Venezuela would be good. One squadron of about 12 Migs and a few for parts and spares. A helicopter division and a dedicated anti-aircraft division of the Army would be good. We are sharing an Island with hostile neighbors we really need to protect ourselves. After all Dictator for Life Ahern is really showing off now with Military parades. I would also like to see our Military numbers doubled with compulsory service for all fit men & women for three years. Ten years service for non-nationals to guarantee citizenship. We should expand and modernise our Military more. Just simply not buy any American equipment and buy Russian and french only. There is a nuclear reactor in Trinity College and it could be used to enrich uranium. I suggest we make alliances with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, North Korean President Kim Il-sung and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. The Belarussian president Aleksandr Lukashenko could also be an ally in the war on terror:- Countries to be invaded U.S.A, UK and Switzerland just because those pansies are afraid to fight. Our Empire will spread from Valentia Island to the Dardannels.

All im suggesting is should we update the air corps a bit, whats wrong with that:rolleyes:

Zillah

The amount we'd have to invest in the airforce to make it militarily useful would be preposterous. As it is, it does what it needs to, minor support stuff.

Like, what are we gonna be bombing here? England? France? Germany? Because we certainly wont be getting an air craft carrier so any further afield is impossible, so its not like we could even use it for peace keeping in Liberia with the UN.

Vorsprung

darkman2 wrote:

All im suggesting is should we update the air corps a bit, whats wrong with that:rolleyes:

What's on your shopping list?

If we need more of anything it's naval vessels

darkman2

bigjimthefirst wrote:

What's on your shopping list?

If we need more of anything it's naval vessels

Surley we could afford a couple of fighter jets. Nothing elaborate. If were going to have military parades every year (which I think we shouldnt as I feel its inappropriate and belongs more to militant communist regimes then a healthy democracy like ours) then at least invest in some new equipment. The navy I think is alright and suits our fishery needs.:rolleyes:

aidan_walsh

So you want to splash out a couple of hundred million on jet fighters that will only be sitting there gathering dust, falling into disrepair and consuming resources until we want to show off the might of our military.

Are you sure you don't work for the Health Board?

Max_Damage

Zillah wrote:

Like, what are we gonna be bombing here? England? France? Germany? Because we certainly wont be getting an air craft carrier so any further afield is impossible, so its not like we could even use it for peace keeping in Liberia with the UN.

We could have bought that aircraft carrier that was on eBay a few months back for $10 million!

darkman2

aidan_walsh wrote:

So you want to splash out a couple of hundred million on jet fighters that will only be sitting there gathering dust, falling into disrepair and consuming resources until we want to show off the might of our military.

Are you sure you don't work for the Health Board?

Ive explained this already. The health service has plenty of money, its mismanagement that is the problem. 12 billion euro a year on the health service. In terms of our GDP a copule of hundered million is nothing tbh:) Its just a suggestion that maybe we should replace the current aer corps fleet of turbo props with something more credible. Im not talking about an 'air force' as such just an upgrade on what we have.

Vorsprung

darkman2 wrote:

Surley we could afford a couple of fighter jets. Nothing elaborate. If were going to have military parades every year (which I think we shouldnt as I feel its inappropriate and belongs more to militant communist regimes then a healthy democracy like ours) then at least invest in some new equipment. The navy I think is alright and suits our fishery needs.:rolleyes:

If the Guards had the same amount of cars as the Navy has ships, they'd be patrolling the whole of Ireland with just 2 squad cards. Still alright is it? Plus we'll have increased committments in terms of humanitarian efforts, we'll need bigger and more ships to deliver equipment to all corners of the world.

The parade is not an airshow, it's to celebrate the Rising remember those who died fighting in it.

aidan_walsh

darkman2 wrote:

Ive explained this already. The health service has plenty of money, its mismanagement that is the problem. 12 billion euro a year on the health service. In terms of our GDP a copule of hundered million is nothing tbh Its just a suggestion that maybe we should replace the current aer corps fleet of turbo props with something more credible. Im not talking about an 'air force' as such just an upgrade on what we have.

Yes, I get that. I'm saying from a management point of view, what we have suits our needs. We don't need showboats that will only eat into the Air Corps budget and resources needlessly.

darkman2

bigjimthefirst wrote:

If the Guards had the same amount of cars as the Navy has ships, they'd be patrolling the whole of Ireland with just 2 squad cards. Still alright is it? Plus we'll have increased committments in terms of humanitarian efforts, we'll need bigger and more ships to deliver equipment to all corners of the world.

The parade is not an airshow, it's to celebrate the Rising remember those who died fighting in it.

Is it 12 naval ships we have? Im not sure but maybe your right, some investment maybe for the navy instead:rolleyes:

jamiecake

yawnnn.. this is why boards bores me.. POINTLESS

hullaballoo

The government should collect a few hundred thousand pepsi bottle-caps and get some lear jets. Quick and easy solution.

Vorsprung

darkman2 wrote:

Is it 12 naval ships we have? Im not sure but maybe your right, some investment maybe for the navy instead:rolleyes:

We have 8, 1 due to retire pretty soon.

IrishAirCorps

jamiecake wrote:

we are a nutural country, we do not need a new air force!!

So is Sweden but they have the first 4th generation fighter the Gripen, they have no enemies yet they had no problem building her, look at Switzerland the are Neutral and yet they have the F18 and among that other Supersonic Jets with no enemies and in order for them to go Supersonic they need to ask Germany or surrounding Countries for permission to use their Airspace for a Supersonic hop, Ireland should invest primarily in Helicopters first and Naval Vessels also, i bet that little of you know that the Irish have to patrol the biggest zone of International water anywhere in the EU, we already rely on the RAF to intercept any AC in trouble etc and to me i deem that as a joke, we are a soverign state and as such we should be able to protect ourselves first, we have the best soldiers in the world for peace keeping and i think we should all be proud of that. But if the Air Corps is to get serious then i suggest getting rid of MATS and concentrate on Heli's first for CSAR,MEDIVAC,TROOP OPS, ARW OPS and Aid to the civil powers and only then should we proceed to having aircraft even if it means only 6-10 figthers thats all we would need anyway for the size of our nation, if i was in charge id but some aircraft that would be a help to ground forces overseas like the A10 Thunderbolt she has it all and id have scrapped the AB139 in preferance for the Blackhawk.

zuma

whiskeyman wrote:

let's get a space agency while were at it.......
We'll send the first man to the sun - at night time, coz its turned off then...

We already are part of a space agency....the European Space Agency (ESA)!!!

And no we dont have use or need for an 'Air Force' unless it comes with an aircraft carrier as who are we going to use it against?
Oh...the only reason we proclaim neutrality is because we just dont spend the money on the military and if the sh!t might hit the fan in decades to come we will be depending 100% on the rest of the EU to save us!

The cessnas and turboprop trainers were silly.....but those trainers are required to train the helicopter pilots....which are VERY necessary in Ireland.

darkman2

IrishAirCorps wrote:

So is Sweden but they have the first 4th generation fighter the Gripen, they have no enemies yet they had no problem building her, look at Switzerland the are Neutral and yet they have the F18 and among that other Supersonic Jets with no enemies and in order for them to go Supersonic they need to ask Germany or surrounding Countries for permission to use their Airspace for a Supersonic hop, Ireland should invest primarily in Helicopters first and Naval Vessels also, i bet that little of you know that the Irish have to patrol the biggest zone of International water anywhere in the EU, we already rely on the RAF to intercept any AC in trouble etc and to me i deem that as a joke, we are a soverign state and as such we should be able to protect ourselves first, we have the best soldiers in the world for peace keeping and i think we should all be proud of that. But if the Air Corps is to get serious then i suggest getting rid of MATS and concentrate on Heli's first for CSAR,MEDIVAC,TROOP OPS, ARW OPS and Aid to the civil powers and only then should we proceed to having aircraft even if it means only 6-10 figthers thats all we would need anyway for the size of our nation, if i was in charge id but some aircraft that would be a help to ground forces overseas like the A10 Thunderbolt she has it all and id have scrapped the AB139 in preferance for the Blackhawk.

I agree completely with that. A point well made about Sweden and Switzerland. We cannot be neutral because we havnt the capacity to defend our own state. No-one takes us seriously when we protest about anything because we dont know what we are talking about. A small squadron as you suggest would be appropriate I reckon only after the rest of the DF is brought up to scratch for our small size:)

zuma

netwhizkid wrote:

I think we should invest a few Billion into our Military. A good build programme like Hugo Chavez in instituting in Venezuela would be good. One squadron of about 12 Migs and a few for parts and spares. A helicopter division and a dedicated anti-aircraft division of the Army would be good. We are sharing an Island with hostile neighbors we really need to protect ourselves. After all Dictator for Life Ahern is really showing off now with Military parades. I would also like to see our Military numbers doubled with compulsory service for all fit men & women for three years. Ten years service for non-nationals to guarantee citizenship. We should expand and modernise our Military more. Just simply not buy any American equipment and buy Russian and french only. There is a nuclear reactor in Trinity College and it could be used to enrich uranium. I suggest we make alliances with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, North Korean President Kim Il-sung and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. The Belarussian president Aleksandr Lukashenko could also be an ally in the war on terror:- Countries to be invaded U.S.A, UK and Switzerland just because those pansies are afraid to fight. Our Empire will spread from Valentia Island to the Dardannels.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

darkman2

bigjimthefirst wrote:

We have 8, 1 due to retire pretty soon.

Oh dear........

Zillah

IrishAirCorps wrote:

So is Sweden but they have the first 4th generation fighter the Gripen, they have no enemies yet they had no problem building her, look at Switzerland the are Neutral and yet they have the F18 and among that other Supersonic Jets with no enemies and in order for them to go Supersonic they need to ask Germany or surrounding Countries for permission to use their Airspace for a Supersonic hop, Ireland should invest primarily in Helicopters first and Naval Vessels also, i bet that little of you know that the Irish have to patrol the biggest zone of International water anywhere in the EU, we already rely on the RAF to intercept any AC in trouble etc and to me i deem that as a joke, we are a soverign state and as such we should be able to protect ourselves first, we have the best soldiers in the world for peace keeping and i think we should all be proud of that. But if the Air Corps is to get serious then i suggest getting rid of MATS and concentrate on Heli's first for CSAR,MEDIVAC,TROOP OPS, ARW OPS and Aid to the civil powers and only then should we proceed to having aircraft even if it means only 6-10 figthers thats all we would need anyway for the size of our nation, if i was in charge id but some aircraft that would be a help to ground forces overseas like the A10 Thunderbolt she has it all and id have scrapped the AB139 in preferance for the Blackhawk.

Excellent post. Colour me convinced.

Tar.Aldarion

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

aidan_walsh

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

Right. And who would step up to fill the roles they play?

darkman2

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to any operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout:mad: We should at least play a small part from time to time.

Zillah

darkman2 wrote:

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to any operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout:mad: We should at least play a small part from time to time.

Oh don't be absurd. Ireland has never launched military action outside our own nation other than with UN peace keeping forces. And we're not about to start because the US wants revenge on those evil muslims.

Tar Aldarion wrote:

Ireland should lose all of it's army, air force and naval service. Pointless.
Set an example for the world.

Thats a terrible idea. Our air force and naval service are essential in keeping borders and seas secure and safe, while Irish troops are applauded for their excellent peace keeping abroad. Only a couple weeks ago the war crimes former president of Liberia was captured by Irish forces.

Vorsprung

darkman2 wrote:

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to anything operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

We have army officers in Afghanistan.

But I hear what you're saying. We should have our own equipment, and not be relying on other countries (UK) if we find ourselves about to be ****ed. We spend pitifully little on the DF, think it's .9% of GDP. Jets wouldn't be top of the Aer Corps' shopping list I'd say, reckon it'd be more helicopters, and cargo planes.

Tar.Aldarion

aidan_walsh wrote:

Right. And who would step up to fill the roles they play?

People are paid to do things with money.
I means as regards their military activities, Their secondary roles should be their primary roles and the primary roles abolished.
Also, I may be known to not post seriously in this thread. But which do I believe and what do I not, that's up to you.

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to any operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout We should at least play a small part from time to time.

Lets face it, Ireland couldn't make much of a difference, look at who they would have to be against and the sheer amount money thrown at their armies. The money could be better spent improving our country.

darkman2

Zillah wrote:

Oh don't be absurd. Ireland has never launched military action outside our own nation other than with UN peace keeping forces. And we're not about to start because the US wants revenge on those evil muslims.

Being selective there as to how youve misread my post. Im saying Ireland should try to contribute, if not then we should just shut up and stay out of it. I am well aware Ireland could only contribute very little even if its miltitary was upgraded.

hullaballoo

darkman2 wrote:

Dont take offence but I really think its time for the Irish to grow some f**king balls instead of sitting on the fence and moaning. We have made not one contribution to anything operation militarily since 9/11, despite the fact that numerous ppl of Irish descent entitled to our passport were murdered along with so many other nationalities.

What do we do? The spineless, gutless Irish have the nerve to critiscise the US and UK and other nations. That means complete f**k all to them because we have absolutely no clout We should at least play a small part from time to time.

What the fcuk? Who do you suppose we should use this airforce against? We're neutral for a reason: we have fcuk all choice. If we were to get involved in any sort of warfare, we'd be beaten into a sorry paste.

Tar.Aldarion

hullaballoo wrote:

What the fcuk? Who do you suppose we should use this airforce against? We're neutral for a reason: we have fcuk all choice. If we were to get involved in any sort of warfare, we'd be beaten into a sorry paste.

Exactly, we don't need to have a military presence in Ireland, spend millions on something that could be quashed at a blink of another nation.
It's better to leave them at it and have a sweet country.

The only presence there should be is for rescue operations, watching our borders for vessels etc. I don't think it would even be called the military then...

darkman2

hullaballoo wrote:

What the fcuk? Who do you suppose we should use this airforce against? We're neutral for a reason: we have fcuk all choice. If we were to get involved in any sort of warfare, we'd be beaten into a sorry paste. Grow up man.

You cant be neutral if you cant defend your neutrality - fact. Im being mis-qouted here or else ppl are on purposely mis-reading what im saying. Im not saying we alone take part in 'war-fare' (we cant). Im saying we contribute what we can to efforts from other countries.