Is Ireland Getting Rougher?

Yook · 16-04-2006 01:19PM

Yea, i agreee aswell. Good point casanova.

lucernarian · 16-04-2006 01:40PM

Bad point IMO. While I'm not advocating that we must all speak with perfect grammar or else, I believe that the main point of grammar is to help us communicate. Grammar wasn't created for no reason. I think the title of the book "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" makes this point very well.

The english language can be spoken in many ways, yes, by using vocabulary. Like saying "not good" instead of "bad".

If people are speaking to each other, they can use whatever grammar rules they want, or not want. However, a person should certainly not be criticised for using correct grammar.

casanova_kid · 16-04-2006 01:44PM

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Bad point IMO. While I'm not advocating that we must all speak with perfect grammar or else, I believe that the main point of grammar is to help us communicate. Grammar wasn't created for no reason. I think the title of the book "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" makes this point very well.

The english language can be spoken in many ways, yes, by using vocabulary. Like saying "not good" instead of "bad".

If people are speaking to each other, they can use whatever grammar rules they want, or not want. However, a person should certainly not be criticised for using correct grammar.

Did I criticise anybody for using correct grammar? Read my posts, sunshine, and you will find i didn't. I just disagree with the OP's snobby attitude to accents and grammar which is fairy irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Pazaz 21 · 16-04-2006 01:46PM

I think its mostly a lack of respect and ambition. I mean where do they see themselve in 10 years, sitting at home, watchin daytime tv, on the dole, or what? Do they expect to be shown respect when they pick fights for no other reason than they have nothing better to do?

The sad truth is that most people just stay at home for fear of getting "glassed" or getting the sh*t kicked out of them at random. Its not my fault if i'm financially better off then other people and it certainly isn't any reason to beat the crap out of me. My parents worked hard to get to the situation they are in now and i don't feel that if you've got a chip on your shoulder you have the right to make honest, decent people suffer for it.

(Rant over):D

andy1249 · 16-04-2006 01:49PM

All this crap about grammer ,

Refer to Stephen Pinker , the language instinct ,
Noam Chomsky , huge volume of work on the subject ,

In any human language , be that slang , pidgins , or creoles , the inherent grammer is always of the same structure and always present. The above Authors would argue that it is inherent is some way to the human brain.

To say that a certain way or accent of speaking is a lesser way , or is in any way inferior is Elitism , no more , no less.

lucernarian · 16-04-2006 01:52PM

casanova_kid wrote:

Did I criticise anybody for using correct grammar? Read my posts, sunshine, and you will find i didn't. I just disagree with the OP's snobby attitude to accents and grammar which is fairy irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Lol, aren't you a very defensive person??? Before you call me sunshine, you had better find the part where I accused YOU of criticising anyone.:)

lucernarian · 16-04-2006 01:56PM

andy1249 wrote:

All this crap about grammer ,

Refer to Stephen Pinker , the language instinct ,
Noam Chomsky , huge volume of work on the subject ,

In any human language , be that slang , pidgins , or creoles , the inherent grammer is always of the same structure and always present. The above Authors would argue that it is inherent is some way to the human brain.

To say that a certain way or accent of speaking is a lesser way , or is in any way inferior is Elitism , no more , no less.

Indeed, which is why I think that no one should be criticised for using incorrect grammar according to whatever sets the standard for the english language. Isn't there some book by Fowler or something like that which gives grammatical guidelines for english?

Nightwish · 16-04-2006 02:26PM

I feel Ireland is getting rougher. Its not only in Dublin, but all over the country. I see kids of 9 and 10 out on the streets at night trying to break windows on cars just for a laugh, or young girls "baitin'" other girls up and these kids wouldnt necessarily be from the rough areas of town either. Why is it seen as "cool" to act in such a manner?

Wertz · 16-04-2006 03:28PM

This whole grammar debate is throwing us off course...nothing wrong with using it properly and talking "posh" but IMO, if you can be understood by the person(s) you're talking with then it has absolutely no bearing on anything (this is what I have against txtspk on anything but mobile phones).

andy1249 · 16-04-2006 03:34PM

It has plenty of bearing on the discussion when the OP is using it to " Elevate" himself over what he considers " nackers ".

Huggles · 16-04-2006 03:37PM

DublinWriter wrote:

Dublin was always a rough auld city.

My father and others of his generation always used to tell me about the pitch battles between gangs in the East Wall area in the 50's and 60's.

Even in the 1930's, there used to be pitched battles between gangs out in the Baldoyle Racecourse when race meetings where on.

If anything, nowdays the violence is a lot more random and usually just a one person trying it on.

Generally, I'd say Dublin is getting better. Hard to believe I know.

Though i am not condoing that at all, it was violence between gangs that had genuine problems with eachother be it turf or whatever.

Nowadays it is random acts of violence on strangers and it is usually drink and drug fuelled. Dublin is NOT getting better and that is a fact. We have a massive drug problem and with that comes a big crime problem.

Pigman II · 16-04-2006 03:53PM

Zascar wrote:

Many people slag off country accents, they have an individuality to the sound of their voice, but at least they generally speak properly. I'm referring to rough acents coupled with a complete disregard for any use of grammer as we know it.

Do they? I've heard enought varieties of accents from round the country to know this isn't so. People from Limerick to Donegal to Wicklow whom I literally couldn't understand what they were saying half the time. They might have well been speaking German (except I can actually understand German).

Also whilst we're at it, why to people always end up compaining about bad 'grammEr'?

Is Ireland Getting Rougher?

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