Indo story about TCD education standards in School of Nursing

I can see why the Indo picked this up - nurses are newsworthy at the moment with the INO doing their people on trolleys in A and E count and the health service in general. Plus, nurses have a good will factor that doctors don't - it wouldn't be as 'good' news if it were med students that had their results messed up like that.

I've never heard of a mix up like that with wrong results being posted, the occasional mistake being made with the adding up of marks for individual students, sure, but a mix up on that scale...?

Right_Side wrote:

Note - not a complement :rolleyes:

Do you think anyone actually cares that you have to pay c.€100 for your injections?

Everyone who goes to college has there own individual expenses depending on the course. Do you hear the science people complaining/going on strike :rolleyes: because they have to pay for a labcoat?

You knew about the fee before you came, or should have known if you bothered to research, then why complain?

I thought the issue with the vacines was that the hospital had been given the money by the dept of health, and were still charging the nursing students? Do nursing students wear uniforms when on placement, and do they have to buy them? (and, if they're provided, it's the hospital that provides, not the college - or is it trinity?)

The labcoats is a good point, maybe science people should be given them, and goggles. I think the science faculty don't because it'd simply be hassle for them, leaving aside the expense, they'd have to organise the sizes, etc. I didn't mind paying for the lab coat, it was a once off small expense. At least we don't have to pay for the chemicals, equipment and electricity in the labs. But, if the science faculty had a budget for providing the coats and didn't, then i'd be annoyed.

in other related news, the school of nursing was recently subject to a break-in on wednesday night. its believed that the vandals gained access from the roof somehow. there was nothing for them to steal so they just trashed the place.

Nursing students situation is unique in that they have 144 weeks of clinical placement in hospital setting where they are expected to work for the health service as part of their education. As such they are owed a certain responsibility from the health service and from the Dept. of Health. So to anyone who has a problem with nursing students being given a bit of due respect and fair play from college and the HSE, why don't you grow up and realise that some of us are doing something worthwhile and productive to society and all we want is a bit of common decency shown. And to the person who brought up the issue of overspending in the health system on wages, nurses are actually one of the worst paid professions in the system. And in relation to the public/private issue, that doesnt apply in healthcare. Public workers earn less than private workers in the Health System.

The school of nursing is NOT 12 years old, but closer to 3 years in its current form as it was created after the first years of the 4 year degree program started. Previously, the diploma courses were administered and examined by the hospital and TCD rubberstamped the degree.

Since the further consolidation and expansion of the school as the years progress and expand, there are occasional hiccups. I know the staff of the nursing school very, very well and can assure you that there is no other school in the university which holds their students closer to their heart and go out of their way to assist them. For instance, the Nursing school gave the money which created the St. James's student centre and also lumped in €500,000 to the sports and student centre on the main campus.

Right_Side wrote:

Sounds like the Trinity nurses are dead certs to be future INO leaders. :rolleyes:

I have to agree, I'm afraid.

upon graduation these nurses along with the rest of the public health system will be ready to asborb government spending on health leading to the crisis we currently have.

Fact:
1. 56% of the increase in current health spending (7% increase) goes directly on wages. (Department of Finance)

2. Public pay exceeds private pay by 13%. (ERSI)

Here's a few more statistics:
Ireland has 16.5 nurses per 10,000 people. the OECD average is 10 per 10,000. With the level of wage inflation in the health sector, this results in great increases in expenditure in Ireland. Healthcare is one of the non-progressive sectors of the economy, identified by William Baumol. As a result, when wages increase in the progressive (usually private) sectors (due to increased levels of productivity), these wage increases are demanded in the non-progressive sector too. Education and healthcare are the two major non-progressive sectors.

We do not need more nurses: we just need the ones we have to work more efficiently! The vast problem of institutionalised overtime is remarkable. There is no focus on productivity in the health service and there is no accountability, as we are happy to allow the INO to wrap the government around its finger. The government erects barriers, which protect the workers in the health service far too much. For example, admission to medical schools is capped at 1978 levels. That is why the CAO points level for Medicine, Dentistry, etc. is so high. There is room in universities to cater for more people, but, seeing as they only have to admit so many EU students, they sell off the excess places to non-EU students, who, in many cases, have only a fraction of the academic record of their EU counterparts. If this ridiculous cap on numbers were removed, the points requirement would become lower and we would have more doctors, more competition and lower prices.

As a result, in Ireland, we have a protected system of 2.3 doctors per 10,000 people, compared with the OECD average of 3 doctors per 10,000 people. Using an index system gives the following:

This shows the effect of overtime, which is caused by not having enough doctors in the first place.

Over the period 1997-2002, there was 125% increase in spending on the Irish health system. The 1997 staffing level was c.68,000. In 2002 it was 98,000. Of these 30,000 additions, 1,309 were doctors and dentists. All of this reulted in a 4% increase in admissions. In no other sector could this level of financial mismanagement and waste of resources be tolerated.

Four out of every five people in Accident and Emergency have no need to be there. Only one in five are admitted to hospital. Instead of clogging up our MRSA-threatened hospitals, this 80% of people should be treated by GP's, but all they do is write letters: letters to employers for people who aren't really sick, letters to pharmacists (another protected economic system) called prescriptions, and letters to other doctors (referrals). When one sees a "surgery" sign outside a GP's office, one has to wonder about how much real medical work is going on in there. This also leads to a massiive system of paperwork, requiring more and more "administrators" and yet more costs. From 1997 to 2001, there was a 74% increase in the number of administrators.

Public unions. It's for you to decide...

The cause of the health crisis?

See above.

The cause of rip off Ireland?

Irish per capita health expenditure is 35% above the EU average, taking 2003 figures.

Sounds like Trinity is breeding them out wherever the nurses are! Unfortunate!

For shame.

This is only the tip of the iceberg...