Failed asylum seekers flown to Nigeria

miju · 05-04-2006 03:22PM

sceptre wrote:

fao miju: I've said this before and I'm bored enough for thirty seconds to say it again, the Dublin Convention was replaced by the Dublin II Regulations in 24 out of 25 EU countries in 1998, including this one. Cite current legislation rather than stuff that hasn't been in effect in eight years. It'll make me feel better.

very strange becuase the dublin convention was in place when i was working in repat in 1998, stranger still as Dublin II only came into effect in Sept 2003 and states that the Dublin Convention is an agreement that still exisits between all member EU states and that under Dublin II pretty much the Dublin Convention rules still apply

have a read for yourself http://oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/seeking_asylum/dublin_convention.html

waste of thirty seconds :-)

ferdi · 05-04-2006 03:26PM

people defending these financial imigrants is so laughable, i cant believe your serious. your so blindly PC that you cant see the wood for the trees anymore.

i've no problem with people coming here for a better life, but:

Dont come here under false pretences and Dont expect to get state benifit for nothing.

MorningStar · 05-04-2006 03:26PM

Hobbes wrote:

ROFL.. you didn't even click the link did you? That site refers to Asylum seekers not Visa applications.

Your first link was for Visas and your second link is a bias sourse.I don't reacall you withdrawing your incorect claim about Ireland.

Heinrich · 05-04-2006 03:28PM

ferdi wrote:

people defending these financial imigrants is so laughable, i cant believe your serious. your so blindly PC that you cant see the wood for the trees anymore.

i've no problem with people coming here for a better life, but:

Dont come here under false pretences and Dont expect to get state benifit for nothing.

And respect the laws of the land.

ionapaul · 05-04-2006 03:44PM

I'm sure many have seen this before, but it is a classic:

http://ascc.artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/courses/306/nigeria_counterpoint.html

All of us would do what we could, pay what we could and lie about whateve we could to better our lives by the degree many better their lives coming to Ireland and working the system...as horrible a life it may seem to most of us.

MorningStar · 05-04-2006 03:45PM

Even using the Refugee councils figures it shows

48,632+22,806=71438 cases in total heard for asylum

2,792+4,022+6,814=13628 were granted

Now correct I would not say that all those refusals are down to false claims but even 50% shows it looks bad. I'd like to see the resons for refusals still.

"A total of 3,732 people were refused 'leave to land' in Ireland up until the 31st October 2005 i.e. they were turned away on arrival at an Irish port/airport or held in an Irish prison until a flight could be arranged for them."

That doesn't sound good to me either so what is the defence?

Hobbes · 05-04-2006 03:50PM

MorningStar wrote:

Your first link was for Visas and your second link is a bias sourse.I don't reacall you withdrawing your incorect claim about Ireland.

The second link isn't a biased source. How do you figure that one out? They cite actual figures from the government and point you to the government documents some of you failed to read before. Please let me know how you figure out that they are biased?

Recall what incorrect claim? Yous are the ones trying to infer that everyone that comes from the country is diseased as some kind of FUD to prove a point to the argument. Ever occur to you that these people actually recieve medical checks when they enter the country.

I point about the first link was in reference to people not being able to see the difference between an Asylum seeker and "Financial immigrant". Two different things.

Also people seem to think because the person is Nigerian that they magically came straight from Nigeria, which is not always the case and there are ways to get to Ireland without having to pass through a Neighbouring EU country. Add to that people are under the misconception that the laws were made to keep people out of our country when in fact it refers to processing of asylum applications.

Incidently there were approx 55,000 people on Irish roads (last year) without tax, insurance, license and the vast majority of them are Irish. Wish we could deport a few of those muppets too.

ionapaul · 05-04-2006 03:57PM

Arn't people trying to say that many / most of the Asylum seekers *are* financial immigrants?

Hobbes · 05-04-2006 04:00PM

MorningStar wrote:

Now correct I would not say that all those refusals are down to false claims but even 50% shows it looks bad. I'd like to see the resons for refusals still.

What exactly are you trying to say? What it says to me there are chancers trying to get here but they are getting turned away. Or are you trying to infer those who made it through the system don't deserve to be here?

Hobbes · 05-04-2006 04:03PM

ionapaul wrote:

Arn't people trying to say that many / most of the Asylum seekers *are* financial immigrants?

It might be that, however even if this is true then the large number being rejected would imply the system is looking to ensure these people don't break this loophole.

Also bare in mind that Khune wasn't a financial immigrant. He did however break the law while he was here.

CyberGhost · 05-04-2006 04:05PM

Failed asylum seekers flown to Nigeria

Good!

Hobbes · 05-04-2006 04:10PM

CyberGhost wrote:

Good!

Another misconception is that the "PC brigade" see this as a bad thing. It isn't. They failed the tests to be proven as an asylum seeker then deporting them is a non-issue.

panda100 · 05-04-2006 04:11PM

Bond-007 wrote:

I see Kunle is in today's indo. He is looking well. He was up in court again for driving without insurance and tax. So I can summise that he is still around.

Surely they could have got Ryanair or other cheapo option to send them back?

Ah kunle is great-he looks like a really nice guy!He's fitted more in to his three years over here in Ireland than most people do in their lifetime,doing the leaving,fathering a child,getting a driving ban,protesting outside the dail.

I dont like minister McDowell and his deportation ethos.My parents went to England when they couldnt get any work over here like the millions of other Irish people who went to america,australia and worldwide.I cant justify sending these people back to Nigeraiawhen they have a threat to their lives for returning.It just isnt right

ferdi · 05-04-2006 04:21PM

panda100 wrote:

I cant justify sending these people back to Nigeraiawhen they have a threat to their lives for returning.It just isnt right

no one is doing that. people who come here illegally in order to rape the state should however be sent packing.

miju · 05-04-2006 04:23PM

Hobbes wrote:

Incidently there were approx 55,000 people on Irish roads (last year) without tax, insurance, license and the vast majority of them are Irish. Wish we could deport a few of those muppets too.

irrelevant to the conversation as an irish person cannot be made stateless and it's we're not talking about Irish people we're discussing ASYLUM SEEKERS here but since you brought it upwhere did you pull that figure from????

Hobbes wrote:

He did however break the law while he was here.

correct and under the immigration act should be deported (cant remember what section off the top of my head think its 13 )

Hobbes wrote:

Also bare in mind that Khune wasn't a financial immigrant.

do you know his case specifics then if you do then please elaborate more??? cos i'd be willing to bet all asylum seekers from nigeria are financial refugees (and i'm aware of what i mean by saying all)

panda100 wrote:

I cant justify sending these people back to Nigeraiawhen they have a threat to their lives for returning.It just isnt right

what threat exactly????

ferdi · 05-04-2006 04:28PM

miju, it has been my experience that anyone i've come across who deals with asylum seekers in an official capacity (ie: works for a state body, not support group etc) is completely disillusioned by them because they are mostly here for financial gain, not due to any threat to their lives. is this honest to god the case? i suppose it must be as anyone i've met whos in the business confirms it

Santa Claus · 05-04-2006 04:29PM

panda100 wrote:

My parents went to England when they couldnt get any work over here like the millions of other Irish people who went to america,australia and worldwide.

I can't believe people still compare Irish emigrants to asylum seekers/refugees.
The fact that Irish people went all over the world to seek work is correct. However if anything these people avoided any contact with goverment institutions in their new homeland and just kept their heads down, worked as hard as they could and tried to save their money.
Not quite the same as someone who arrives in Ireland and demands whatever financial benefits are available to them from the goverment !

MorningStar · 05-04-2006 04:31PM

Hobbes wrote:

The second link isn't a biased source. How do you figure that one out? They cite actual figures from the government and point you to the government documents some of you failed to read before. Please let me know how you figure out that they are biased?

I used your figures and it prooves that people coming here are denied asylumn.

Hobbes wrote:

Recall what incorrect claim? Yous are the ones trying to infer that everyone that comes from the country is diseased as some kind of FUD to prove a point to the argument. Ever occur to you that these people actually recieve medical checks when they enter the country.

I infered nothing I stated fact and gave figures. You suggest Ireland had a TB and AIDS/HIV problem. Read back becasue a few people pointed it out to you becasue it was such a stupid thing to say. Are they refused entry based on medical condition?

Hobbes wrote:

I point about the first link was in reference to people not being able to see the difference between an Asylum seeker and "Financial immigrant". Two different things.

No you didn't and it didn't prove anything. AS I pointed out it was a list of cases nothing more or less and it was for visas. A us citizen working in Ireland would be on that list. SOmebody coming to this country seeiking asylum could be coming here for money a visa list proves nothing on this. YOu didn't show a difference

Hobbes wrote:

Also people seem to think because the person is Nigerian that they magically came straight from Nigeria, which is not always the case and there are ways to get to Ireland without having to pass through a Neighbouring EU country. Add to that people are under the misconception that the laws were made to keep people out of our country when in fact it refers to processing of asylum applications.

What are you saying? Tell us these magical ways of getting here without entry into another EU country. I didn't claim the law was to keep people out and I didn't see anybody claim that here

Hobbes wrote:

Incidently there were approx 55,000 people on Irish roads (last year) without tax, insurance, license and the vast majority of them are Irish. Wish we could deport a few of those muppets too.

So what has that got to do with anything. WHen you are a guest you are expected to act better plain and simple.

What you seem to fail to understand is 48,632 applied for asylum once. WHile they file for that they are here and doing stuff. Khune was here breaking the law while he was here. What was the reason he claimed to be here and why was he not granted asylum?
While here and getting little money with wealth around them are you telling me these people are not working or doing better here than at home?
I don't know where you live but crack cocaine is linked to nigerian gangs directly in Dublin. There are other crimes and scams specifically linked to various differnet nationalities in this country now. Do you have the figures for the amount of people marked for deportation that are unaccounted for. Once you are in the black market you get involved in lots of it.

Stop accusing people of statment and views not made and pay attention.

ferdi · 05-04-2006 04:32PM

Santa Claus wrote:

I can't believe people still compare Irish emigrants to asylum seekers/refugees.
The fact that Irish people went all over the world to seek work is correct. However if anything these people avoided any contact with goverment institutions in their new homeland and just kept their heads down, worked as hard as they could and tried to save their money.
Not quite the same as someone who arrives in Ireland and demands whatever financial benefits are available to them from the goverment !

thank you, i've been saying this for years, what a retarded argument it is.

miju · 05-04-2006 04:43PM

ferdi wrote:

miju, it has been my experience that anyone i've come across who deals with asylum seekers in an official capacity (ie: works for a state body, not support group etc) is completely disillusioned by them because they are mostly here for financial gain, not due to any threat to their lives. is this honest to god the case? i suppose it must be as anyone i've met whos in the business confirms it

the genuine cases are very few and far between and the system is honest and too bloody fair and the genuine ones do get granted asylum or leave to remain, the cases are poured over carefully and every claim made in a case is cross referenced becuase ultimately it has to stand up in the high court so everything is done to a high standard

the reason while most people who are involved with them in an official say they're financial refugees is because they are, alot of effort goes into deporting a person, alot of cost and they laugh at the GNIB when being deported and tell them they'll be back next month under a new name.

and thats not including the dual appliactions that are known about (and they're quite alot of them as well) so they're getting double (that said when they're caught they're usually out of the country so fast

Delboy05 · 05-04-2006 08:17PM

the whole asylum process is a joke but it's too late now.

Whilst 90+% of applicants fail in their asylum bid at the first instance, we have only ever deported a few hundred. I know about 15% get their application 2nd time round under appeal, but the reason that so many are still here is because of the Irish born baby fiasco.
Thosuands got to stay (approx 10,000 if I remember right), before the referendum and since McDowell announced the amnesty for those who had babies born between the withdrawal of forms for citizenship and the referendum being put into law, another 18,000 have managed to stay here.

So all in all, I'd say 70%+ of asylum applicants have managed to stay in Ireland with only a tiniy tiny minority having real grounds to do so.

And what does this mean for Ireland......In 2002, 5% of the national housing waiting list was made up of former asylum seekers (and this was before the vast majority of people got their citizenship under the irish born baby rule, so my guess is that it is way higher now)...a more specific example: 30% of the housing waiting list in Portlaoise as of 2005 is made up of former asylum seekers!!!!!
Somone earlier posted the AIDS stats for ireland in relation to new cases....these stats and others for previous years show that sub saharan africans have provided half of all new cases for the past 5 or so years.
The only 2 craic cocaine factories found so far in Ireland - Camden St., about 4 years ago, in a house paid for by the Eastern Health Board (or you and me,Johnny taxpayer) and a privately rented flat in Phibsboro a few months ago. And in both cases the people in posession of the premises and the drugs - nigerians. Figures from the UNHCR that i posted in a seperate topic on this some months ago showed that in 2002 20% of all nigerians who claimed asylum in the western world did so in ireland - we were the number 1 country of choice in europe, way more per capita than the UK, their former colonial power. And in recent figures from the UN for 2004, Ireland again topped the destination list for nigerians.

Maybe Hobbes can answer that one!!!!

On and with regards to the spiel that nigerians are coming to ireland from non-eu countries with direct flights here......can't be the case. If that was true they all be refused permission to land and airlines would be getting their arses fined. I think you'll find if you ask around that the majority come here via the UK - flights/ferry to Belfast and then cross the border on bus/taxi/train. The Dept of Justice said some time ago that the first time the majority of asylum seekers show up on irish radars is when they walk into the offices in Dublin city centre and apply there!!!! Some come in by air allright, but on false papers which they destroy before claiming asylum.....

we're a joke and we're watching our country get ripped off in front of our eyes -

Hobbes · 05-04-2006 09:52PM

miju wrote:

correct and under the immigration act should be deported (cant remember what section off the top of my head think its 13 )

Do you see me disputing that at any time?

do you know his case specifics then if you do then please elaborate more??? cos i'd be willing to bet all asylum seekers from nigeria are financial refugees (and i'm aware of what i mean by saying all)

Heres a thought, why don't you bother to read up on the case and him. There are numerous threads on him but even 20 seconds in google will get you the reason as to his asylum request.

Morningstar wrote:

I used your figures and it prooves that people coming here are denied asylumn.

I'm sorry I still don't understand wtf you are going on about. Of course people are denied asylum and in quite a few cases they are chancing thier arms to get here.

. A us citizen working in Ireland would be on that list.

So? Are you saying only Nigerians should be refused entry to Ireland? How about Americans of Nigerian decent?

What you seem to fail to understand is 48,632 applied for asylum once. WHile they file for that they are here and doing stuff.

What stuff exactly? They can't work, they have to stay in camps set up for them and they are extremly limited cash access. What is your solution? To refuse everyone or let them starve?

What was the reason he claimed to be here and why was he not granted asylum?

You mean you haven't actually read up on the case? Why not go do it now.

I don't know where you live but crack cocaine is linked to nigerian gangs directly in Dublin.

I don't know where you live but you could get all manners of drugs from Irish criminal gangs as well.

Hobbes · 05-04-2006 10:06PM

Delboy05 wrote:

but the reason that so many are still here is because of the Irish born baby fiasco.

Bull.

In 2002, 5% of the national housing waiting list was made up of former asylum seekers

Ok I am trying to understand this. You are basically saying those that are approved to stay a certain amount of them make up the national housing list.

Here is a question for you. What was the level of waiting list that makes up 5% I am curious if you cross referenced that with the number of Refugees in Ireland at that time to see if they corrolate? Can you point me to the figures in question?

Also while that figure may or may not be true (lets assume it is) how the fuk do you expect refugees to get a home? Do you think they come to this country with a suitcase of money with them or something?

30% of the housing waiting list in Portlaoise as of 2005 is made up of former asylum seekers!!!!!

I would love to see your source on this.

these stats and others for previous years show that sub saharan africans have provided half of all new cases for the past 5 or so years.

Go read the link again. The only year where it gets close to 50% is 2004 and in no way gives any details as to if these people came here via Asylum process or Immigrant or are here temporary.

The only 2 craic cocaine factories found so far in Ireland....

Oh please what a load of BS. Just 5 seconds in google shows a number of factories found and with links to Paramilitary groups.

If that was true they all be refused permission to land and airlines would be getting their arses fined.

No that is not how it works. Once the person makes it to a country they can claim asylum.

If they landed in the UK first like you made out then they would be processed in the UK.

TiwstaSista · 05-04-2006 10:29PM

Hobbes wrote:

Bull.

No Hobbes. Bull to you. Heres the real story, from missionary friends of mine and aquaintances that travelled over there. Nigeria is abuzz with the joyous news of Ireland's "have a child on Irish soil can claim citizenship" law. Cats and dogs in the street were talking about it over there. Thats why we had such a raft of people coming over heavily pregnant, the men risking not only the lives of their child but that of the mothers in their knock kneed run for the sun. Is that really the kind of person you want as your neighbour? No, Hobbes, its not. I personally hope the lot of them get deported in a hurry, I'm sick of the sight of the abusive bastids. I mean what, we make a law which exemplifies cead mile failte, and these swine abuse that for their own benefit?

miju · 05-04-2006 10:31PM

Hobbes wrote:

Heres a thought, why don't you bother to read up on the case and him. There are numerous threads on him but even 20 seconds in google will get you the reason as to his asylum request.

well actually 10 minutes on google didn't turn up his reason for claiming asylum (would you mind pointing me to a link where i can read it)

Delboy05 · 05-04-2006 11:39PM

Hobbes wrote:

I would love to see your source on this.

Ah good man Hobbes - show me your source!!!!! I was waiting for that so i held back...for all the use it is to tell you anything as you don't read papers, don't seem to listen to the radio/or watch TV....are actually very uninformed on this whole subject.

My source for the 30% of the housing waiting list in Portlaoise been made up of former asylum seekers.....Sean Power TD, The Sunday Supplement on Today FM, 5th March last. There was a discussion on immigration and they got on to asylum.....see, if you had an interest in this topic you'd be listening out for this kind of info!!!!!

Delboy05 wrote:

but the reason that so many are still here is because of the Irish born baby fiasco.

Hobbes wrote:

Bull.

How is that bull - we;ve had, what 50,000 odd asylum seekers into this country. The vast majority get turned down, a few hundred have been deported....and by my figures 10,000 + 18,000 odd have been given leave to remain on the basis of an Irish born baby. Do the maths....

You can point yourself to the housing waiting list figures in your own good time - i've more to be doing...try the Dept. of the Environment. You have ignored previous links I have provided in other topics on this, even to national papers.

And as with a previous poster who you told to go google and found nothing- a google on irish craic cocaine factories does'nt land me with loads of stuff on paramilitaries etc as you seem to be saying. I merely point out the only 2 cases that I have seen or heard about where the Gardai found crack cocaine factories were nigerian asylum related...if you can link me to any others, I'd be delighted to read up on them.

Hobbes wrote:

If they landed in the UK first like you made out then they would be processed in the UK.

I can't decide whether your just 100% PC, innocent or in plain denial of whats going on.....how can they be processed in the UK when they merely pass through it to get here!!!!! Talk to people from newry as I have done on visits up there - they'll tell you about the business been done by taxi's ferrying asylum seekers across the border.....it's not made up - i've spoken to them myself.

Hobbes · 06-04-2006 07:46AM

miju wrote:

well actually 10 minutes on google didn't turn up his reason for claiming asylum (would you mind pointing me to a link where i can read it)

There should be google training classes. Searched for "Olukunle Eluhanla nigeria student " very first link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4379619.stm

Mr Eluhanla claimed asylum in Dublin after his father was killed in a shooting in Lagos.

Also goes into why his claim was rejected yet other reports from further links dispute that rejection.

Delboy05 wrote:

My source for the 30% of the housing waiting list in Portlaoise been made up of former asylum seekers.....Sean Power TD, The Sunday Supplement on Today FM, 5th March last.

Riiighht. And where did they get the source from? You do know that government figures are pretty transparent and you can find pretty much anything on the net on a subject. Of course you took some guy on a radio as gospel.

You will have try a wee bit harder then that.

and by my figures 10,000 + 18,000 odd have been given leave to remain on the basis of an Irish born baby. Do the maths....

Where do you get your information that these people are staying here based on a baby?

You can point yourself to the housing waiting list figures in your own good time - i've more to be doing...try the Dept. of the Environment.

Translation: You can't find them. I certainly can't find them and I have been looking, even had a wander through the Laois County Council meeting minutes.

a google on irish craic cocaine factories does'nt land me with loads of stuff on paramilitaries etc as you seem to be saying.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cocaine+factory+ireland&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Checked a number of the stories. See no mention of Nigerians. Then I added "Nigerian" to the search and found nothing.

your full of crap basically.

how can they be processed in the UK when they merely pass through it to get here!!!!!

The Dublin II convention is that the EU state the person enters the EU in processes them. Have you been on a boat lately? Its the same as getting on a plane. They check your passport and visa. Last time I checked UK is an EU state.

i've spoken to them myself.

I am sure you have. :rolleyes:

Victor · 06-04-2006 07:53AM

Kernel wrote:

TB is increasing ....since it was eradicated from Ireland years ago.

No, there are still domestic cases of TB in Ireland, although most of the patients are healthy enough to go home, at least one is permanently hospitalised.

miju wrote:

the majority of asylum seekers coming here are abusing this system and they pass on info to one another about their entitlements to the extent they used to know as much (and in some cases MORE than we knew in the repat unit altough granted we were at the end of the process so we wouldnt neccisarily have to know but you get what i mean)

sceptre wrote:

fao miju: I've said this before and I'm bored enough for thirty seconds to say it again, the Dublin Convention was replaced by the Dublin II Regulations in 24 out of 25 EU countries in 1998, including this one. Cite current legislation rather than stuff that hasn't been in effect in eight years. It'll make me feel better.

So, not only is miju a repatriation official who doesn't know what rules he is working under, but as a civil servant and probably a Garda, by posting such information is probably breaking his contract, the Official Secrets Act and a bunch of other stuff?

Hobbes · 06-04-2006 08:22AM

Incidently for those looking for figures to Asylum seekers on house waiting lists. To make your search a bit easier I'd like to point out that Asylum seekers cannot be put on house waiting lists. Refugees can.

Victor · 06-04-2006 08:30AM

Delboy05 wrote:

a more specific example: 30% of the housing waiting list in Portlaoise as of 2005 is made up of former asylum seekers!!!!!

Is that one former asylum seeker on a list of three people?

How big is the housing waiting list in Portlaoise? Noting that Laoise County Council have previously stated they will allow large numbers of commuter homes be built (for people working in Dublin) in the county so they can pocket the social housing contributions from builders - that is they wouldn't need the social housing contributions for the housing waiting list which was non-existant.

Failed asylum seekers flown to Nigeria

Comments