Failed asylum seekers flown to Nigeria

Heinrich

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1592754&issue_id=13879

I wonder did Kunle miss the flight?

Expensive doings!

MorningStar

Intresting to note the priority countries for deportation.

1) Eddire Hobbes would have us beleive that life is better in South Africa becasue you can buy desposible camera cheap there
2) How many have direct flights here?
3) Some of these countries have major desease problems such as Aids and TB.


ASylum should be granted to people in need but if you get off in a another country you should be sent back there at the cost of the country that allowed them come here.

I guess in years to come when some of these countries start exploiting their natural resources they can pay us back.

THis isn't about race or country but economics and manipulation of systems.

Hobbes

Heinrich wrote:

I wonder did Kunle miss the flight?

Expensive doings!

How did you wait to crack that little gem out? :rolleyes:

Heres something to keep you busy. Tells you how many Johhny Foriegners are allowed stay/not stay on day to day basis.

http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A21A5/vWeb/pcJUSQ65YEVF-en

3) Some of these countries have major desease problems such as Aids and TB.

Like Ireland?

Our man in Havana

I see Kunle is in today's indo. He is looking well. He was up in court again for driving without insurance and tax. So I can summise that he is still around.

Surely they could have got Ryanair or other cheapo option to send them back?

Pythia

Hobbes wrote:

Like Ireland?

Like Subsaharan Africa actually...

Dublin Aids Alliance wrote:

Of the 305 cases where geographic origin was known, 136 were born in Ireland and 130 were born in sub-Saharan Africa. Data on geographic origin is missing in 51 of the cases.

http://www.dublinaidsalliance.com/statistics.htm

Considering there's not a one-to-one SSAfrican/Irish population ratio, I'd say the OP's staement was correct.

Any person who claims asylum must do so in the first country they get to after leaving their own. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no direct flight from Nigeria to Ireland, and I don't remember Irish Ferries doing the Dublin-Lagos sailing any time recently.

So, that means anyone who claims asylum must be sent back to the country they entered Ireland from. It's not racism, it's following the rules.

Heinrich

Bond-007 wrote:

I see Kunle is in today's indo. He is looking well. He was up in court again for driving without insurance and tax. So I can summise that he is still around.

Surely they could have got Ryanair or other cheapo option to send them back?

Let's have a whip around to pay his insurance and tax. It must be embarassing to have to face that judge.

I'm still tring to figure out how he can afford the car in the first place.

Hobbes

Pythia wrote:

So, that means anyone who claims asylum must be sent back to the country they entered Ireland from. It's not racism, it's following the rules.

No one said it was and your wrong about where people claim asylum are placed. You can learn more here...

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/factsheets.html

Kernel

Heinrich wrote:

Let's have a whip around to pay his insurance and tax. It must be embarassing to have to face that judge.

I'm still tring to figure out how he can afford the car in the first place.

Good 'ol Kunle, a lad who wanted to finish the leaving cert and who looks like he's pushing 30 years of age.

Hobbes, I'm a bit confused about your 'like Ireland' comment? Ireland doesn't have an AIDS or TB problem, TB is increasing, but that's due to it being imported by Johnny Foreigners, since it was eradicated from Ireland years ago. Likewise, AIDS is rampant in many African countries, whereas the Irish infection rate is very very low.

MorningStar

Hobbes wrote:

How did you wait to crack that little gem out? :rolleyes:

Heres something to keep you busy. Tells you how many Johhny Foriegners are allowed stay/not stay on day to day basis.

http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A21A5/vWeb/pcJUSQ65YEVF-en

No it doesn't that is about VISAs into ireland no mention of asylum seekers. There is a big difference and your ignorance of the subject and blind defense are part of the problem when trying to deal fairly with people wanting to come here.

Like Ireland?[/QUOTE]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_chi_liv_wit_aid_percap/AFR

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_hiv_aid_dea_percap/AFR

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_hiv_aid_peo_liv_wit_hiv_aid_percap
Now we are 84th on that last list where are the countries on the priority list?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_tub_cas_per_100

We 142nd on this list and where are the other countries mentioned?

Now I see that peope would put my comments downs as racist or bigoted. The problem is the only people who are ignorant of the facts would. There are rules and laws governing the EU and some countries are ignoring them. To grant a visa from high risk countries we should do a blood test just like they do in the US. This is self preservation, entry to this country is a privledge not a right.
As pointed out the increase in our countries figures show an large portion of people living with HIV are not from Ireland. It is not racist to say that it is fact. Irish and Scottish people or decendants b are celiac that is fact not rascism

ferdi

MorningStar wrote:

entry to this country is a privledge not a right.

i think this is a point which escapes alot of people.

Heinrich

ferdi wrote:

i think this is a point which escapes alot of people.

Uncharitable but sadly true! Refugees in need rarely have the means to do longhaul journeys!

MorningStar

Heinrich wrote:

Uncharitable but sadly true! Refugees in need rarely have the means to do longhaul journeys!

What has charity to do with it. Many people enter this country for a better life not escape something. Economic imigrants abusing a system. From my understanding the people who get here are basically the well off in majority of cases as they can afford to get here. There are some helped by NGOs. I think any charity that supports corruption of the system should have their charity status removed as they support illegal transportation of people into this country. If they can be granted asylum here they can get it in an EU country which is the first country they enter in most cases.
I refuse to support any charity that I know do this and I urge others to do the same.

Heinrich

MorningStar wrote:

What has charity to do with it. Many people enter this country for a better life not escape something. Economic imigrants abusing a system. From my understanding the people who get here are basically the well off in majority of cases as they can afford to get here. There are some helped by NGOs. I think any charity that supports corruption of the system should have their charity status removed as they support illegal transportation of people into this country. If they can be granted asylum here they can get it in an EU country which is the first country they enter in most cases.
I refuse to support any charity that I know do this and I urge others to do the same.

That was irony! The whole issue is clouded with some sort of Nationalistic guilt! When the Irish went abroad they went to work and work hard they did. In those days there were no handouts as is the case here.

There are far too many questions which are nort being answered. The only way I ever got anything was by earning the cash to buy it!

Hobbes

MorningStar wrote:

Economic imigrants abusing a system.

You have any kind of facts to back that up or you just pulling that out of your arse.

Asylum seekers stats/rejections etc are freely available on the net, as are Visa listings (posted links above). Unless your on some alternate reality internet I would very much like to see where you got your facts from.

ferdi

look hobbes, you'd have to be an absolute fool not to realise that people are coming here on the make, trying to get whatever they can. the system is weak, unbalanced and easy to screw over. and i'm sure if i lived in a sh!tty country (in economic terms) i would do just the same, i dont blame the imigrants - who wouldnt do it in their position?

MorningStar

Hobbes wrote:

You have any kind of facts to back that up or you just pulling that out of your arse.

Sorry did I hear you applogise for your stupid comment on Ireland having a major HIV/AIDS and TB problem? The way I see it you pulled that from yourself as I proved.
I suggest you look up the origins of the people seeking asylum here specifically from Nigeria. Find out the wealth places, groups and tribes and see where the Nigerians in Ireland are coming from.
I heard one of the people on the refugee council explain their story. They described an economic migrant not somebody seeking asylum. W

Hobbes wrote:

Asylum seekers stats/rejections etc are freely available on the net, as are Visa listings (posted links above). Unless your on some alternate reality internet I would very much like to see where you got your facts from.

Your first attempt at giving us these facts failed so why don't you prove your point with actual facts and figures. Give us the figure for the number of application for asylum and the number refused. If you like you could break down the resaons for refusal. If you have a valid point I'll accept it but suggesting I made it up when so far you have been proved to be wrong is a bit rich and certainly removes the right for you to be indignant about facts.
VISAs do not equal asylum seekers and you provided a list not figures or statistics go get them and prove your point.

Pythia

We also have to remember all the illegal immigrants who don't show up in the figures at all.

nuttz

Heinrich wrote:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1592754&issue_id=13879

I wonder did Kunle miss the flight?

He was too busy getting a one year driving ban!

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1592890&issue_id=13879

Pythia

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/factsheets/dublinconvention4.html

Terribly sorry Hobbes, they must lodge their application in the first EU country they arrive in. Still very hard to go from Nigeria to Non EU country to Ireland.
Considering they're being persecuted and all.

Heinrich

nuttz wrote:

He was too busy getting a one year driving ban!

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1592890&issue_id=13879

No wonder he is smiling! He gets a driving ban for no tax and insurance and fined €250. Do you think he will respect the ban, knowing the leniancy of the fine which is being paid for by tyhe taxpayer in the first instance.

This is the second time he was convicted so why not continue on this winning streak!

MorningStar

nuttz wrote:

He was too busy getting a one year driving ban!

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=13879

I never understood why people thought he should be allowed stay. While here he willfully broke the law and he couldn't of made it here honestly. If you come here and seek aylumn you should respect the laws. The minister sent a very bad message by bringing him back.
It is even hard to say things like this without people calling you a bigot or worse.
I am waiting for Hobbes to come smit me

Heinrich

MorningStar wrote:

I never understood why people thought he should be allowed stay. While here he willfully broke the law and he couldn't of made it here honestly. If you come here and seek aylumn you should respect the laws. The minister sent a very bad message by bringing him back.
It is even hard to say things like this without people calling you a bigot or worse.
I am waiting for Hobbes to come smit me

I'm waiting for the next offence. Remember one can be constantly breaking the law without being caught. Food for thought.

The Minister is sending out very bad messages of late...

miju

Hobbes wrote:

You have any kind of facts to back that up or you just pulling that out of your arse.

Asylum seekers stats/rejections etc are freely available on the net, as are Visa listings (posted links above). Unless your on some alternate reality internet I would very much like to see where you got your facts from.

used to work in the repat unit (the office that deals with leave to remain / JR cases) and i can assue you it's entirely true that about 95% (at least) are financial refugees WHICH IS NOT classed as a genuine refugee anywhere in the EU (and i'm pretty sure the world for that matter)

at the end of the day the asylum seekers coming here are usually faced with the choice of being just below the bread line and having to pay / work to provide for themselves in their home country or coming here and being privded with shelter / food and money (altough not for cars and insurance as i've heard people say before LOL )

what choice would you make?

fao hobbes: i've said this before and i'll say it again, under the Dublin Convention it states that "a genuine reguee should claim asylum in the first safe country that they land in if they are fleeing from persecution" now can you tell me how many countries you go through / over on your way to Ireland via nigeria.

you ever see footage on the telly of people walking on foot miles to get to the border to claim asylum, that's essentially a genuine refugee, they dont care they go just once it's not where they're coming from

so by definition of that yes most of them are financial refugees and to be honest i've talked to plenty of failed asylum seekers (without telling them where i used to work) and they freely admitted that life in Nigeria is **** and are looking for a better life

the majority of asylum seekers coming here are abusing this system and they pass on info to one another about their entitlements to the extent they used to know as much (and in some cases MORE than we knew in the repat unit altough granted we were at the end of the process so we wouldnt neccisarily have to know but you get what i mean)

sceptre

miju wrote:

fao hobbes: i've said this before and i'll say it again, under the Dublin Convention it states

fao miju: I've said this before and I'm bored enough for thirty seconds to say it again, the Dublin Convention was replaced by the Dublin II Regulations in 24 out of 25 EU countries in 1998, including this one. Cite current legislation rather than stuff that hasn't been in effect in eight years. It'll make me feel better.

Hobbes

Pythia wrote:

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/factsheets/dublinconvention4.html

Terribly sorry Hobbes, they must lodge their application in the first EU country they arrive in.

Correct.. EU country. While we don't have direct flights to Nigeria a Nigerian can still claim asylum in such instances of...

1) Boarding a flight from a non-EU country to Ireland.
2) Getting on a boat that is going directly to Ireland (if it started off or dropped by Nigeria is immaterial).

MorningStar

sceptre wrote:

fao miju: I've said this before and I'm bored enough for thirty seconds to say it again, the Dublin Convention was replaced by the Dublin II Regulations in 24 out of 25 EU countries in 1998, including this one. Cite current legislation rather than stuff that hasn't been in effect in eight years. It'll make me feel better.

so what does it say?

Hobbes

MorningStar wrote:

Your first attempt at giving us these facts failed

Only failed because your incapable of reading. Ooh look 5 seconds on the site I find Dublin II and some stats for you.

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/

MorningStar

Hobbes wrote:

Correct.. EU country. While we don't have direct flights to Nigeria a Nigerian can still claim asylum in such instances of...

1) Boarding a flight from a non-EU country to Ireland.
2) Getting on a boat that is going directly to Ireland (if it started off or dropped by Nigeria is immaterial).

Hey Hobbes where are your facts or could you not find any?

MorningStar

Hobbes wrote:

Only failed because your incapable of reading. Ooh look 5 seconds on the site I find Dublin II and some stats for you.

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/

VISA application are not the same as Asylum claims do you understand that?

That was a list of case granted Visas include and American , Australina etc.. who wants to work here.
The Irish Refugee Council is an organisation wanting to get people here and protect those here. The same way I wouldn't trust a Neo Nazi party I don't trust them due to bias.

Hobbes

miju wrote:

used to work in the repat unit (the office that deals with leave to remain / JR cases)

Then you should be able to point us to those statistics you are claiming exist, although your knowledge of recent legistration doesn't bode well.

Hey Hobbes where are your facts or could you not find any?

Look above, or do I have to hold your hand to actually click a link?

Hobbes

MorningStar wrote:

VISA application are not the same as Asylum claims do you understand that?

That was a list of case granted Visas include and American , Australina etc.. who wants to work here.

ROFL.. you didn't even click the link did you? That site refers to Asylum seekers not Visa applications.

miju

sceptre wrote:

fao miju: I've said this before and I'm bored enough for thirty seconds to say it again, the Dublin Convention was replaced by the Dublin II Regulations in 24 out of 25 EU countries in 1998, including this one. Cite current legislation rather than stuff that hasn't been in effect in eight years. It'll make me feel better.

very strange becuase the dublin convention was in place when i was working in repat in 1998, stranger still as Dublin II only came into effect in Sept 2003 and states that the Dublin Convention is an agreement that still exisits between all member EU states and that under Dublin II pretty much the Dublin Convention rules still apply

have a read for yourself http://oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/seeking_asylum/dublin_convention.html

waste of thirty seconds :-)

ferdi

people defending these financial imigrants is so laughable, i cant believe your serious. your so blindly PC that you cant see the wood for the trees anymore.

i've no problem with people coming here for a better life, but:

Dont come here under false pretences and Dont expect to get state benifit for nothing.

MorningStar

Hobbes wrote:

ROFL.. you didn't even click the link did you? That site refers to Asylum seekers not Visa applications.

Your first link was for Visas and your second link is a bias sourse.I don't reacall you withdrawing your incorect claim about Ireland.

Heinrich

ferdi wrote:

people defending these financial imigrants is so laughable, i cant believe your serious. your so blindly PC that you cant see the wood for the trees anymore.

i've no problem with people coming here for a better life, but:

Dont come here under false pretences and Dont expect to get state benifit for nothing.

And respect the laws of the land.

ionapaul

I'm sure many have seen this before, but it is a classic:

http://ascc.artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/courses/306/nigeria_counterpoint.html

All of us would do what we could, pay what we could and lie about whateve we could to better our lives by the degree many better their lives coming to Ireland and working the system...as horrible a life it may seem to most of us.

MorningStar

Even using the Refugee councils figures it shows

48,632+22,806=71438 cases in total heard for asylum

2,792+4,022+6,814=13628 were granted

Now correct I would not say that all those refusals are down to false claims but even 50% shows it looks bad. I'd like to see the resons for refusals still.

"A total of 3,732 people were refused 'leave to land' in Ireland up until the 31st October 2005 i.e. they were turned away on arrival at an Irish port/airport or held in an Irish prison until a flight could be arranged for them."

That doesn't sound good to me either so what is the defence?

Hobbes

MorningStar wrote:

Your first link was for Visas and your second link is a bias sourse.I don't reacall you withdrawing your incorect claim about Ireland.

The second link isn't a biased source. How do you figure that one out? They cite actual figures from the government and point you to the government documents some of you failed to read before. Please let me know how you figure out that they are biased?

Recall what incorrect claim? Yous are the ones trying to infer that everyone that comes from the country is diseased as some kind of FUD to prove a point to the argument. Ever occur to you that these people actually recieve medical checks when they enter the country.

I point about the first link was in reference to people not being able to see the difference between an Asylum seeker and "Financial immigrant". Two different things.

Also people seem to think because the person is Nigerian that they magically came straight from Nigeria, which is not always the case and there are ways to get to Ireland without having to pass through a Neighbouring EU country. Add to that people are under the misconception that the laws were made to keep people out of our country when in fact it refers to processing of asylum applications.

Incidently there were approx 55,000 people on Irish roads (last year) without tax, insurance, license and the vast majority of them are Irish. Wish we could deport a few of those muppets too.

ionapaul

Arn't people trying to say that many / most of the Asylum seekers *are* financial immigrants?

Hobbes

MorningStar wrote:

Now correct I would not say that all those refusals are down to false claims but even 50% shows it looks bad. I'd like to see the resons for refusals still.

What exactly are you trying to say? What it says to me there are chancers trying to get here but they are getting turned away. Or are you trying to infer those who made it through the system don't deserve to be here?

Hobbes

ionapaul wrote:

Arn't people trying to say that many / most of the Asylum seekers *are* financial immigrants?

It might be that, however even if this is true then the large number being rejected would imply the system is looking to ensure these people don't break this loophole.

Also bare in mind that Khune wasn't a financial immigrant. He did however break the law while he was here.

CyberGhost

Failed asylum seekers flown to Nigeria

Good!

Hobbes

CyberGhost wrote:

Good!

Another misconception is that the "PC brigade" see this as a bad thing. It isn't. They failed the tests to be proven as an asylum seeker then deporting them is a non-issue.

panda100

Bond-007 wrote:

I see Kunle is in today's indo. He is looking well. He was up in court again for driving without insurance and tax. So I can summise that he is still around.

Surely they could have got Ryanair or other cheapo option to send them back?

Ah kunle is great-he looks like a really nice guy!He's fitted more in to his three years over here in Ireland than most people do in their lifetime,doing the leaving,fathering a child,getting a driving ban,protesting outside the dail.

I dont like minister McDowell and his deportation ethos.My parents went to England when they couldnt get any work over here like the millions of other Irish people who went to america,australia and worldwide.I cant justify sending these people back to Nigeraiawhen they have a threat to their lives for returning.It just isnt right

ferdi

panda100 wrote:

I cant justify sending these people back to Nigeraiawhen they have a threat to their lives for returning.It just isnt right

no one is doing that. people who come here illegally in order to rape the state should however be sent packing.

miju

Hobbes wrote:

Incidently there were approx 55,000 people on Irish roads (last year) without tax, insurance, license and the vast majority of them are Irish. Wish we could deport a few of those muppets too.

irrelevant to the conversation as an irish person cannot be made stateless and it's we're not talking about Irish people we're discussing ASYLUM SEEKERS here but since you brought it upwhere did you pull that figure from????

Hobbes wrote:

He did however break the law while he was here.

correct and under the immigration act should be deported (cant remember what section off the top of my head think its 13 )

Hobbes wrote:

Also bare in mind that Khune wasn't a financial immigrant.

do you know his case specifics then if you do then please elaborate more??? cos i'd be willing to bet all asylum seekers from nigeria are financial refugees (and i'm aware of what i mean by saying all)

panda100 wrote:

I cant justify sending these people back to Nigeraiawhen they have a threat to their lives for returning.It just isnt right

what threat exactly????

ferdi

miju, it has been my experience that anyone i've come across who deals with asylum seekers in an official capacity (ie: works for a state body, not support group etc) is completely disillusioned by them because they are mostly here for financial gain, not due to any threat to their lives. is this honest to god the case? i suppose it must be as anyone i've met whos in the business confirms it

Santa Claus

panda100 wrote:

My parents went to England when they couldnt get any work over here like the millions of other Irish people who went to america,australia and worldwide.

I can't believe people still compare Irish emigrants to asylum seekers/refugees.
The fact that Irish people went all over the world to seek work is correct. However if anything these people avoided any contact with goverment institutions in their new homeland and just kept their heads down, worked as hard as they could and tried to save their money.
Not quite the same as someone who arrives in Ireland and demands whatever financial benefits are available to them from the goverment !

MorningStar

Hobbes wrote:

The second link isn't a biased source. How do you figure that one out? They cite actual figures from the government and point you to the government documents some of you failed to read before. Please let me know how you figure out that they are biased?

I used your figures and it prooves that people coming here are denied asylumn.

Hobbes wrote:

Recall what incorrect claim? Yous are the ones trying to infer that everyone that comes from the country is diseased as some kind of FUD to prove a point to the argument. Ever occur to you that these people actually recieve medical checks when they enter the country.

I infered nothing I stated fact and gave figures. You suggest Ireland had a TB and AIDS/HIV problem. Read back becasue a few people pointed it out to you becasue it was such a stupid thing to say. Are they refused entry based on medical condition?

Hobbes wrote:

I point about the first link was in reference to people not being able to see the difference between an Asylum seeker and "Financial immigrant". Two different things.

No you didn't and it didn't prove anything. AS I pointed out it was a list of cases nothing more or less and it was for visas. A us citizen working in Ireland would be on that list. SOmebody coming to this country seeiking asylum could be coming here for money a visa list proves nothing on this. YOu didn't show a difference

Hobbes wrote:

Also people seem to think because the person is Nigerian that they magically came straight from Nigeria, which is not always the case and there are ways to get to Ireland without having to pass through a Neighbouring EU country. Add to that people are under the misconception that the laws were made to keep people out of our country when in fact it refers to processing of asylum applications.

What are you saying? Tell us these magical ways of getting here without entry into another EU country. I didn't claim the law was to keep people out and I didn't see anybody claim that here

Hobbes wrote:

Incidently there were approx 55,000 people on Irish roads (last year) without tax, insurance, license and the vast majority of them are Irish. Wish we could deport a few of those muppets too.

So what has that got to do with anything. WHen you are a guest you are expected to act better plain and simple.

What you seem to fail to understand is 48,632 applied for asylum once. WHile they file for that they are here and doing stuff. Khune was here breaking the law while he was here. What was the reason he claimed to be here and why was he not granted asylum?
While here and getting little money with wealth around them are you telling me these people are not working or doing better here than at home?
I don't know where you live but crack cocaine is linked to nigerian gangs directly in Dublin. There are other crimes and scams specifically linked to various differnet nationalities in this country now. Do you have the figures for the amount of people marked for deportation that are unaccounted for. Once you are in the black market you get involved in lots of it.

Stop accusing people of statment and views not made and pay attention.

ferdi

Santa Claus wrote:

I can't believe people still compare Irish emigrants to asylum seekers/refugees.
The fact that Irish people went all over the world to seek work is correct. However if anything these people avoided any contact with goverment institutions in their new homeland and just kept their heads down, worked as hard as they could and tried to save their money.
Not quite the same as someone who arrives in Ireland and demands whatever financial benefits are available to them from the goverment !

thank you, i've been saying this for years, what a retarded argument it is.

miju

ferdi wrote:

miju, it has been my experience that anyone i've come across who deals with asylum seekers in an official capacity (ie: works for a state body, not support group etc) is completely disillusioned by them because they are mostly here for financial gain, not due to any threat to their lives. is this honest to god the case? i suppose it must be as anyone i've met whos in the business confirms it

the genuine cases are very few and far between and the system is honest and too bloody fair and the genuine ones do get granted asylum or leave to remain, the cases are poured over carefully and every claim made in a case is cross referenced becuase ultimately it has to stand up in the high court so everything is done to a high standard

the reason while most people who are involved with them in an official say they're financial refugees is because they are, alot of effort goes into deporting a person, alot of cost and they laugh at the GNIB when being deported and tell them they'll be back next month under a new name.

and thats not including the dual appliactions that are known about (and they're quite alot of them as well) so they're getting double (that said when they're caught they're usually out of the country so fast