Irish population to grow by a 3rd, immigrants could make up 1 in 5 by 2020

ferdi wrote:

and most of them are no at all integrated into german society at all. after all this time they are seen, and see themselves, as Gastarbeiter still. ireland must take heed of the german, austrian and dutch examples.

And there is a huge difference between immigrants being arabs and immigrants coming from Eastern Europe. For the most part the immigrants that are coming into the country are not muslims. They're not part of a religion that encourages them to stay removed from society. The problem with the Arabs in Germany, Holland, and Austra, was that they themselves kept themselves apart from those societies, and remain apart to this day.

Eastern Europeans don't have that drawback, with neither religious or cultural requirements to keep apart. These people will join our society, and will for the most part be grateful that they have the chance to improve their lives and the lives of their children.

You can't compare immigration of Arabs to that of non-arabs. They're simply put too different.

i am pro immegration. ireland has been genetically stagnent since the plantations and we need a good kick up the arse generally.
however, lets not be niaeve here. everything is not fine.

What have these immigrants done to rouse your suspicions? What have they done to earn your distrust? The majority of immigrants I have met have been friendly, and actually make an effort to meet new people.

I moved into my own home in an estate in November. There are five houses occupied at the moment. 3 houses by immigrants (Polish), and 2 Irish families. I've met the Polish, and been invited in for drinks by them. I haven't even gotten an acknowledgement by the Irish, when they drive by in the morning.
:rolleyes:

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

i dont have any probs with immigrants coming over,with the amount of emmigration and globalisation there will be no white people in years to come anyway so that doesnt bother me,but we have to ensure our culture is preserved .

Interesting, I thought the majority of these immigrants were coming from eastern European countries where the people are actually white. Where are all these "coloured" people going to come from?

As for culture, they're more likely to become more Irish than the Irish themselves. Just like immigrants in the US, are in many case more American than domestic americans.

Frankly beyond guinness, paddy's day, and ceilli dancing, I can't think of what Irish culture is.

ferdi wrote:

yes but ireland is not europe. ireland is an island next to europe. no matter how hard we try and convince ourselves otherwise. we are getting there but alot done, more to do etc. people, culture, society etc etc in mainland europe are still very different to that of ireland and britain.

True, but times change. The Ireland today is very different to the Ireland of the 60's. The idea of black refugees living in rural villages would have been alien to them, and yet we have that happening to this day, and people generally accepting them. We have an Ireland, where many people have travelled to countries both in Europe and outside of it. We have a change in the opinions of the country where what was always accepted in the past, is no longer good enough.

People are starting to question who we are and why we continue to do the same things. We joined the EU, because we saw the advantages of it. I know a fair number of people who are proud to be European. Proud of being Irish also, but just as proud to be members of the EU. They see that we don't have to be alone. We don't have to isolate ourselves. We don't have to be one single little backwater nation. We can be European. And the EU is the answer to that.

i have one irish parent, one central european parent, i went to a european orientated school in dublin for 14years with a mix of irish and european children and teachers. since earliest infincy i have gone to mainland europe regularly for holidays, visiting family etc. i would describe myself as irish first, then european. if we are talking about "europe" the concept, you must admit we are still very far away from our continental cousin in so many ways. and i believe this is vital. i believe each european state must maintain and defend its own culture, society, attitude with vigor. i fear the day we all call ourselves european, it is europe's diversity which makes it something worth being part of.

I'm totally Irish. My dad was born near Carraroe, my mum from near Kilkenny. I learnt to speak Irish first, and then English. I was raised by open minded parents, both of whom are teachers. My Dads family taught me about every rebellion and republician belief that they could impart, and my mum's side taught me what they could of their own English ancestry. I left school with my highest marks in History and Irish. I've travelled most of Europe, and a number of countries outside.

And I agree. We do need to retain our individuality. I certainly do agree. But not at the expense of joining the real world. I've seen the difference in attitide and personality of many countries, and I can't say that Ireland ranks very highly amongst them.

Irish people despite all the good thats happened to them, seem to want to dwell in the victimised category. We were occupied by the British for hundreds of years. The famine destroyed us as a people and we must keep that memory alive as much as possible. We must rear our children with stories of how the British brutilised our people, our culture and our religion. Our people emmigrated to most countries in the world, and made them what they are today. bla bla bla.

Do you want to constantly live in the past, or at least make an effort to make things better? Cause I certainly don't want to see the same crap repeated generation upon generation. Joining Europe properly. Accepting our membership, and our involvement in Europe for more than we can just get for free, is what is needed for this country to get a grip. And accepting Europeans into our country, welcoming them, and making them part of us, is the best way to do this. Quite a nice way of saying "thank you" aswell.

thats pretty sad man. but come to think of it it i guess i cant really put into words what irishness and irish culture is, irish is something you feel i think. if you are ashamed of ireland for being naff then maybe you should move to poland or latvia? in the end, if your not interested in calling yourself irish, you are no good to europe.

For many years I was very proud of being Irish. I would look back at the struggles of my people and be proud of their efforts. Proud of what irish people have done. Proud that our little nation is doing so well amongst the big boys of Europe. And I still retain some pride in that.

However, as time went by I started to question what it meant to be Irish. And about 4 years after college, sitting in a bar in Teneriffe, myself and a group of Irish, British, and Spanish friends were speaking about Europe and what we thought about our individual countries. And after thinking about this country for the last 30 years I couldn't dreg up any pride anymore.

I couldn't even say that Irish people were so much friendlier than elsewhere. I met more friendly people in a week in Moscow (where fewe people spoke English), than I did during a year in Dublin (where everyone apparently speaks it). All I could think of was the constant ****ups the series of last governments have made. The rising prices, the downward spiral of Irish attitude, and the level of snobbiness that seem to pervade the country. And things have gotten worse.

You suggest that I move to another country. I probably will. I can't see any benefit to living here anymore. And I hope to God, that the people of the country I move to are alot more friendly than some of the responses Irish people have to these immigrants. But there's hope. I do see the possibility that Irish people will accept these people, and will allow these people to share their lives. And if that happens then at least I'll have found something to be proud of about Irish people.

As for my not being good enough for Europe, you're the one that seems to want to remain apart. (Or rather gain the benefits, but contribute nothing) I'll contribute the same way I have to Ireland. I'll continue to pay my taxes (which will probably be lower, or receive better benefits for those taxes), I'll obey their laws, I'll live my life. Possibly raise children. Being irish is a state of the mind in many ways. I just have no interest in paying through the nose in soooo many ways for something that I can't honestly see any benefit in.

I'm not expecting you to believe the same. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right. If you can continue to feel pride in this country and the people, good for you. I no longer can.