Irish population to grow by a 3rd, immigrants could make up 1 in 5 by 2020

PullMyFinger!

Looks like the housing market is safe then eh? Comments?

super_furry

According to who exactly?

Kojak

All these extra workers will be fine if the economy will continue to grow and be able to take them - if, however, it takes a downturn there will be alot of people looking assistance from the government

PullMyFinger!

super_furry wrote:

According to who exactly?

I thought it was all over the news this morning, or maybe it was just TV3.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10005286.shtml

Delboy05

super_furry wrote:

According to who exactly?

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1585137&issue_id=13831

25% of our population to be immigrants by 2020...scary. In 25 years it will have gone from about 5% to 20% - the govt have lost control in my opinion.
Germany brought in turks after the war as they needed workers...but immigrants dont go home en masse after a few years when the work drys up. They put down roots, have families (usually larger than the indigenous population). So now that Germany has 10% or so unemployment and has been in a slump for the last 10 years , they have 3m turks alone, or so that cause a lot of resentment amongst the native german workforce, especially in the areas of low paid employment.

I just cannot see why the govt. here is so hell bent on risking the long term future,shape and culture of our country for the sake of 10 odd years of above average economic growth.......Have we being asked if we want this continued unlimited immigration to continue???? Has anyone looked at the long term ramifications (see riots in France, murder of film makers in holland, riots in the Uk, suicide bombings in the UK/Spain).....

Tazz T

It's all well and good encouraging workers to come here to stimulate the economy, but the government are doing very little to provide the infrastructure for the increase in population. Which is where the big problems will lie in the future.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Tazz T wrote:

It's all well and good encouraging workers to come here to stimulate the economy, but the government are doing very little to provide the infrastructure for the increase in population. Which is where the big problems will lie in the future.

Report is by NCB Stockbrokers - you can download the full report from their website.

The government is not 'doing very little'. I think you just threw that out as a stock reply. The country built 80,000 houses last year, new roads, railways, hospital spaces, schools are coming online... That sounds like doing something, rather than nothing...

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

PullMyFinger! wrote:

immigrants could make up 1 in 5 by 2020

Irish-descent people make up 30% of Manchester, maybe we could all move there?

PullMyFinger!

Roundtower2 wrote:

Irish-descent people make up 30% of Manchester, maybe we could all move there?

I was just stating the facts, I have no problem with it.

MrJoeSoap

Roundtower2 wrote:

Irish-descent people make up 30% of Manchester, maybe we could all move there?

Major difference between "immigrants" and "people of X descent".

Tazz T

Roundtower2 wrote:

Report is by NCB Stockbrokers - you can download the full report from their website.

The government is not 'doing very little'. I think you just threw that out as a stock reply. The country built 80,000 houses last year, new roads, railways, hospital spaces, schools are coming online... That sounds like doing something, rather than nothing...

We have an appalling rail network. The majority of these people will be living in a vastly increased Dublin. The Luas may have been expanded and we'll have a metro to the airport, but there are very few plans to get these people to work. There certainly won't be an underground system like London in 2020.

PullMyFinger!

Australia anyone?

Fitzer123

We need workers to handle the growth in the economy and there are so many benifits to having a mix of cultures.

It was not so long ago that we were the immigrants.

The problem here is the Governments lack of planning when intigrating people into society and the fact that they would not allow people to work upon their arrival in Ireland but we simply blame immigrants and called them spongers.

The percentage of unemployed immigrants is so low that I would be surprised if they made up a half of one percent of the population.

Dyr

there are so many benifits to having a mix of cultures

Such as? Ive heard this a lot but no-one ever lists them

Dilly1

Tazz T wrote:

It's all well and good encouraging workers to come here to stimulate the economy, but the government are doing very little to provide the infrastructure for the increase in population. Which is where the big problems will lie in the future.

The Government have no control over what is happening now, so you can bet your house (had to get that joke in) that they will totally screw it all up and leave Ireland full of slums with no proper infrastructure in place. :eek:

Dilly1

Bambi wrote:

there are so many benifits to having a mix of cultures

Such as? Ive heard this a lot but no-one ever lists them

Better looking women.

Better at sports because the population will no longer consist totally of piss heads.

Bambi

Bambi wrote:

there are so many benifits to having a mix of cultures

Such as? Ive heard this a lot but no-one ever lists them

I don't know about a proper list of benefits but I can think of a few.

For example the influx of foreigners coming to live here, has at least raised the standard of women in the country. Its amazing the number of very attractive women I see around these days.

Added to this is the personality differences. For the most part, the immigrants coming into the country are quite good natured, and generous. I have polish tenants on either side of my house, and they're extremely nice people. As are the Lithuanian couple a few doors down. The only time I met my Irish neighbours was when they had something to complain about.

The increase of new cultures helps to drive us away from the traditional mindset that tends to rule the country. The Angelus at 6 on the TV is a prime example. Little things but they do show how traditional and slow changing Ireland is at times.

Added to this, new citizens means new voters. Do you really think these new people will tolerate the same crap that we've put up with from the government? irish people traditionally won't give a **** about things, as long as it doesn't directly affect them, and even then, we're reluctant to get off our asses to do anything about it. New voters, and new citizens would at least give some potential movement away from this kind of attitude.

But overall, I quite like the fresh infusion of blood into the country. Ireland is a bit self-involved, and the newcomers will add a bit of spice to personal relationships, and even just general nightlife.

Lol. Overall, it sounds very good to me. Two Thumbs up.

jsr

Bambi wrote:

there are so many benifits to having a mix of cultures

Such as? Ive heard this a lot but no-one ever lists them

Any you couldn't think of any of your own?:rolleyes:
The Food people, don't forget about the food. Gone are the days of the spud as the staple. We now have dishes from all over the world cooked by people who know what they taste like. Damn immigrants coming in here taking our pots (bless 'em).

franksm

Bambi wrote:

there are so many benifits to having a mix of cultures

Such as? Ive heard this a lot but no-one ever lists them

makes for good variation of the gene pool

Dyr

franksm makes a compelling argument, franksm for teh win. Everyone else nil point for vague generalisation's and the usual stereotyping.

And i like the angelus, its ringy

Galvia

Delboy05 wrote:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1585137&issue_id=13831

25% of our population to be immigrants by 2020...scary.

Have we being asked if we want this continued unlimited immigration to continue????

I'm descended from one of the original 14 tribes of Gaillimh. There's a lot of debate on how they got here. Ireland is a land of immigrants. It's just when you start the clock and claim native versus immigrant. So is this an argument of supply and demand, and how letting too many immigrants into the present day country would impact on the job market? If so, what would be the appropriate percentage to set annual immigration at, and based upon what criteria? Or is this an opinion about natives verses immigrants, which is problematic and essentially unsupportable given Ireland's history of immigration?

justsomebloke

Bambi wrote:

And i like the angelus, its ringy

LOL, ye they should think of doing a few different remixes add some new life to it,

anyway i don't care how many immigrants there are once everyone is having lots and lots of babies so there is a good large workforce to help to pay my pension when i retire in 45 odd years or so at 70ish

Gurgle

jsb wrote:

anyway i don't care how many immigrants there are once everyone is having lots and lots of babies so there is a good large workforce to help to pay my pension when i retire in 45 odd years or so at 70ish

Same for me, and a 23 yo wife with Halle Berry's complexion to entertain me during my retirement.

jimbono1

I suggest anyone who thinks because of the influx of immigrants that everythings gonna be great and well have beautiful women, amazing food and the likes, that they try living in Peckham in London for a good few years, trust me, your opinion will change very fast. Very very fast

franksm

s'long as we don't have to start driving on the right

I suggest anyone who thinks because of the influx of immigrants that everythings gonna be great and well have beautiful women, amazing food and the likes, that they try living in Peckham in London for a good few years, trust me, your opinion will change very fast. Very very fast

Dont know much abt Peckham, what sort of immigrants settled there?

Thing is that the immigration to Ireland is a recent thing. They're bringing with them a very different culture, educational qualities, etc compared to that of the 200+ years that England had with people coming from the colonies. Added to that England received a large boost in immigration during the 60's and 70's which contained mostly people of the arab/muslim variety.

Ireland on the other hand is receiving large numbers of eastern europeans, who for the most part have fairly decent educations, no real religious issues, and their political views are quite moderate. There is a crime element that will come over but that would happen with any immigration.

You cant really compare areas in England where immigration has been occuring for decades, to Ireland where the immigration has just really begun, and under different circumstances.

Bard

tbh, driving on the right makes more sense to me in a few ways...

I just can't remember any specific examples

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

as the report by NCB pointed out - most immigrants have above average education qualifications - surely going to help Ireland in the long run

- think the key issue is that we do what we did to the Normans and Vikings, make them feel "more Irish than the Irish themselves". Then we have a young population who are all pulling in the same direction. Make people feel alienated and they (obviously) won't feel part of society.

The huge issue for Ireland is that, like other European countries, we are getting older. As we get older we have to pay more in healthcare and pensions. If costs rise, then taxes have to rise.

Immigrants keep us younger, as they tend to be younger.

I really don't see it as an issue AND i realise that the OP wasn't trying to make it an issue. Although, there should be some sort of attempt at integration, maybe at a government level.

Perhaps, we can all celebrate Polish Day (is there one?), Chinese New Year etc in an attempt to get to know our new inhabitants?

blu_sonic

jimbono1 wrote:

I suggest anyone who thinks because of the influx of immigrants that everythings gonna be great and well have beautiful women, amazing food and the likes, that they try living in Peckham in London for a good few years, trust me, your opinion will change very fast. Very very fast

i lived in golders green for about a year and a half, before that i was in brixton and sutton, so i moved about london to say the least. i'm back in dublin at the mo.

i think it brings a lot of culture to the city as long as people aren't ghettoised which undoubtly will happen, londons so big it can cope with the influx but dublin being so small might have a problem accomadating these people.

Siogfinsceal

Delboy05 wrote:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1585137&issue_id=13831

25% of our population to be immigrants by 2020...scary. In 25 years it will have gone from about 5% to 20% - the govt have lost control in my opinion.
Germany brought in turks after the war as they needed workers...but immigrants dont go home en masse after a few years when the work drys up. They put down roots, have families (usually larger than the indigenous population). So now that Germany has 10% or so unemployment and has been in a slump for the last 10 years , they have 3m turks alone, or so that cause a lot of resentment amongst the native german workforce, especially in the areas of low paid employment.

I just cannot see why the govt. here is so hell bent on risking the long term future,shape and culture of our country for the sake of 10 odd years of above average economic growth.......Have we being asked if we want this continued unlimited immigration to continue???? Has anyone looked at the long term ramifications (see riots in France, murder of film makers in holland, riots in the Uk, suicide bombings in the UK/Spain).....

exactly I have been called ar acist and xenophobe for expressing similar views before. Im not either of those things I just do not understand why the government is encouraging such a hugh influx of peoople when we do not have enough infastrcuture to support them - if the economy hits a down turn we are screwed lads. . There are houses being built on every green pactch in sight but still not enough to match current demand let alone future demand. ?

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Siogfinsceal wrote:

I just do not understand why the government is encouraging such a hugh influx of peoople when we do not have enough infastrcuture to support them

First off, glad to have Irish people with your level of grammer and spelling on boards

Second, the government is not 'encouraging' people to come here. How do you feel they are doing that? Are they sending them each a letter saying, howerya lad, want to come to Ireland and take my voter's jobs?"

Third, how have you personally been affected by the issue?

Fourth, the economy is forecast to grow at 6 percent per year for the next four years, primarily as a result of the increase in immigrants, so no economic downturn is expected.

Fifth, read my previous post re pensions

The_Minister

Deleted User wrote:

There is a crime element that will come over but that would happen with any immigration.
.

Thats unfair. I say statistics a while ago that said that crime by poles is lower per capita than the Irish. (but i think latvians are higher).

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Firespinner wrote:

Thats unfair. I say statistics a while ago that said that crime by poles is lower per capita than the Irish. (but i think latvians are higher).

Scorcese's "Gangs of New York".

Gurgle

Siogfinsceal wrote:

There are houses being built on every green pactch in sight but still not enough to match current demand let alone future demand. ?

Lets be a little more accurate here:
There are houses being built on every green patch within 10 miles of a Dublin suburb.
Not the same thing at all.
Most of the country is still drastically underpopulated by the standards of everywhere on earth except Australia/New Zealand.

(Due btw to the immigration of millions over 150+ years)

blu_sonic

is it the gov that ghettoises (spelling) these people or do they choose to live in areas with their fellow country folk. i know in London in the 50's the Irish choose to live together as it gave them a sence of community, it IMO makes it hard for the people to intergrate into the larger society.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Gurgle wrote:

Lets be a little more accurate here:
There are houses being built on every green patch within 10 miles of a Dublin suburb.
Not the same thing at all.
Most of the country is still drastically underpopulated by the standards of everywhere on earth except Australia/New Zealand.

(Due btw to the immigration of millions over 150+ years)

antartica is fairly unpopulated aswell!

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

blu_sonic wrote:

is it the gov that ghettoises (spelling) these people or do they choose to live in areas with their fellow country folk. i know in London in the 50's the Irish choose to live together as it gave them a sence of community, it IMO makes it hard for the people to intergrate into the larger society.

from what i've read the gov has a policy of trying to prevent ghettos in an attempt to stop same-race crimes. thus, they stopped a china town being created because it would give an opening to triads.

not sure how successful they have been though, espec if you look at the moore street, parnell street areas

blu_sonic

Roundtower2 wrote:

from what i've read the gov has a policy of trying to prevent ghettos in an attempt to stop same-race crimes. thus, they stopped a china town being created because it would give an opening to triads.

not sure how successful they have been though, espec if you look at the moore street, parnell street areas

thats exactly what i mean, if these people are intergated into the mass public then i've no problem i think its ghetto lifestyles that cause the problems. ie we distrust "them" as we can't relate to "them", the chances organised crime is wider (look at the triads in london)(look at the mafia in new york).

Firespinner

Firespinner wrote:

Thats unfair. I say statistics a while ago that said that crime by poles is lower per capita than the Irish. (but i think latvians are higher).

How is what I said unfair? I didn't target any specific grouping of immigrants as having that element of crime.

But it will happen that some people will come to Ireland with established links to crime, or won't find success here and turn to crime. Thats human nature. We've already seen it from the refugees from African countries. Most of them seek jobs, and live their lives by the law, however, there are some that have turned to drug dealing and other forms of crime to suplement their incomes.

I'm sure some irish people have done the same when they emmigrated to England in the 60's/70's or in the US nowadays. I just see it as being a normal part of any immigration from any country.

Lux23

Immigration has been a positive experience for Ireland economically, in fact it is one of the main reasons that our economy keeps growing at such a fantastic rate. Why is this? Because what is keeping this country booming is consumer spending and the more people we have here the more spending there is. But the government really has to get going on better transport, hospitals and housing or there will be an awful lot of people left behind.

Beer is Life

Personally, I can't understand why the government wants to rely on immigrants to sustain this economic growth. Why not make it easier on Irish parents (financially etc) and encourage them to have more kids?

the Guru

I think its a great thing, those eastern european girls are really easy on the eye, think of your children as least they will have good looking partners, not some beefy bitch from mullingar :-)

Feenikusu

I want to move to Ireland after university, because here in Germany it's more or less impossible to get a job...so maybe I will be one of those many imigrants, but now that gnaws at my conscience...Oo
I think it can be very interesting to have multicultural people, I would be very happy if we had some other cultures beside turkish, but that can also become very annoying.

Gurgle

Feenikusu wrote:

I want to move to Ireland after university

If you're studying civil engineering or biotechnology, you'll be fine.
If its IT, you'll be dumped into a call centre by the first recruitment agent that gets his hands on you.

btw, plenty of Irish engineers are working in Germany. Theres a reason for that.

ferdi

ireland does not have the infestructure or maturity to accept this many newcomers.

why do people use the 'the irish were once the immigrants' argument? it does not fit this scenario at all/

irish went chiefly to america, uk, australia, canada....huge countries with large populations...ireland is neither of these things....stop using this stupid, out of context argument.

i am the offspring of irish+migant so dont get me wrong - i am the multicultural society people are looking for but...letting large volumes of people in willy nilly with no real preperation, safe-guards or control is asking for trouble and you'd want to be a damn fool not to see that.

SpAcEd OuT

Roundtower2 wrote:

Perhaps, we can all celebrate Polish Day (is there one?), Chinese New Year etc in an attempt to get to know our new inhabitants?

Any excuse for a day off work

ninebeanrows

I definately think there should be a cap on Immigrants coming into the country,
a cap changeable annuallyu by the government to meet demands.

Its not like the immigrants will say feck it were not going cause they dont allow
us all go. They will be equally as interested in coming to the country.

IMO i have no problem with a certain amount of Immigrants in our country but
i will not look forward to the time when 25% or more of our countries population
is made up by immmigrants;)

Pherekydes

Roundtower2 wrote:

First off, glad to have Irish people with your level of grammer and spelling on boards

Pherekydes

Weathercheck wrote:

... our countries population...

Come on! We only have one country!

ferdi

ferdi wrote:

ireland does not have the infestructure or maturity to accept this many newcomers.

Infrastructure. Things are improving (lol. at least while the EU money was coming in), and the influx of immigrants may finally get our government to get off its collective asses. Lord knows, they haven't done it for us. A bit of pressure may push them through. Personally I think its well worth the risk, considering the benefits.

Maturity. Whats that got to do with anything? They're here in the country now. People will get used to it quite easily I think. The smoking ban has been accepted by most people, and that was probably more a shock to the general population than this will be.

why do people use the 'the irish were once the immigrants' argument? it does not fit this scenario at all/

Agreed. Times were VERY different then. We have a very different culture, and peoples perception of the world has changed since then mostly due to mass media, and the Internet.

i am the offspring of irish+migant so dont get me wrong - i am the multicultural society people are looking for but...letting large volumes of people in willy nilly with no real preperation, safe-guards or control is asking for trouble and you'd want to be a damn fool not to see that.

I can see that there will be problems. Thats a given. However the alternative is much worse. Irelands population is still too small. The Irish people (mass generalisation) are getting lazy, snobbish, and actually quite ignorant. We joined the EU when we could get the benefits. It was a great concept this whole thing of joining europe (and gaining loads of benefits), but now that europe wants to join us, you want to shy away?

When would it be ok for these people to join us? 5 years time, 10 years? Our governments rarely do anything productive as it is. 5 years from now, I could possibly believe that we might have 1 or 2 little motorways, a few toll brides in Dublin, and not much else. With the influx of immigrants, the government will HAVE to do more. The option to ignore the problems in the country by asking for more surveys (which would be completed in 2 years time), a few tribunals (3-4 years time), or some other delaying tactic, would be takena way from them. At least I hope so.

Nah. I'll welcome these immigrants to Ireland with open arms.

IDMUD

Should have stayed out of the EU if you didn't want immigration from other EU countries