Irish population to grow by a 3rd, immigrants could make up 1 in 5 by 2020

The_Minister · 24-03-2006 01:33PM

Deleted User wrote:

There is a crime element that will come over but that would happen with any immigration.
.

Thats unfair. I say statistics a while ago that said that crime by poles is lower per capita than the Irish. (but i think latvians are higher).

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 24-03-2006 01:35PM

Firespinner wrote:

Thats unfair. I say statistics a while ago that said that crime by poles is lower per capita than the Irish. (but i think latvians are higher).

Scorcese's "Gangs of New York".

Gurgle · 24-03-2006 02:01PM

Siogfinsceal wrote:

There are houses being built on every green pactch in sight but still not enough to match current demand let alone future demand. ?

Lets be a little more accurate here:
There are houses being built on every green patch within 10 miles of a Dublin suburb.
Not the same thing at all.
Most of the country is still drastically underpopulated by the standards of everywhere on earth except Australia/New Zealand.

(Due btw to the immigration of millions over 150+ years)

blu_sonic · 24-03-2006 02:03PM

is it the gov that ghettoises (spelling) these people or do they choose to live in areas with their fellow country folk. i know in London in the 50's the Irish choose to live together as it gave them a sence of community, it IMO makes it hard for the people to intergrate into the larger society.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 24-03-2006 02:07PM

Gurgle wrote:

Lets be a little more accurate here:
There are houses being built on every green patch within 10 miles of a Dublin suburb.
Not the same thing at all.
Most of the country is still drastically underpopulated by the standards of everywhere on earth except Australia/New Zealand.

(Due btw to the immigration of millions over 150+ years)

antartica is fairly unpopulated aswell!

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 24-03-2006 02:09PM

blu_sonic wrote:

is it the gov that ghettoises (spelling) these people or do they choose to live in areas with their fellow country folk. i know in London in the 50's the Irish choose to live together as it gave them a sence of community, it IMO makes it hard for the people to intergrate into the larger society.

from what i've read the gov has a policy of trying to prevent ghettos in an attempt to stop same-race crimes. thus, they stopped a china town being created because it would give an opening to triads.

not sure how successful they have been though, espec if you look at the moore street, parnell street areas

blu_sonic · 24-03-2006 02:14PM

Roundtower2 wrote:

from what i've read the gov has a policy of trying to prevent ghettos in an attempt to stop same-race crimes. thus, they stopped a china town being created because it would give an opening to triads.

not sure how successful they have been though, espec if you look at the moore street, parnell street areas

thats exactly what i mean, if these people are intergated into the mass public then i've no problem i think its ghetto lifestyles that cause the problems. ie we distrust "them" as we can't relate to "them", the chances organised crime is wider (look at the triads in london)(look at the mafia in new york).

24-03-2006 02:19PM

Firespinner wrote:

Thats unfair. I say statistics a while ago that said that crime by poles is lower per capita than the Irish. (but i think latvians are higher).

How is what I said unfair? I didn't target any specific grouping of immigrants as having that element of crime.

But it will happen that some people will come to Ireland with established links to crime, or won't find success here and turn to crime. Thats human nature. We've already seen it from the refugees from African countries. Most of them seek jobs, and live their lives by the law, however, there are some that have turned to drug dealing and other forms of crime to suplement their incomes.

I'm sure some irish people have done the same when they emmigrated to England in the 60's/70's or in the US nowadays. I just see it as being a normal part of any immigration from any country.

Lux23 · 24-03-2006 02:32PM

Immigration has been a positive experience for Ireland economically, in fact it is one of the main reasons that our economy keeps growing at such a fantastic rate. Why is this? Because what is keeping this country booming is consumer spending and the more people we have here the more spending there is. But the government really has to get going on better transport, hospitals and housing or there will be an awful lot of people left behind.

Beer is Life · 24-03-2006 03:51PM

Personally, I can't understand why the government wants to rely on immigrants to sustain this economic growth. Why not make it easier on Irish parents (financially etc) and encourage them to have more kids?

the Guru · 24-03-2006 03:56PM

I think its a great thing, those eastern european girls are really easy on the eye, think of your children as least they will have good looking partners, not some beefy bitch from mullingar :-)

Feenikusu · 24-03-2006 04:24PM

I want to move to Ireland after university, because here in Germany it's more or less impossible to get a job...so maybe I will be one of those many imigrants, but now that gnaws at my conscience...Oo
I think it can be very interesting to have multicultural people, I would be very happy if we had some other cultures beside turkish, but that can also become very annoying.

Gurgle · 24-03-2006 04:56PM

Feenikusu wrote:

I want to move to Ireland after university

If you're studying civil engineering or biotechnology, you'll be fine.
If its IT, you'll be dumped into a call centre by the first recruitment agent that gets his hands on you.

btw, plenty of Irish engineers are working in Germany. Theres a reason for that.

ferdi · 24-03-2006 05:06PM

ireland does not have the infestructure or maturity to accept this many newcomers.

why do people use the 'the irish were once the immigrants' argument? it does not fit this scenario at all/

irish went chiefly to america, uk, australia, canada....huge countries with large populations...ireland is neither of these things....stop using this stupid, out of context argument.

i am the offspring of irish+migant so dont get me wrong - i am the multicultural society people are looking for but...letting large volumes of people in willy nilly with no real preperation, safe-guards or control is asking for trouble and you'd want to be a damn fool not to see that.

SpAcEd OuT · 24-03-2006 05:40PM

Roundtower2 wrote:

Perhaps, we can all celebrate Polish Day (is there one?), Chinese New Year etc in an attempt to get to know our new inhabitants?

Any excuse for a day off work

ninebeanrows · 24-03-2006 06:05PM

I definately think there should be a cap on Immigrants coming into the country,
a cap changeable annuallyu by the government to meet demands.

Its not like the immigrants will say feck it were not going cause they dont allow
us all go. They will be equally as interested in coming to the country.

IMO i have no problem with a certain amount of Immigrants in our country but
i will not look forward to the time when 25% or more of our countries population
is made up by immmigrants;)

Pherekydes · 24-03-2006 06:30PM

Roundtower2 wrote:

First off, glad to have Irish people with your level of grammer and spelling on boards

Pherekydes · 24-03-2006 06:31PM

Weathercheck wrote:

... our countries population...

Come on! We only have one country!

26-03-2006 02:39AM

ferdi wrote:

ireland does not have the infestructure or maturity to accept this many newcomers.

Infrastructure. Things are improving (lol. at least while the EU money was coming in), and the influx of immigrants may finally get our government to get off its collective asses. Lord knows, they haven't done it for us. A bit of pressure may push them through. Personally I think its well worth the risk, considering the benefits.

Maturity. Whats that got to do with anything? They're here in the country now. People will get used to it quite easily I think. The smoking ban has been accepted by most people, and that was probably more a shock to the general population than this will be.

why do people use the 'the irish were once the immigrants' argument? it does not fit this scenario at all/

Agreed. Times were VERY different then. We have a very different culture, and peoples perception of the world has changed since then mostly due to mass media, and the Internet.

i am the offspring of irish+migant so dont get me wrong - i am the multicultural society people are looking for but...letting large volumes of people in willy nilly with no real preperation, safe-guards or control is asking for trouble and you'd want to be a damn fool not to see that.

I can see that there will be problems. Thats a given. However the alternative is much worse. Irelands population is still too small. The Irish people (mass generalisation) are getting lazy, snobbish, and actually quite ignorant. We joined the EU when we could get the benefits. It was a great concept this whole thing of joining europe (and gaining loads of benefits), but now that europe wants to join us, you want to shy away?

When would it be ok for these people to join us? 5 years time, 10 years? Our governments rarely do anything productive as it is. 5 years from now, I could possibly believe that we might have 1 or 2 little motorways, a few toll brides in Dublin, and not much else. With the influx of immigrants, the government will HAVE to do more. The option to ignore the problems in the country by asking for more surveys (which would be completed in 2 years time), a few tribunals (3-4 years time), or some other delaying tactic, would be takena way from them. At least I hope so.

Nah. I'll welcome these immigrants to Ireland with open arms.

IDMUD · 26-03-2006 04:30AM

Should have stayed out of the EU if you didn't want immigration from other EU countries

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 04:36AM

i don't see the problem there's a whole country outside dublin im sure we can accomate them. there are plenty of good reasons why we should welcome them, irish emmigration to the states and the uk, in most case not due to war or famine (i know the potatoe blight) but for financial gain ie the 80's, these people comming in are exactly the same. More power to the trying to better their standard of living just like we did.

Gurgle · 26-03-2006 01:10PM

IDMUD wrote:

Should have stayed out of the EU if you didn't want immigration from other EU countries

Yeah, and we should have kept being the immigrants. Its much easier morally to be the oppressed than the oppressor.

daveirl · 26-03-2006 01:33PM

This post has been deleted.

elvis2002 · 26-03-2006 02:30PM

Gurgle wrote:

If you're studying civil engineering or biotechnology, you'll be fine.
If its IT, you'll be dumped into a call centre by the first recruitment agent that gets his hands on you.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

johny28 · 26-03-2006 03:21PM

Delboy05 wrote:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1585137&issue_id=13831

25% of our population to be immigrants by 2020...scary. In 25 years it will have gone from about 5% to 20% - the govt have lost control in my opinion.
Germany brought in turks after the war as they needed workers...but immigrants dint go home en masse after a few years when the work drys up. They put down roots, have families (usually larger than the indigenous population). So now that Germany has 10% or so unemployment and has been in a slump for the last 10 years , they have 3m turks alone, or so that cause a lot of resentment amongst the native german workforce, especially in the areas of low paid employment.

I just cannot see why the govt. here is so hell bent on risking the long term future,shape and culture of our country for the sake of 10 odd years of above average economic growth.......Have we being asked if we want this continued unlimited immigration to continue???? Has anyone looked at the long term ramifications (see riots in France, murder of film makers in holland, riots in the Uk, suicide bombings in the UK/Spain).....

Just before I answer the delboy I want to clarify something before the Celtic Tiger there were 1% of non Irish born in this country and now there is about 7% now I don't think this is the cause of the high prices of houses .and from now till 2020 or 2025 I think there will be alot of other changes..
Delboy the following is addressed to you mate:
It is not the government! it is The Irish people asked for more immigrants by letting the other eastern European countries to join EU like Poland I believe this was two years ago..
and those you Turks in Germany that you talk about they are German now after all these years the same as the Irish in America and in UK so is it justified when unemployment goes up in USA to say its because they were letting the Irish in some years and years ago ?

I do believe this kind of attitude is a major cause of social disharmony

and most of the immigrants are legal in this country and most of them are from Europe they come and go.(BTW:they do the jobs that an Irish person would not go for it).and this is the nature of todays Europe
if you are not happy with our EU you can immigrate to USA or perhaps Australia mate.

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 03:40PM

johny28 wrote:

and most of the immigrants are legal in this country and most of them are from Europe they come and go.(BTW:they do the jobs that an Irish person would not go for it).and this is the nature of todays Europe
if you are not happy with our EU you can immigrate to USA or perhaps Australia mate

agreed they (like we used to when we were immigrants) do jobs that we now shun and frown upon

loveducati · 26-03-2006 05:06PM

the Guru wrote:

I think its a great thing, those eastern european girls are really easy on the eye, think of your children as least they will have good looking partners, not some beefy bitch from mullingar :-)

ha ha LOL, great line and nobody abused you for it

Delboy05 · 26-03-2006 05:36PM

johny28 wrote:

Just before I answer the delboy I want to clarify something before the Celtic Tiger there were 1% of non Irish born in this country and now there is about 7% now I don't think this is the cause of the high prices of houses .and from now till 2020 or 2025 I think there will be alot of other changes..
Delboy the following is addressed to you mate:
It is not the government! it is The Irish people asked for more immigrants by letting the other eastern European countries to join EU like Poland I believe this was two years ago..
and those you Turks in Germany that you talk about they are German now after all these years the same as the Irish in America and in UK so is it justified when unemployment goes up in USA to say its because they were letting the Irish in some years and years ago ?

I do believe this kind of attitude is a major cause of social disharmony

and most of the immigrants are legal in this country and most of them are from Europe they come and go.(BTW:they do the jobs that an Irish person would not go for it).and this is the nature of todays Europe
if you are not happy with our EU you can immigrate to USA or perhaps Australia mate.

The irish people never said yes to more immigrants....they said yes to allowing 10 coutnries join the EU....the 2nd time round. the 1st time they said No, but that was ignored (ask the govt about that!!!!).In a recent poll 78% of irish people said they wanted less immigration to ireland....will that be listened to???? I doubt it. So should all 78% of those irish who want immigration curtailed immigrate to the 'usa or perhaps Australia'...MATE.

I never said most of the immigrants in this country were'nt legal....thats a non-argument. Cant see your point.

the USA has 280m people, Ireland has 4.2m. How can you possible compare the irish emmigrating to the US with 150,000 or so eastern europeans coming into ireland in 12 months. It's is crazy to compare the 2. We are a small island, they are a continent.

All i'm saying is we should maybe concentrate on slower growth, allow our infrastructure to catch up, housing to cool down and thus we'll need less immigrants. Too many immigrants will lead to problems in the future...we'd be the first country in the world to not to have problems if all goes hunky dory and i think we all know how good our govt are at getting things right here...

Victor · 26-03-2006 11:19PM

Delboy05 wrote:

25% of our population to be immigrants by 2020...scary. In 25 years it will have gone from about 5% to 20% - the govt have lost control in my opinion.

1 in 5 is 20% - maybe we should add some maths teachers to the list of highly desired immigrants

Germany brought in turks after the war as they needed workers

And Greek and Italians and .... maybe add some history and economics teachers.

...but immigrants dont go home en masse after a few years when the work drys up. They put down roots, have families (usually larger than the indigenous population). So now that Germany has 10% or so unemployment and has been in a slump for the last 10 years , they have 3m turks alone, or so that cause a lot of resentment amongst the native german workforce, especially in the areas of low paid employment.

Oddly those Turks some being third and fourth generation Germans have been in the Bundes Republik Deustschland longer than the unemployed former-East Germans where the bulk of the unemployment is.

Add some geography teachers.

Delboy05 · 27-03-2006 12:29AM

Victor wrote:

Oddly those Turks some being third and fourth generation Germans have been in the Bundes Republik Deustschland longer than the unemployed former-East Germans where the bulk of the unemployment is

maybe ask the germans on who they'd rather...the east germans who were articificially seperated by the allies after the war...or the turks who 3rd/4th generation (take your pick) have not assimilated into the german way of life which has led to resentment.

yes, my maths were wrong....very sorry about that. 20% is correct.typo.
But glad to read your positive and informative views on this topic...please, keep them coming:rolleyes:

Irish population to grow by a 3rd, immigrants could make up 1 in 5 by 2020

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