Do you care about the North

county · 22-03-2006 11:43AM

mise_me_fein_V2 wrote:

It's just ignorance. It would be like people in West Germany saying that they wouldn't want to reunite with the East 15 years ago.

Sure, it might have caused some problems but overall the people would have been happy about it.

you cant compare germany to the northern ireland situation in all fairness

fly_agaric · 22-03-2006 11:50AM

mise_me_fein_V2 wrote:

It's just ignorance. It would be like people in West Germany saying that they wouldn't want to reunite with the East 15 years ago.

No, you are being ignorant. It is not comparable at all. The Russians only had E. Germany for a half-century. they didn't colonise it - merely imposed their crazy communist economic system and tried to push their language on the E. Germans. That reunification has not exactly been problem-free either.

The British have had NI for (AFAICR) > 300 years! They have settled a shedload of people there whose descendants want no truck whatsoever with your glorious unification idea and if put to it I'm certain some of said descendants will bomb and kill to ensure that it never happens.

ivan087 · 22-03-2006 11:51AM

mise_me_fein_V2 wrote:

It's just ignorance. It would be like people in West Germany saying that they wouldn't want to reunite with the East 15 years ago.

Sure, it might have caused some problems but overall the people would have been happy about it.

is that your argument? totally different scenario mate. if the brits were commys, and there was a majority in the east who didnt want to reunite, and if there were 2 cultures in the east, then maybe you could make a comparison. oh and maybe another world war...

Flex · 22-03-2006 11:55AM

Yes of course I care about the north, the people up there are Irish and are citizens of this country. I care about the north in the same way I would about the Irish in Munster ,for example, if French people moved there, formed a majority in part of the provence and demanded political seperation from the rest of Ireland. Personally I no longer think a united Ireland is the solution, repartition would be best; the 4 nationalist counties for us, Antrim and Down left to their faith, or something like that.

Sleepy · 22-03-2006 11:58AM

Saintly wrote:

Many Southerners haven't visited the 6 counties

I've been in Belfast a number of times.

and many more fail to understand the political and cultural context in which the conflicts and tensions have occured.

Nope, think I've a good handle on it.

Nationalists up North often feel abandoned by the South and I can understand why.

They were abandoned by the Republic the day the border committees were disolved

They *are* Irish

In your opinion. In mine, and the majority of the citizens of Northern Ireland's opinion, they are British.

and comments like 'just cut the North away' and the like, show just how little their fellow countrymen understand their situation.

Again, those of us in the Republic of Ireland are not the 'fellow countrymen' of the northerners, we live in seperate countries (whether this is what you'd like it to be or not, it is the status quo). The comments of 'just cut the North away' I sympathise with and understand. When one's government spends more time being concerned with the future of another country than the running of it's own, people tend to get frustrated with it.

I spent many summers up North and have friends on both sides of the 'divide'. It's not until you hear a Nationalist (and I'm not talking about a gun-toting fanatic here - just a 28 year normal girl) talking about what it was like to lose a family member to murder by a member of the armed forces, to have that member protected by the security services that are supposed to protect you etc etc. That's one of the more dramatic stories but there are many more of subtle intimidation, of feelings of isolation and of being under siege. It's a lifetime away from what happened down here and it's only been a few years since the GFA, of course distrust lingers.

And in a large way, it's that unfortunate history that has helped further divide the communities and cultures of Northern and Southern Ireland.

We all know there's two sides to this story, I'm not waving any flag here. I just think that it's weird that so many people down South have such little knowledge or interest in the Nationalist cause, particularly as relatively few years have passed since partition? Is it just a case of same old story?

Saintly

I think it's precisely because successive Irish governments have wasted so much time interfering in the rule of a British country instead of trying to provide their own people with a decent health service, education system, law and order or national infrastructure that most of us in the Republic couldn't give a monkeys tbh.

Personally? I reckon all those that want to be Irish should move to the Republic, all those that want to be British should move to England, Scotland or Wales and the vast majority (>90%?) that are happy just to be Northern Irish and get on with their lives should be left in peace to form their own independent country with the benefit of EU membership and funding to cushion the economic blow of the severance of British monetary input.

fly_agaric · 22-03-2006 12:04PM

mise_me_fein_V2 wrote:

We've lost of our culture and language because of the way the British culture has been pushed on us and the way the English language has been adopted all over the world.

We probably need to get the control of the 6 counties back if we wanna get it back.

How the féck is a united Ireland going to help resurrect the zombie that is Irish?:rolleyes:

The only things that can do that now are brutal measures - e.g. a radical education policy (a phased conversion of schools to Irish medium only) + basically the government forcing people to use the language in their day to day lives (compulsory Irish classes, government documents issued in Irish only etc, etc).

Most people in the South would be up-in-arms if such policies were brought in. How do you think the Unionists would like Irish rammed down their gullets in that way in a UI?

mise_me_fein_V2 · 22-03-2006 12:39PM

fly_agaric wrote:

No, you are being ignorant. It is not comparable at all. The Russians only had E. Germany for a half-century. they didn't colonise it - merely imposed their crazy communist economic system and tried to push their language on the E. Germans. That reunification has not exactly been problem-free either.

The British have had NI for (AFAICR) > 300 years! They have settled a shedload of people there whose descendants want no truck whatsoever with your glorious unification idea and if put to it I'm certain some of said descendants will bomb and kill to ensure that it never happens.

Ya know that they planted "a shedload" of people down here too and they integrated - check it out we all have some English blood in us.

The British have had NI for less than a century - it hasn't exited for 100 years yet.

You're attitude is well I'm not in a British controlled state so I don't give a fcuk about anyone up north who is and who doesn't want to be.

Fact is most people on the island would like to have a united Ireland.
Tough for the unionists, that's the attitude that they gave the nationalists up north for the last 80 or so years.

smemon · 22-03-2006 12:44PM

Do you care about the north?

no. couldnt give a toss about it. it's so 1916.

Dilly1 · 22-03-2006 12:56PM

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, many unionists up north think we are out to get them so an honest question. Do you care about the north?

Personally I dont and would like to float it into the Atlantic and leave it there. Those ppl will never change:mad:

Can't say I care, one thing I have noticed though, the Loyalists and Republicans have so much in common they should actually be friends.

fly_agaric · 22-03-2006 12:58PM

mise_me_fein_V2 wrote:

The British have had NI for less than a century - it hasn't exited for 100 years yet.

I am no history buff but the date I was thinking of was the start of the plantations i.e. when the Crown really started trying to get a grip on the place - not whan the border was drawn and the political entity that is NI was created.

el tel · 22-03-2006 01:15PM

ivan087 wrote:

it dosnt matter how many catholics there are. the majority of catholics dont want a united ireland. they are irish, vote SF/SDLP, but are wise enough to not want a united ireland.

^^^Some daft stuff being said here but this whopper takes the prize^^^

22-03-2006 01:17PM

The north has serious image problem.

Petition to rename Northern Ireland -> Orange County.

Signed

Ronoc

22-03-2006 01:19PM

el tel wrote:

^^^Some daft stuff being said here but this whopper takes the prize^^^

Aye tis rubbish
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html

mountainyman · 22-03-2006 01:29PM

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, many unionists up north think we are out to get them so an honest question. Do you care about the north?

Personally I dont and would like to float it into the Atlantic and leave it there. Those ppl will never change:mad:

It has some of the nicest bits of Ireland in it. Yeah I'd like it back. With or without 'consent'.

Most people who don't care about the north don't care about anything politically and are the sort of smug consumerist swine I would happily gas:) Football computers cars tits YAY I'M A ****ING SHEEP;)

This is not aimed at the OP or anyone else whose posted.

MM

ivan087 · 22-03-2006 01:32PM

el tel wrote:

^^^Some daft stuff being said here but this whopper takes the prize^^^

im sticking to fact mate, of all the polls taken by legitimate pollsters, it has always come to that conclusion. it may not be what you want to hear but its true.

elurhs · 22-03-2006 01:32PM

Do I care about NI? Yes, I suppose I do. Is it high on my list of priorities? No.

What the majority of people in the south care about is the economy, employment, taxes, health care, crime, transport, etc. All the things that affect their daily lives. For most people, the North is not high up on the list. I think most people realise the problems that reunification would bring, and are thoroughly sick of the unwillingness of Northern politicians to budge on issues. As someone pointed out, the daily goings-on up there are totally different to down here, so from that point of view it is definitely a different country.

It was interesting that a survey taken ten years after German reunification showed that a sizeable amount of West Germans wished unification hadn't taken place, such was the effect of having to subsidise a much weaker economy. The German economy is stil feeling the effects today.

The task facing the government in the south would be immense should reunification occur. The health system, education system, the whole social welfare system up north would have to be changed, which would inevitably suck money from the south. I would be surprised if paramilitary action from loyalist extremists didn't occur. Personally, I would be opposed to reunification, purely from a selfish point-of-view.

mountainyman · 22-03-2006 01:33PM

murphaph wrote:

Yawn. Here's a tip-if you don't want to be insulted, don't read boards, especially AH!

I thought personal abuse wasn't allowed?

Does the north want to be united with us.

What is so good about the republic?
MM

mountainyman · 22-03-2006 01:34PM

WhiteWashMan wrote:

some people just are not interested.
get over it.

Kill them.

It doesn't affect you you live in England.
MM

ivan087 · 22-03-2006 01:35PM

ronoc wrote:

Aye tis rubbish
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html

even your own survey you pick out - only 47% of catholics want a reunited ireland!! so im talking crap am i. thats less then half of catholics wanting a united ireland!

zuma · 22-03-2006 01:42PM

ronoc wrote:

The north has serious image problem.

Petition to rename Northern Ireland -> Orange County.

Signed

Ronoc

Signed

zuma

22-03-2006 01:44PM

ivan087 wrote:

even your own survey you pick out - only 47% of catholics want a reunited ireland!! so im talking crap am i. thats less then half of catholics wanting a united ireland!

Either you don't understand statistics or you are trolling.

To clarify to you: 47% in favour is not the same as 53% against. This poll also represents a low showing for "in favour vote" compared to other polls.

hottstuff · 22-03-2006 01:47PM

do i care about the north - YES
do i care about its people - NO

ivan087 · 22-03-2006 01:54PM

ronoc wrote:

Either you don't understand statistics or you are trolling.

To clarify to you: 47% in favour is not the same as 53% against. This poll also represents a low showing for "in favour vote" compared to other polls.

I understand perfectly well - only 47% of catholics would vote for a united ireland. im not trying to twist it, im arguing what is written in your poll. all these polls seem to float around the 50% mark, so lets not get bogged down with figures, about half would vote for a united ireland, and only 5% of prodestants would. thats going to be a low result for a yes to a united ireland. and thats not taking into account of a seperate southern poll which, in my opinion, would also have a majority against a united ireland. at the end of the day it comes down to money. i would rather money, jobs, security, etc then those 6 counties.

22-03-2006 01:59PM

ivan087 wrote:

I understand perfectly well - only 47% of catholics would vote for a united ireland. im not trying to twist it, im arguing what is written in your poll. all these polls seem to float around the 50% mark, so lets not get bogged down with figures, about half would vote for a united ireland, and only 5% of prodestants would. thats going to be a low result for a yes to a united ireland. and thats not taking into account of a seperate southern poll which, in my opinion, would also have a majority against a united ireland. at the end of the day it comes down to money. i would rather money, jobs, security, etc then those 6 counties.

ivan087 wrote:

it dosnt matter how many catholics there are. the majority of catholics dont want a united ireland. they are irish, vote SF/SDLP, but are wise enough to not want a united ireland.

I'm quoting this again because you still seem to be confusing your figures.

mise_me_fein_V2 · 22-03-2006 02:41PM

fly_agaric wrote:

I am no history buff but the date I was thinking of was the start of the plantations i.e. when the Crown really started trying to get a grip on the place - not whan the border was drawn and the political entity that is NI was created.

Have you heard that their were other plantations in the south before this plantation? There was no Northern Ireland until the border. It was just that these settlers didn't mix in.

So what if a certain poll says that a certain % of Catholics want a united Ireland. If you took the same poll in 1970, I'm sure it would be very different and I'm sure it will be different in another 30 years. By the way, does that also mean that only 47% of Catholics in the north have Irish passports?

The fact is that there is something going to happen. Sure the unionist might keep some of their links to the UK, but the links with the 26 counties will grow and grow and just like De Valera slowly took the Irish Free State from a dominion to an independent state, I believe that the North will slowly move towards some sort of alignment with the free state.

Whether some of you care or not

gurramok · 22-03-2006 02:50PM

ivan087 wrote:

I understand perfectly well - only 47% of catholics would vote for a united ireland. im not trying to twist it, im arguing what is written in your poll. all these polls seem to float around the 50% mark, so lets not get bogged down with figures, about half would vote for a united ireland, and only 5% of prodestants would. thats going to be a low result for a yes to a united ireland. and thats not taking into account of a seperate southern poll which, in my opinion, would also have a majority against a united ireland. at the end of the day it comes down to money. i would rather money, jobs, security, etc then those 6 counties.

Here we go again, quoting polls which mean jack sh1t up there as its very hard to get a across the board survey due to tribal divisions.
The real poll which gives a proper indication is the election poll where 45% electorate vote for united ireland parties like SDLP/SF and growing at a slow pace.
How would you react if a majority wished to join us in ROI ?..Would you tell them to feck off coz 'I don't care' !

ivan087 · 22-03-2006 02:58PM

gurramok wrote:

Here we go again, quoting polls which mean jack sh1t up there as its very hard to get a across the board survey due to tribal divisions.
The real poll which gives a proper indication is the election poll where 45% electorate vote for united ireland parties like SDLP/SF and growing at a slow pace.
How would you react if a majority wished to join us in ROI ?..Would you tell them to feck off coz 'I don't care' !

many vote for SF/SDLP because they are good politicians and in certain areas they will represent them better then a unionist who they fear might concentrate on certain areas. therefore most catholics, even if they are pro-union will vote that way. also many unionists will vote for the SDLP as a second preference, because the party is less focused on a united ireland (many nationalists complain that SDLP dont care about achieving a united ireland).
i dont know how id react. id probably sell up and leave the country. do you think this country would cope well with reunification? you know it wouldnt. i care about the north and i care about the south, so much that i dont want the damage a unified ireland would cause to both sides of the border.

Slutmonkey57b · 22-03-2006 02:59PM

gurramok wrote:

How would you react if a majority wished to join us in ROI ?..Would you tell them to feck off coz 'I don't care' !

Yes. Actually I'd call them argumentative scum at the same time.

mise_me_fein_V2 · 22-03-2006 05:03PM

You'd be a fcukin tit then.

Oriel · 22-03-2006 05:20PM

[playing devils advocate]

Look, you fcuking paddy bastards fought to try to win Northern Ireland from the English, then when the English kicked your pathetic little asses, now you say you didn't want it all along? Hahaha. Morons.

[/playing devils advocate]

Do you care about the North

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