Do you care about the North

Mr.Nice Guy · 18-03-2006 07:58PM

murphaph wrote:

I guess I just dislike nationalism really, any flavour of it. I believe it is a tool used by the rich and powerful to control people dumb enough to be suckered into believing in it (similar to how religion has been/is used to do the same). We're world citizens before we're anything.

Fair enough. I can understand and respect that view. It's just I dislike it when people say things like 'cut it off and let it float away' etc. I think even you will acknowledge that historically Ulster is a very relevant part of Irishness.

Anyway, off topic again it's looking very close in the rugby!

Terry · 18-03-2006 07:59PM

31 county Ireland?
throw all the bigots into 1 county and let them kill each other. when they have all died, then we'll take that last county.

murphaph · 18-03-2006 08:26PM

OT, Ireland win a memorable victory at Twickenham, "you can shove your fcukin chariot up your arse, you can shove your fcukin chariot up your arse, you can shove your fcukin chariot, shove your fcukin chariot, you can shove your fcukin chariot up your arse!" (works best in an aussie accent for some reason)

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 18-03-2006 08:26PM

Sure, I care in so much that it'd be nice to see everyone getting along.
But I've no interest in what extremist bigots on either side have to say... the phrase "political points scoring" really sums it up for me.
The issues are so clouded in waffle, shít-stirring retorts and rhetoric that I just can't keep up. :rolleyes:

Dave! · 18-03-2006 08:40PM

murphaph wrote:

Re-read your post that I was yawning at. Nothing political in there, you just said you cared about Northern Ireland in one line and then went on to verbally assault the OP in a paragraph! If you're gonna get political, get political, don't just post about how insulted you feel (boo-hoo) and then make like it's serious political debate :rolleyes:

Don't get into it mate, unless you've got a dictionary on hand... You'll be hours arguing with him about whether it's pronounced potaytoh or potahhtoh!

WhiteWashMan · 18-03-2006 08:43PM

netwhizkid wrote:

I will never recognise Northern Ireland. There is no Northern Ireland only a part of our god given Territory that is occupied by a Foreign Aggressor. The North belongs to Ireland and nothing will ever change that. Simple Fact, The Unionists can integrate into Ireland32 or go back to their Scottish Ancestral roots in Scotland. Any sort of a bigot that makes noise about a Tri-Colour at a St. Patrick's Day Parade in Belfast isn't welcome in Ireland as far as I am concerned. Did you see such comments anywhere else in the World yesterday, The Tricolour was flown everywhere from Jerusalem to Hong Kong and Beyond and I heard no one complaining. I also heard nobody complaining when the USA Flag was flown in the Parades up & down the Island yesterday or when the Bangladeshi community participated in the Killarney Parade too. I would mind floating off the Orange Order & the Minority of Unionist Bigots though alright, or having them towed to Tierra del fuego and left there. The only other that made noise were Fox News in the USA, They ran a story called Erin Go Home? Obviously biased against the legalize the Irish campaign over there. Fair and Unbiased yeah sure thing :mad:

by the way, just to inform you, that your views are bigotted.
for someone that calls everyone else a bigot, id be fery careful.

with regards the north, forget that, how about we hand ireland back the english and tell them were sorry for fúcking up their country?

WhiteWashMan · 18-03-2006 08:45PM

murphaph wrote:

OT, Ireland win a memorable victory at Twickenham, "you can shove your fcukin chariot up your arse, you can shove your fcukin chariot up your arse, you can shove your fcukin chariot, shove your fcukin chariot, you can shove your fcukin chariot up your arse!" (works best in an aussie accent for some reason)

banned. if you want to start being abusive and insulting, then do it somewhere else

oblian · 18-03-2006 08:59PM

i used to be exactly like some of the lads here with the "wouldnt care if it floated out to sea" mentality.

havin said that it was when i was like 12

i have been comin up north for the last 4 years now(three in relationship and now in uni in derry) and tbh its fuc*in depressin havin to use sterling here.also people seem to think most people up north are all prods and loyal to the crown etc and it couldnt be further from the truth.most people here(derry) are catholics and alot in tyrone and belfast too that i met.i have never gotten any hassle bout bein from the republic and the way of life here is far less stressful then the one in Dublin.basically this province is occupied and yet retains far more of its cultural identity in Irish roots then the republic does now

i mean even goin to bus aras now,up till awhile ago the signs were in Irish and english now they english and fuc*in POLISH!!!!

so to answer the op's question yeah i care alot actually.just my €0.02

nlgbbbblth · 18-03-2006 09:01PM

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

I think people are so tired of hearing about the North that they don't actually know very much about it. How many people do you know can name the political parties? Do you know the population? The unemployment levels, or how they've changed in the last few years?

Do you really know anything about collusion, undercover agents, the peace process, devolution?

All of the above have been given extensive coverage in the media for many years.

If people are too stupid, ignorant or braindead not to be aware of these issues [possibly because they're too busy reading red-top tabloids] then that's their problem.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-03-2006 09:01PM

netwhizkid wrote:

Please try tell this to Israeli Jews, God's Chose People and the Promised Land.

</controversy>

OT Have a read of the book or look at http://www.thebricktestament.com/ The "promised" land was already populated so they depopulated it / enslaved . One could argue the same thing happened in South Africa or in Northern Ireland or Oz / America.
Should people have rights to ancestral land ?
How should we balance their rights to those who occupy it now / those they originally displaced ? ( even in Iceland the Norse/Viking settlers probably killed off Irish Monks )

The big problem is that farmers breed, whereas hunter/gatherers don't have such large population increases. You could argue that the land grab for farming in the pre-industrial era is responsible for a lot of stuff.

Anyway my 2c - in a 32 county the unionists could have the balance of power, as they could be seen as more politically acceptable to capitalists etc. than SF.

WhiteWashMan · 18-03-2006 09:10PM

nlgbbbblth wrote:

All of the above have been given extensive coverage in the media for many years.

If people are too stupid, ignorant or braindead not to be aware of these issues [possibly because they're too busy reading red-top tabloids] then that's their problem.

some people just are not interested.
get over it.

darkman2 · 18-03-2006 10:38PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Yes I care about it as it is part of my nation.

I don't care much for these Irish people who who have no understanding or appreciation for the massive contribution Ulster has given to Irishness. Irishness isn't Irishness without any of the four provinces so I find views expressed by the OP not only insulting, but disappointing and embarrassing.

Shame on him and people of his ilk.

Plenty of Irish ppl have my opinion that we would be better off if the North didnt exist. Sry they had their chance when they were in the limelight for the GF agreement. If they want to act like petulant children then we cant help them. (their political leaders that is)

Saintly · 18-03-2006 11:06PM

Many Southerners haven't visited the 6 counties and many more fail to understand the political and cultural context in which the conflicts and tensions have occured. Nationalists up North often feel abandoned by the South and I can understand why. They *are* Irish and comments like 'just cut the North away' and the like, show just how little their fellow countrymen understand their situation.

I spent many summers up North and have friends on both sides of the 'divide'. It's not until you hear a Nationalist (and I'm not talking about a gun-toting fanatic here - just a 28 year normal girl) talking about what it was like to lose a family member to murder by a member of the armed forces, to have that member protected by the security services that are supposed to protect you etc etc. That's one of the more dramatic stories but there are many more of subtle intimidation, of feelings of isolation and of being under siege. It's a lifetime away from what happened down here and it's only been a few years since the GFA, of course distrust lingers.

We all know there's two sides to this story, I'm not waving any flag here. I just think that it's weird that so many people down South have such little knowledge or interest in the Nationalist cause, particularly as relatively few years have passed since partition? Is it just a case of same old story?

Saintly

county · 19-03-2006 01:06AM

darkman2 wrote:

They can keep it as far as im concerned, a mess they deliberately created giving in, in a cowardly fashion to unionist demands. The fact they are subsidised by the British up there means things could be sorted out brutally quickly if necassary. Such a pathetic little sectarian, bigoted hellhole that has no place in the modern world.

so where were you when irish sectarian bigots was rioting in dublin,the moon perhaps:rolleyes:

county · 19-03-2006 01:09AM

L31mr0d wrote:

I agree that if the people in the north wanted to be Irish, i'd have no problems with them becoming irish, and us getting the 6 counties back. Put it this way, if scotland replaced the north, we'd be getting on like a house on fire, we might still be seperate but we'd be working together. We could get the north back, but the animosity from years of hate and indifference would still be there, changing the name of it isn't going to wipe clean all of that. The problem isn't that England owns the 6 counties anymore, its the general consensus of the people that live there. I'm sure Tony would be more than happy to wash his hands of the whole fiasco, but its the northern people that don't want change. So like i said, if they changed their minds, i'd accept it.

Also, aren't we forgetting something, they might be english and we might be irish, but we're all Europeans, so borders shouldn't be an issue anymore. *something a kind polish guy i work with pointed out to me*

british is the word your looking for

Tar.Aldarion · 19-03-2006 01:31AM

I really couldn't care less.
I like to live my life without thinking of meaningless ****.

slipss · 19-03-2006 01:45AM

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, many unionists up north think we are out to get them so an honest question. Do you care about the north?

Personally I dont and would like to float it into the Atlantic and leave it there. Those ppl will never change:mad:

Do you care about wicklow, or beruit or ethiopia or crumilin or somalia or iraq or .......................................

L31mr0d · 19-03-2006 12:18PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

'Becoming' Irish? Do tell us, at what point in time did the Irish state acquire the right to ...

Ok let me clarify, i'm saying the people in the north don't WANT to be Irish, at least for the majority, they like that they are northern Irish, and that their loyalty lies with the United Kingdom, you don't see northerners marching on Belfast requesting for the ROI to get the counties back, and i am NOT talking about the Nationality of these people (i.e. whats written on their passport) i'm talking about their mindset. Their mindset is more ENGLISH than IRISH. This has nothing to do with the affect Belfast has had on Irish history, it has to do with whether we care about the North, and I am saying, I WOULD CARE about the NORTH if they decided that wanted to be loyal to the ROI rather than the UK.

fly_agaric · 19-03-2006 12:37PM

darkman2 wrote:

Do you care about the north?

No.

darkman2 wrote:

Personally I dont and would like to float it into the Atlantic and leave it there.

Good plan. I'd settle for politicians here starting a swear jar that they have to pay into every time they mention NI and the "sit-ye-ay-shun".

WhiteWashMan · 19-03-2006 02:20PM

slipss wrote:

Do you care about wicklow, ...

no

slipss wrote:

, or beruit ......

no

slipss wrote:

or ethiopia.....

no already

slipss wrote:

or crumilin ..........

still no im afraid

slipss wrote:

or somalia .....

nope

slipss wrote:

iraq ...........

no. no. no.

whats the point in asking these questions?

i really dont understand why people constantly need to throw their view onto other people. its like the stupid 'should the national anthem be sung in irish' thread.

not caring about the north does not mean you are not irish. it means you dont care about the north.
i dont give a crap about kerry either, just in case that was the next question.

i care about me. i think most people care about themselves. the north means nothing to me. i dont care about what happened a couple of cetries ago.
if people want to continue living in the past as i see it, then go team you!

personally, im all for moving on, and since for most of us, the north is not a situation that we live in. anyone who involves themselves in it with strong opinions and damning condemnations of anyone who does also believe in some cause or other, is just frankly rediculous.

i mean, at what point did ireland become 'ireland'? was it when it was created as a landmass? or was it after the 1916 rising?
or was it when there were 5 kings through the land? was ireland really ireland then, or just a series of small kingdoms that fought each other for land rights?

but hold what ever opinions you want. youre free to do it. and i will continue to think that anyone who rattles on about the north, english oppression and freedom fighters is an idiot. and i think im free to do that.

for me, my life is about looking forward, its about making sure that my family and i are well, fed, warm and educated. its about making sure my life is as good as it can be.
its not about living in the past becuase i cant get over some useless grudge, and the fact that some people in a part of the world that i dont care about cant seem to get their own shít sorted out.

ferdi · 19-03-2006 02:25PM

as far as i'm concerned they should all feck off. they are childish bigots who will never change. i hate the way the politics and media in my country is so dominated by these fools.

Slutmonkey57b · 21-03-2006 06:28PM

Absolutely - detatch it and float it off somewhere. Hold a referendum - anyone that cares about the outcome of Norn Ireland is given a choice to live there, everyone living there is given the choice to be relocated, and after we've moved everyone we fence the place off and leave them to their own devices. Can't happen soon enough

Slutmonkey57b · 21-03-2006 06:37PM

Saintly wrote:

Many Southerners haven't visited the 6 counties and many more fail to understand the political and cultural context in which the conflicts and tensions have occured. Nationalists up North often feel abandoned by the South and I can understand why. They *are* Irish and comments like 'just cut the North away' and the like, show just how little their fellow countrymen understand their situation.

1) I don't consider them my fellow countrymen.
2) If they want to be that Irish why not move house - lots of people do it without anguish and hand wringing and breast beating.
3) Why would anyone want to visit the 6 counties, given the display that the residents there put on on a regular basis? I also don't want to visit a chemical waste dump.

We all know there's two sides to this story, I'm not waving any flag here. I just think that it's weird that so many people down South have such little knowledge or interest in the Nationalist cause, particularly as relatively few years have passed since partition? Is it just a case of same old story?

We all know both sides of the divide in Norn Iron are equally bigoted and violent. I think it's weird that we should be expected to care one way or another when it is clear that the majority of the blame for the state of Norn Iron lies with the people themselves. It is a case of the same old story, and everyone outside the 6 counties is sick of it.

TerrorFirmer · 22-03-2006 10:21AM

In a word: No.

Dempsey · 22-03-2006 10:57AM

I want the 6 counties back, the bigots and the people that couldn't care less about anything except themselves can piss off.

mise_me_fein_V2 · 22-03-2006 11:10AM

I hope most of you people are just trying to wind up the people that do care about the North.

I care about it more than say Limerick, as it's close to me and I'd like to be able to act the same way in my country whether I travel 30 miles north, south, east(well I'd be swimming in the Irish sea so maybe not east) or west. The people are the same as me. I think you should take an interest in it. You know it;s gonna kick off again in maybe 50 years and I'd say it wont just be the 6 counties.

We've lost of our culture and language because of the way the British culture has been pushed on us and the way the English language has been adopted all over the world.

We probably need to get the control of the 6 counties back if we wanna get it back. The unionists need to see that integration isn't so bad.
Thy wont have any choice by 2050 I'd say, coz I think they'll be more Catholics than Protestants up north.

ivan087 · 22-03-2006 11:26AM

mise_me_fein_V2 wrote:

We probably need to get the control of the 6 counties back if we wanna get it back. The unionists need to see that integration isn't so bad.
Thy wont have any choice by 2050 I'd say, coz I think they'll be more Catholics than Protestants up north.

it dosnt matter how many catholics there are. the majority of catholics dont want a united ireland. they are irish, vote SF/SDLP, but are wise enough to not want a united ireland.

i think its time nationlists took time out to think about what a united ireland would mean for the south. britain can hardly aford it, so how could we? if we're prepared to have high unemployment, massif tax rises to pay security, infastructure, and the 40% of people in the north who work in the public sector, then so be it. me as well as most people on this island are happy with the way things are. peace and closer cooperation is a must. reunitication - no thanks. time to let the nationalist wet dream die and worry about real issues that effect us - health, jobs, education, etc.

Oriel · 22-03-2006 11:29AM

I'm from Antrim and I find it sad to see the replies from Pythia etc.
We are all Ireland. You should love the counties up here just as much as the ones in the south.
Fair enough, they might have England as a step dad, but they're your children all the same.

mise_me_fein_V2 · 22-03-2006 11:40AM

It's just ignorance. It would be like people in West Germany saying that they wouldn't want to reunite with the East 15 years ago.

Sure, it might have caused some problems but overall the people would have been happy about it.

super_furry · 22-03-2006 11:42AM

Couldn't care less - aside from the cheap booze in Newry. As far as I see it, they're both as bad as each other up there - most of them off their head crazy.

Do you care about the North

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