Reason why so called Thugs rioted on Oconnel Streets

Degsy · 09-03-2006 06:25PM

They arent fit to be parents,thier kids are going to grow up the same only worse.Christ knows what they feed to the kids so they have money to buy drugs.I was on the bus the other day and a scumbag with akid about 5 gets on and sits behind me with some other bloke.For the wholre journey all they talked about was getting methadone "phy" they call it.One of the blokes then expressed outrage that his little sister has to travel a long way to get her phy coz the Prick of a doctor wont give it to her.His little sister..he wasnt outraged that she was a heroin raddled junkie but that the doctor wouldnt give her free heroin and she had to travel for it!!!Its like being in a club for these people,going to the doctor,scoring drugs and talking about it in front of thier children.How often can a working man afford to go the doctor:?

nlgbbbblth · 09-03-2006 11:49PM

The OP wrote:

The so-called "Lower Class" are the biggest bunch of hypocrites IMO when it comes to the situation in the North - they riot, they curse the "English bastards", etc - yet they do all this while wearing English football jerseys - Liverpool, Man U, etc...

the c*nts also read English tabloids too.

While simultaneously complaining about the arrogant English media and their hyping up of the national team's chances in the World Cup.

A wider question arises - why do Irish people buy English tabloids. Anyone who actually believes that the version we get here is "(O)Irish" deserves to be glassed.

Dilly1 · 10-03-2006 12:48PM

fischerspooner wrote:

I work in an inner city area constantly surrounded by local young mothers with their young kids. The way they talk to their kids, beat them about the place, smoke/drink in front of them, hurl racist abuse at the asian folk in the shops, smoking joints in front of them, bringing their kids to methadone clinics etc... it's no surprise these kids grow up the way they are. These are not a few bad seeds, I see this EVERY DAY from many different people. They are not fit to raise children, and this standard of child rearing seems to be the norm in the inner city. I see it all the time. Men beating their girlfriends about on the street is also a common thing around here. A woman kicked her buggy with a new-born looking baby in it to the ground outside the other day...
The thing that baffles me is that ireland has probably more opportunities than any other country in europe at the moment, yet having spent time in so called poor economy states like Germany, and in the so called rough parts of East Berlin, I have NEVER seen anything like this, or felt any fear of attack from youths in these places. It is a culture of scum. It will not go away until they stop multiplying. It's getting worse and worse. They have it all given to them on a plate and they spit it back at us. Why should we help them anymore?

I see this everyday as well, just yesterday I saw a woman stagger out of the Meth Clinic dragging her kid behind her.
But I am afraid this (lazy drunken, drugged up underclass) is happening in every town, city and county in Ireland now
and its growing. We will have to soon start building trailer parks, but that in itself brings more hazzards like .....Tornados !!

MorningStar · 10-03-2006 01:17PM

get called the wolly liberal typpe a lot and I generally see some people just don't have any opportunity. THere is a portion of people like this but there is also a portion of thugs who have more choices and choose to act like scumbags.

When you see somebody smashing a bus shelter it isn't some protest aginst the conditions in the neighbourhood thay are just making it worse.

If I see somebody driving a suped up car, at speed, with their pit bull I don't think the poor guy must have a hard lifetime. I think this guy at least wants to look like somebody who is hard and buys into the mentality of people similar to this. If you try to look like the aspiration of scumbags you probaly are a scumbag or want to be one.

I heard people in areas close to where I grew up complain about lack of facilities for young people. I used to go into their area to use the facilities there becasue our area didn't have the same. THe young people here have "no other option than to drink and take drugs". I agree it is harder but personal responsibility is not something you get rid of.

This is a socal issue related to attitude not money or facilities. The by no means can be seen as a protest aginst conditions but the act of violence by people who probably don't know how to communicate very well

Terry · 10-03-2006 02:11PM

quite a few people here seem to be under the impression that all heroin addicts are from under priveleged areas. you couldn't be farther from the truth.
every single heroin addict i know came from a good family and had great prospects in front of them.
heroin doesn't discriminate. if you try it, then you're an idiot who pretty much deserves the consequences. consequences that have been made known to you throughout your life.
it bugs me when i see people blaming society for the drug problem. it's not society, it's personal stupidity. heroin is addictive to all who try it. it's not like alcohol. yeah, a few people will become alcoholics, but anyone who uses heroin more than a few times will eventually become hooked on it. it doesn't matter who you are, where you are from or how much money you or your parents earn.

bottlerocket · 10-03-2006 03:05PM

The Wicker Man wrote:

The tracksuit and buggy brigade are breeding like rabbits.Why?
Because they can.
I truly believe that someday in the future it will not be a womans automatic right to have a baby just because she is physically able to do so.
In a small place like Ireland room to live and work will become the prime issue and the unchecked population growth amongst the lowest classes will start to be closely monitored.
Some sort of official legislation based on "if you cant feed em, dont breed em" will be enforced for the general good of a society which by then will be b
uckling beneath the weight of financing these peoples lives.
Sounds like some sort of Orwellian nightmare autocracy,but it will be absolutely necessary IMO

So who gets to decide who can and can't have children? What criteria would you use?

bottlerocket · 10-03-2006 03:14PM

As I see it, there's an issue here that nobody in the media seems to want to address. The fact is, whether you like it or not, Orangemen marching in Dublin and particularly marching past the GPO rouses strong emotions in a lot of people in this country. It doesn't fit in with 'modern liberal Ireland' so it's being ignored but there is a mindset out there that was outraged by the march. Republicanism is alive and well in 21st century Ireland albeit of many different hues. By all accounts the trouble was orchestrated by extremists within RSF and remember only a very small number of people were involved so it seems unfair to me to blame working class communities and some of the more rabid postings on this thread seem wide of the mark. I don't for one second believe it was socio-economically motivated or a cry for help.

MorningStar · 10-03-2006 03:24PM

julep wrote:

quite a few people here seem to be under the impression that all heroin addicts are from under priveleged areas. you couldn't be farther from the truth.

Sorry I can't agree with that. The vast majority of heroin addicts are from under privledged back grounds as the vast majority of laywers are not from underpriledged backgrounds.
On my road one person died of heroine and the only known user on the street on my friend's road over 20 are addicts and 5 deaths and he comes from a rougher area.
There are certain things connected to areas and income levels so lets not deny what is known. Apparently the majority of people in prison in Dublin are from 4 specific areas. As many people in prison are in jail due to drug related problems I think it is fair to say there is a link.

It is hard to get exact figures but anicdotially most people know the majority of Junkies on the street are not from privledged backgrounds.

Terry · 10-03-2006 03:31PM

either way, they had enough money to buy heroin in the first place, so they can't have been too poor. yeah, i know they eventually turn to theft, but i'm talking about before they become addicted. they could have used that money to buy some half decent clothes for a job interview. it all boils down to personal choice and stupidity on their part.
i'm addicted to cigarettes, but i don't blame society for that. i blame myself for being stupid enough to start smopking in the first place.

grumpytrousers · 10-03-2006 03:38PM

MorningStar wrote:

Sorry I can't agree with that. The vast majority of heroin addicts are from under privledged back grounds as the vast majority of laywers are not from underpriledged backgrounds.
On my road one person died of heroine and the only known user on the street on my friend's road over 20 are addicts and 5 deaths and he comes from a rougher area.
There are certain things connected to areas and income levels so lets not deny what is known. Apparently the majority of people in prison in Dublin are from 4 specific areas. As many people in prison are in jail due to drug related problems I think it is fair to say there is a link.

It is hard to get exact figures but anicdotially most people know the majority of Junkies on the street are not from privledged backgrounds.

What he said.

I was at a talk given by John Lonergan, the governer of Mountjoy Prison a few months back and if anybody here gets a chance to have a listen to him, they should do so. You mightn't agree with a lot of what he says. You mightn't agree with *anything* he says. But to listen is to learn...anyway the talk I was at, he actually said there was six areas. He said that on any given morning when somebody new arrives at the prison, that 85% of the time, they're from one of six general areas. Now I'm not sure how big areas we're talking about, but either way, it's an alarming statistic - that we can know that at any given point of time six areas will provide the vast vast vast majority of inmates in Mountjoy prison. To extrapolate what people here *seem* to be saying, am I to understand that we might as well
a) ringfence these areas
b) put sterility drugs in their water supply
c) chuck cartons of fags and occasionally food over the fence
d) wait for them all to die...

or do we try and do something sensible. The problem is, as i've said before, is that 'doing something sensible' won't win votes for FF/PD policiticians in marginal seats and won't carry short term visible results

Now, I'm not necessarily advocating the 'hold their hands and kiss them better' philosophy either, but the fact of the matter is that an awful lot of people start on drugs because they've got a shítty existance. Or rather their perception of their world as they see it (see - that pesky word perception again) is that it's pretty shítty and that drugs are as good a raison d'etre as anything else. I'm tellin' yez - it's attitudes in these areas that need to change or be changed...

MorningStar · 10-03-2006 04:31PM

I am far from advocating steralisation and/or captivity to everybody in poor areas.

Education is the key and better social services. If your family are negative about eductaion and aspirations it is very hard to fight past that on your own. It doesn't really matter what they are taoght in school if their parents say something else. Even the good parents have trouble as the kids are spending more time with these people who thinking "negatively".

It is very complex but personal responsibility is not negated.

Most people drank underage but if cheaper drugs were about and you were skint you might take the drugs instead. This is the reality. I worked in a youth disco one day (3pm-8pm) with kids aged up to 14. They were inner city kids mostly and they were tripping out of their minds. That was 94 and I guess some of them are proabbly addicts now

grumpytrousers · 10-03-2006 04:39PM

MorningStar wrote:

I am far from advocating steralisation and/or captivity to everybody in poor areas.

And to be clear...I wasn't advocating that you were! I get the feeling there's a few other 'brave new world-ers' around here though...

MorningStar · 10-03-2006 05:00PM

grumpytrousers wrote:

And to be clear...I wasn't advocating that you were! I get the feeling there's a few other 'brave new world-ers' around here though...

No idea what you mean by that?

Juan Pablo · 10-03-2006 05:24PM

Refers to Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" where the population is engineered into Alphas, Betas, Epsilons etc. Wonderful read and amazing to think it was written in the 20's. Goes to show what effect mescelin can have (does this make Huxley a junkie scumbag too

)

Captivity is a hash word to use, but I'd be all for the reintroduction of workhouse style institutions, at least here you could ensure the children of these scumbags and even the filthy scum themselves can be educated and nourished and at least given some hope in life.

fischerspooner · 10-03-2006 05:36PM

Juan Pablo wrote:

Captivity is a hash word to use

You got drugs on the brain buddy! Anyway - it's also down to having absolutely no respect for authority. So maybe it's the fault of the gardaí too. It's not only the young people from bad areas who hate the gardaí, but their parents too. Friends of mine's parents used to curse the gardaí all the time in front of their kids and me, and of course these friends now hate them for no apparent reason. Maybe this is the reason why people went out to throw bricks at them. These fools knew nothing about republicanism or what it stands for. I'm still baffled as to why some european countries just don't have these anti-social problems on anywhere near the same scale. It must be down to parenting, as I took drugs as a young teenager, drank, got into some trouble sometimes, but now I have the utmost respect for all forms of authority in Ireland. I must have inherited this from the good family I have...

The Wicker Man · 10-03-2006 07:32PM

bottlerocket wrote:

So who gets to decide who can and can't have children? What criteria would you use?

We are talking about the future and i am envisaging a worst case scenario
ie society continues in its current direction.
Obviously in the future a contemporary problem will require a contemporary solution which will be relevant at that time.None of us can predict the future but we can speculate on the future based on current trends.

Killaqueen!!! · 10-03-2006 07:35PM

fischerspooner wrote:

I work in an inner city area constantly surrounded by local young mothers with their young kids. The way they talk to their kids, beat them about the place, smoke/drink in front of them, hurl racist abuse at the asian folk in the shops, smoking joints in front of them, bringing their kids to methadone clinics etc... it's no surprise these kids grow up the way they are. These are not a few bad seeds, I see this EVERY DAY from many different people. They are not fit to raise children, and this standard of child rearing seems to be the norm in the inner city. I see it all the time. Men beating their girlfriends about on the street is also a common thing around here. A woman kicked her buggy with a new-born looking baby in it to the ground outside the other day...
The thing that baffles me is that ireland has probably more opportunities than any other country in europe at the moment, yet having spent time in so called poor economy states like Germany, and in the so called rough parts of East Berlin, I have NEVER seen anything like this, or felt any fear of attack from youths in these places. It is a culture of scum. It will not go away until they stop multiplying. It's getting worse and worse. They have it all given to them on a plate and they spit it back at us. Why should we help them anymore?

You have got it spot on. These scumbags aren't fit to raise children. They are filth. They are nothing. They should be neutered.

snickerpuss · 10-03-2006 07:48PM

I think the whole "they were rioting cos they're disadvantaged" thing is rubbish. I'm from coolock and no one i know was rioting.
It is sad that because i'm from coolock i have about a 1 in 10 chance of going to college just because of where i live.
Most of the schools here are vocational schools and you can mostly do the leaving cert applied, i think if thats all you expect of people you can't think they'll do any better.
And i can't simply believe its coincidence that people from coolock aren't smart enough for the Leaving Cert and are only able for the LCA.
I didn't go to a school in Coolock because i wouldn't have learnt anything and had a gone to a school here i doubt i'd be in college.
Its just sad that going to school here means you probably won't ever get any further then a Leaving Cert.

EOA_Mushy · 10-03-2006 08:46PM

Permian-Poster wrote:

The riots represent the first time in living
memory that the very poorest and most marginalised elements in Irish
society expressed themselves politically, undirected as it may have
been. The 'scumbags' will have experienced this as a great victory -
they stopped the 'orange bastards' from marching, they took on the
guards en masse and won - they controlled the city centre for several
hours on a Saturday afternoon and many of them will have experienced
this as an intensely empowering demonstration of their worth. In
future the government may have to reckon with this sector as a
political force - rioting is often empowering for the marginalised and
can easily spread and the government will want to take great pains to
discourage that. I think it is highly unlikely that the government
will be at all keen to repeat the disaster of the loyalist march and
risk providing a chance for this anger to express itself again.
Unfortunately, however, it is very difficult to turn such destructive
expressions of anger into constructive channels. While the most
marginalised elements of the working class woke up on Sunday morning
with a new appreciation of their collective power, they still lack any
constructive way of expressing this and until that avenue presents
itself, it is unlikely to lead to any political force that can lead
towards lasting change.

All of the political groupings in the south bar some of the republican
fringes and the anarchists will condemn these riots in the harshest
terms. Indeed within hours, the state's politicians were queuing up to
express their outrage and 'anger' at the events. But what is the point
of reacting to anger with anger? What use is anger against people who
don't give a f#ck and who don't have anything to lose? There is a
French anarchist saying that goes "Qui sème la misère récolte la
colère" – "he who sows misery, harvests anger". On Saturday February
25th 2006, we saw the first harvest of our Celtic Tiger and chances
are that it won't be the last.

(originally posted elsewhere)

This has no point. To have any political power would assume they had a goal in mind.

Goal != give us every thing free because we want to use our time to get drunk!

bottlerocket · 10-03-2006 10:33PM

The Wicker Man wrote:

We are talking about the future and i am envisaging a worst case scenario
ie society continues in its current direction.
Obviously in the future a contemporary problem will require a contemporary solution which will be relevant at that time.None of us can predict the future but we can speculate on the future based on current trends.

Hey man, nice answer... with your skill at avoiding the question you should go into politics yerself!:)

Terry · 10-03-2006 10:45PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

You have got it spot on. These scumbags aren't fit to raise children. They are filth. They are nothing. They should be neutered.

brought to you courtesy of someone with this in their sig line: Don't become a monster in order to defeat a monster.

so some people want the poor to be segregated even further and maybe even neutered. right so. then we'll take austria, poland, the benelux countries, scandanavia and france and sort out their pesky poor people. we will brand them all with numbers and round them up and put them into specially built camps.
i can see it now. it will be a glorious future with only rich people and no pesky poor.

The Wicker Man · 11-03-2006 04:20PM

bottlerocket wrote:

Hey man, nice answer... with your skill at avoiding the question you should go into politics yerself!:)

its clearly beyond your comprehension :rolleyes:

[Jackass] · 11-03-2006 08:12PM

Scum bags are a plauge on this city...it'sa vicious circle as 2 absolute scumbags have sex and produce a child who is a blank canvas...who then goes on to learn the way of a scumbag and inevitably becomes one as they know no other way of life...Ignorant, aggresive, disrespectful...i have more respect for a piece of sh*t i wipe off the sole of my shoe.

Which is why I propose you need to get a child licence...if you give birth to a unlicenced child it will be castrated at birth or have it's tubes cut....problem solved at the source...then our tax money (paid for by getting off my arse and getting a job because i'd rather work hard for 40 hours a week and have a nice lifestyle for the other 128 hours..instead of being content to do fu*k all and complain about the government being stingey and the dole should be more...if it was up to me there would be NO dole...don't work, don't eat)..anyway, when they're extinct we can use our tax money to clean up this sh*t hole of a city they destroyed.

bottlerocket · 11-03-2006 09:53PM

The Wicker Man wrote:

its clearly beyond your comprehension :rolleyes:

Was only joking with ya....

For the government to withdraw the safety net of social security from the poor, as you suggest, 3 things would need to happen. 1 - They would need to get public support fpr it. 2- We would have to withdraw from the EU 3- We would have to withdraw from the UN convention on the rights of the child. As you correctly state, its all hypothetical as we can only speculate and not predict the future. Therefore I speculate that your theory is nonsense.

bottlerocket · 11-03-2006 10:16PM

DubGuy wrote:

if it was up to me there would be NO dole...don't work, don't eat)..

Fortunately, it's not.

The Wicker Man · 12-03-2006 02:01PM

bottlerocket wrote:

Was only joking with ya....

For the government to withdraw the safety net of social security from the poor, as you suggest, 3 things would need to happen. 1 - They would need to get public support fpr it. 2- We would have to withdraw from the EU 3- We would have to withdraw from the UN convention on the rights of the child. As you correctly state, its all hypothetical as we can only speculate and not predict the future. Therefore I speculate that your theory is nonsense.

So you can only SPECULATE that my theory is nonsense,that'll do for me

Eru · 12-03-2006 04:21PM

The majority were not from the inner city at all. Look at the addresses in the papers already and the ones coming too a court near you. Very few inner city names.

Also note that foreign nationals were present and involved as well. What was their noble goal?

Finally, plenty of inner city people work, raise kids and have healthy lives. Many even become Gardai, nurses, etc and have fine relationships with these agencies.

These thugs bring shame on the good name of honest inner city people. Do not confuse the two or insult the decent as I have met dozens from Pearce Street, Sheriff Street and East-wall that have no problems with Gardai and dont feel 'opressed'. In fact they think these thugs deserve a good kicking.

fly_agaric · 12-03-2006 06:24PM

DubGuy wrote:

Which is why I propose you need to get a child licence...if you give birth to a unlicenced child it will be castrated at birth or have it's tubes cut....problem solved at the source

:rolleyes: Lovely stuff. When are you moving to the PRC?

By the way, please reassure me that you aren't a member of a political party and working your way up the ranks so you can someday impose your tinpot dictator fantasies on the rest of us?

Eru · 12-03-2006 06:39PM

fly_agaric wrote:

:rolleyes: Lovely stuff. When are you moving to the PRC?

By the way, please reassure me that you aren't a member of a political party and working your way up the ranks so you can someday impose your tinpot dictator fantasies on the rest of us?

I believe he already has. This is the alias for Michael McDowell!

Seriously,
Parntage does not always mean criminal = criminal and vice versa plus I doubt Dub's comment was genuine. Its surely an over the top remark.

Karoma · 12-03-2006 06:49PM

Ah bless. I can picture the Concern ad's:

"This is Daz. Daz is from the poorest of communities... Ballymun. Daz has to walk 4 miles each day to fetch LIDL beer for his family... For as little as €100 per week, you can keep Daz dressed in tracksuits and runners and keep him pissed. Phone now."

Reason why so called Thugs rioted on Oconnel Streets

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