teen pregnancy

06-03-2006 02:37PM

mayotom wrote:

I read a book lately called Freakononmics(well worth a read) in this book the author writes a lot about social differences and how teenage pregnacy is closely linked with the parents social background.

where did ya get this book?

Ickle Magoo · 06-03-2006 02:43PM

That's very true jsr, tho I think a lot of the blame is put at the feet of girls/young women as they are responsible for their own bodies and what happens to or with those bodies....I find it hard to believe that any 14/15 even 16/17yr old is in the kind of relationship you are talking about.....maybe I'm wrong to think like that.....

Like my Mum always warned me, if a girl gets pregnant & the father doesn't want to know then she is the one that would have to bring up the child or decide what to do with the pregnancy - it is easy for a man to walk away from a pregnancy, impossible for the woman to.....it obviously has a much larger impact on the prospective mothers body & life and so although it takes two to create a baby, it need only take one to prevent it & girls have so many more reasons for wanting to prevent pregnancy.....in this day & age I think there are very few excuses.....blaming the guy for not wearing a condom or puting the condom on incorrectly when other birth control methods are readily available is no longer a believable excuse.....IMO.....that's why I blame the girl

Sleepy · 06-03-2006 02:45PM

Anyone else wonder if the current 'Yummy Mummy'/'MILF' thing is glamourising motherhood a little too much?

Perhaps if the media were to glamourise the toned, lithe figure of youth instead some girls might be more inclined to be careful? I'm not for any minute suggesting that aesthetics are a good reason to have/not have a child but there definitely seems to be a percentage of the teenage single-mothers that are only getting pregnant through ignorance. Maybe a campaign based around more 'low-brow' reasons for being careful might be more effective with this particular demographic?

Gandhi · 06-03-2006 02:48PM

That Freakonomics book is all over the place - any bookshop would have it filed under economics and/or sociology. There was a thread on Humanities or Politics discussing it a few months back if you do a search. Great book, whether you agree with everything in it or not. The authors often do pieces in the NY Times that are quite good.

Another thing he mentioned on the abortion topic was that Ceaucescu's anti-abortion policies in Romania led to a huge supply of restless teenagers which helped to overthrow him twenty years or so later.

ST* · 06-03-2006 03:09PM

brown*eyed*girl wrote:

I only had lone parents for a year or two and I worked for everything I have. I bought my house and I'm very proud of my achievements. I think that if a girl gets pregnant that LPA (lone parents allowance) should only be available for 2 - 3 years max. They then need to get a job. Also if they get pregnant a second time then they get nothing extra. Also the Fathers need to pay up too. The amount of Fathers not paying maintainence is unreal.

What an infuriating post. I dont know exactly what your circumstances were to begin with, or how many children you had when on OPF allowance, but the social welfare have single mothers between a rock and a hard place. Im not talking about the ones that are shacked up with partners, I mean the genuine ones.

They tell you that you can work 19.5hrs per week, but when you do the maths on it you are giving that to a child-minder for your sh1tty 19.5hrs.

Its a hopeless feeling knowing you can't go back to work because you will be financially crippled if you do, its one of the main causes of depression in young mothers.

While your post was worthy of a standing ovation to other members, it made me sick. Please, enlighten the single mothers of Ireland how to make it. Im at the edge of my seat for this one.

The thread started out as a discussion on teenage mothers, and now there are a full fledged attacks on single mothers in general.

jsr · 06-03-2006 03:24PM

.......I totally agree it is a womans body and its up to her to mind it. My only gripe with this thread (not ickles post) is lumps are being knocked out of young mothers who can't support their kids. My point is ability is not always down to age. yeah imature girls often make crap mothers but so do imature women. I have a personal reason for this opinion as i know more than one teenage mother and they are fantastic parents but always get grief because of the ages they were when they had their kids. Judge on ability not on age. Don't assume they are crap/lazy because they are young.

Ickle Magoo · 06-03-2006 03:41PM

jsr wrote:

.......I totally agree it is a womans body and its up to her to mind it. My only gripe with this thread (not ickles post) is lumps are being knocked out of young mothers who can't support their kids. My point is ability is not always down to age. yeah imature girls often make crap mothers but so do imature women. I have a personal reason for this opinion as i know more than one teenage mother and they are fantastic parents but always get grief because of the ages they were when they had their kids. Judge on ability not on age. Don't assume they are crap/lazy because they are young.

I agree with you there - a young mother doesn't automatically mean a bad mother.....I also think it's pointless griping about a pregnancy or child once it has happened/is here - either better education is needed to reduce unwanted pregnancies or better resources are needed to help after the event so single &/or young mothers are not trapped by the benefits cycle......I imagine the girls mentioned by some, who strive to be on benefits & bringing up children alone, are very much in the minority.....

Sleepy · 06-03-2006 03:50PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

What an infuriating post. I dont know exactly what your circumstances were to begin with, or how many children you had when on OPF allowance, but the social welfare have single mothers between a rock and a hard place. Im not talking about the ones that are shacked up with partners, I mean the genuine ones.

Fall unlucky enough to require society to give you a helping hand then shame on society for not educating you properly, allow yourself to make the same mistake again requiring society to dig deeper to support you then shame on you imho.

jsr · 06-03-2006 03:53PM

Ickle Magoo wrote:

I also think it's pointless griping about a pregnancy or child once it has happened/is here - either better education is needed to reduce unwanted pregnancies or better resources are needed to help after the event so single &/or young mothers are not trapped by the benefits cycle........

Smartest thing on this thread. Pat yourself on the back.:)

brown*eyed*girl · 06-03-2006 03:53PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

What an infuriating post. I dont know exactly what your circumstances were to begin with, or how many children you had when on OPF allowance, but the social welfare have single mothers between a rock and a hard place. Im not talking about the ones that are shacked up with partners, I mean the genuine ones.

They tell you that you can work 19.5hrs per week, but when you do the maths on it you are giving that to a child-minder for your sh1tty 19.5hrs.

Its a hopeless feeling knowing you can't go back to work because you will be financially crippled if you do, its one of the main causes of depression in young mothers.

While your post was worthy of a standing ovation to other members, it made me sick. Please, enlighten the single mothers of Ireland how to make it. Im at the edge of my seat for this one.

The thread started out as a discussion on teenage mothers, and now there are a full fledged attacks on single mothers in general.

Well I struggled for around five years after I gave back my book and went back full-time. For every rise I got in work my LPA was cut and rent allowance was cut etc. I would be down in money for the rise I got. I was too stuck between a rock and a hard place for a few years. I was borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. I often did feel like throwing it in but in the end it paid off and eventually I started earning decent wages and I saved every penny for the deposit for my house. I’m not saying its easy but it can be done. Now that was nearly 13 years ago so perhaps things have changed. Once my daughter started playschool I went full-time. My Mam was my childminder (I paid her near enough the going rate too). I think the crèches are the main culprit for the genuine single parents nowadays. Guess I was lucky. I still think though that once kids start playschool/school there’s nothing stopping MOST single parents getting a part-time job. Its not a simple A to B process but social welfare is IMO a stepping stone and too many people are abusing it and its not just single mothers.

Also to confirm I was referring to the single Mothers that have multiple kids and are long term on LPA. They are knowingly abusing the system. I am all for genuine single parents as I was one myself and I am delighted if my tax helps some single parent get back into the workforce by funding some FAS course or scheme.

I apologise if I offended any genuine single parents but the spongers and people who were getting pregnant deliberately were the ones on my mind.

simu · 06-03-2006 03:53PM

Afair, the rate of teenage pregnancy in Ireland is pretty low and is mostly to people at the end of their teenage years. There was stuff in the papers about this recently but I can't find online links.

Personally, I'm pregnant at 25 and feel like a bit of a freak - most of my friends and acquaintances are older and childless!

LegacyUser · 06-03-2006 04:15PM

brown*eyed*girl wrote:

I think that if a girl gets pregnant that LPA (lone parents allowance) should only be available for 2 - 3 years max. They then need to get a job. Also if they get pregnant a second time then they get nothing extra. Also the Fathers need to pay up too. The amount of Fathers not paying maintainence is unreal. What really pissed me off is the single Mothers who aren't single mothers at all. They are living with the Dad's but pretending they aren't and get all the benefits and their partners are working and they are better off then a lot of hard working people. Sorry going off topic there but there are a lot of those couples around. Single parents allowance is being claimed by A LOT of couples. The government needs to be a lot stricter on who gets this allowance.

A bit of generalisation in this post, but I do agree with your stance on lone parent benefits, and I also agree that in some cases the mother lives with the father and still manages to claim single parents benefits, as well as accomodation.

Perhaps if our state didn't make it so easy for single parents to continue having illegitimate children these young men and women would be more careful in the bedroom.

ST* · 06-03-2006 04:19PM

brown*eyed*girl wrote:

Now that was nearly 13 years ago so perhaps things have changed. Once my daughter started playschool I went full-time. My Mam was my childminder (I paid her near enough the going rate too). Guess I was lucky... I still think though that once kids start playschool/school there’s nothing stopping MOST single parents getting a part-time job. .. I apologise if I offended any genuine single parents but the spongers and people who were getting pregnant deliberately were the ones on my mind.

Well you are right there, things have changed alot. While the single mothers allowance seems to be going up a little every year, it hardly holds up against the cost of living these days. Im sorry if I came over harsh in my post, as you can guess Im a single mother myself to two children.

There was a thread recently opened on AH about buying houses and how difficult it is to get on the ladder, with one or two people in the home working. What do you think the odd are of me walking into a bank and getting a mortgage as a single parent are?

You were lucky, and it does sound like it was hard going, at least a home of your own was somehow achievable.

brown*eyed*girl · 06-03-2006 04:55PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

Well you are right there, things have changed alot. While the single mothers allowance seems to be going up a little every year, it hardly holds up against the cost of living these days. Im sorry if I came over harsh in my post, as you can guess Im a single mother myself to two children.

There was a thread recently opened on AH about buying houses and how difficult it is to get on the ladder, with one or two people in the home working.

You were lucky, and it does sound like it was hard going, at least a home of your own was somehow achievable.

Well as sillysausage said I was generalising and referring to the spongers who CHOSE this lifestyle. It is of course not a black and white issue and there is lots of grey in between. I am not for one minute referring to single parents like you and me. Unfortunately the former type give us the bad name. Hold on in there you will eventually get over the hurdle. When they both start big school you will have a lot more choices on what you do. It will all work out in the end. Just set yourself a long term plan and go for it. If you ever want any support or advice just PM me. I have a 3.5yr old too and I split with his Dad when he was 2yrs so became a single parent again:eek: I will go to hell. Well his Dad does help me rear him but still hard enough.

Sorry for going off topic.

Femelade · 06-03-2006 05:01PM

i am a single mother of one daughter, had her a few days shy of turning 21. i was with her father for 4 years but we broke up and i moved home 2 yrs ago. i work partime, but most of those wages go to childminder. i hadnt recieved maintenance in 2 yrs until recently i started to recieve arrears after a court hearing...but its tippance really.

been on the council list for 2 yrs and still hvent been assesed. because i only have one child i'd prob only get a flat from them.

i would love to buy a house, but where would i get money for something like that....i really am stuck in a rut

LegacyUser · 06-03-2006 05:04PM

Femmy wrote:

i am a single mother of one daughter, had her a few days shy of turning 21. i was with her father for 4 years but we broke up and i moved home 2 yrs ago. i work partime, but most of those wages go to childminder. i hadnt recieved maintenance in 2 yrs until recently i started to recieve arrears after a court hearing...but its tippance really.

been on the council list for 2 yrs and still hvent been assesed. because i only have one child i'd prob only get a flat from them.

i would love to buy a house, but where would i get money for something like that....i really am stuck in a rut

That is a really crummy situation to be in Femmy, and I sympathise with your situation.

I don't know much about your back graound, but you come across as an intelligent and educated young women, who can and will do well for herself.

Femelade · 06-03-2006 05:19PM

sillysausage wrote:

That is a really crummy situation to be in Femmy, and I sympathise with your situation.

I don't know much about your back graound, but you come across as an intelligent and educated young women, who can and will do well for herself.

well thanks silly.
its just a situation that i have to deal with, i've been to college, went back after my daughter was born, finished a course, doing a nite course now.

life is only bad if u let it get bad...but in saying that, its the house situation is the ****test thing and a very hard thing to solve.

Pythia · 06-03-2006 05:41PM

dar83 wrote:

Whats that supposed to mean, eh?!

Well, Havok said

Must have been a lovely area you grew up in so....

and I replied to that, saying didn't she just say it was Coolock. As in csg already said where she lived.
(Ok I had a typo and said see instead.)

RoundyMooney · 06-03-2006 05:41PM

Femmy wrote:

its just a situation that i have to deal with, i've been to college, went back after my daughter was born, finished a course, doing a nite course now.

Well, fair play. It is a difficult situation, in that you're hardly one of the opportunistic teenage gimps that some of us are referring to. You got stung, it happens in relationships, but you're digging yourself out. Kudos.

Femmy wrote:

life is only bad if u let it get bad...but in saying that, its the house situation is the ****test thing and a very hard thing to solve.

Well, that applies to any single person starting off, baby or no. It's a damn sight harder when you can't earn independently though. Your situation is a classic example of the grey area between welfare spongers and honest decent people who need a dig out now and then. I think anyone would agree that someone like you deserves a helping hand and a kick start, the question is how to differentiate between someone such as yourself and a schoolgirl who lies back and thinks of the free house and "mickey money" as some of them call it. If any good soul out there knows the answer, a ministerial merc awaits!

All I can say is, best of luck...

Femelade · 06-03-2006 05:54PM

RoundyMooney wrote:

Well, fair play. It is a difficult situation, in that you're hardly one of the opportunistic teenage gimps that some of us are referring to. You got stung, it happens in relationships, but you're digging yourself out. Kudos.

Well, that applies to any single person starting off, baby or no. It's a damn sight harder when you can't earn independently though. Your situation is a classic example of the grey area between welfare spongers and honest decent people who need a dig out now and then. I think anyone would agree that someone like you deserves a helping hand and a kick start, the question is how to differentiate between someone such as yourself and a schoolgirl who lies back and thinks of the free house and "mickey money" as some of them call it. If any good soul out there knows the answer, a ministerial merc awaits!

All I can say is, best of luck...

thanks for that.
i have a good life at the moment and i'm sure i will solve that problem some day...i might be 40 when i do solve it but hey.

and there's always the lotto , cos i will win that soon.

RoundyMooney · 06-03-2006 06:04PM

Femmy wrote:

and there's always the lotto , cos i will win that soon.

Any chance of an 'oul sub there honey?

snickerpuss · 06-03-2006 06:08PM

Yeah more people from coolock seem to have children really young then people from other areas.
I doubt they're be doing it on purpose though, and i don't think adoption is an easy option for most people, i could never give up a child.
I think it might have to do with sex education really, i sure as hell never got any and even when i went to the well woman clinic when i was 17 they were very unfriendly and condescending.

Siogfinsceal · 06-03-2006 06:13PM

inspiring stories from Brown eyed girl, femmy and Shock treatment - people who had kids from relationships that unfortunately did not work out and are trying their best to provide everything for them and get back in to the workplace and build a good life for themselves and their kids.

It makes it even sadder that there are young girls out there who are deliberately getting pregnant in order to abuse the benefits system or to create what they feel is an easy way. If we could nip this trend in the bud there would be more money available to support genuine single mothers and to provide childcare and help and support to those who deserve it rather than those who are deliberately getting themselves into this situation

RoundyMooney · 06-03-2006 06:29PM

Siogfinsceal wrote:

inspiring stories from Brown eyed girl, femmy and Shock treatment - people who had kids from relationships that unfortunately did not work out and are trying their best to provide everything for them and get back in to the workplace and build a good life for themselves and their kids.

Indeed.

Siogfinsceal wrote:

It makes it even sadder that there are young girls out there who are deliberately getting pregnant in order to abuse the benefits system or to create what they feel is an easy way. If we could nip this trend in the bud there would be more money available to support genuine single mothers and to provide childcare and help and support to those who deserve it rather than those who are deliberately getting themselves into this situation

That is quite true, and in my opinion one of the reasons why the welfare state is a failure on so many different levels. We subsidise fecklessness and stupidity every day of our lives, and yet decent people do not get the help they deserve. The problem lies with how we define the criteria as to who is deserving of assistance, who makes the decisions, and how do we police them. Couple that to a generation of leeches who have grown so accustomed to having everything handed to them on a plate that cutting off such assistance, even on a phased basis, would result in a humanitarian outcry. It's a bloody disaster.

snickerpuss · 06-03-2006 06:35PM

How would you tell who the 'decent' and 'genuine' people are? I find it so hard to believe that people would decide to get pregnant for the money, i mean its hardly worth it.

RoundyMooney · 06-03-2006 06:51PM

snickerpuss wrote:

How would you tell who the 'decent' and 'genuine' people are?

I didn't volunteer an answer, I posed a puzzler.

Roundy wrote:

The problem lies with how we define the criteria as to who is deserving of assistance, who makes the decisions, and how do we police them.

snickerpuss wrote:

I find it so hard to believe that people would decide to get pregnant for the money, i mean its hardly worth it.

I can assure you that they do, and even in less extreme cases, they open their legs safe in the knowledge that their inept stupidity will be rewarded with council accommodation and a weekly income to spend on Kappa tops, Elizabeth Duke, and John Player Blue. Do you not see the evidence all around you?

<p.s. don't construe my views as laying the blame solely at the door of the female chav population, the male of the sub species are even bigger idiots, and just as responsible>

06-03-2006 06:59PM

I was in LV today, it really is young girl+pram central...

ST* · 06-03-2006 07:08PM

Siogfinsceal wrote:

inspiring stories from Brown eyed girl, femmy and Shock treatment - people who had kids from relationships that unfortunately did not work out and are trying their best to provide everything for them and get back in to the workplace and build a good life for themselves and their kids.

Thanks Siog, much appreciated. People can so readily judge you for having children out of wedlock, no matter how long you were with the father.
I was with my ex for 10yrs, I wont go into details but I ended it and it was the hardest choice I've ever had to make.

I can't understand how teenagers manage to cope with babies, my oldest came along when I was twenty three - and to say its alot of work is an understatement, especially having to juggle them with studies.

Siogfinsceal · 06-03-2006 07:18PM

while the men that get these girls pregnant are to blame to an extent - If these girls are happy to get pregnant and are doing it deliberately its tricky. Where two people are having sex a girl with sense who doesnt want to get pregnant will think contraception - to protect from stds and pregnancy- after all the gusy not going to get pregnant now is he? Often Ive seen girls go out to get pregnant and not really caring if it happens and it turns out the guy thought the girl was on the pill. In fairness many of these lads were not looking to become a teenage dad. you will also see cases where the man doesnt want to keep the baby and the girl does. Lads do need to wise up on contraception though and I think it would help with this situation. If fellas knew so many girls out there are happy enough to get pregnant and claim benefits because they are going to fail their leaving anyway (someones conversation post earlier)they would be much quicker to wear a condom

RoundyMooney · 06-03-2006 07:26PM

Yes. Wear a condom, simple as. I must have shares in Durex at this stage because I *never* took a chance. The only exceptions to this are when I was in a long termer and knew bloody well she was popping the Ovranette or whatever. For those who have vacated long term relationships for whatever reason with dependants, and without the security blanket of a legal partnership or marriage, the problem is ensuring that they are helped out by the state. I would happily pay an extra 5% income tax if I knew that people in such an unenviable situation were accomodated in all respects to the best of the states ability, and that Daddy, wherever he may be was also held accountable in all aspects of his childrens welfare. I would also happily withdraw all funding from welfare spongers, with or without children, if there was any way to do it.

teen pregnancy

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