agree with the march or not

ninebeanrows · 25-02-2006 10:51PM

Hi

Its obvious they were down for one reason and one reason only TO START ****ING TROUBLE I have to say I wish they were all killed today to teach them a proper lesion not to bring there ****ing **** down to a peaceful county like Dublin who does’nt give a flying ****.

Is that an educated stance or something that a scumbag would say?:)

I rest my case and i know i WILL not be banned for standing up
for bloody intelligence:mad:

MooseJam · 25-02-2006 10:53PM

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

i think you will find it offended many irish people,IRA/SF has about 15% support in republic are 85% of population west brits?

no, 85% of the population aren't west brits, but nearly 100% of those who use the term "IRA/SF" are, so it seems my earlier guess about where your loyalties lie was correct. You, Mr Byrne, are a West Brit.

By the way, SF has 15% support, not IRA/SF, I've never seen IRA on any election posters.

Terry · 25-02-2006 10:56PM

Love Ulster's demands

- We demand the right to wave our union flags. Being in the Irish capital for a few hours might make us forget our own nationality so union jacks are a must. It's not like we'd ever ban nationalists from waving their tricolours in the North...

- We demand the right to wear lillies as a symbol of our Protestantism. Being in such a sinful bastion of Roman Papishness like Dublin might scar our souls forever.

- We demand Dubliners acknowledge that we see their city as irrelevant. It is so irrelevant to us that we are saving up and travelling all the way down to Dublin to let that be known.

- We demand the right to express to Dubliners how sick we are of their State meddling in the North's affairs. Unionist politicians would never meddle in the affairs of the Irish Republic and for example would never tell the Republic how to deal with issues like the Colombia Three.

i think that kind of says it all.
remember, these are the people who organised this march.
this is how they view us.
these are the people who the counter protesters (and i'm not talking about the rioters. they are a different story) were against.
is this the way all unionists act? is this how all unionists view us?
no. i didn't think so.

these were a bunch of bigots who just wanted to march through Dublin city so that they could go back home and laugh at either:
A: getting away with it, or,
B: starting a riot.

they are bigots and no arguement from any loyalist or sympathiser is going to change that.
it disgusts me that they would bring along innocent victims of terrorism purely for their own political agenda.

there was absolutely no need whatsoever for this march. none.

mfitz · 25-02-2006 10:58PM

Weathercheck wrote:

Hi

Is that an educated stance or something that a scumbag would say?:)

I rest my case and i know i WILL not be banned for standing up
for bloody intelligence:mad:

ok might of gone abit to far with wat i said how about wish they were fataly injuried make ya feel better?

ninebeanrows · 25-02-2006 10:59PM

mfitz wrote:

ok might of gone abit to far with wat i said how about wish they were fataly injuried make ya feel better?

abit i suppose...;)

Civilian_Target · 25-02-2006 11:04PM

Orangemen have just as much a right to march as anyone else - they have a cause to stand for and you've got to respect that. Its a free country, and the orangemen were going to abide by the law, unlike todays rioters, whose actions cannot be condoned.

The fact is - Orangemen *do* march in this country. Every year they have a festival in Donegal, it's great craic. Its like paddy's day, everyone goes out and watches the parade, have a mighty good time, everyone has a few hot dogs on the main street and possibly a few beers. When SF bussed in protestors from the north for last years march, the Gardai turned them out of the town for disturbing the peace, and the march was still great craic.

gallagc8 · 25-02-2006 11:04PM

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

sinn fein held a parade starting in parnell square a few months ago with kids dressed up as gunmen with plastic replica rifles etc and former IRA killers marching,should that march have been allowed despite offending many people???

You don't cancel parades because they're offensive. Its the democratic right of all people to offend if they're from the north or south. The reason you cancel parades is if they are going to result in a situation such as today's. The Love Ulseter crowd had every right to protest here today but the simple fact is Dublin wasn't prepared for it. You are always going to have brainwashed idiots and scumbags along for the ride. The important thing is to let them have their say without wrecking the place as they are prone to do. This is where the Gardaí and Dublin City Council failed.

Also all those "true republicans" out there should welcome the fact the this parade was planned to take place in Dublin. The only way we're going to have a united Ireland is by convinceing these guys that it would be a good idea, not by mindless rioting and looting.

All today showed is that there are always going to be morons out there. We just have to prepare for them

Terry · 25-02-2006 11:10PM

Civilian_Target wrote:

Orangemen have just as much a right to march as anyone else - they have a cause to stand for and you've got to respect that. Its a free country, and the orangemen were going to abide by the law, unlike todays rioters, whose actions cannot be condoned.

The fact is - Orangemen *do* march in this country. Every year they have a festival in Donegal, it's great craic. Its like paddy's day, everyone goes out and watches the parade, have a mighty good time, everyone has a few hot dogs on the main street and possibly a few beers. When SF bussed in protestors from the north for last years march, the Gardai turned them out of the town for disturbing the peace, and the march was still great craic.

there is a huge difference between an annual parade and a protest march organised by bigots whose only gripe in life is that catholics now have an equal standing in northern Ireland.
the people behind love ulster are bigots. i urge anyone here to prove me wrong.

rondeco · 25-02-2006 11:12PM

gallagc8 wrote:

Originally Posted by ronbyrne2005
sinn fein held a parade starting in parnell square a few months ago with kids dressed up as gunmen with plastic replica rifles etc and former IRA killers marching,should that march have been allowed despite offending many people???

You don't cancel parades because they're offensive. Its the democratic right of all people to offend if there from the north or south. The reason you cancel parades is if they are going to result in a situation such as todays. The Love Ulseter crowd had every right to protest here today but the simple fact is Dublin wasn't prepared for it. You are always going to have brainwashed idiots and scumbags along for the ride. The important thing is to let them have their say without wrecking the place as they are prone to do. This is where the Gardaí and Dublin City Council failed.

Also all those "true republicans" out there should welcome the fact the this parade was planned to take place in Dublin. The only way we're going to have a united Ireland is be convinceing these guys that it would be a good idea, not by mindless rioting and looting.

All today showed is that there are always going to be morons out there. We just have to prepare for them

Very sensible and correct attitude. This riotous behaviour today has widened the gap between north and south but thats another matter. I do beleive though that senior management in the Gardai messed up today. During the EU Accession day, dublin was saturated with Gardai resulting in one outburst of violence that lasted no more than 20 minutes and was nowhere near the scale of things witnessed today. There was nowhere near the same amount of Gardai there today. I would estimate only about 20% of the number was there for a crowd that at least matched the size of the may day one. Credit to the Gardai that were on the street today. They did a super job considering their situation but their superiors let us all down today.

LookingFor · 25-02-2006 11:18PM

Let them have their march. The last thing they want is to have their march and for it to go unnoticed. That's what Dubliners should do. Let them have it and just completely ignore them as if they didn't exist.

Unfortunately, it's probably too naive to expect that this can actually happen. It only takes a few dozen to stir the pot, and in pile the rest of the (local) **** who'll take any excuse to get involved.

But in principle they should be allowed have their march, absolutely. Practical concerns for their safety, and others, are gonna be there for some time to come unfortunately.

Terry · 25-02-2006 11:21PM

LookingFor wrote:

Let them have their march. The last thing they want is to have their march and for it to go unnoticed. That's what Dubliners should do. Let them have it and just completely ignore them as if they didn't exist.

Unfortunately, it's probably too naive to expect that this can actually happen. It only takes a few dozen to stir the pot, and in pile the rest of the (local) **** who'll take any excuse to get involved.

But in principle they should be allowed have their march, absolutely. Practical concerns for their safety, and others, are gonna be there for some time to come unfortunately.

did you watch the news today?

slipss · 25-02-2006 11:25PM

LookingFor wrote:

Let them have their march. The last thing they want is to have their march and for it to go unnoticed. That's what Dubliners should do. Let them have it and just completely ignore them as if they didn't exist.

Unfortunately, it's probably too naive to expect that this can actually happen. It only takes a few dozen to stir the pot, and in pile the rest of the (local) **** who'll take any excuse to get involved.

But in principle they should be allowed have their march, absolutely. Practical concerns for their safety, and others, are gonna be there for some time to come unfortunately.

I get your point about completely ignoring the march but where do you draw the line? Ever here the saying "evil prevails when good men fail to act"?

So say this march went by unnoticed?, next time they would come back waving UVF banners, the time after that it would be placards with "Bomb the republic" and so on and so on untill they provoked a violent reaction, atleast this way we nip it in the bud

LookingFor · 26-02-2006 12:02AM

If they wanna talk about bombing the republic etc. personally I'd treat them no differently than other wacko on the street spouting nonsense i.e. i'd roll my eyes and walk away.

But I think that would fall under incitement of violence, and wouldn't be allowed anyway. So yeah, you probably would draw the line at that, and such a march would not be allowed. As I understand it, that's not what these people were protesting to say (I honestly don't know the point of their little march, nor do I care).

Ultimately, the authority here is the police, the government, the city council and so forth. They carefully arranged and approved the contents of this march. The authority is not the IRA, or self-appointed representatives of the IRA.

nlgbbbblth · 26-02-2006 12:53AM

senordingdong wrote:

You're a fool if you think they were republicans rioting today.

But I'd be pretty sure that if you asked the rioters

'Do you consider yourself to be a republican?'

their answer would be

'Yes'

franksm · 26-02-2006 12:57AM

MooseJam wrote:

Final Score

The Bhoys 1 - Orangmen 0

Idiot.

What "bhoys" ?

The celtic-shirts who came down from the north to have their fun today ? You really think they represent the rest of us here ?

Huggles · 26-02-2006 02:34AM

LookingFor wrote:

As I understand it, that's not what these people were protesting to say (I honestly don't know the point of their little march, nor do I care).

Ultimately, the authority here is the police, the government, the city council and so forth. They carefully arranged and approved the contents of this march. The authority is not the IRA, or self-appointed representatives of the IRA.

The point of the Love Ulster march today was to commemerate the loyalists that have died in Northern Ireland during the troubles.

I'll type it again, commemerate the loyalists that have died in Northern Ireland during the troubles. Northern Ireland for christsakes! Why did they feel the need to march in Dublin?

There was one simple reason behind this and have stated as much on there own site, cause trouble and then sit back and watch it unfold.

I'm disgusted with the Minister for allowing this. I can almost hear Dev spinning in his grave in Glasnevin!!!

TheNog · 26-02-2006 03:25AM

I think some bad planning from the Gardai/minisiter and the council are partly to blame for the extent of the riot today. The fact that O'Connell St. is a building site containing alot of ammunition such as bricks and slabs. The fact that there was supply dumps hidden in back streets within storage bins. All of this should have been taken care of, the streets shouldhave been cleared of all objects which could be used to cause damage.

If you look at some the American football and hockey games that have in the past caused outbreaks of violence, the police forces and the communities go to great lengths to minimise damage.

the Gardai should learn from today's events and indeed the mini riot on the building site in south dublin during the week.

Civilian_Target · 26-02-2006 03:47AM

julep wrote:

there is a huge difference between an annual parade and a protest march organised by bigots whose only gripe in life is that catholics now have an equal standing in northern Ireland.
the people behind love ulster are bigots. i urge anyone here to prove me wrong.

Everyone's someway bigoted. And they're a hell of a lot less bigoted than the rioters! The fact is, Orange marches are only offensive if you make them offensive - much like a Paddy's day parade they're a display of nationalism -- and people are entitled to display that, it's enshrined in our constitution, it's called tolerance. Obviously tolerance has its limits, such as hate speech, but there was absoultely no reason why the love Ulster march shouldn't have gone ahead. There's exists protestant minority in this country, even if its only a few percent there's no reason why they shouldn't express their culture like anyone else - and a marching band is a much much better display of culture than turning cars over and burning things!

arbeitsscheuer · 26-02-2006 03:57AM

And being tolerant/ignoring the march would've been far far more effective.

In essence, the Unionists have finally got concrete proof of the reason they gave all the way back in 1913 as to why they opposed Unity. A Catholic Ireland would treat Protestants like sh*t. Of course, in a 26 county Ireland this never happened, and most of us reckon it never would, but it's hard to argue when the mere approach of a few Orangemen in a band walking down a street is enough for hundreds of Irishmen to riot and cause absolute chaos.

Well done rioters. You just gave Ian Paisley some serious ammunition.

LookingFor · 26-02-2006 01:17PM

TheGooner wrote:

The point of the Love Ulster march today was to commemerate the loyalists that have died in Northern Ireland during the troubles.

I'll type it again, commemerate the loyalists that have died in Northern Ireland during the troubles. Northern Ireland for christsakes! Why did they feel the need to march in Dublin?

Personally, as a Dubliner, I don't care. So what if they want to do that?

You may care, I may not, but one way or another it doesn't matter if you disagree with what they're saying or not. They still have the right to say it.

TheGooner wrote:

There was one simple reason behind this and have stated as much on there own site, cause trouble and then sit back and watch it unfold.

Isn't it wonderful that "the bhoys" could be so accomodating?

Like I say, if people could just grow up and ignore something like this there'd be no problem in the first place. Obviously there's a line - as I said earlier - but the authorities didn't feel the unionist marchers were crossing that line, and as I understand it they liased with them carefully to ensure the march didn't cross a line. I don't think simply commemerating killed unionists or RUC members is crossing a line. But it isn't up to me to decide anyway - nor is it up to the IRA or its teenaged wannabes - but if I DID want to protest the march, tearing up my own city, attacking our own gardai, terrifying my own neigbours, would not be how I'd go about it.

Terry · 26-02-2006 02:51PM

Civilian_Target wrote:

Everyone's someway bigoted. And they're a hell of a lot less bigoted than the rioters! The fact is, Orange marches are only offensive if you make them offensive - much like a Paddy's day parade they're a display of nationalism -- and people are entitled to display that, it's enshrined in our constitution, it's called tolerance. Obviously tolerance has its limits, such as hate speech, but there was absoultely no reason why the love Ulster march shouldn't have gone ahead. There's exists protestant minority in this country, even if its only a few percent there's no reason why they shouldn't express their culture like anyone else - and a marching band is a much much better display of culture than turning cars over and burning things!

no. what we're talking about here are blatant bigots who insulted the people of Dublin months before they made their way down here. these people hate everything Irish.
you want to talk about intolerance?
how about their intolerance towards everything thisa country stands for. that is what the march was all about. i suggest reading their (hateful) manifesto. it might give you some idea as to how these people think.
i'll say again; both sides were in the wrong.
i will also say, love ulster and their ilk are not welcome here.

ghostdancer · 26-02-2006 03:24PM

SebtheBum wrote:

Well done rioters. You just gave Ian Paisley some serious ammunition.

eh, that's exactly what they wanted!

Repulican Sinn Fein/CIRA are completely against the GFA. they were hoping to destabilise it even more, and they'll probably achieve that.

at least Provisional Sinn Fein had the sense to tell people to stay away because they knew if there were people out it'd upset the peace process. Republican Sinn Fein are against the peace process and have called for it to be abandoned since they formed in 1986. those who were protesting have exactly what they set out to achieve.

arbeitsscheuer · 26-02-2006 04:50PM

ghostdancer wrote:

eh, that's exactly what they wanted!

Repulican Sinn Fein/CIRA are completely against the GFA. they were hoping to destabilise it even more, and they'll probably achieve that.

at least Provisional Sinn Fein had the sense to tell people to stay away because they knew if there were people out it'd upset the peace process. Republican Sinn Fein are against the peace process and have called for it to be abandoned since they formed in 1986. those who were protesting have exactly what they set out to achieve.

Well, if what you say is true, and I'm not saying it isn't, then "those who were protesting" (protesting about what??? For their right to attack Gardai, burn the sh*t out of IRISH property and loot IRISH stores???) were well and truly FCUKING IDIOTS.

Summerjones · 26-02-2006 04:55PM

Definitely not.

AngryBadger · 26-02-2006 05:17PM

It's one thing for Orange men to be parading in the North, since that's where what they're parading for has relevance, but to bring it down south, you're just courting troub le, and to what end? What possibly reason can there be to bring this kind of inflammatory construct down South? Especially given that the rioting that took place was inevitable, and it's only going to galvanise people against the orange men, and therefore against the unionists, (since that's the immediate connection most people will make between the orange men and politics).

That said, the majority of the pictures/footage I've seen showed what appeared to be your run-of-the-mill nackers causing havok. String 'em up. End of discussion.

Johnee · 26-02-2006 07:15PM

People in Ireland seem to want a united Ireland. A united Ireland with Dublin as its capital. If that ever were to happen (and with all the concessions to SF up north, unionists must feel sometimes like they're being frog-marched headlong into it), those marchers would be part of the state, a minority with their own culture and traditions.

Should they be able to celebrate those traditions in a city which nationalists want to make sure becomes their capital?

Well, according to some people apparently not. A lot of people down here seem to like the idea of tolerance, human rights and parity of esteem in the abstract. We're all about tolerating other cultures as long as we dont have to actually do any of the tolerating. Just like we're all about a united Ireland as long as we dont actually have to take any unionists with it.

If that's the level of acceptance and tolerance we're able to show to a set of people who we basically want to subsume into a territory in which we'd be massively dominant, is it any wonder that some of them are just a little bit supicious of how inclusive a brave new Ireland would be?

Reminds me of how self-satisfied we all were about how Ireland wasnt racist as long as there weren't any black people about the place.:rolleyes:

TetsuoHashimoto · 26-02-2006 11:41PM

TheGooner wrote:

The point of the Love Ulster march today was to commemerate the loyalists that have died in Northern Ireland during the troubles.

I'll type it again, commemerate the loyalists that have died in Northern Ireland during the troubles. Northern Ireland for christsakes! Why did they feel the need to march in Dublin?

There was one simple reason behind this and have stated as much on there own site, cause trouble and then sit back and watch it unfold.

I'm disgusted with the Minister for allowing this. I can almost hear Dev spinning in his grave in Glasnevin!!!

All ridiculous rally must be banned - ban pro-Unionist rally, ban pro-IRA rally, ban pro-SinnFein march, ban pro-Orange march - they only promote ethnic and religious division
should this cr-p march have been allowed in the 1st place ?
Would radical BlackPanthers and BLAs be allowed block up the streets of Dallas, Atlanta, Memphis and Austin
Should Neo-Nazis and KluKluxKlan be allowed march though Harlem NYC or south
Yet the counter protest was even worse....the pro-republic, pro-SinnFein, radical Republican-rioters , anti-Unionist or random trouble makers or or Chav-scumbags caused alot of trouble, they burn and smash the capital city
They are the scum and they were not even arrested
Freedom is to march - blocking traffic on every street over-rated !!
too much of anything is bad and freedom to its extreme is like anarchy because nations no longer function due to extreme groups, religious nuts, hippies, radical protestors abusing the freedom we gave them.

All stupid marches must be banned - and McDowell has to resign because he had very little police on the streets, and I didn't see any of those counter-protestors arrested
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~z/today/
photos of scum

arbeitsscheuer · 26-02-2006 11:48PM

TetsuoHashimoto wrote:

I didn't see any of those counter-protestors arrested
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~z/today/
photos of scum

13 last night alone, supposedly gone up to 50 today AFAIK.

Sure they even had 4 or 5 up before the district court last night, which even I was pretty impressed with.

Get your facts straight before you spout off pleez...:rolleyes:

Johnee · 26-02-2006 11:56PM

mfitz wrote:

explain how am i a thick person? and scummy i don't know were you got that from.

Im guessing he's questioning where you get your facts from. Especially your assertion that 'Republicans' attacked only legitimate military targets.

The IRA killed more Catholics in Northern Ireland during the troubles than all the other sides combined (RUC/Army/Loyalists).

How legitimate is that? The brave boyos shooting their own community so they can keep control.

And as for the guy with the Famine numbers? :rolleyes: Ever heard of laissez-faire economics? The Famine was a combination of the blight (which caused significant levels of deaths in countries across Europe in the 1840's) and an economic policy which discounted state intervention. People in Ireland didnt die as the result of some elaborate government plot to kill of the natives.

It's also interesting that arguably the single biggest set of people oppressing the poor through evictions, etc were the Catholic agents who ran the estates for the English landlords.

But lets not get facts get in the way of our fairy-tales, eh?

Endurance Man · 27-02-2006 12:16AM

Good lord :eek: , was at a lan all weekend and just started finding all these threads, i new some people where having a march but didnt think this kinda thing was gonna go down

.
Should we be worried? Is there a danger that this may spark up more violence? I'm not 100% clued up on the history of this fighting but i have the basics of it, thought it was done and dusted tbh

.

agree with the march or not

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