Muslim cartoons...

Boggle · 2006-02-03 12:34:02

This may have been posted before but I was wondering if anyone had a link to these cartoons that are driving the muslim communities mad? Personally I'm kind of confused as to why the Danish PM apologised for it... if it was a cartoon of the pope and Christians complained then no-one would give a sh1t but because it is…

03-02-2006 01:34PM

#1

Boggle

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This may have been posted before but I was wondering if anyone had a link to these cartoons that are driving the muslim communities mad?

Personally I'm kind of confused as to why the Danish PM apologised for it... if it was a cartoon of the pope and Christians complained then no-one would give a sh1t but because it is Muslims they are falling all over themselves to accomodate them.

Is this the reward for terrorism??

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#2 03-02-2006 01:35PM

dudara

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The simple fact is that images of the Prophet are blaspehmous to the muslims.

It's rude of us to print something that offends them. Making fun of religion is not actually fun.

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#3 03-02-2006 01:38PM

HelterSkelter

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Already a discussion on it here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054884016

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#4 03-02-2006 01:38PM

BaZmO*

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dudara wrote:

The simple fact is that images of the Prophet are blaspehmous to the muslims.

It's rude of us to print something that offends them. Making fun of religion is not actually fun.

In your opinion.

The Life of Brian is an absolutely hilarious film.

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#5 03-02-2006 01:41PM

RE*AC*TOR

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BaZmO* wrote:

In your opinion.

The Life of Brian is an absolutely hilarious film.

Agreed. Religion is a great source of humour. Since its all inherently farcical.

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#6 03-02-2006 01:42PM

toffeapple

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Its rude for us to offend them????

who gives a sh!t...I say lets offend them even more

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#7 03-02-2006 01:42PM

Tobias Greeshman

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And if they were blasphemous images of the pope or jesus would they get the same amount of publicity that they're getting now? I doubt it.

The Danish PM may of apologised after Denmark was threatened by suicide bombers/terrorists due to the image about Mohammad.

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#8 03-02-2006 01:42PM

RE*AC*TOR

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by the way the cartoons can be seen here:

http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/

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#9 03-02-2006 01:43PM

dudara

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The Life of Brian is very funny. Let me clarify what I meant.

To Muslims this is blasphemous, it extends beyond just being insulting. We should respect that.

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#10 03-02-2006 01:44PM

Blisterman

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Muslims are boycotting Danish goods. it's crazy. I'm not gonna boycott american goods because Gary Larson drew a cartoon of God at his computer.

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#11 03-02-2006 01:46PM

BaZmO*

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dudara wrote:

The Life of Brian is very funny. Let me clarify what I meant.

To Muslims this is blasphemous, it extends beyond just being insulting. We should respect that.

But the Life of Brian is blasphemous too.

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#12 03-02-2006 01:50PM

Archeron

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It seems odd that you can be offended by the fact that someone will associate your religion with terrorism, then you react by saying its offensive and if apologies arent made you'lll start blowing things up and shooting civilians. Hmmmm....

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#13 03-02-2006 01:50PM

Tobias Greeshman

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BaZmO* wrote:

But the Life of Brian is blasphemous too.

Blasphemous enough for the church to ban it when it came out all those years ago.

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#14 03-02-2006 01:53PM

BaZmO*

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silas wrote:

Blasphemous enough for the church to ban it when it came out all those years ago.

Yeah I know. But you didn't have the English Government issuing an apology.

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#15 03-02-2006 01:54PM

Boggle

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Cheers reactor - I see that they're a little to the point but I don not see a need for burning Danish flags. If they don't like it, then don't buy the paper again.

As for the fact that Europe tolerates this kind of crap from any section of society towards on of our countries reflects poorly on us. Why didn't the Danish PM come out and tell em to fcuk off? The only reason I can think of is that he's afraid of terror attacks.
Is the muslim faith so intrinsically linked with terrorism now that we are actually afraid of them?

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#16 03-02-2006 01:59PM

faceman

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Boggle wrote:

Why didn't the Danish PM come out and tell em to fcuk off? The only reason I can think of is that he's afraid of terror attacks.
Is the muslim faith so intrinsically linked with terrorism now that we are actually afraid of them?

Dont be daft - not all muslims live in the arab world, im sure there are plenty in denmark. Its nothing to do with terror attacks. its double standards if just because most christians cudnt give a toss if u draw a pic of the pope in bed with shirley valentine, doesnt mean u have the rite to diss others. Its called respect.

Granted whatever clown declared a "Day of Anger" in the muslim world, shud be hung by his ghoulies upside down over a pit of savage starving lions.

I dont care what religon u are, whichever God you believe in certainly wudnt approve of a "day of anger" or killing non believers.

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#17 03-02-2006 02:01PM

grumpytrousers

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I could've sworn that on the news last night they said that as far as muslims are concerned the mere portrayal of the prophet in ANY form is seen as being blasphemous. In other words, if - to be facetious - a newspaper ran a feature on 'how the prophet might look today' and put him in the kind of garb that you see ordinary folk in, that would still, by their terms, be inherently blasphemous. They then went on to say that even in mosques, etc, there are no pictures/icons/whatever of the prophet. Can anybody confirm this?

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#18 03-02-2006 02:02PM

HelterSkelter

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Archeron wrote:

It seems odd that you can be offended by the fact that someone will associate your religion with terrorism, then you react by saying its offensive and if apologies arent made you'lll start blowing things up and shooting civilians. Hmmmm....

Do you even know any Muslims? What are they doing about it? I know quite a lot of Muslims, they are annoyed about it but and none of them are threatening to blow things up.

I think this post from the Politics forum sums it up:

We have to get out of the habit of viewing the entire Muslim world as a single entity with a single opinion on everything.

Some Muslims might be mildly pissed off about this, some Muslims might want to run into the Danish embassy with TNT straped to their chest.

There are degrees to which people get annoyed. The media of course is only going to report the most extreme positions because those are the ones that make the news (the gun men surrounding the EU base for example).

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50817496&postcount=67

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#19 03-02-2006 02:03PM

HelterSkelter

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Grumpytrousers, That is true

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4674864.stm

Q&A: Depicting the Prophet Muhammad
Protests have spread across the Muslim world over the publication in Europe of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

The BBC News website looks at why the depictions have caused such offence.

What does the Koran, the holy book of Islam, say on the issue?

There is no specific, or explicit ban on images of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad - be they carved, painted or drawn.

However, chapter 42, verse 11 of the Koran does say: "[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth... [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him."

This is taken by Muslims to mean that Allah cannot be captured in an image by human hand, such is his beauty and grandeur. To attempt such a thing is seen as an insult to Allah.

The same is believed to apply to Muhammad.

Chapter 21, verses 52-54 of the Koran read: "[Abraham] said to his father and his people: 'What are these images to whose worship you cleave?' They said: 'We found our fathers worshipping them.' He said: 'Certainly you have been, you and your fathers, in manifest error.'"

From this arises the Muslim belief that images can give rise to idolatry - that is to say an image, rather than the divine being it symbolises, can become the object of worship and veneration.

What does Islamic tradition say on the matter?

Islamic tradition or Hadith, the stories of the words and actions of Muhammad and his Companions, explicitly prohibits images of Allah, Muhammad and all the major prophets of the Christian and Jewish traditions.

More widely, Islamic tradition has discouraged the figurative depiction of living creatures, especially human beings. Islamic art has therefore tended to be abstract or decorative.

Why is the insult so deeply felt by some Muslims?

Of course, there is the prohibition on images of Muhammad.

But one cartoon, showing the Prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse, extends the caricature of Muslims as terrorists to Muhammad.

In this image, Muslims see a depiction of Islam, its prophet and Muslims in general as terrorists.

This will certainly play into a widespread perception among Muslims across the world that many in the West harbour a hostility towards - or fear of - Islam and Muslims.

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#20 03-02-2006 02:04PM

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BaZmO* wrote:

But the Life of Brian is blasphemous too.

Did christians cause violent riots and blame the English government for letting Monthy Python create it??

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#21 03-02-2006 02:10PM

Asiaprod

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grumpytrousers wrote:

I could've sworn that on the news last night they said that as far as muslims are concerned the mere portrayal of the prophet in ANY form is seen as being blasphemous.

Only to other Muslims

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#22 03-02-2006 02:10PM

Boggle

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But one cartoon, showing the Prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse, extends the caricature of Muslims as terrorists to Muhammad.

No, the actions of Muslims willing to blow themselves up in the name of their faith extends the caricature to mohammed. All the cartoon did was to express this opinion.

Dont be daft - not all muslims live in the arab world, im sure there are plenty in denmark. Its nothing to do with terror attacks. its double standards if just because most christians cudnt give a toss if u draw a pic of the pope in bed with shirley valentine, doesnt mean u have the rite to diss others. Its called respect.

Respect? If the muslims want respect for their religion then perhaps they should revolt about any suicide bombings taken up in their name. The cartoonist expressed his opinions on the current climate which is clearly allowed. You are entitled to dislike it but no more...

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#23 03-02-2006 02:17PM

Wibbs

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faceman wrote:

I dont care what religon u are, whichever God you believe in certainly wudnt approve of a "day of anger" or killing non believers.

You reckon? Maybe you should read some of the Islamic holy books. Killing non believers is all over the place. Instructions to kill Muslims who decide to reject the faith is in black and white too. Check out the old testament too. While it's not quite as bad, it's not that far off. People make too many happy clappy assumptions about a lot of religions and their issues.

As said before, the politics/news media/Islam fora are better places for this though.

Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.

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#24 03-02-2006 02:18PM

Wibbs

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Blisterman wrote:

Muslims are boycotting Danish goods. it's crazy. I'm not gonna boycott american goods because Gary Larson drew a cartoon of God at his computer.

Classic.:D

Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.

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#25 03-02-2006 02:20PM

Hagar

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HelterSkelter wrote:

In this image, Muslims see a depiction of Islam, its prophet and Muslims in general as terrorists.

It's beyond me how such an unfortunate mis-conception could ever have arisen...

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#26 03-02-2006 02:21PM

dudara

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Lots of moderate western muslims are offended by this, never mind the terrorist element. Don't focus in on one section exclusively.

As a previous poster said, it's all about respect.

All this fuss illustrates one point however. It shows how little we know in general about Muslim religion and law. As westeners, we need to learn a little more.

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#27 03-02-2006 02:25PM

mcgarnicle

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Isnt islam about 500 years younger than christianity? What was christianity like 500 years ago, plenty of killing of non believers as far as i know. Just pointing out that all religion is bolox, christians did plenty of bad things back then in the name of their religion and i bet that depictions slagging off the pope 500 years ago would not have gone down too well. As for images of mahomad being blasphemous, there were plenty of civil wars etc in europe which were driven by people pissed off at alot of depictions of jesus and other such idolatry

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#28 03-02-2006 02:27PM

Wibbs

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dudara wrote:

As a previous poster said, it's all about respect.

respect goes both ways and we see precious little flowing our way, for our way of life.

All this fuss illustrates one point however. It shows how little we know in general about Muslim religion and law. As westeners, we need to learn a little more.

True, Knowledge is power and all that. I find it equally interesting that we're the ones who need to learn a little more. That sentiment goes both ways too.

Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.

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#29 03-02-2006 02:29PM

Wibbs

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mcgarnicle wrote:

Isnt islam about 500 years younger than christianity? What was christianity like 500 years ago? Plenty of killing of non believer as far as i know

True, but not explicitly directed by the founder of same. There are historical/cultural/political differences too, between the faiths. We had a reformation for a start. That hasn't happened yet in Islam(some would say the prospect is unlikely due to structure).

PS I reckon the Lion would kick the tigers ass

Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.

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#30 03-02-2006 02:41PM

Tusky

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dudara wrote:

The simple fact is that images of the Prophet are blaspehmous to the muslims.

It's rude of us to print something that offends them. Making fun of religion is not actually fun.

Its rude ? so what. They need to learn to have a sence of humour. They are their beliefs, not ours.

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#31 03-02-2006 02:48PM

lazydaisy

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Wibbs wrote:

respect goes both ways and we see precious little flowing our way, for our way of life.

True, Knowledge is power and all that. I find it equally interesting that we're the ones who need to learn a little more. That sentiment goes both ways too.

It would seem so. Can someone remind me, did we such protests from the Muslim community after 911, Bali, London, and Madrid bombings?

Yet a cartoon can provoke such bahavior as this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4661572.stm

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