Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 04-01-2006 07:59PM

Boggle wrote:

The article I was referring to was in the Metro newspaper

Metro is owned by the UK Daily Mail newspaper - a notoriously racist newspaper...

RoundyMooney · 04-01-2006 08:48PM

Hobbes wrote:

*Shrug* you claim he is was wanted on credit card fraud, fake passport and no insurance on his car.

I had heard that he was questioned in relation to possession of a fake passport, and also in relation to CC fraud. I never said he was either convicted, or still drawing the attention of the gardai on himself.

"Hobbes said: "Because the official statement is that he was never convicted of any crime and was only deported because his Asylum request was denied."

This is of course true.

Roundy said: (prior to this) "...said individual allegedly came to the attention of the Gardai for possession of a fake passport, driving without car insurance, and most tellingly, credit card fraud."

I emphasise allegedly, as aside from visiting my friendly solicitor up in Washington St. and signing an affidavit relating to what I was told, and who told me, I have no legal proof. Newspaper stories (especially from some of the downmarket rags) are little better of course ;-)

Hobbes wrote:

About the only thing I can find is him being stopped and driving a car with no insurance as reported.

Well, that's something...

Hobbes wrote:

Of course I can find loads of similar webboards comments that claim he was doing credit card fraud and fake passports but they are about as believable as your "unnamed source". Oh and the comment you quoted is referring to the Cars for free rumour.

We're in that thread now (too many bloomin' threads around at the minute about this-hope we're not in for a year of it). I quoted you a few times, all in relation to this discussion so you may have your thread mixed up, no biggie...

On a second reading, I don't think we're a million miles away from each others opinion... I apologise for questioning your impartiality...

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 09:27PM

RoundyMooney wrote:

I had heard that he was questioned in relation to possession of a fake passport, and also in relation to CC fraud. I never said he was either convicted, or still drawing the attention of the gardai on himself.

So never convicted. If you are not convicted then you committed no crime yet earlier you were trying to imply that he was taking part in shady deals when this is not the case.

TBH, I could for example ring up the police, tell them that ooh for example that one of my neighbours have fake birth certs for thier children, don't mention who I am. Gardai would have to investigate the issue. They show up asking questions but don't convict, yet hey presto I can say things like "Well the cops were questioning them about fake birth certs".

They would certainly do an investigation if someone was to claim that they were living in the country illegally. I know this because a cousins GF from canada some years back got this. They believe it was because she pissed off the landlord but the cops said it was anonymous tip off she was illegally in the country (she wasn't).

Again from this I could claim well she was never convicted but the police were questioning about her regarding being in the country illegally.

Atrocity · 04-01-2006 10:36PM

I know people who believe that this kind of thing goes on, they seem to be convinced so I always just said, meh whatever.

This thread is good because it will dispel a lot of myths around the whole area and people should stop throwing around the 'you are racist' crap. If rumours like this aren't talked about openly then they only spread and get stronger.

RoundyMooney · 05-01-2006 12:21AM

Hobbes wrote:

If you are not convicted then you committed no crime.

We both know that is not necessarily so.

Your story is interesting on a number of levels.

RoundyMooney · 05-01-2006 12:29AM

Atrocity wrote:

I know people who believe that this kind of thing goes on, they seem to be convinced so I always just said, meh whatever.

This thread is good because it will dispel a lot of myths around the whole area and people should stop throwing around the 'you are racist' crap. If rumours like this aren't talked about openly then they only spread and get stronger.

Well, I never believed the free prams and car hullabaloo tbh. I am curious as to where some of these people (who live in state provided accomodation-so are a/seekers before anyone starts), are receiving an income from if they cannot work, an income which allows them to drive around in battered jap import primeras, and wear nice bling...

Why can't asylum "seekers" work if they wish to? Is there some legal reason I'm aware of?

Why cannot people question policy on admissions to this country without being labelled racist?

Why can 120,000 foreign workers come to our shores and do sterling work in our restaurants, on our roads, in our hospitals and in our pubs-for less than their skills are worth, while a similiar number of Irish "citizens" sit on their arses each day in subsidised housing or trek from pub to bookie like disoriented lemmings?

It isn't just the opportunists from abroad that are riding the gravy train folks, we taught the world how to do it years ago...

ST* · 05-01-2006 12:40AM

Hobbes wrote:

that one of my neighbours have fake birth certs for the children

This is more of a side note Hobbesy - so don't expect linkys.
But > There was a period of time when these EE nationals
moved next door to me, where I made an effort to be friendly.
During this time, the wife herself told me the situation with the kids and the
birth certs. Of course I dont expect you to take my word for it, but I have nothing to gain from lying either.

In my books, no matter what colour the skin everyone deserves a break.
That said, some people do need an eye-opener. Their lack of of luxuries in their country's taught them some mean survival skills, sadly most of which are illegal.

billy the squid · 05-01-2006 12:51AM

RoundyMooney wrote:

Where are you going with this? Accusing me of being an uninformed gossip at best, or a rumour spreading bigot at worst? Heavy reading perhaps, but I suggest you carefully go through what I have posted in this thread.

my comments were about the whole urban ledgend of free cars. not at you. and I still think that the whole "refugees get free cars" rumour should be taken with a bucket load of salt.

miju · 05-01-2006 02:41AM

i've only read the first page and im presuming the next 3 go along the same lines, i worked in the RAC for a whole 2 years when i was in the civil service, i can categorically say that this rumor is the biggest load of tosh i've ever heard

i know exactly all of their entitlements that were due to asylum seekers at the time i worked there and judging by the mindset that the RAC were begining to undertake regarding what asylum seekers initially got i reckon its fairly safe to say that they're pretty much the same now, actually might email a few of the lads in the office in RAC im sure they'd get a laugh outta this :-)

astec123 · 05-01-2006 02:59AM

Do you seriously think that our government would give handouts like this? When is the last time you claimed thousands off the Government for nothing?

Hmm easy one to name, Drivers Licences to Irish people in the back log, and dont say it didnt happen I know many with licences from that wonderous period.

As for this thread it seems all the idiots are out in force.

A race is a distinct population of humans distinguished in some way from other humans. The most widely observed races are those based on skin color, facial features, ancestry, and genetics. Conceptions of race, as well as specific racial groupings, are often controversial due to their impact on social identity hence identity politics.

I am british therefore to call me anything such as a "poxy redcoat" is a racist remark as by being identified as such is racism, however these days racism is hard to mark where a comment starts and racism ends. Also I have had that in this country as it has proved to be the most racist country I have ever been to, unless you happen to be a white male living is a middle class family on modest income you are someone to pick on, I never liked Ireland for this reason, I wish it wasnt that way but it is, so threads like this deserve the bin, it ruins the reputation for the place as people see how racist a lot of people here are in that they post saying I had, I heard yadda yadda yadda, give me proof it happens or forget it.

Sorry rant over just telling it like it is.
BTW not read the entire post. 1 and most of this one is all

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 09:00AM

Shock_treatment wrote:

There was a period of time when these EE nationals
moved next door to me, where I made an effort to be friendly.
During this time, the wife herself told me the situation with the kids and the
birth certs. Of course I dont expect you to take my word for it, but I have nothing to gain from lying either.

I am just curious on one thing. How did she know the birth certs were forged? Did they tell her?

The reason I ask is that birth certs changed some time back. People in the late 20's-30's would have a different birth cert to what you get now.

The new birth certs come on A4 paper also have a large number of anti-forgery protections put into them (watermarks, geosh, microline, anti-photocopying logo, lenslock type protection check). They even contain the algorithm used in Irish currency which means if they are scanned in by most hardware/software it will either not scan or embed a serial code of the machine that scanned it into the picture. I know this because my sons birthcert is like this.

Compare that to say oh my birth cert which is just a long white piece of paper with a bit of embossing on it.

Now if they did have forged birthcerts it would be exceptionally hard to do, and if they could do it (beyond piss poor imitations) the Gardai would like to know as soon as possible.

astec123 wrote:

Hmm easy one to name, Drivers Licences to Irish people in the back log, and dont say it didnt happen I know many with licences from that wonderous period.

Oh it happened alright. There are/were news reports about it, as well as government documents/announcements on it. It was an amnesty given to all drivers waiting. Now find an example where something happened to give free benefits that the government has denied ever happening. Bonus points if the person getting it is an asylum seeker.

MorningStar · 05-01-2006 10:01AM

Hobbes wrote:

They clearly state that in no circumstances do Asylum seekers get car benefits.

Then put it up where and when they siad this. I don't believe it happens but the point is people believe it. The governement have produced nothing contradicting it so they are letting the rumour exist as far as I am concerened.
The lack of action on intergration will destroy this country not the existance of new people. Multi-culturalism has never worked through history as it promotes segragation. Certain cultural traits of are new people are extremely abbrasive to deal with and will cause problems. Just like the Irish were trouble with drinking and fighting.
There are genuine concerns about how we are dealing with imigration and citizenship. The fact by asking a question about a rumour makes people assume racist views shows how extreme liberal views are as dangerous as extreme conservatisim.

Hobbes wrote:

I am just curious on one thing. How did she know the birth certs were forged? Did they tell her?

Even in the bit you quoted he says they told him, "the wife" refers to the mother of the children.

Hobbes wrote:

The reason I ask is that birth certs changed some time back. People in the late 20's-30's would have a different birth cert to what you get now.

Do you want a fake anything? I can get it! Fake birth certs exist with all the new anti fraud stuff. Fake drivers licences are easy to get the same goes for fake tax and insurance.
I already told you FAS had to change policy as birth certs weren't good enough. The Gardai are fully aware of the increased fraud and that Nigerian nationals are heavily involved. THere are new scames directly connected to Nigerian nationals and crack in powder form came from Nigerian gangs who corned the market. It's not about race but lack of proper investigation of people allowed enter this country.

Freelancer · 05-01-2006 10:07AM

MorningStar wrote:

Then put it up where and when they siad this. I don't believe it happens but the point is people believe it.

Come on now, asking the government to issue a press release every time dave down the pub announces authoritively that the reason that theres less swans on the canal is them Romanians are eating 'em would;

A) run the press office ragged.

Give credence to this nonsense.

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 10:37AM

Anyone want offical statement??

http://www.amnesty.ie/content/view/full/764/

bottom of the page.

Ladies and Gents I believe my work here is done!

ST* · 05-01-2006 10:45AM

Hobbes wrote:

How did she know the birth certs were forged? Did they tell her?

Heh? I'm not getting that.. because she knew two of her older kids weren't born here and wanted to claim for them

Hobbes wrote:

The reason I ask is that birth certs changed some time back.
The new birth certs come on A4 paper ... I know this because my sons birthcert is like this.

The A4 versions came in 2-3 years ago, they did in my area anyway, most likely to combat such fraud.The children in question were several years older.

Hobbes wrote:

If they did have forged birthcerts it would be exceptionally hard to do..

To be honest Hobbes, I'm not too well up on how one would
forge a birth cert, stamps and all. again I come in with: why would she lie?
She seemed to think it was quite amusing actually

seamus · 05-01-2006 10:46AM

http://www.amnesty.ie/content/view/full/764/

That's good enough for me tbh.

MorningStar · 05-01-2006 10:50AM

Freelancer wrote:

Come on now, asking the government to issue a press release every time dave down the pub announces authoritively that the reason that theres less swans on the canal is them Romanians are eating 'em would;

A) run the press office ragged.

Give credence to this nonsense.

They do have a policy of intergration and people dedicated to helping it so I expect them to deal with it. The rumor is over 3 years old so it isn't like I am expecting a quick response. This nonsense is belived and with absense of eduction/information what do you expect. Many people do not understand why refugees are given accomadation or what happens so they make it up. I do expect the government to do something about this is it unreasonable to expect the government to actually plan and act so as not to let racial pressures build?

Delboy05 · 05-01-2006 10:59AM

dbnavan wrote:

Anyone want offical statement??

http://www.amnesty.ie/content/view/full/764/

bottom of the page.

Ladies and Gents I believe my work here is done!

oh well, if amnesty say it's true, then it must be so!!!!!! Is this the same Amnesty that ran an expensive poster campaign a few years back with pictures of the Taioseach, Justice Minister and I think Mary Harney as well, practically insinuating that they were racists - the byline as good as saying...donate to us and we'll save you poor simple irish folk from turning into racists like the people in the poster!!!!
Amnesty lost all my respect after that one and they also took quiet a thumping in the national media for it - they practically apologised to the relevant minsiters and the Taoiseach for it.
Let Amnesty stick to the 3rd world where real injustices are taking place.

Now, I made several points earlier in this discussion on asylum and how bogus the whole system is in this country, and how bogus the vast majority of people in the system are. I withdrew from this topic because Hobbes is impossible to discuss anything with - he cannot read nor properly understand points that are made and I have seen this point made by other posters in other topics- it's all links this and links that but if you read a paper you'd know whats going on. As I said there are people in this country who were never happy that it was 90% native - they'll only be happy when 2030 arrives and about 30% of the population is made up of eastern europeam/chinese/african...becuase anything irish = bad, anything foreign = good.

For the record...I do not and have never believed stories about free cars being given to asylum seekers. Storys like that just make muck of people who try to rationally argue that asylum seekers have been bad for this country, have cost us a fortune (at least 0.5billion a year for the last 4 years, lesser amounts for the preceeding years - and this for a max of 30,000-40,000 in total !!!!!!) and are set to cause many problems in years to come e.g. only 2 crack cocaine factories have been found in ireland - 1 in Camden street in a house for asylum seekers paid for by the Eastern Health Board aka the irish taxpayer (nigerians were nabbed for that one), and the other a few months back in a flat in Phibsboro...again nigerians were nabbed for that one.

over and out

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 11:02AM

Shock_treatment wrote:

To be honest Hobbes, I'm not too well up on how one would
forge a birth cert, stamps and all. again I come in with: why would she lie?
She seemed to think it was quite amusing actually

I am curious how she knew they were forged. I am not saying she was lying.

I am also still at a loss why someone who is so upset with crime happening by minorities would not report such a serious crime. People continue to commit crimes because they can get away with them.

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 11:04AM

astec123 wrote:

Also I have had that in this country as it has proved to be the most racist country I have ever been to,

I believe this post to be the most rediculous post ever on boards!!!

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 11:15AM

Delboy05 wrote:

I withdrew from this topic because Hobbes is impossible to discuss anything with - he cannot read nor properly understand points that are made

You used facts from 3 years ago as a basis for your argument today. The more up to date figures pointed out what you were stating was incorrect.

As I said there are people in this country who were never happy that it was 90% native - they'll only be happy when 2030 arrives and about 30% of the population is made up of eastern europeam/chinese/african...becuase anything irish = bad, anything foreign = good.

Again your figure seems off. If anything the amount of asylum seekers is descreaing. Also you talk about Chinese who are mainly students, so they don't even actually live here, yet we take thier money.

have cost us a fortune (at least 0.5billion a year for the last 4 years, lesser amounts for the preceeding years - and this for a max of 30,000-40,000 in total !!!!!!)

That figure seems excessive even by my estimates. That would be mean we are spending 125,000,000 a year on Asylum seekers. I haven't seen any figure even remotely that high. I have seen calls that the current system in Ireland is the most expensive, however the largest portion of cash appears to be skimmed off by Irish people (eg: Accomodation) and on the appeals process.

flat in Phibsboro...again nigerians were nabbed for that one.

There has been quite a drugs trade in Ireland easily longer then my existance on this planet. Are you saying the minorities are stealing our criminals jobs? shocking! :v:

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 11:18AM

meditraitor wrote:

I believe this post to be the most rediculous post ever on boards!!!

There is a UN report on various countries. Not sure if we are the most racist overall but certainly listed as the most racist in relation to the traveller community.

oh well, if amnesty say it's true, then it must be so!!!!!!

Ahh ok.

How about a political party then? http://www.swp.ie/resources/Racism%20in%20Ireland.htm

Or prehaps a government body?
http://oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/seeking_asylum/direct_provision.html

Or maybe a union.
http://www.mandate.ie/News/Oct2002/Refugees%20and%20Asylum%20Seekers%20Metro.htm

Or maybe a Limerick anti-racist site.
http://www.lnar.org/facts_and_myths.htm

How about an independant body?
http://www.nccri.ie/incidents2002.html

Oddly enough the exact same rumour also happened in England. Which is also not true.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/3078601.stm

So please for all that is holy tell me what exactly counts as a site that doesn't lie? Why don't you just ring your local TD and just ask them?

[edit] Before you start refuting the links one by one, that was a 5 second google. If I was bothered enough I could find loads more.

ST* · 05-01-2006 11:25AM

Hobbes wrote:

I am curious how she knew they were forged. I am not saying she was lying

Im not sure that you understood what I mean.
The EE woman told me herself that two of her children were not born here, but claims for them. knowing that you have to submit birth certs for childrens allowance etc, I asked her how she managed that.
She told me that the two children in question had false certs. No one needs to tell her she has false certs, if she knows two of her children arent Irish born.

Hobbes wrote:

I am also still at a loss why someone who is so upset with crime happening by minorities would not report such a serious crime.

I'm not upset about it at all - Im just relieved that they arent camped out next door to me anymore. The last few years has been worthy of
'neighbours from hell'. But yes, I should have reported it.
Oh yes, they arent too keen on giving out new addresses either - my new neighbour opened up a letter that came for them, and the same EE man has been involved in a hit and run it would seem. But maybe I was just wrong about them all along Hobbesy

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 11:32AM

Delboy05 wrote:

I withdrew from this topic because Hobbes is impossible to discuss anything with - he cannot read nor properly understand points that are made and I have seen this point made by other posters in other topics- it's all links this and links that but if you read a paper you'd know whats going on. As I said there are people in this country who were never happy that it was 90% native - they'll only be happy when 2030 arrives and about 30% of the population is made up of eastern europeam/chinese/african...becuase anything irish = bad, anything foreign = good.

this is absolute muck!!! Of anyone that has made statements on this thread that made sense and seemed to be coming from someone who knew what they were on about, its been Hobbes. Most of this discussion is based on hearsay, whereas hobbes had made informed statements, as I have too, this discussion is turning into a joke, people where asked for facts and got them, but still deny them, i feel like if i said grass was green on here, i will always get a smartarse who will say its blue!

Amnestity have no political agenda and never have had.

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 11:35AM

Shock_treatment wrote:

The EE woman told me herself that two of her children were not born here, but claims for them. knowing that you have to submit birth certs for childrens allowance etc, I asked her how she managed that.
She told me that the two children in question had false certs. No one needs to tell her she has false certs, if she knows two of her children arent Irish born.

Ok you have a woman admitting to a crime yet did nothing. How do you know she wasn't bull****ting? Do you not think that Social welfare do not check up on the Birth Certs information? Although if she was an asylum seeker then her children would be logged at the port of entry, so they would know they were not Irish born.

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 11:36AM

dbnavan wrote:

, whereas hobbes had made informed statements,

Like this one below made a few posts above,

There is a UN report on various countries. Not sure if we are the most racist overall but certainly listed as the most racist in relation to the traveller community.

Informed, I dont think so,

Show me this report!

I still say that Ireland is not one of the most racist countries in the world, and anyone who wants to argue this point better come up with something better than, " oh this reports says this, blah blah fing blah"

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 11:37AM

furthermore..... With facts like Asylum seekers are accommodated in full-board accommodation centres across Ireland, and receive 19 Euro per adult per week, and 9.5 Euro per child and child benefit. Discretionary needs payments can also be provided in exceptional circumstances. is it any wonder asylum seekers turn to illegal means 19 euro a week!!! Wouldnt buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee every day, give these people some dignity!

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 11:46AM

meditraitor wrote:

Like this one below made a few posts above,

Informed, I dont think so,

Show me this report!

I still say that Ireland is not one of the most racist countries in the world, and anyone who wants to argue this point better come up with something better than, " oh this reports says this, blah blah fing blah"

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41687.htm

doesnt say we are most racist however it is recorded at un that...

"Societal discrimination and racial violence against immigrants and ethnic minorities, such as Asians and Africans continued to be a growing problem. Racially motivated incidents involved physical violence, intimidation, and verbal slurs, and the majority of incidents of racist violence took place in public places."

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 11:47AM

dbnavan wrote:

furthermore..... With facts like Asylum seekers are accommodated in full-board accommodation centres across Ireland, and receive 19 Euro per adult per week, and 9.5 Euro per child and child benefit. Discretionary needs payments can also be provided in exceptional circumstances. is it any wonder asylum seekers turn to illegal means 19 euro a week!!! Wouldnt buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee every day, give these people some dignity!

This is a very valid point and I would give my support to anything that eases any hardship for asylum seekers, but one thing keeps knawing the back of my head, its something that was brought up earlier in the thread...

Why is it that these "asylum seekers" didnt seek asylum in the countries they passed through on the way to Ireland? EG France , UK, Spain, etc

This one puzzles me?

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 11:50AM

dbnavan wrote:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41687.htm

doesnt say we are most racist however it is recorded at un that...

"Societal discrimination and racial violence against immigrants and ethnic minorities, such as Asians and Africans continued to be a growing problem. Racially motivated incidents involved physical violence, intimidation, and verbal slurs, and the majority of incidents of racist violence took place in public places."

Right so we are agreed? Ireland is not the most racist country in the world!! as suggested by astec123 at the start of the previous page of posts!!

Which is the only reason I posted into this thread.

Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

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