lithuanian's in ireland&crime?

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 01:02PM

connundrum wrote:

I'll revise my earlier post -

In my opinion, Ireland is becoming overly PC - if anyone is seen to single out a certain section of society then they are deemed to be racist or sexist or at least something which ends with ist.

No. The difference is that some people claim that because some of group X do Y that all of group X do Y and do so with no evidence. that is where the 'ist comes in.

"PC brigade" is just a term an anti will use because they are incapable of arging thier position based on facts so they resort to name calling.

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 01:08PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Nice little ref to my previous story from another thread,

Actually I referring to the poster who claimed they knew thier neighbour was using fake birth certs. Btw destroying two caravans and trying to set fire to two more while people are in them based on the actions of one person who lives in the same halting site is not an act of revenge. But keep living that dream.

Tha Gopher · 04-01-2006 01:08PM

Hobbes, in the traveller thread you used made up/used misleading statistics and stories with more holes in them than a block of Swiss cheese to back up your claims (the thread is in Humanities lads, its long but its like a case study of liberal thinking and its utter ignorance for reality, as well as contempt for anyone who stands up to it. As for the story he refers to, it regarded someone who had been ripped off taking revenge on those who did it, I used it to counter claims that an attack on a traveller by a settled person was nearly always purely racist) . You also consistently showed a failure to read other peoples posts correctly and attacked these posters after misreading what they said. You went as far as to initially deny knowledge of a Traveller war raging in Coolock (your area) which has received national news coverage, as well as casting doubt on whether the Dunsink Lane rioters were even travellers.

I dont think you have any right to telling logically thinking people that we cant argue our point.

Now, back on topic, please......

connundrum · 04-01-2006 01:12PM

Hobbes wrote:

No. The difference is that some people claim that because some of group X do Y that all of group X do Y and do so with no evidence. that is where the 'ist comes in.

Seriously? So the example I gave isn't valid? Apart from that, I have seen first hand on many an occasion where Irish people are more than ready to pull out a race card where it wasn't even relevant. My point was that for years we were known as a very racist nation, and now we're over compensating for it big time.

Another example from experience - young black male goes to niteclub door, and he's very intoxicated. He gets refused and starts to walk away no problem, Irish punters smoking outside start to give the doorman lip about how racist that was and that he shouldn't be allowed get away with that "in this day and age", row ensues and Irish punters threaten to call the cops..

Over compensating.

BuffyBot · 04-01-2006 01:14PM

"PC brigade" is just a term an anti will use because they are incapable of arging thier position based on facts so they resort to name calling.

Sure :rolleyes:. If only life was that black and white

Alas, it isn't solely people resorting to "name calling". There are way too many people/idiots ready to jump on any band wagon and condemn whatever the issue may be as racist/discriminatory/ethnically insensitive/sizeist/fascist/whatever-term-fits-ist, which does no-one any favours at all.

And before you get all upset, there are plenty of idiots in all ideological positions - but it's silly to try and say that there isn't a little group of people who could be classed "PC brigade" in existence.

cournioni · 04-01-2006 01:24PM

Bambi wrote:

Did you not have a video camera to record these events? Other witnesses? Why was this not reported by the press? Where's the arrest sheets? I demand the arrest sheets! AH is no longer accepting anecdotal claims in relation to these touchy "race" issues. Your inability to back this up with proof and an irish times supplement shows, you sir, to be a liar and a fascist

First of all, I'm not sure whether you were making a serious post or not there, so I'll answer it seriously...

I'm only going by what I saw on New Years eve, and other times that I have been in town. I don't need to prove it to anyone, I'm just giving an account of what I saw. Personally I couldn't give a shít what the Irish Times shows me to be just because I cannot back this up with "proof".

I know what I saw, and I am not going to let their views on political correctness get in the way of me sharing what I saw with other members on this forum.

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 01:31PM

connundrum wrote:

Another example from experience - young black male goes to niteclub door, and he's very intoxicated. He gets refused and starts to walk away no problem, Irish punters smoking outside start to give the doorman lip about how racist that was and that he shouldn't be allowed get away with that "in this day and age", row ensues and Irish punters threaten to call the cops..

Intresting story and certainly over PC but nothing to do with what I mentioned and I am doubtful such an senario happened. IT also doesn't cover the whole story of what happened. For example what was said to cause the punters to believe it was a racist reason.

The gopher wrote:

Hobbes, in the traveller thread you used made up/used misleading statistics and stories with more holes in them than a block of Swiss cheese to back up your claims (the thread is in Humanities lads,

I made up no statistics. I misread one set and I admitted I did after being pointed out to that fact and in no way invalidated anything else (unless you want to bother research that). You also claimed that after I was speaking to a friend of mine who worked in that area that they were lying yet at the same time accepted the stories of anti people as gospel. Especially when at least 2 anti people were shown to be bull****ting about what they were claiming. I even offered to put you in contact with the person if you wished to confirm the story and I linked to a report to the case work she was on in relation to her time there.

You made the claim that Coolock travellers were raging war. I have heard nothing near me and I have seen nothing on the news either RTE or local papers. I asked you for the source and you have to date yet to supply it.

As for the "Dunsink Lane rioters" you were initially inferring that a traveller representative who was arrested at a peaceful protest was done so because they were rioting. Your wording and totally false. You also inferred based on the news story that travellers were causing stone throwing yet the story in question made no such mention of the connection. Now someone later pointed out they were there and despite no actual proof they were there or not I was willing to accept that.

Now back on topic.

JimmySmith · 04-01-2006 01:44PM

Originally Posted by connundrum
Another example from experience - young black male goes to niteclub door, and he's very intoxicated. He gets refused and starts to walk away no problem, Irish punters smoking outside start to give the doorman lip about how racist that was and that he shouldn't be allowed get away with that "in this day and age", row ensues and Irish punters threaten to call the cops..

I have seen this too.
I have also seen black guy get held down by the cops for spitting at them after they got him for a fight that i saw him start.
Some people came along, saw him being held down and started taking pictures with their phones and threatend to call solicitors and go to the papers about the 2 cops.
Of course these people were not interested in ehat happened before, only that they had a chance to be anti-racists.

Making an issue out of Race when there is none is racist too.

So think twice before you scream 'Racist'.

Dyr · 04-01-2006 02:08PM

Hobbes wrote:

I made up no statistics. I misread one set and I admitted I did after being pointed out to that fact and in no way invalidated anything else (unless you want to bother research that). You also claimed that after I was speaking to a friend of mine who worked in that area that they were lying yet at the same time accepted the stories of anti people as gospel. Especially when at least 2 anti people were shown to be bull****ting about what they were claiming. I even offered to put you in contact with the person if you wished to confirm the story and I linked to a report to the case work she was on in relation to her time there.

.

So, the witness admits to having supplied inaccurate statistics in previous posts and only admitting to it when others found out?

Yet you sir, expect these people (motions to forum masses) to accept your current linkage at face value?

According to government figures, the A&E crisis in dublin has been dramatically reduced. All those patients moaning about spending hours in chairs must be malingerers. Statistics dont lie. Personal experience stands for nothing. Welcome to the internet. if ain't linked it aint there.

:v: <no more questions your honour!

billy the squid · 04-01-2006 02:17PM

sarah lk wrote:

hi
im doing a piece on foreign crime in ireland.lately people have been telling me about of alot of crime in their community here any one know what is happening or put some light on the subject.its bad enough irish people stabbing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your best bet is to write to An Garda Siachana. Phoenix Park, these are the people who keep statistics on these things.

If you are from the Evening Herald. (they seem to do alot of their stories based on internet message boards) then here's a tip. Do some research, go through government and police records. You will not find an accurate answer here.

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 02:23PM

Bambi wrote:

So, the witness admits to having supplied inaccurate statistics in previous posts and only admitting to it when others found out?

I did not supply inaccurate statistics. What I did was misread those statistics. As for only admitting when "found out" I admitted because I wasn't aware I misread them until pointed out.

You are implying that I purposely lied when that isn't the case. However which do you believe is better? Someone who will change thier mind when presented with the facts or someone despite the facts will refuse to accept what is correct?

Yet you sir, expect these people (motions to forum masses) to accept your current linkage at face value?

What linkage are you referring to exactly?

billy the squid · 04-01-2006 02:29PM

Bambi wrote:

So, the witness admits to having supplied inaccurate statistics in previous posts and only admitting to it when others found out?

The link provided was indeed accurate. misreading them was a human error which was rectified on notification. now if you think the link itself was inacurate then prove it.

WhiteWashMan · 04-01-2006 02:39PM

Hobbes wrote:

However which do you believe is better? Someone who will change thier mind when presented with the facts or someone despite the facts will refuse to accept what is correct?

'what is correct?'

thats a strange thing to say.

what is correct? is it what you say and prove with stastics on your side.
or are you talking about what is morally right?

Hobbes wrote:

Or prehaps you can be a bit clearer in what you said.

i think at this stage you have gotten lost in what you are trying to achieve. you are bogged down with petty point scoring instead of trying to educate.

the_menace · 04-01-2006 02:41PM

Hobbes wrote:

I did not supply inaccurate statistics. What I did was misread those statistics. As for only admitting when "found out" I admitted because I wasn't aware I misread them until pointed out.

You are implying that I purposely lied when that isn't the case. However which do you believe is better? Someone who will change thier mind when presented with the facts or someone despite the facts will refuse to accept what is correct?

What linkage are you referring to exactly?

To be honest, I'd just love to know what your point is exactly? We all know a disproportionate number of travellers and scumbags and we can hear and see for ourselves that a less, albeit still disproportionate, number of Eastern Europeans are involved in violent crime and fraud, etc.

I'm not saying I hate all travellers or Eastern Europeans, far from it, we were simply pointing out what we see and hear. To try and beguile us of our own common sense by claiming to be on some kind of higher plane of understanding, to claim that "Oooh, the media just have it in for these people" or to sit around asking for statistics and government reports is, well, childish and idiotic. Life experience is just as tangible. And not just your life experience. You're probably only a kid. :rolleyes:

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 02:49PM

the_menace wrote:

We all know a disproportionate number of travellers and scumbags and we can hear and see for ourselves that a less, albeit still disproportionate, number of Eastern Europeans are involved in violent crime and fraud, etc.

disproportionate to what exactly?

Life experience is just as tangible. And not just your life experience. You're probably only a kid. :rolleyes:

You figured that out from what you "hear and see" ? :rolleyes:

Hagar · 04-01-2006 02:49PM

According to the public profiles Hobbes is 35 and the menace doesn't declare an age.

35 sounds mature enough to me, definitely not "just a kid".

billy the squid · 04-01-2006 02:53PM

the_menace wrote:

To be honest, I'd just love to know what your point is exactly? We all know a disproportionate number of travellers and scumbags and we can hear and see for ourselves that a less, albeit still disproportionate, number of Eastern Europeans are involved in violent crime and fraud, etc.

Or it could be that these are the only ones out of their entire communities that you hear about.

WhiteWashMan · 04-01-2006 03:01PM

billy the squid wrote:

Or it could be that these are the only ones out of their entire communities that you hear about.

and for you this mean what?

Tha Gopher · 04-01-2006 03:01PM

With Hobbes and his ilk EVERYTHING must be backed up with a link. In 05 from what i recall I had 4 seperate dealings in public with members of the travelling community (i dont work in a shop so i wouldnt be serving them, as for actually interacting with them theres a few living round here but its rarely you have any reason to). In one of those I was semi-threatened(no actual threat, but the guy had an aggressive line of questioning), the other conned out of money (whilst very drunk admittedly), the next stuck on a bus with two very smelly travellers who let their kids run riot on the bus. The only one which i wouldnt regard as a bad experience was where my friend, who was severely drunk, jumped on a travellers back down the pub, not aggressively, just messing. The traveller wasnt impressed, and rightly so.

So, my life experience rating of travellers last year was 75% offensive, 25% not.

Now compare that to the fact that I have had TWO bad experiences with the much larger Chinese community in MY ENTIRE LIFE (one an Irish born Chinese skanger, the other an impatient wanker i worked with, and impatience isnt really what we are referring), compared to 3 in 2005 alone with a much smaller community, and I think you get the point we are trying to make.

WhiteWashMan · 04-01-2006 03:12PM

well, i understand where hobbbes is coming from, and to be honest, i think while he is being anal with his linkage etc, thats the way he is.

me, im less interested in details, and more about overviews.

for me, proving a statistic to me is not going to make me change my mind, or make me feel like my own experiences and opinions are less valid.

you guys can bang heads all day long, but i would really like to know what the point is.

is this about being able to call someone a racist, or to defend against being called one? i have lost the plot as to what this about....

IvaBigWun · 04-01-2006 03:32PM

Tbh I think all threads like this belong in Humanities

connundrum · 04-01-2006 03:43PM

The line the thread is taking probably belongs in Humanities, but the OP's origional post is alright where it is.. no?

AARRRGH · 04-01-2006 04:07PM

casanova_kid wrote:

piece for what? sounds a bit racist to me.

Ask any Lithuanian. They'll tell you a lot of male Lithuanians feel they need to be of the gangster type when they get here. It seems to be a big problems quite specifically from Lithuania, so I do not agree on the racist angle.

(Note: I have friends from Lithuania. They told me the above.)

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 04:10PM

IvaBigWun wrote:

Tbh I think all threads like this belong in Humanities

Its broken [wiki]Simu's Law[/wiki] at this stage though.

nesf · 04-01-2006 05:40PM

Hobbes wrote:

Its broken [wiki]Simu's Law[/wiki] at this stage though.

Simu's Law is only a special case of the more general AH Noise to Signal Entropy Law tbh.

the_menace · 04-01-2006 06:03PM

Hobbes wrote:

disproportionate to what

billy the squid wrote:

Or it could be that these are the only ones out of their entire communities that you hear about.

Not so much to do with 'hearing' anything. More the fact that 95% of the experiences I've had with travellers have been negative; generally associated with violence. 99.99% of (what I know to be) non-travelling Irish citizens I meet are fine. That's what I mean by disproportionate.

I think it's hysterical that people can defend the travelling community as a whole when there are so many bad eggs there. Never mind their society-shunning ways. I'm not saying all travellers are bad - I reiterate - a disproportionate number of them are. It's a fact. I know I'm right. I've had so many experiences with them. Simple as that. Really don't know why I'm debating this anymore.

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 06:31PM

the_menace wrote:

Not so much to do with 'hearing' anything. More the fact that 95% of the experiences I've had with travellers have been negative; generally associated with violence. 99.99% of (what I know to be) non-travelling Irish citizens I meet are fine. That's what I mean by disproportionate.

Ahh ok disproportionate to you.

Karl Hungus · 04-01-2006 06:56PM

For the sake of giving the PC brigade something to actually winge about...

o/

That's my Heil Hitler emoticon.

Now, I'm off to marginalize some minorities.

Mina Loy · 04-01-2006 07:12PM

Litcagral wrote:

I suggest that you get some lessons in English structure, grammar and punctuation before writing your "piece".

You are my soul mate:) *is a johnny pedantic pants also* Heheh

nesf · 04-01-2006 08:15PM

Karl Hungus wrote:

Now, I'm off to marginalize some minorities.

Don't forget your pointy stick.

lithuanian's in ireland&crime?

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