lithuanian's in ireland&crime?

casanova_kid · 03-01-2006 09:44PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

n/p - I might get shot down for this, but then again its my view.
Some Eastern Europeans are pre-historic in their ways.

Someone I know has neighbours from East Eur, and the husband mangled the wife over Christmas. He dragged her to the street and beat lumps out of her, the kids are even sporting lumps and bumps. In their view, women are there to be servants to the men, and to have their children. there is still no respect for the female race.
(Yes, I know they all aren't like that)

Allowing such huge volumes of people with completely different cultures into the country and expect it all to go down a treat, is ridiculous.

Needless to say the woman who witnessed it was on to the police, and as far as I know the social services.
Some of them can be barbaric

you know as well as i do domestic abuse is as much an Irish problem aswell.

ST* · 03-01-2006 09:44PM

Hagar wrote:

Unfortunately many an Irish wife and children were beaten by her/their Irish husband/father this Christmas.

:v: Of course there are. not denying that at all, but this thread was supposed to be based on EE crime..

Same answer to you Casa & Ronan

sarah lk · 03-01-2006 09:45PM

ok.lets start again.we have irish scumbags too im very aware of that,just should people be vetted from other countries if they have a dodgy past

Ronan|Raven · 03-01-2006 09:47PM

Of course they should be, but there is no such system in place yet or any plans to do so?

ST* · 03-01-2006 09:47PM

sarah lk wrote:

should people be vetted from other countries if they have a dodgy past

Yes. Why deliberately up the crime rate here.

sarah lk · 03-01-2006 09:50PM

ok,to be honest id like to see honest decent non nationals come here to live and work but not criminals??is that much to ask?

the_menace · 03-01-2006 09:50PM

casanova_kid wrote:

Does that not sound racist to you?

No:

rac·ism
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Could people please stop using the word racist if they don't understand the meaning.

Hagar · 03-01-2006 09:51PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

:v: Of course there are. not denying that at all, but this thread was supposed to be based on EE crime..

Same answer to you Casa & Ronan

I made the point in the interest of balance and fairness. It would be wrong to demonize EEs for behaviour that up to very recently was socially acceptable in this country.
Their apparent involvement in organized/serious crime is another matter altogether.

ST* · 03-01-2006 09:58PM

Hagar wrote:

I made the point in the interest of balance and fairness. Their apparent involvement in organized/serious crime is another matter altogether.

If truly interested in the balance, give the issue the recognition it deserves, in another thread. (not meant in a snotty manner)

Their apparent involvement in org/ser crime is the matter of the thread if I'm not mistaken..

Civilian_Target · 03-01-2006 10:07PM

Meh - I'm you get bad Lithuanian apples sames as you get bad Irish apples. True - you're going to get some opportunists coming over here because theres more money to be had than in Lithuania, but all the Lithuanians I've ever met here have been easy going and great craic, and I only wish I could say that for all the Irish I've met abroad...

zinc · 03-01-2006 10:23PM

casanova_kid wrote:

piece for what? sounds a bit racist to me.

Lol, are we not allowed point out if a ethnic group these days is committing a lot of crime in their host country?

zinc · 03-01-2006 10:24PM

casanova_kid wrote:

Maybe you hear about Eastern Europeans alot more because of the way the media manipulate the facts. If she's gonna base her story on some article from a piece of **** like the 'Sunday World', then it's hardly going to be a fair, properly analysed story.

Why do you assume the facts are being manipulated, because they dont fit your ideal?

Mossy Monk · 03-01-2006 11:35PM

zinc wrote:

Lol, are we not allowed point out if a ethnic group these days is committing a lot of crime in their host country?

apparently not or we will labled with the KKK

RoundyMooney · 04-01-2006 12:01AM

This is a much nicer place than the other thread. It's full of nay saying zealots there as opposed to realists and non prejudiced souls like Hagar, Zinc, and Mossy. (Apologies if I missed anyone.)

[Jackass] · 04-01-2006 01:18AM

I would just like to point out none of my friends are black, eastern european, asian, gay or disabled.

By the logic of this thread i am a racist, a biggot and a loner.

But at least im not a traveller!!

the_menace · 04-01-2006 01:19AM

DubGuy wrote:

I would just like to point out none of my friends are black, eastern european, asian, gay or disabled.

By the logic of this thread i am a racist, a biggot and a loner.

But at least im not a traveller!!

Then why do you live in a caravan?

gaf1983 · 04-01-2006 02:37AM

I think either The Sunday Tribune or The Irish Times had a piece a while back about the high numbers of victims of violent crime among the Lithuanian community.

I suppose a large proportion of the Lithuanians that come over here to work are young single males. Statistics show that this is the population group most likely to commit and be victims of violent crime - for example, the Garda Annual Report for 2004 on page 38 shows that of the 37 murder victims that year, 21 were males aged between 21 and 40 years.

Drinking at home is another factor that can lead to violence - when tempers flare it is much easier to reach for a kitchen knife at home than if you were in a pub. Also, to drink at home is cheaper, so people that do so are likely to get more drunk, and thereby more prone to violence.

billy the squid · 04-01-2006 02:52AM

the_menace wrote:

Then why do you live in a caravan?

maybe he is on holiday.

I'm sure the travelling community can manage without you DubGuy.

Sleepy · 04-01-2006 10:55AM

the_menace wrote:

Syntax?

Now I'm as pedantic as the next man but Litcagral had a fair point:

sarah lk wrote:

hi
im doing a piece on foreign crime in ireland.lately people have been telling me about of alot of crime in their community here any one know what is happening or put some light on the subject.its bad enough irish people stabbing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks shock treatment just in my local papers i have seen countless lituanian and polish in court for stabbing,assualt im not being racist but the amount of it concerns me

One can only assume it's The Sun or the Hedald[sic] that you're "doing" a piece for as one would imagine that any half-decent paper's editorial team require some level of knowledge of (and respect for) grammar from their contributors...

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 11:16AM

zinc wrote:

Lol, are we not allowed point out if a ethnic group these days is committing a lot of crime in their host country?

I agree! Please do point out with actual figures instead of made up bull crap.

connundrum · 04-01-2006 11:37AM

Having just read most of whats gone on, I can only draw two conclusions which have already been mentioned - one is that Ireland is becoming 200% 'overly politically correct' and the other is the FACT that there is an increase in serious violence among the eastern european population resident in Ireland.

If it was found that young men from Cork living in other counties were stabbing each other and causing general mayhem, then it would be reported and no doubt someone would want to do a "piece" on it - would there be any racist claims then?

casanova_kid wrote:

Personally, i've never had any problems with Eastern Europeans.

Personally I've never had a problem with the gangs in Dublin - doesn't mean they don't commit crimes and doesn't mean the crimes shouldn't be reported.

What you've got to see with the Lithuanian and Polish violence is that they are mostly young, male, alone, away from home, prone to heavy drinking and they are constantly up for a game of fisty cuffs - does it remind you of the young Irish men who travelled to the four corners of the earth a while back. They will sort themselves out and intergrate into our society. It'll just take time I guess :v:

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 11:48AM

connundrum wrote:

one is that Ireland is becoming 200% 'overly politically correct' and the other is the FACT that there is an increase in serious violence among the eastern european population resident in Ireland.

I would say the reverse. For starters if there was overly PC crap then this thread would be full of it instead of full of unsubstaniated crap.

Look you want to make a claim fine. But ffs back it up with something more then ancedotes or "my friend said it was true".

If it was found that young men from Cork living in other counties were stabbing each other and causing general mayhem, then it would be reported and no doubt someone would want to do a "piece" on it - would there be any racist claims then?

Apart from the OP grammer/spelling so bad that "writing a piece" is somewhat dubious to begin with, your assertion would imply that the media here would be doing the same. So where is this major influx of news stories? There are none but thats ok because the same anti brigade claim that "The media are not reporting it". :rolleyes:

There is no doubt crime within all ethinic groups but there is no evidence to date that any one group has a higher crime rate in ratio to other groups.

masterK · 04-01-2006 12:22PM

gaf1983 wrote:

I think either The Sunday Tribune or The Irish Times had a piece a while back about the high numbers of victims of violent crime among the Lithuanian community.

It was the Tribune that ran that article, they suggested factors such as the normality of carrying knives combined with the consumption of large amounts of vodka amongst in houses amongst Lithuanians as the contributing factors.

Here is a different article I found from July's tribune:

Lithuanians twice as likely to die violently in Ireland
John Burke

MEMBERS of the Lithuanian immigrant community living in Ireland are more than twice as likely to be the victims of murder and violent death here than they are in their native country, according to figures compiled by the Sunday Tribune.

Lithuanian males, aged between 25 to 30 years old, now represent almost half of all the foreign nationals who have been violently killed in Ireland since the start of 2004. A significant proportion of the Lithuanian victims are workers in unskilled labour.

The annual murder rate in Lithuania, per capita, is 1.13 per 10,000 people. Among the Lithuanian community in Ireland, that rate has now more than doubled to 2.5 per 10,000 over the period since the start of last year.

The most recent Lithuanian man to be killed was fatally stabbed last weekend, following an altercation at a house-party in Clones, Co Monaghan. The man was chased after leaving the house and died following a stab wound to the chest.

Six weeks previously, Robertas Stravinshas was killed at his Wexford home. A 28-yearold fellow national has been charged in relation to Stravinshas' death. Jurijz Princs of Cromwellsfort House, Wexford, was charged with assaulting Stravinshas, causing him harm contrary to Section 3 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997.

Three Lithuanian men were killed last year. Grazudas Strelciunas (36) was found beaten to death in a ditch near Dunboyne, Co Meath, in June 2004.

He had only recently arrived in Ireland. Arunas Gelzinis was found dead in a Wicklow field last August.

Lithuanian national Andrius Zakarauska was stabbed to death at St Joseph's Villas, Dublin, shortly after midnight on 20 November 2004. Fellow national, Sutkus Domotos (22) was charged with assault causing serious harm in relation to Zakarauska's death.

Valerij Makarov (25) (also known as Andris Simonis), who lived with his wife and two children in Lucan, Dublin was convicted last December of the manslaughter of his compatriot Thomas Lukosevicious, of Lucan, on 11 May 2003. Another compatriot, Aldevinias Gudavicious was stabbed by Makarov in the same incident but was not fatally wounded. The killing followed a row over a 50 debt.

Eleven foreign nationals have died violently in the state in the past 18 months, of whom one each came from Poland, Croatia, Slovakia, China and Malawi. A black male whose dismembered body was found in Dublin's Royal Canal last May, and who remains unidentified, was also killed.

Tha Gopher · 04-01-2006 12:33PM

zinc wrote:

Lol, are we not allowed point out if a ethnic group these days is committing a lot of crime in their host country?

No.

*starts petition to have Zinc banned for realis...ahem...i meant racism*

gaf1983 wrote:

I think either The Sunday Tribune or The Irish Times had a piece a while back about the high numbers of victims of violent crime among the Lithuanian community.

I suppose a large proportion of the Lithuanians that come over here to work are young single males. Statistics show that this is the population group most likely to commit and be victims of violent crime - for example, the Garda Annual Report for 2004 on page 38 shows that of the 37 murder victims that year, 21 were males aged between 21 and 40 years.

Drinking at home is another factor that can lead to violence - when tempers flare it is much easier to reach for a kitchen knife at home than if you were in a pub. Also, to drink at home is cheaper, so people that do so are likely to get more drunk, and thereby more prone to violence.

God dammit, ya stole my theory:D

As he says, the reason is that most murder victims are young men. Most immigrants are young, and Id say slightly half men. The Lithuanians here have a higher murder rate than back home because back home the figures take into account the total population, including children and the elderly, who are less often murder victims. Because theyre saving up they do tend to drink in homes, where knives are always available( not that they want to, the E Europeans are huge into dance/rave/hip hop music, they love clubbing, but they can often only treat themselves to it every few weeks) . Its simply that young Lithuanians here are dying in a different type of murder than the Irish- how many times have you heard about Lithuanian gangs shooting out in North Dublin?

tbh if you looked at the amt of Spaniards arrested in the Balerics compared to drunken coked up Irish and Brits Id say you would see an inaccuracy:(

But as said, the PC thing is ridicilous. Some foreigners do commit crime, and ignoring this is harmful to this country. Most of them are grand that Ive met but its hardly the point.

cournioni · 04-01-2006 12:48PM

I don't want to really generalise, but I know that there is alot of Eastern Europeans from around here who cause trouble around town. Most recently, they caused a huge fight in a pub on New Years Eve. I'm not too sure how many arrests were made but I'd say there at least four, with alot of people getting off scott free.

There is also a large number of people from the Phillipines, Brazil and of African origin living in the town, and they don't cause any trouble what so ever. Why? Because they don't go looking for it.

connundrum · 04-01-2006 12:48PM

I'll revise my earlier post -

In my opinion, Ireland is becoming overly PC - if anyone is seen to single out a certain section of society then they are deemed to be racist or sexist or at least something which ends with ist. Young male drivers (of which I am one) feel that they are being discriminated against, when facts prove that young male drivers are more dangerous. Everyone wants to be a victim, and if they can't be the victim then they want to try to save someone who they feel are being victimised ie. Eastern Europeans

Maybe there isn't an increase in violence among lithuanians - maybe its just that the media are reprting it more. I'm more than happy to accept that theory if its true.

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 12:53PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

The Lithuanians here have a higher murder rate than back home because back home the figures take into account the total population, including children and the elderly, who are less often murder victims.

If they are not murder victims then why would the be factored into a report concerning people murdered?

how many times have you heard about Lithuanian gangs shooting out in North Dublin?

None.

Some foreigners do commit crime, and ignoring this is harmful to this country. Most of them are grand that Ive met but its hardly the point.

Ignoring crime is harmful to the country. So it makes me wonder why quite a few claiming they know about crimes refuse to report them.

Dyr · 04-01-2006 12:56PM

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I don't want to really generalise, but I know that there is alot of Eastern Europeans from around here who cause trouble around town. Most recently, they caused a huge fight in a pub on New Years Eve. I'm not too sure how many arrests were made but I'd say there at least four, with alot of people getting off scott free.

.

Did you not have a video camera to record these events? Other witnesses? Why was this not reported by the press? Where's the arrest sheets? I demand the arrest sheets! AH is no longer accepting anecdotal claims in relation to these touchy "race" issues. Your inability to back this up with proof and an irish times supplement shows, you sir, to be a liar and a fascist

:v: < yizzil believe knacks ate my hamster though

but knacks will do anything pakthingey

Tha Gopher · 04-01-2006 12:58PM

"The annual murder rate in Lithuania, per capita, is 1.13 per 10,000 people. Among the Lithuanian community in Ireland, that rate has now more than doubled to 2.5 per 10,000 over the period since the start of last year."

Oh for christ sakes Hobbes......

The Lithuanian murder rate is 1.13 per 10,000. Now, that sample 10,000 wil include the, lets just assume, 10% of Lithuanians over 65 and the maybe 22% under 15. However these two groups in Lithuania, if its roughly the same as Ireland, will have a very low rate of murders.

The difference is, most Lithuanians here are adult males in their 20s/30s. Thats why the rate is twice as high, coupled with the fact more Lithuanians here drink at home than back in the homeland, where as I said the going out drinking culture is quite popular, and much cheaper.

Nice little ref to my previous story from another thread, you cant just let it die

FAO Hobbes only- the story was told to show not all attacks on Travellers are motivated by racial prejudice. Now this is completely off topic, if you still want to argue it stick it to PM.

cournioni · 04-01-2006 12:58PM

connundrum wrote:

I'll revise my earlier post -

In my opinion, Ireland is becoming overly PC - if anyone is seen to single out a certain section of society then they are deemed to be racist or sexist or at least something which ends with ist. Young male drivers (of which I am one) feel that they are being discriminated against, when facts prove that young male drivers are more dangerous. Everyone wants to be a victim, and if they can't be the victim then they want to try to save someone who they feel are being victimised ie. Eastern Europeans

Maybe there isn't an increase in violence among lithuanians - maybe its just that the media are reprting it more. I'm more than happy to accept that theory if its true.

I totally agree.

lithuanian's in ireland&crime?

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