Non-religious couples getting married in a chuch. Why?

savoyard · 11-10-2005 12:39PM

Women who get married in registry offices still buy expensive white dresses you know! Getting married in a registry office doesn't mean you can't have the whole white wedding thing, that you have to have a small and reserved affair. (and they wonder why irish couples don't consider registry offices :rolleyes: )

Personally, i think there is a big difference between someone who was brought up in a faith - whether it is Catholic or Jewish - getting married in his/her culture's way, whether they still practice or not - and someone who has no ties whatsoever to a church or synagogue deciding they want to do it.

And hey! there's plenty of room for hypocrites in the catholic church. I don't loose too much sleep over it.

MorningStar · 11-10-2005 12:44PM

Sleepy wrote:

Not if your bethrothed was Jewish...

Not true if you don't practice the faith your self. Both parties have to believe in the cermony but as I said "didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?"
It is about belief and respect for others of a faith.
To paraphrase from "Fiddler on the Roof".
"If a fish and a bird were to marry where would the wedding be it can't be in the nest or in the lake"
"!We'll make our own world daddy"

Branoic · 11-10-2005 12:49PM

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs.

Uhhh.....if they don't know that you actually don't care all that much about the catholic aspects of the vows then they can't be insulted.

Im getting married next year in a church and im not religious. But both sets of parents are, and don't even mention the grandparents and what their idea of a real wedding is! I'd rather risk pissing off a God i dont believe in anyway than dealing with that sort of family hassle.

Like it or not, as much as couples getting married like think of it as "our day" - its not just that, its also a huge day for both families, especially the parents, and as such a church is more than likely the venue of choice.

Because I'm not religious, does that mean I shouldn't attend the funeral of my parents when they die? Because taking part in the funeral prayers would be "hypocritical"? Does it also mean I myself can't have a funeral, so that those of my friends and family who are religious can (hopefully!) mourn my tragic death?

Dades · 11-10-2005 12:54PM

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

Nobody seemed too insulted last June when I did it.

The opposite in fact.

Blondie86Star · 11-10-2005 12:55PM

I wanat to elope when I get married, go away to the Carribean and get married on a beach.
Your families aren't marrying each other, it's you and your partner.
But if my finacé was religious I would get married in a church

Hydroquinone · 11-10-2005 01:05PM

savoyard wrote:

Women who get married in registry offices still buy expensive white dresses you know! Getting married in a registry office doesn't mean you can't have the whole white wedding thing, that you have to have a small and reserved affair. (and they wonder why irish couples don't consider registry offices :rolleyes: )

Do they indeed? Fair enough, I suppose, rolly eye person.

But I would say even if they do, that the number who get married in an Irish registry office and do not wear a big white dress is far, far more than the number who get married in an Irish church without a big white dress.
As I say I've never been to a registry office wedding in Ireland, but if you have, then fair enough.

monkeyfudge · 11-10-2005 01:13PM

MorningStar wrote:

Would you think it would offend the Jewish faith if you had a Jewish wedding and didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?

You've got to admit that is pretty cool though.

I'm an atheist myself, so I'd much rather go for the registry office. But it really isn't the nicest of places. Last time I was in there they had the Magna Carta hanging on the wall and shelves full of books about the Laws of England.

savoyard · 11-10-2005 01:17PM

This is the thing H - in general registry weddings in Ireland are thought of being small, embarrassed affairs. That's why so many Irish people don't bother with them and get married in a church they no longer go to. The older generation think there's something shameful about them - you're doing it because you aren't allowed get married in a church because you're divorced, or you're embarrased to invite the neighbours. It's silly, but it is a big reason for the whole hyprocrisy bit and why most of us took the easy way out and did it in a church. There's no real accepted alternative to a church wedding in Ireland.

I've been to lavish white civil weddings - but not in Ireland I admit. In fact, I don't think I know anyone whose got married in an Irish registry office - they've gone abroad for a civil ceremony.

abakan · 11-10-2005 01:27PM

[QUOTE=MorningStar She lives in the US

She now says she will look for a different religion. It will be Christian based but not Catholic.

[/QUOTE]

haha thats funny, i think she bought into that American attitude, sure why doent she make up her own religion, like Mel Gibson and all these rich fruit cakes - she cant do any wrong then.

As with the religion aspect with weddings - Ill have to get married in a church - havent set foot in one in I dont know how long, but i will be shot if i didn have it in one - the parent and elders would look down it me if they did

cooker3 · 11-10-2005 01:44PM

Branoic wrote:

Uhhh.....if they don't know that you actually don't care all that much about the catholic aspects of the vows then they can't be insulted.

Im getting married next year in a church and im not religious. But both sets of parents are, and don't even mention the grandparents and what their idea of a real wedding is! I'd rather risk pissing off a God i dont believe in anyway than dealing with that sort of family hassle.

Like it or not, as much as couples getting married like think of it as "our day" - its not just that, its also a huge day for both families, especially the parents, and as such a church is more than likely the venue of choice.

Because I'm not religious, does that mean I shouldn't attend the funeral of my parents when they die? Because taking part in the funeral prayers would be "hypocritical"? Does it also mean I myself can't have a funeral, so that those of my friends and family who are religious can (hopefully!) mourn my tragic death?

No this is differant as when someone has a funeral in a church thats there choice, if they are cathloic and wanted to go out like that then I will attend and pay me respects but when/if I have a wedding the its my choice and therefore would be highly hyprocritical

Branoic · 11-10-2005 02:19PM

cooker3 wrote:

No this is differant as when someone has a funeral in a church thats there choice, if they are cathloic and wanted to go out like that then I will attend and pay me respects

But the second part of my "funeral" point was that when *I* die i'll be having a regular funeral. Why? For the benefit of those who wish to mourn me in their religious way. Likewise, the church wedding is for the benefit of those who want to celibrate my wedding in their way. Since I don't care where I have the wedding, why not make lots of people happy and have it in a church?

cooker3 wrote:

but when/if I have a wedding the its my choice and therefore would be highly hyprocritical

Ha! Try saying that when you're actually planning a wedding. My fiancee and I started with the exact same opinion as that. Originally we were going to get married in Italy (because she has always loved Italy) on a beach or the grounds of medieval castle or villa, and there was only going to be about 20 guests.

But pretty soon we compromised with our families and now we're having it in a small medieval chapel in a village north of Florence, with about 40 - 50 guests.

That suits me fine. Like I said above - since i dont care if its in a church or not, why not go with the venue that makes the most people happy?

People can argue that its only the opinions of the couple that matter and the wishes of the families don't come in to it - but that's bullsh*t. Of course you want the wedding that YOU want, and you want as little involvement from interfering mother-in-laws as possible. But on the other hand its a big event for you and your families, and you do want everyone to be happy, so their opinions do matter.

As Darth Sidious would say had he been married - "Never underestimate the power of a disapproving mother-in-law"

Duckjob · 11-10-2005 03:10PM

Personally, it never ceases to amaze me how many people seem to attach more importance to a one-day wedding than to the life-long marraige that supposedly comes afterward. It's like they're more in love with the wedding than the person they're marrying.

WhiteWashMan · 11-10-2005 03:18PM

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

Would you think it would offend the Jewish faith if you had a Jewish wedding and didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?

im not sure how you made the jump from live and let live to insulting a religion.

id also be of the live and let live attitude. why do people get hot under the collar just because someone doesnt attend mass, and yet has an opinion on it?

who cares what other people believe in, and how they go about doing it.

after ll, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, so i dont think that anyone here really has the right to comment on anyone elses involvement or lack of involvement in wedding ceremonies, or religious ceremonies in general.

i cant recall the exact quote now, but i will try and paraphrase 'those who are strong in their own faith, dont need to pick holes in others'.

for me, i translate that, look after yourself, and stop worrying about what other people think, and why....

Branoic · 11-10-2005 03:35PM

Exactly, WhiteWashMan.

And I'd just like to come back what MorningStar said:

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

You've got it backwards, mate. The vast majority of non-religious people who get married in a church, like me, are doing it precisely *because* they have respect for people's beliefs.

If I wanted to get married in a church because it looks pretty, but my parents were very religious and thought this was hypocritical and insulting and would be happier if I didn't get married in a church - then I would be offending them. But that's not the case.

But the guests at my wedding actually *want* me to get married in a church. I originally wasn't going to - but my parents weren't happy with that. Thus by getting married in a church I'm not actually offending anyone who matters. After all, I don't know you and you're not coming to the wedding, so whether you're offended or not by what I do makes very little difference.

MorningStar · 11-10-2005 04:05PM

abakan wrote:

haha thats funny, i think she bought into that American attitude, sure why doent she make up her own religion, like Mel Gibson and all these rich fruit cakes - she cant do any wrong then.

No she didn't like signing a piece of paper that suggests her brother will burn in hell because of his sexual preference. Actually respecting the catholic church is the reason she no longer wants to be a memeber. Religions are not democracies you follow the rules or leave. A la carte doesn't come into it.

The Atheist wrote:

Nobody seemed too insulted last June when I did it.

The opposite in fact.

Just becasue people don't know you are insulting them doesn't mean you didn't do it.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

im not sure how you made the jump from live and let live to insulting a religion.

Going into a church and making a mockary of one of it's most sacred rituals is an insult. You would not be letting people letting people live if you are interferring in their religion that you don't belive. Very simple. I don't care about your beliefs but I care when it effects others religions. I don't belive in organised religion but I belive in the the right and defend it. I will not mock other beliefs or pretend to believe for a "nice day out".

WhiteWashMan · 11-10-2005 04:26PM

MorningStar wrote:

Going into a church and making a mockary of one of it's most sacred rituals is an insult.

actually, i dont see it as making a mockery of anyones beliefs. if i went into a church dressed up as a devil with a red pitchfork, then i reckon youd have a good case against me, but if one of the people getting married is a catholic, and thats they way they want to get married, then i dont see why non catholics cant respect that and go along with it?

in fact, i recently had this arguement, and it was a very loud screaming argument (they were screaming at me, i was in too much shock to reply) that because i was asked to be a god father to a baby and go through the religious ceremony, i was making a mockery of that religion, and of those people.
i argued that neither of the parents were religious, one is a protestant by birth, and if their church are willing to let them go through the tradition of celebrating a baptism of a baby in a church, then whats the problem?

i certainly didnt make any jokes about it, and i only did it because it was the families way of showing that they love me and want me as part of their family. i was the best man at the wedding, in a church, and they were just including me in their family life again.

now, if the church has a problem with this, then its up to them to say 'no, stop'. but just because im not catholic, does this mean that any dealings i have to do with an organised religion is going to be automatically a mockery, simply because i dont follow that faith?

i dont think so. and thats the argument of so many people.

youre not x religion, so you cant have an opinion or anything that you do will be stupid becuase you dont understand it

actually, no. im not catholic, but i understand it. im not stupid. i dont agree with many parts of catholisism, but i recognise organised religion, and i recognise its importance in society. even if other people here make fun of it. i could argue and debate all day either for or against it, but thats neither here nor there.

the fact of the matter is that taking part in something that you are not directly involved in , in the long term is not a mockery. its intolerance in other people that start people thowing around terms like that.

MorningStar wrote:

I don't care about your beliefs but I care when it effects others religions. I don't belive in organised religion but I belive in the the right and defend it. I will not mock other beliefs or pretend to believe for a "nice day out".

well, thats your interpretation to it. personally i view it as very simplistic and narrow, but there you go. and why you have so much time to worry about things that are any of your business, i have no idea. it appears you do feel very strongly about it.

by the way, when you say you dont believe in organised religion, i take it you mean in the siritual way, as opposed to the actuallity of it?

i would find it hard to defend something that i dont actually believe in tbh.

RainyDay · 11-10-2005 04:47PM

We got married in a Catholic church because the missus wanted to walk down a big long aisle in a big long dress. We baptised our daughter in a Catholic church because that's what it takes to get into the local school.

I'm not religious in any way.

dent · 11-10-2005 04:48PM

Zebra3 wrote:

Yet they still get married in a church, and while making the most important promises of their lives (wedding vows), lie blatanly about bringing their kids up as Catholics and their 'devotion' or something like that to God and the church. To me, this demeans their vows and all the sincerity of the day and their future.

Why do people do this?

Does anyone else apart from me think this is bizarre?

Two friends of mine recently got married and I felt that the lie they told on the alter was no way to start a marriage.

They had ridiculed me in the past for my Christian beliefs and I thought it was pure hypocrisy for them to get married in a Catholic church.

the_syco · 11-10-2005 05:02PM

Meh. If you get married in the church, it satisfies both families, and also is more legal. By "more legal", I mean they get more rights, if one of them die's, etc.

Some people do it just to please the parents, I'd say.

WhiteWashMan · 11-10-2005 05:17PM

the_syco wrote:

Meh. If you get married in the church, it satisfies both families, and also is more legal. By "more legal", I mean they get more rights, if one of them die's, etc.

you get more rights if you get married in a church than if you get married somewhere else?

Ann Elk · 11-10-2005 06:46PM

Im gtting married in December in a church. I have no strong affiliation to any established religion ad I thing that the Roman Catholic Church is by and large a hypocritical organisation. That said, I know three priests who are as genuine a bunch as you will ever meet. They are aware of the hypocrasy contained in some of the church's teachings, and personally disagree with some of its doctrines - but they strive for the attainment of that which is fundamental to the religion itself - the furtherance of a fellowship of man based on tolerance, understanding and forgiveness. For me, that is what the church should be about.

If the only ones who should go to church are those who follow every guidline of it'd teachings to the letter the churches would be empty. To those who are outraged by the fact that some people who are not religious could have the audacity to get married in the church - I baulk at your hypocrasy. Not being willing to accept that others may wish to change their views, or may have a slightly different view on how to live a good life is against that which you claim to live for. Is not the house of your father supposed to be a place of welcome. How quickly you forget the prodigal son.

Branoic · 11-10-2005 07:48PM

Ann Elk wrote:

Im gtting married in December in a church. I have no strong affiliation to any established religion ad I thing that the Roman Catholic Church is by and large a hypocritical organisation. That said, I know three priests who are as genuine a bunch as you will ever meet. They are aware of the hypocrasy contained in some of the church's teachings, and personally disagree with some of its doctrines - but they strive for the attainment of that which is fundamental to the religion itself - the furtherance of a fellowship of man based on tolerance, understanding and forgiveness. For me, that is what the church should be about.

If the only ones who should go to church are those who follow every guidline of it'd teachings to the letter the churches would be empty. To those who are outraged by the fact that some people who are not religious could have the audacity to get married in the church - I baulk at your hypocrasy. Not being willing to accept that others may wish to change their views, or may have a slightly different view on how to live a good life is against that which you claim to live for. Is not the house of your father supposed to be a place of welcome. How quickly you forget the prodigal son.

Here here! Well said.

DoctorEdgeWild · 11-10-2005 08:05PM

dent wrote:

Two friends of mine recently got married and I felt that the lie they told on the alter was no way to start a marriage.

Gotta agree with that - To start off something with a string of lies is surely no way to start.

If someone wants to do the whole sham of a wedding then that's their business and they can do whatever they like but for me, I'd rather not begin something which is in reality a 'bond of trust' with a lie.

CathyMoran · 11-10-2005 08:21PM

I would want to get married in a church, while I am a liberal practicing Catholic (who is from a mixed background of Catholic, Church of Ireland and Jewish) I do not see any problem with non-religious people getting married in a church. It may be part of their heritage, dreams from childhood etc. but by going through with the ceremony you are getting back in contact for a while with the church - some of it has changed and if one or two decide to go back then...either way it is the church of the people for the people.

Branoic · 11-10-2005 09:32PM

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

Gotta agree with that - To start off something with a string of lies is surely no way to start.

If someone wants to do the whole sham of a wedding then that's their business and they can do whatever they like but for me, I'd rather not begin something which is in reality a 'bond of trust' with a lie.

Oh please. That's laughable. The "bond of trust" is between the two people getting married - not with an organisation which is itself, as was pointed out above, rife with hypocracy.

Aluding to the doomed future of the marriage on the basis that the bride and groom don't really mean what they say regarding their loyalty to the church is nonsense. The vows they make to each other are what matter - to love and honour each other until death. Those vows are just as meaningful and significant whether they said by devout catholics in a church, irreligious catholics in a church, or people in a registry office.

The wedding vows that couples make to each other are in no way affected by their faith or lack thereof in the Church.

DoctorEdgeWild · 11-10-2005 09:53PM

I think we're actually in agreement mate. The bond of trust is between the two people and is nothing to do with the premises they are in. However, the wording of a Catholic ceremony contains references to God and his mates etc. Surely two people in a registry office saying that they love each other and wanna spend their life together is more meaningful that two people in a church saying that they will be together in the eyes of someone they don't believe in.

Maybe I'm not all that articulate in relation to my point which is - A marriage is surely about the two people involved in the marriage and nobody else comes into the equation. Not the parents, friends, priest or anyone else.

I just think that lying as you get married can't be the best way to begin married life.

I'm not Catholic so if I get married it'll be in a registry office and then on to a party to celebrate afterwards. Not under the eyes of a homophobic organisation but under the eyes of, and under the tables with, my mates.

Zebra3 · 11-10-2005 10:06PM

It really amazes me the amount of people here who got married in a church to keep their parents happy.

Are people (at the age of getting married) still afraid to stand up to their parents? :rolleyes:

Do they not realise it's their wedding and not their parents/grandparents etc?

OfflerCrocGod · 11-10-2005 10:43PM

Social Inertia.

grumpytrousers · 11-10-2005 11:18PM

the_syco wrote:

Meh. If you get married in the church, it satisfies both families, and also is more legal. By "more legal", I mean they get more rights, if one of them die's, etc.

Some people do it just to please the parents, I'd say.

how does that work then...the "more rights" thing?!?!?

nesf · 12-10-2005 12:09AM

Zebra3 wrote:

It really amazes me the amount of people here who got married in a church to keep their parents happy.

Are people (at the age of getting married) still afraid to stand up to their parents? :rolleyes:

Do they not realise it's their wedding and not their parents/grandparents etc?

But, is it wrong to want to make them happy?

Personally, I wouldn't have an issue being married in a church. The main reason I'd do it would be because it would make people close to me happy. The big day is not just for me and my partner but for my family also. I'm not a religious person, well, more accurately, I don't agree with organised religion and prefer to just lead a good life. As is my choice.

Perhaps it's old fashioned or traditionalist but I do feel I owe it to my parents to respect them and make them happy in this regard. They are devout Catholics and would definitely be unhappy with a registry wedding (note: they wouldn't oppose it, they would just be dissapointed). They would also happily contribute to the cost of a wedding. They would hold the view that the expense of such is not just the couple's responsibility.

In my family at least, a wedding is very much a family thing. Then again, this is quite a traditional viewpoint so I can understand other's not holding it.

Non-religious couples getting married in a chuch. Why?

Comments