Non-religious couples getting married in a chuch. Why?

Zebra3

As someone who is now in their early thirties but still single, a number of my friends over the last couple of years have got married. All raised as Catholics but who couldn't give a toss about religion. Yet they still get married in a church, and while making the most important promises of their lives (wedding vows), lie blatanly about bringing their kids up as Catholics and their 'devotion' or something like that to God and the church. To me, this demeans their vows and all the sincerity of the day and their future.

Why do people do this?

Does anyone else apart from me think this is bizarre?

PS: And no, I never asked any of them because I didn't want to be accused of 'dumping' on their big day.

Cabaal

they want to make their parents happy?
or maybe its because its the "normal" thing to do

It only demeans their vows if they believe in religion imho, their still married in the eye's of the state and everyone got their "big" day out

Dub13

fairytale wedding and all that crap.......I got married in Orlando much better option,for me anyway

Bard

Eh... I've no particularly strong belief in religion. I don't go to mass and neither does my partner.

... but when we marry, we'll marry in a church. Why? Because it's the expected thing to do - it's the traditional thing to do. And when we make the vows to bring our children up in a catholic way we will most certainly not be lying. We'll bring them up in a catholic way and then leave it up to them when they get older.

MorningStar

It has to be the family pressure and dream wedding aspect.
My sister did it for this and was planing to bring up her kids as Catholic but is having some problems now. She lives in the US and the church there is requesting people sign something aboutthe wrongs of being gay!
My sisters has reservations to say the least about this. She now says she will look for a different religion. It will be Christian based but not Catholic.
It sounds weird to chose a religion but it makes sense if there is choice. I don't see much choice here in the same way. Not saying there is no choice but there are 4 churches in my sisters town and they are different religions. Now the US has a lot of religions.

lostexpectation

not a big fan of religion and generally think the OP original thing to dead right, but to my surprise most people in Ireland still believe in God,
but maybe imho not the Roman catholic church, so i don't know how many options there are for church weddings in Ireland?

ferdi

i'm not a fan of non-religious people getting hitced in a church, its obviously total hypocrisy. it also smacks of total disrespect for the church, faith and real believers. fair enough, you dont believe in it (neither do i) but using an institution like this to fulfil your hollow wishes to have a fairytale day out is a bit sickening. plus the bride will probably be in a big white dress even though shes been round the block more times than the postman. :rolleyes:

Dades

ferdi wrote:

i'm not a fan of non-religious people getting hitced in a church, its obviously total hypocrisy. it also smacks of total disrespect for the church, faith and real believers.

I got married in a church this year for the real believers. Did it for the missis, and for both sets of parents. To refuse because of supposed "hypocrisy" would have served no purpose, and only ruined a lot of people's day.

Nightwish

I'm not religious but my paernts are so I'll be getting married in a church. I don't mind though, its traditional. I believe in the vows I'll be making to my husband but I've no interest in the God thing. But anyway, the priest doesnt have to know this!

seamus

Because women have been dreaming of their weddings since they were 4 years old, and back then they were Catholic.

Simple as.

Sleepy

I want nothing to do with a traditional Irish wedding. I abhor the church, I reckon spending €30k on a single day is ridiculous/disgusting (especially since ye could take a year long honeymoon in Asia on that kind of money, or better yet save a number of lives with it) and I'm not particularly sure that getting your respective families drunk is the best way to bond you with your partner.

However, all that said. I realise that a large amount of Irish women have had their wedding day planned since the age of 6 and that nothing else will make them happy. So, being an Irish man, I'm sure I'll go along with it if any future wife (jebus save her!) wants the big church wedding to make her happy because that's what you do for people you love. And I suspect, that's the reason most Irish people still go for the "big day out" in a chuch: it's a chance for the woman to be a princess for a day and us Irish men are such saps that we're okay about blowing thirty grand to give her that day... :rolleyes:

The_Bullman

Isn't there only 2 ways to get married in Ireland. Either the church or the registry office?

And the registry office doesn't have a great appeal to it from a romantic/ideal point of view

~Leanne~

I know that when i get married i will go to a registery office. I will just have a few close family members and that night a party somewhere for friends etc.
People who pay 30k for weddings need thier heads examined!
Personally i think the majority of young people getting married in a church is to please thier parents as such.
Also is it true that you HAVE to attend a marriage course before you get married in the church or is that optional???

koneko

I agree with the first paragraph in Sleepy's post. If I get married, it sure as hell isn't going to be anywhere near a church.

You're getting married to eachother, I don't believe in having a big expensive church-wedding just to make everyone else happy and give them a nice day, because it's what they expect. It's not their wedding day.

Then again, I'm not Irish, and I've never been a catholic, so my background is different.

Pigman II

Personally I think if you go for a church wedding then you should have to give a % of all your future earnings to that church/religion (scientology style). Otherwise you're just being a hypocrite .... and of course possibly still are under this proposed arrangement .... but it seems fairer anyway.

ferdi

yeah we're getting on to a new topic here - the amount or money people spend on their weddings. its totally obsene dropping 10k+ on a wedding. typical irish attitude - the more money i spend, the better it will be. if ye have that type of dosh to throw around, take a holiday somewhere cheap with your betrothed fo a year and find out if you could actually endure a lifetime with them.

Maccattack

We got engaged on the weekend and i can tell you now. there is no way we will get married in one of those musty old pits.

i could not imagine how depressing it would be to have one of those crusty fantasy believing old farts presiding over the most important day of my life, preaching about how we should live our lives. get real! I'd be in stitches anyway.

Neither would i be able to live with myself if i handed money over to them. I couldn't live with myself, knowing i supported the most arcane, soul destroying enterprises ever devised by the human mind.

No, we will do it OUR way with the people WE want to be there. Those who have supported us and stuck by us over the tough years.

Everyone else and every religous institution will not be welcome.

We wont even be doing it in Ireland - under Irish law - no thanks.

MorningStar

The_Bullman wrote:

Isn't there only 2 ways to get married in Ireland. Either the church or the registry office?

And the registry office doesn't have a great appeal to it from a romantic/ideal point of view

No they changed the law either last year or early this year not sure. Anyway you can now get married where you like if you can get the redistra to agree AFAIK.

I married in Vegas by Elvis which I think is really the only traditional wedding that she was getting out of me.

ferdi

Maccattack wrote:

We got engaged on the weekend.

yay! congrats.

skywalker_208

Pigman II wrote:

Personally I think if you go for a church wedding then you should have to give a % of all your future earnings to that church/religion (scientology style). Otherwise you're just being a hypocrite .... and of course possibly still are under this proposed arrangement .... but it seems fairer anyway.

Dont you have to pay the priest for the use of his time/church anyway?

rainbow kirby

When I get married (*if* that ever happens...) there's no way in hell it'll be in a church. I'm not religious, so to me having a church wedding is just incredibly hypocritical. I honestly couldn't stand in front of some old virgin and say that I was going to bring up my children as Catholics... And I really don't care what my family think on these matters, it'd be MY wedding, not theirs.

koneko

rainbow kirby wrote:

When I get married (*if* that ever happens...) there's no way in hell it'll be in a church. I'm not religious, so to me having a church wedding is just incredibly hypocritical. I honestly couldn't stand in front of some old virgin and say that I was going to bring up my children as Catholics... And I really don't care what my family think on these matters, it'd be MY wedding, not theirs.

Kirby, were we seperated at birth? I think I'll adopt you as my new* twin otherwise.


*I accidentally killed the last one, oopsy

savoyard

Why?

There's a limited number of registry offices in the country - it would just be like the driving test fiasco if more people weren't hypocrites. It's hard enough for people to find a church that has a day free sometime in the next two years.

the guest list is hassle enough without having them all go on about how it's not a "real" wedding. I know people whose parents have refused to come to their wedding as it's not in a church. Ok you can stand your ground, but most couples who want a wedding (rather than a marriage cert) want their families to take part in the day and for it to be a happy occasion rather than extra hassle. Unfortunately, that's the way many Irish families work.

I see myself as culturally catholic and christian - I was brought up that way, went to a convent, have been baptised and confirmed. I don't practise anymore and certainly have major issues with the Church. Sure, it's hypocritical but so are a lot of things 'real' Irish catholics do.

The amount of money people spent has little to do with whether it is a church wedding or not: you give about €300-€500 for the use of the church, you'd have to pay the same or a lot more to get married in a hotel in the UK.

Until they implement the new law (it's all a bit wishy washy still and i don't know anyone who has managed to book a wedding outside a registry office) and people have a real choice about where they get married, people will continue to use the church for their own purposes.

Pigman II

skywalker_208 wrote:

Dont you have to pay the priest for the use of his time/church anyway?

It's not really about fund collecting it's more a way of asking 'well how committed to this premise are you?' I think they should do the same thing at weekly mass for example. If you cannot produce lets say '26' stubs from the previous 52 weeks then you don't get in on Xmas days and then you have some explaining to do to Granny who's up for the week and thinks her little Johnny is the next thing to saintdom.

I'm no longer a Catholic myself but I'm still sickened by the fairweather flock who use the church occasions to decorate their lifestyle. Then again who am I to speak for the church? Maybe they love it when these hypocrites stick their heads inside the door once or twice a year?

Simple Simon

Cos it's tradition

Hydroquinone

savoyard wrote:

The amount of money people spent has little to do with whether it is a church wedding or not: you give about €300-€500 for the use of the church, you'd have to pay the same or a lot more to get married in a hotel in the UK.

I'd agree with that to a certain extent, most of the cost of a wedding goes on the reception, surely. Right enough, a big wedding dress to wear in a church wedding would cost more than a smart dress or a suit that you might wear in a regiistry office, but surely, most of the money a wedding costs is due to the cost of the reception.
Thankfully I've passed the stage in my life where every month in the summer had a wedding or two to go to, but most of the Irish weddings I've been to seem to think that if there's less than 200 people sitting down to the dinner, then it's a poor show.

Never been to a registry office wedding, so I can't say too much about them. Maybe getting married in a registry office would make you have fewer guests, so the cost of the reception would be smaller. Dunno.

Dades

Pigman II wrote:

I'm no longer a Catholic myself but I'm still sickened by the fairweather flock who use the church occasions to decorate their lifestyle. Then again who am I to speak for the church? Maybe they love it when these hypocrites stick their heads inside the door once or twice a year?

I don't understand why you give a sh*t.

Live and let live, man.

Pigman II

I guess when you live with it and see it all around it starts to bother you even if you yourself are not guilty of it.

MorningStar

The Atheist wrote:

I don't understand why you give a sh*t.

Live and let live, man.

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

Would you think it would offend the Jewish faith if you had a Jewish wedding and didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?

Sleepy

Personally I like the idea of a civil union in the ruins of an ancient Cambodian palace or somewhere beautiful like that. Finding a girl in Ireland prepared to give up her childhood dream of a big white wedding is no easy task though! Most women in Ireland (or at least the ones I know) would also still profess to be a Catholic.

I've always tended to spoil the women in my life so I can't see it being any different if it came to choosing between her dream wedding or mine. Sure it'll be hypocritical of me to go through any religious wedding service but frankly, if it's to make someone I love happy, who is taking the religious part of the vows seriously, I couldn't give a flying fcuk if anyone has a problem with me considering them to be absolute horse$hit.

Sleepy

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

Would you think it would offend the Jewish faith if you had a Jewish wedding and didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?

Not if your bethrothed was Jewish...

savoyard

Women who get married in registry offices still buy expensive white dresses you know! Getting married in a registry office doesn't mean you can't have the whole white wedding thing, that you have to have a small and reserved affair. (and they wonder why irish couples don't consider registry offices :rolleyes: )

Personally, i think there is a big difference between someone who was brought up in a faith - whether it is Catholic or Jewish - getting married in his/her culture's way, whether they still practice or not - and someone who has no ties whatsoever to a church or synagogue deciding they want to do it.

And hey! there's plenty of room for hypocrites in the catholic church. I don't loose too much sleep over it.

MorningStar

Sleepy wrote:

Not if your bethrothed was Jewish...

Not true if you don't practice the faith your self. Both parties have to believe in the cermony but as I said "didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?"
It is about belief and respect for others of a faith.
To paraphrase from "Fiddler on the Roof".
"If a fish and a bird were to marry where would the wedding be it can't be in the nest or in the lake"
"!We'll make our own world daddy"

Branoic

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs.

Uhhh.....if they don't know that you actually don't care all that much about the catholic aspects of the vows then they can't be insulted.

Im getting married next year in a church and im not religious. But both sets of parents are, and don't even mention the grandparents and what their idea of a real wedding is! I'd rather risk pissing off a God i dont believe in anyway than dealing with that sort of family hassle.

Like it or not, as much as couples getting married like think of it as "our day" - its not just that, its also a huge day for both families, especially the parents, and as such a church is more than likely the venue of choice.

Because I'm not religious, does that mean I shouldn't attend the funeral of my parents when they die? Because taking part in the funeral prayers would be "hypocritical"? Does it also mean I myself can't have a funeral, so that those of my friends and family who are religious can (hopefully!) mourn my tragic death?

Dades

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

Nobody seemed too insulted last June when I did it.

The opposite in fact.

Blondie86Star

I wanat to elope when I get married, go away to the Carribean and get married on a beach.
Your families aren't marrying each other, it's you and your partner.
But if my finacé was religious I would get married in a church

Hydroquinone

savoyard wrote:

Women who get married in registry offices still buy expensive white dresses you know! Getting married in a registry office doesn't mean you can't have the whole white wedding thing, that you have to have a small and reserved affair. (and they wonder why irish couples don't consider registry offices :rolleyes: )

Do they indeed? Fair enough, I suppose, rolly eye person.

But I would say even if they do, that the number who get married in an Irish registry office and do not wear a big white dress is far, far more than the number who get married in an Irish church without a big white dress.
As I say I've never been to a registry office wedding in Ireland, but if you have, then fair enough.

monkeyfudge

MorningStar wrote:

Would you think it would offend the Jewish faith if you had a Jewish wedding and didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?

You've got to admit that is pretty cool though.

I'm an atheist myself, so I'd much rather go for the registry office. But it really isn't the nicest of places. Last time I was in there they had the Magna Carta hanging on the wall and shelves full of books about the Laws of England.

savoyard

This is the thing H - in general registry weddings in Ireland are thought of being small, embarrassed affairs. That's why so many Irish people don't bother with them and get married in a church they no longer go to. The older generation think there's something shameful about them - you're doing it because you aren't allowed get married in a church because you're divorced, or you're embarrased to invite the neighbours. It's silly, but it is a big reason for the whole hyprocrisy bit and why most of us took the easy way out and did it in a church. There's no real accepted alternative to a church wedding in Ireland.

I've been to lavish white civil weddings - but not in Ireland I admit. In fact, I don't think I know anyone whose got married in an Irish registry office - they've gone abroad for a civil ceremony.

abakan

[QUOTE=MorningStar She lives in the US

She now says she will look for a different religion. It will be Christian based but not Catholic.

[/QUOTE]


haha thats funny, i think she bought into that American attitude, sure why doent she make up her own religion, like Mel Gibson and all these rich fruit cakes - she cant do any wrong then.

As with the religion aspect with weddings - Ill have to get married in a church - havent set foot in one in I dont know how long, but i will be shot if i didn have it in one - the parent and elders would look down it me if they did

cooker3

Branoic wrote:

Uhhh.....if they don't know that you actually don't care all that much about the catholic aspects of the vows then they can't be insulted.

Im getting married next year in a church and im not religious. But both sets of parents are, and don't even mention the grandparents and what their idea of a real wedding is! I'd rather risk pissing off a God i dont believe in anyway than dealing with that sort of family hassle.

Like it or not, as much as couples getting married like think of it as "our day" - its not just that, its also a huge day for both families, especially the parents, and as such a church is more than likely the venue of choice.

Because I'm not religious, does that mean I shouldn't attend the funeral of my parents when they die? Because taking part in the funeral prayers would be "hypocritical"? Does it also mean I myself can't have a funeral, so that those of my friends and family who are religious can (hopefully!) mourn my tragic death?

No this is differant as when someone has a funeral in a church thats there choice, if they are cathloic and wanted to go out like that then I will attend and pay me respects but when/if I have a wedding the its my choice and therefore would be highly hyprocritical

Branoic

cooker3 wrote:

No this is differant as when someone has a funeral in a church thats there choice, if they are cathloic and wanted to go out like that then I will attend and pay me respects

But the second part of my "funeral" point was that when *I* die i'll be having a regular funeral. Why? For the benefit of those who wish to mourn me in their religious way. Likewise, the church wedding is for the benefit of those who want to celibrate my wedding in their way. Since I don't care where I have the wedding, why not make lots of people happy and have it in a church?

cooker3 wrote:

but when/if I have a wedding the its my choice and therefore would be highly hyprocritical

Ha! Try saying that when you're actually planning a wedding. My fiancee and I started with the exact same opinion as that. Originally we were going to get married in Italy (because she has always loved Italy) on a beach or the grounds of medieval castle or villa, and there was only going to be about 20 guests.

But pretty soon we compromised with our families and now we're having it in a small medieval chapel in a village north of Florence, with about 40 - 50 guests. That suits me fine. Like I said above - since i dont care if its in a church or not, why not go with the venue that makes the most people happy?

People can argue that its only the opinions of the couple that matter and the wishes of the families don't come in to it - but that's bullsh*t. Of course you want the wedding that YOU want, and you want as little involvement from interfering mother-in-laws as possible. But on the other hand its a big event for you and your families, and you do want everyone to be happy, so their opinions do matter.

As Darth Sidious would say had he been married - "Never underestimate the power of a disapproving mother-in-law"

Duckjob

Personally, it never ceases to amaze me how many people seem to attach more importance to a one-day wedding than to the life-long marraige that supposedly comes afterward. It's like they're more in love with the wedding than the person they're marrying.

WhiteWashMan

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

Would you think it would offend the Jewish faith if you had a Jewish wedding and didn't mean it but liked the idea of smashing a glass and being carried around on a chair?

im not sure how you made the jump from live and let live to insulting a religion.

id also be of the live and let live attitude. why do people get hot under the collar just because someone doesnt attend mass, and yet has an opinion on it?

who cares what other people believe in, and how they go about doing it.

after ll, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, so i dont think that anyone here really has the right to comment on anyone elses involvement or lack of involvement in wedding ceremonies, or religious ceremonies in general.

i cant recall the exact quote now, but i will try and paraphrase 'those who are strong in their own faith, dont need to pick holes in others'.

for me, i translate that, look after yourself, and stop worrying about what other people think, and why....

Branoic

Exactly, WhiteWashMan.

And I'd just like to come back what MorningStar said:

MorningStar wrote:

Do you have any respect for anybodies beliefs? By using a church and entering vacant vows you are insulting the relgious beliefs. Not exactly live and let live.

You've got it backwards, mate. The vast majority of non-religious people who get married in a church, like me, are doing it precisely *because* they have respect for people's beliefs.

If I wanted to get married in a church because it looks pretty, but my parents were very religious and thought this was hypocritical and insulting and would be happier if I didn't get married in a church - then I would be offending them. But that's not the case.

But the guests at my wedding actually *want* me to get married in a church. I originally wasn't going to - but my parents weren't happy with that. Thus by getting married in a church I'm not actually offending anyone who matters. After all, I don't know you and you're not coming to the wedding, so whether you're offended or not by what I do makes very little difference.

MorningStar

abakan wrote:

haha thats funny, i think she bought into that American attitude, sure why doent she make up her own religion, like Mel Gibson and all these rich fruit cakes - she cant do any wrong then.

No she didn't like signing a piece of paper that suggests her brother will burn in hell because of his sexual preference. Actually respecting the catholic church is the reason she no longer wants to be a memeber. Religions are not democracies you follow the rules or leave. A la carte doesn't come into it.

The Atheist wrote:

Nobody seemed too insulted last June when I did it.

The opposite in fact.

Just becasue people don't know you are insulting them doesn't mean you didn't do it.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

im not sure how you made the jump from live and let live to insulting a religion.

Going into a church and making a mockary of one of it's most sacred rituals is an insult. You would not be letting people letting people live if you are interferring in their religion that you don't belive. Very simple. I don't care about your beliefs but I care when it effects others religions. I don't belive in organised religion but I belive in the the right and defend it. I will not mock other beliefs or pretend to believe for a "nice day out".

WhiteWashMan

MorningStar wrote:

Going into a church and making a mockary of one of it's most sacred rituals is an insult.

actually, i dont see it as making a mockery of anyones beliefs. if i went into a church dressed up as a devil with a red pitchfork, then i reckon youd have a good case against me, but if one of the people getting married is a catholic, and thats they way they want to get married, then i dont see why non catholics cant respect that and go along with it?

in fact, i recently had this arguement, and it was a very loud screaming argument (they were screaming at me, i was in too much shock to reply) that because i was asked to be a god father to a baby and go through the religious ceremony, i was making a mockery of that religion, and of those people.
i argued that neither of the parents were religious, one is a protestant by birth, and if their church are willing to let them go through the tradition of celebrating a baptism of a baby in a church, then whats the problem?

i certainly didnt make any jokes about it, and i only did it because it was the families way of showing that they love me and want me as part of their family. i was the best man at the wedding, in a church, and they were just including me in their family life again.

now, if the church has a problem with this, then its up to them to say 'no, stop'. but just because im not catholic, does this mean that any dealings i have to do with an organised religion is going to be automatically a mockery, simply because i dont follow that faith?

i dont think so. and thats the argument of so many people.

youre not x religion, so you cant have an opinion or anything that you do will be stupid becuase you dont understand it

actually, no. im not catholic, but i understand it. im not stupid. i dont agree with many parts of catholisism, but i recognise organised religion, and i recognise its importance in society. even if other people here make fun of it. i could argue and debate all day either for or against it, but thats neither here nor there.


the fact of the matter is that taking part in something that you are not directly involved in , in the long term is not a mockery. its intolerance in other people that start people thowing around terms like that.

MorningStar wrote:

I don't care about your beliefs but I care when it effects others religions. I don't belive in organised religion but I belive in the the right and defend it. I will not mock other beliefs or pretend to believe for a "nice day out".

well, thats your interpretation to it. personally i view it as very simplistic and narrow, but there you go. and why you have so much time to worry about things that are any of your business, i have no idea. it appears you do feel very strongly about it.

by the way, when you say you dont believe in organised religion, i take it you mean in the siritual way, as opposed to the actuallity of it?

i would find it hard to defend something that i dont actually believe in tbh.

RainyDay

We got married in a Catholic church because the missus wanted to walk down a big long aisle in a big long dress. We baptised our daughter in a Catholic church because that's what it takes to get into the local school.

I'm not religious in any way.

dent

Zebra3 wrote:

Yet they still get married in a church, and while making the most important promises of their lives (wedding vows), lie blatanly about bringing their kids up as Catholics and their 'devotion' or something like that to God and the church. To me, this demeans their vows and all the sincerity of the day and their future.

Why do people do this?

Does anyone else apart from me think this is bizarre?

Two friends of mine recently got married and I felt that the lie they told on the alter was no way to start a marriage.

They had ridiculed me in the past for my Christian beliefs and I thought it was pure hypocrisy for them to get married in a Catholic church.

the_syco

Meh. If you get married in the church, it satisfies both families, and also is more legal. By "more legal", I mean they get more rights, if one of them die's, etc.

Some people do it just to please the parents, I'd say.

WhiteWashMan

the_syco wrote:

Meh. If you get married in the church, it satisfies both families, and also is more legal. By "more legal", I mean they get more rights, if one of them die's, etc.

you get more rights if you get married in a church than if you get married somewhere else?