Self Service Checkouts at Tesco

Mike_Hunt · 25-08-2005 09:25AM #1

Has anyone else noticed that if you use laser or credit card at Tesco Self Service checkouts that all you do is swipe the card and the transaction is complete!!!!!

What a security breach, all someone has to do is steal a card then buy a trolley load of booze and swipe your card!

Why not use an electronic signature like most US supermarkets have that gets printed on your receipt or even better a Pin Number entry if you want to use the card.

I mean come on people!!! what do you think

declanoneill · 25-08-2005 09:29AM

When I was in Boston, the first place I saw such self service checkouts, all you had to do was swipe the card as well. I assume as there is no signature requirements if someone did steal your card Tescos (in this case) would have to pay for anything put on the card. Also, in Tescos anyway, anything over a certain amount (€40 IIRC) has to get approval.

jcoote · 25-08-2005 09:30AM

no way thats a sham...the new chipped laser cards need pin authorisation in order to make a transaction (the little machines on the cash desk in most shops)...that should be the way tesco do it, especially when its self service...can't believe how unsecure that is...good god

Mike_Hunt · 25-08-2005 09:33AM

I agree totally that you should need your pin number to use the card but nope! its just swipe and go.

declanoneill · 25-08-2005 09:40AM

Mike_Hunt wrote:

I agree totally that you should need your pin number to use the card but nope! its just swipe and go.

I honestly don't see the big deal. They should require pin numbers, but in many places that you could spend vastily more then tescos they only require a signature that they don't even look at. It's certainly nothing to worry about IMO

Cake Fiend · 25-08-2005 09:56AM

This should give you an idea of how useful credit card signatures are in terms of security.

Blisterman · 25-08-2005 10:12AM

I hate those chip and pin credit cards. They slow things up to much, and if you've forgotten your pin number, you can just ask to sign for it instead. Whats the point?

Malorkus · 25-08-2005 10:18AM

Blisterman wrote:

I hate those chip and pin credit cards. They slow things up to much, and if you've forgotten your pin number, you can just ask to sign for it instead. Whats the point?

If you forget your pin, you're a mong, so that's no excuse.

I think it's fine not signing for it - I mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

Blisterman · 25-08-2005 10:28AM

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

seamus · 25-08-2005 10:42AM

Signatures are pointless anyway. 99% of shop assistants just glance at it or don't check at all. I can remember in my time, allowing women to use their husband's card, and sign his name, etc.

With the chip and PIN cards, afaik it's impossible to charge a transaction on the card without the PIN, so the Tesco swipe machines probably only work with old cards.

Stephen · 25-08-2005 10:46AM

Blisterman wrote:

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

*bzzt* wrong. You're far more likely to be the victim of credit card fraud through dodgy bricks'n'mortar shops/restaurants etc.
The cards do work online but they don't get you to enter your PIN. They're rolling out an online verification system at the moment, I use it on my AIB mastercard. Not all online retailers support it yet, but Komplett do. It works very well.

markpb · 25-08-2005 11:10AM

Blisterman wrote:

I hate those chip and pin credit cards. They slow things up to much, and if you've forgotten your pin number, you can just ask to sign for it instead. Whats the point?

Being able to sign instead of using your pin is a temporary situation until everyone has C&P cards. It's at the discretion of the retailer, if they accept card that has a chip but used signature instead, they're liable for any problems with that transaction.

They are very slow though. I have a feeling that all the transactions are being back-end authenticated for the moment which would slow things up quite a bit. Maybe that will change after they've been in use for a while.

Oh and the point is a little added security over silly signatures.

meepmeep · 25-08-2005 11:28AM

seamus wrote:

With the chip and PIN cards, afaik it's impossible to charge a transaction on the card without the PIN, so the Tesco swipe machines probably only work with old cards.

Nah, I got my chip and pin card a few months back, and I've used it in the self service checkouts loads of times......no problems with the transactions.

ShiverinEskimo · 25-08-2005 11:29AM

Malorkus wrote:

mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

Credit card number generation software which builds a number that passes the check sum - someone in china could clone your card without you ever having met them and then either use it online oractually make a fake credit card. Also - in a restaurant when you give them your card whats to stop them taking a note of the number while they are away doing the transaction..it happens all the time - normally the first sign you see is your card maxed out and having to go through the chargeback process.

Civilian_Target · 25-08-2005 11:55AM

apparantly buying $16,000 of televisions is sufficient for them to check your signature....

Malorkus · 25-08-2005 12:11PM

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Credit card number generation software which builds a number that passes the check sum - someone in china could clone your card without you ever having met them and then either use it online oractually make a fake credit card. Also - in a restaurant when you give them your card whats to stop them taking a note of the number while they are away doing the transaction..it happens all the time - normally the first sign you see is your card maxed out and having to go through the chargeback process.

I've done chargebacks before - and they're piss easy. I just send a fax to AIB credit card centre, specifying an unauthorised transaction - and they refund me - simple as that. Then its up to the retailer/merchant to prove I authorised the transaction in the first place- which they can't if it's fraud.

Mike_Hunt · 25-08-2005 12:13PM

I think it's fine not signing for it - I mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

I cant agree with this as in some cases im sure theres a time delay between having the card stolen and reporting is stolen.

Or what if you lose your wallet/purse without realising - someone can run up a pretty big bill in a short amount of time

chern0byl · 25-08-2005 12:18PM

seamus wrote:

With the chip and PIN cards, afaik it's impossible to charge a transaction on the card without the PIN, so the Tesco swipe machines probably only work with old cards.

Nope. I couldnt remember my pin a few times, so i asked them to enter the card number manually. bingo bango.

seamus · 25-08-2005 12:19PM

Malorkus wrote:

I think it's fine not signing for it - I mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

Well, you have cases like the recent Columbian guy (?) who managed to convince staff in a top Dublin hotel that he had lost the key for his room, stole a credit card from the room, and ran up bills of hundred of thousands of euros on jewellery, long before the owner of the card was even aware that it wasn't still in his bedside locker.

I stand corrected on the C&P thing. Seems completely and utterly pointless to have it in the first place so :rolleyes:

zap · 25-08-2005 12:29PM

you will not be able to sign soon so if you forget your pin its tough.

Malorkus · 25-08-2005 12:39PM

seamus wrote:

Well, you have cases like the recent Columbian guy (?) who managed to convince staff in a top Dublin hotel that he had lost the key for his room, stole a credit card from the room, and ran up bills of hundred of thousands of euros on jewellery, long before the owner of the card was even aware that it wasn't still in his bedside locker.

I stand corrected on the C&P thing. Seems completely and utterly pointless to have it in the first place so :rolleyes:

So? The CC owner can still get all of those items charged back, and the retailer will have to suffer the loss because they accepted a dodgy credit card. It's the merchant's responsibility to check the buyer is legit.

][cEMAN** · 25-08-2005 12:52PM

Then simply don't forget your fucking pin!! Jesus, even make it your dob. At least using your dob will protect you against strangers, even if it's useless if it's stolen by someone who knows you.

And if you forget your dob (year or whatever) then tbh you deserve to get your card stolen and have thousands of €'s run up, and have your house reposessed to cover the cost you stupid fucking bastard!!! (Note the lack of sympathy here for idiots)

seamus · 25-08-2005 12:57PM

Malorkus wrote:

So? The CC owner can still get all of those items charged back, and the retailer will have to suffer the loss because they accepted a dodgy credit card. It's the merchant's responsibility to check the buyer is legit.

That's not the reality of the situation though. CC companies are well known for being difficult about it, especially when the amounts are small (thieves tend to pay for small things like petrol so suspicion isn't aroused when they try to buy a 35k car on a credit card), and the purchases are made in your locale.

jimmycrackcorm · 25-08-2005 01:11PM

Those self-service checkouts haven't been updated with the new chip and pin software yet so that means that the retailer - tescos takes responsibility for any potential credit card fraud as liability has shifted since January to the retailer.

However with those checkouts each transaciton is linked to cctv video meaning that Tescos can go back directly to an invalid transaction and provide the video of the transaction to the Garda.

those NCR checkouts are very sophisticated - the packing side is a weight scale and the weight of each scanned item is read to make sure you are scanning and not swapping the items around.

they could do with more of them.

daymobrew · 25-08-2005 01:13PM

Mike_Hunt wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that if you use laser or credit card at Tesco Self Service checkouts that all you do is swipe the card and the transaction is complete!!!!!

If the purchase is over e60 they will check your signature. Happened me last week.

BTW, in California, back in 2000, you could use your ATM card for purchases - just enter your PIN. No signature required. No Chip-n-PIN fanfare.

You could also pay for petrol at the pump with your credit card (no sig required) or ATM card. Why don't we have that here?!?

egan007 · 25-08-2005 01:16PM

Blisterman wrote:

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

You got stats to back that up?

Neuro · 25-08-2005 01:16PM

Mike_Hunt wrote:

What a security breach, all someone has to do is steal a card then buy a trolley load of booze and swipe your card!

Given that Tesco is such a large retailer they probably have the clout to negotiate special contracts with their credit card merchant to negate the need for PIN verification. Whether it's Tesco or their merchant that ultimately absorbs any resultant fraudulent transactions is open to question.

Either way, the original cardholder would not be liable for any charges arising from the use of their stolen card in a self-service checkout in a Tesco store.

Neuro · 25-08-2005 01:30PM

Malorkus wrote:

I've done chargebacks before - and they're piss easy.

That sounds like fraud by deception to me...

meepmeep · 25-08-2005 02:38PM

daymobrew wrote:

You could also pay for petrol at the pump with your credit card (no sig required) or ATM card. Why don't we have that here?!?

I don't know about Dublin but you can do that at the Tesco petrol station in Waterford with a credit card (not an ATM card though).

Blisterman · 28-08-2005 02:24PM

egan007 wrote:

You got stats to back that up?

Ok, half, not all. Well according to wikipedia anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud

cee_jay · 28-08-2005 03:27PM

Sico wrote:

This should give you an idea of how useful credit card signatures are in terms of security.

I used to work part time in a Supermarket and one day we were really busy.
So this woman comes to the till, and hands me a credit card to pay for her shopping (about €120).
So notice the name on the card and its John (for example)!
So I ask her is it her credit card and she says yes, so I swipe the card through and she signs the receipt - and signs it Mary
So I inform her that the signatures do not match and unless she has any other form of ID showing that she is John, I can't accept the credit card as payment, and has she any other way of paying for the shopping?
So she starts yelling at me - in front of exeryone - I can feel myself getting redder and redder - my supervisor has to come over to tell her exactly the same thing as I did!
So she heads out to the car park and gets her husband John - who complains to the manager about me
No thanks or anything for spotting the person using the card was not the owner!

Self Service Checkouts at Tesco

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