Self Service Checkouts at Tesco

Mike_Hunt

Has anyone else noticed that if you use laser or credit card at Tesco Self Service checkouts that all you do is swipe the card and the transaction is complete!!!!!

What a security breach, all someone has to do is steal a card then buy a trolley load of booze and swipe your card!

Why not use an electronic signature like most US supermarkets have that gets printed on your receipt or even better a Pin Number entry if you want to use the card.

I mean come on people!!! what do you think

declanoneill

When I was in Boston, the first place I saw such self service checkouts, all you had to do was swipe the card as well. I assume as there is no signature requirements if someone did steal your card Tescos (in this case) would have to pay for anything put on the card. Also, in Tescos anyway, anything over a certain amount (€40 IIRC) has to get approval.

jcoote

no way thats a sham...the new chipped laser cards need pin authorisation in order to make a transaction (the little machines on the cash desk in most shops)...that should be the way tesco do it, especially when its self service...can't believe how unsecure that is...good god

Mike_Hunt

I agree totally that you should need your pin number to use the card but nope! its just swipe and go.

declanoneill

Mike_Hunt wrote:

I agree totally that you should need your pin number to use the card but nope! its just swipe and go.

I honestly don't see the big deal. They should require pin numbers, but in many places that you could spend vastily more then tescos they only require a signature that they don't even look at. It's certainly nothing to worry about IMO

Cake Fiend

This should give you an idea of how useful credit card signatures are in terms of security.

Blisterman

I hate those chip and pin credit cards. They slow things up to much, and if you've forgotten your pin number, you can just ask to sign for it instead. Whats the point?

Malorkus

Blisterman wrote:

I hate those chip and pin credit cards. They slow things up to much, and if you've forgotten your pin number, you can just ask to sign for it instead. Whats the point?

If you forget your pin, you're a mong, so that's no excuse.

I think it's fine not signing for it - I mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

Blisterman

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

seamus

Signatures are pointless anyway. 99% of shop assistants just glance at it or don't check at all. I can remember in my time, allowing women to use their husband's card, and sign his name, etc.

With the chip and PIN cards, afaik it's impossible to charge a transaction on the card without the PIN, so the Tesco swipe machines probably only work with old cards.

Stephen

Blisterman wrote:

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

*bzzt* wrong. You're far more likely to be the victim of credit card fraud through dodgy bricks'n'mortar shops/restaurants etc.
The cards do work online but they don't get you to enter your PIN. They're rolling out an online verification system at the moment, I use it on my AIB mastercard. Not all online retailers support it yet, but Komplett do. It works very well.

markpb

Blisterman wrote:

I hate those chip and pin credit cards. They slow things up to much, and if you've forgotten your pin number, you can just ask to sign for it instead. Whats the point?

Being able to sign instead of using your pin is a temporary situation until everyone has C&P cards. It's at the discretion of the retailer, if they accept card that has a chip but used signature instead, they're liable for any problems with that transaction.

They are very slow though. I have a feeling that all the transactions are being back-end authenticated for the moment which would slow things up quite a bit. Maybe that will change after they've been in use for a while.

Oh and the point is a little added security over silly signatures.

meepmeep

seamus wrote:

With the chip and PIN cards, afaik it's impossible to charge a transaction on the card without the PIN, so the Tesco swipe machines probably only work with old cards.

Nah, I got my chip and pin card a few months back, and I've used it in the self service checkouts loads of times......no problems with the transactions.

ShiverinEskimo

Malorkus wrote:

mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

Credit card number generation software which builds a number that passes the check sum - someone in china could clone your card without you ever having met them and then either use it online oractually make a fake credit card. Also - in a restaurant when you give them your card whats to stop them taking a note of the number while they are away doing the transaction..it happens all the time - normally the first sign you see is your card maxed out and having to go through the chargeback process.

Civilian_Target

apparantly buying $16,000 of televisions is sufficient for them to check your signature....

Malorkus

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Credit card number generation software which builds a number that passes the check sum - someone in china could clone your card without you ever having met them and then either use it online oractually make a fake credit card. Also - in a restaurant when you give them your card whats to stop them taking a note of the number while they are away doing the transaction..it happens all the time - normally the first sign you see is your card maxed out and having to go through the chargeback process.

I've done chargebacks before - and they're piss easy. I just send a fax to AIB credit card centre, specifying an unauthorised transaction - and they refund me - simple as that. Then its up to the retailer/merchant to prove I authorised the transaction in the first place- which they can't if it's fraud.

Mike_Hunt

I think it's fine not signing for it - I mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

I cant agree with this as in some cases im sure theres a time delay between having the card stolen and reporting is stolen.

Or what if you lose your wallet/purse without realising - someone can run up a pretty big bill in a short amount of time

chern0byl

seamus wrote:

With the chip and PIN cards, afaik it's impossible to charge a transaction on the card without the PIN, so the Tesco swipe machines probably only work with old cards.

Nope. I couldnt remember my pin a few times, so i asked them to enter the card number manually. bingo bango.

seamus

Malorkus wrote:

I think it's fine not signing for it - I mean, how can someone possibly get your credit card and buy stuff on it? If it gets robbed or lost, it will be reported stolen, then it can't be used. Simple concept.

Well, you have cases like the recent Columbian guy (?) who managed to convince staff in a top Dublin hotel that he had lost the key for his room, stole a credit card from the room, and ran up bills of hundred of thousands of euros on jewellery, long before the owner of the card was even aware that it wasn't still in his bedside locker.

I stand corrected on the C&P thing. Seems completely and utterly pointless to have it in the first place so :rolleyes:

zap

you will not be able to sign soon so if you forget your pin its tough.

Malorkus

seamus wrote:

Well, you have cases like the recent Columbian guy (?) who managed to convince staff in a top Dublin hotel that he had lost the key for his room, stole a credit card from the room, and ran up bills of hundred of thousands of euros on jewellery, long before the owner of the card was even aware that it wasn't still in his bedside locker.

I stand corrected on the C&P thing. Seems completely and utterly pointless to have it in the first place so :rolleyes:

So? The CC owner can still get all of those items charged back, and the retailer will have to suffer the loss because they accepted a dodgy credit card. It's the merchant's responsibility to check the buyer is legit.

][cEMAN**

Then simply don't forget your fucking pin!! Jesus, even make it your dob. At least using your dob will protect you against strangers, even if it's useless if it's stolen by someone who knows you.

And if you forget your dob (year or whatever) then tbh you deserve to get your card stolen and have thousands of €'s run up, and have your house reposessed to cover the cost you stupid fucking bastard!!! (Note the lack of sympathy here for idiots)

seamus

Malorkus wrote:

So? The CC owner can still get all of those items charged back, and the retailer will have to suffer the loss because they accepted a dodgy credit card. It's the merchant's responsibility to check the buyer is legit.

That's not the reality of the situation though. CC companies are well known for being difficult about it, especially when the amounts are small (thieves tend to pay for small things like petrol so suspicion isn't aroused when they try to buy a 35k car on a credit card), and the purchases are made in your locale.

jimmycrackcorm

Those self-service checkouts haven't been updated with the new chip and pin software yet so that means that the retailer - tescos takes responsibility for any potential credit card fraud as liability has shifted since January to the retailer.

However with those checkouts each transaciton is linked to cctv video meaning that Tescos can go back directly to an invalid transaction and provide the video of the transaction to the Garda.

those NCR checkouts are very sophisticated - the packing side is a weight scale and the weight of each scanned item is read to make sure you are scanning and not swapping the items around.

they could do with more of them.

daymobrew

Mike_Hunt wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that if you use laser or credit card at Tesco Self Service checkouts that all you do is swipe the card and the transaction is complete!!!!!

If the purchase is over e60 they will check your signature. Happened me last week.

BTW, in California, back in 2000, you could use your ATM card for purchases - just enter your PIN. No signature required. No Chip-n-PIN fanfare.

You could also pay for petrol at the pump with your credit card (no sig required) or ATM card. Why don't we have that here?!?

egan007

Blisterman wrote:

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

You got stats to back that up?

Neuro

Mike_Hunt wrote:

What a security breach, all someone has to do is steal a card then buy a trolley load of booze and swipe your card!

Given that Tesco is such a large retailer they probably have the clout to negotiate special contracts with their credit card merchant to negate the need for PIN verification. Whether it's Tesco or their merchant that ultimately absorbs any resultant fraudulent transactions is open to question.

Either way, the original cardholder would not be liable for any charges arising from the use of their stolen card in a self-service checkout in a Tesco store.

Neuro

Malorkus wrote:

I've done chargebacks before - and they're piss easy.

That sounds like fraud by deception to me...

meepmeep

daymobrew wrote:

You could also pay for petrol at the pump with your credit card (no sig required) or ATM card. Why don't we have that here?!?

I don't know about Dublin but you can do that at the Tesco petrol station in Waterford with a credit card (not an ATM card though).

Blisterman

egan007 wrote:

You got stats to back that up?

Ok, half, not all. Well according to wikipedia anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_fraud

cee_jay

Sico wrote:

This should give you an idea of how useful credit card signatures are in terms of security.

I used to work part time in a Supermarket and one day we were really busy.
So this woman comes to the till, and hands me a credit card to pay for her shopping (about €120).
So notice the name on the card and its John (for example)!
So I ask her is it her credit card and she says yes, so I swipe the card through and she signs the receipt - and signs it Mary
So I inform her that the signatures do not match and unless she has any other form of ID showing that she is John, I can't accept the credit card as payment, and has she any other way of paying for the shopping?
So she starts yelling at me - in front of exeryone - I can feel myself getting redder and redder - my supervisor has to come over to tell her exactly the same thing as I did!
So she heads out to the car park and gets her husband John - who complains to the manager about me
No thanks or anything for spotting the person using the card was not the owner!

rubadub

Please tell me what she was yelling, and what her husband said to the manager in complaint. How could they possibly have a reasonable argument?

I thought the supervisor at the self checkoutwould come over when I swiped my card, but they didnt. Now I do not understand why they still make me sign at the normal checkout, why not just swipe and go there too? saves time...

Scraggs

i've used someone elses credit card on these self service checkouts and not a word was said. Admittedly it was my dads and he sent me in to get stuff but still i could have been anyone!
I've heard that when cc's go fully c&p sometime next year stores will be updating software and only allow c&p cc transactions

cee_jay

rubadub wrote:

Please tell me what she was yelling, and what her husband said to the manager in complaint. How could they possibly have a reasonable argument?

Basically they didn't have much of an argument - she was just yelling at me for not accepting the card (apparently it was all my fault!). She just created a scene and was not being one bit rational about it (it was a few years ago so can't remember her exact words!). Stuff along the lines of "this is a disgrace, she uses it everywhere else, etc. etc." Oh and the fact could I not see that she had two young kids with her and it was the last thing she needed! (She had the 2 young kids in shopping while the husband sat outside in the car! If she was that stressed with them leave them outside!)

The husband complained to the manager because I embarassed his wife and it was "obvious" that it was her husband's card, and that I was just trying to create a scene for them!
The manager just politely informed him that if he wasn't happy that we were being vigilant about security, and the fact that his card could have been stolen, to write to head office.
And if he did want his wife to be able to use his card, get her a card in her own name.

Everyone on the checkouts were just laughing at them!

DrIndy

You should have cut it in half on her, then kept the pieces!

You would have been in your rights to do so!

angeldelight

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

those NCR checkouts are very sophisticated - the packing side is a weight scale and the weight of each scanned item is read to make sure you are scanning and not swapping the items around.
they could do with more of them.

They can be really irritating though! If you're buying something like a card or a plastic bag even it can take ages to get it to recognise that.

My mum and I use the self service all the time now (I'm a big child and love putting the stuff through). If we're only buying a few small things she just has to swipe. If we're doing a full shop and its a lot of money a slip for her to sign does get printed off and person keeping an eye on the tills comes over to check

rob1891

What happens when you fill up the two spaces for bags? Can you take a bag off and put another on? I've never had the pleasure of doing so much shopping!

angeldelight

rob1891 wrote:

What happens when you fill up the two spaces for bags? Can you take a bag off and put another on? I've never had the pleasure of doing so much shopping!

At the tesco in Maynooth anyway, there's 2 express tills where you put the bags on and one for people with trollies with a conveyor belt that you put everything on after you scan it, someone at the end packs!

JackieChan

I decided to use the self service checkout for a big shop I had done a few weeks ago....It was a bit of a nightmare. It took about 10 seconds for the scanner to interpret the barcodes and the whole experience took about 5 times longer than if I was using a cashier!!
They are great for some amounts of shopping but I personally wouldn't use them for a big shop again.

rubadub

cAr0l wrote:

The husband complained to the manager because I embarassed his wife

Everyone on the checkouts were just laughing at them!

Good, I would have loved to have seen it. Sounds like she was embarrassing herself yelling at you about a non-existant argument.

Malorkus

seamus wrote:

That's not the reality of the situation though. CC companies are well known for being difficult about it, especially when the amounts are small (thieves tend to pay for small things like petrol so suspicion isn't aroused when they try to buy a 35k car on a credit card), and the purchases are made in your locale.

Well I';ve doen it 4 times now with AIB Credit Card Centre and they haven't even questioned me - and all 4 times I have been correct and the merchant wasn't able to prove otherwise.
E.G. Once was for an item that wasn't 'as described' when it arrived (which is against the 'Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act'). I sent back the item to the retailer in the UK. They never refunded me, so I disputed the transaction with AIB CC, saying that I only authorised them to charge my card for "Item X" - and because "Item X" was different than it's website description, technically it isn't "Item X" anymore - it's "Item Y" - which I never asked for and never authorised a transaction for. AIB refunded me immediately, and then chased the merchant.
The merchant then claimed they never received the returned item, but me being the shrewd kina guy I am, I had returned it by registered mail, and was able to tell them the date, time and name of who signed for it - and the case was closed. The merchant was lying, and I proved it to AIB.

I've yet to have a problem with my CC company being awkward or slow.

Tiffany

Speaking of those self-service checkouts, it's so easy to steal... if I buy a few items I usually don't scan one or two of them through. Sometimes there are security guards there monitoring though.
And that automated voice is f***ing irritating... "Please insert cash or swip credit card, Please insert cash or swip credit card, Please insert cash or swip credit card..." I will if you give me two f***ing seconds! :mad: *rant over*

Jonny Arson

I used one of these self-service checkouts tonight and they are so cool but I had to wait nearly 5 minutes to use one becuase people were so slow at using them (mostly older people...... them and technology is never a good combination) and people had way over the clearly stated 10 item limit. One person even had a half-trolly full of items! They are a great idea but the security at them needs to be dramatically improved.

Guy:Incognito

daymobrew wrote:

BTW, in California, back in 2000, you could use your ATM card for purchases - just enter your PIN. No signature required. No Chip-n-PIN fanfare.

"just enter your pin"????? is that not exactly what chip and pin is??????

Our man in Havana

The stupid thing is that your card can still be skimmed as it needs to be swiped first anyways.

Tescos still swipe your card and don't use the chip feature.

markpb

Stekelly wrote:

"just enter your pin"????? is that not exactly what chip and pin is??????

I think daymobrew means they had PIN + Magstrip instead of signature + Magstrip.

daymobrew

markpb wrote:

I think daymobrew means they had PIN + Magstrip instead of signature + Magstrip.

Correct, there was no 'chip' in the card.

daymobrew wrote:

No Chip-n-PIN fanfare.

I meant that the banks weren't patting themselves on the back telling us how wonderful they were, the system simply used the existing features of the ATM card (PIN presumably is on Magstrip).

Bank of America has an excellent feature where it puts your photo on the credit card!!

markpb

Bond-007 wrote:

The stupid thing is that your card can still be skimmed as it needs to be swiped first anyways.

Tescos still swipe your card and don't use the chip feature.

I think I read somewhere that the transaction is done on the chip (if present) but they still swipe it because their software hasn't been updated yet

bullrunner

Blisterman wrote:

Also, the chip and pin cards don't work online, which is where most credit card fraud takes place.

how do you figure that chip and pin cards don't work online? i have one...i buy stuff with it online...