Peeing/Spitting on electric fences....

MorningStar wrote:

Saw the show and you might be missing some of the points they made.

I have that show right here on my computer, and can go through it frame by frame.
They measured a current of 65mA (milliamps) through urine using 650V.
They state that 30mA can paralyse your breathing, 65mA can give you a heart attack.

[other info from elsewhere-
humans can feel 1mA, 10mA can cause severe muscular contractions, and 100mA can cause third degree burns, complete heart stoppage or blockage of the respiratory control center. ie.- death.
More here.
Also, the old trick of sticking a PP3 type 9V battery to your tongue gives a current of about 0.1mA.]

Their high speed camera showed the urine stream breaking up into droplets before it connected the rail, so they overcame this by moving the rail closer and increasing the size of the stream. This 'killed' the test dummy.

They also state that there has never been any documented case of this happening in the history of the New York Subway.

MorningStar wrote:

I agree the fence is higher and more likely.

Thanks.

MorningStar wrote:

They couldn't measure a steady stream past 1 inch or less.

I can't find any reference anywhere to the distance from 'source' to where the stream starts to break up. Perhaps you can tell me at what point in the episode that they state this?

MorningStar wrote:

The 6 feet of your father's "accident" seems extremely unlikely.

I'm amazed at your superior knowledge of WHAT I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES! There were three people there, and I'm pretty sure none of them was called 'MorningStar.' I'm the only one of the three still alive, so unless you're my father or the other guy posting from beyond the grave, I'll continue believing what I know I saw, thank you very much. With all due respect.

MorningStar wrote:

You would need to be really, really, really close to get a shock from what I saw.

Agreed, based on what they did and how they did it. Jamie (the one with the moustache) states the distance to the rail was 6 inches, and Adam states 3 inches. Whichever, I'll concede that the distance is improbably short.
What they didn't do was earth the dummy properly. They set up the live rail on insulating blocks and connected the earth side of the circuit to the railroad track. That's fine, as that's how the system works in real life. However, they made no allowance for bone dry California soil, and the insulating properties of the wooden railroad ties ('sleepers' in this part of the world). They wet the ground and the dummy's feet to improve the circuit, and eventually got it to work. They never investigated the highly lightly possibility that the original mythical victim was standing much closer to or even ON the ground rail.

MorningStar wrote:

You know the laws of physics can't be denied. Earth is just as attractive to all forms of electrictity is the way I remeber my studies

You may also remember stuff about insulators and resistance. Current will earth itself through the 'path of least resistance.' If that happens to be through a stream of urine, a body, and whatever footwear they're wearing, that's where it's going to go.
Consider that modern solid state mains powered electric fencers are throwing out 10,000 or more volts, but they're only doing it for an 100,000th of a second or so every one or two seconds. That's why people (and animals) don't drop dead when 500-4000mA is shot through them, the current isn't flowing for long enough to do (permanent) damage.
What determines the perceived power of the shock is always going to be the ‘highest resistance’ part of the circuit, usually the footwear in the case of humans. REALLY good quality insulating footwear will reduce the shock to practically nothing, while standing barefoot in a puddle and peeing on the wire will give about as good a circuit as it’s probably possible to get, short of hanging on to the 2 contacts on the fencer unit.

I’ll leave it to your imagination what it’s like for livestock with 4 points of contact with the ground (barefoot!) and touching the fence with a wet nose or tongue!

Don’t forget also, that current at these high voltages will ionise the air and jump across gaps in the circuit, so a solid urine stream isn’t even necessary to get the fireworks going.

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It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it.

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