happy slapping, and your rights

LegacyUser · 12-07-2005 11:19AM #1

was just reading a post there about an egging in dublin.

this has just reminded me of similar, but more serious form of asault which has sprung up in london.

happy slapping.

these teenage fcukwit scumbags, walk up to a member of the public and give em a hard slap in the face, while there mates recorded it on there video phones.

friend of mine said she seen it happen to a woman in london, i seen one too, in london also, guy just looked shocked.

my question, if a 13-17 scumbag slaps you in the face, and you're an adult, what can you do?

i know you cant hit kids, but are you aloud to defend yourself in this situation? ie, slap em back

jcoote · 12-07-2005 11:20AM

i don't know the law but i'd break the little ****ers jaw...it'd be self defense and u could say i thought he was 18 or somethin

TerrorFirmer · 12-07-2005 11:21AM

I'd give him a nice friendly slap back. Not a punch, as it could seriously damage, but a nice welting slap that'd put a sting on the cnuts face

KTRIC · 12-07-2005 11:23AM

Like the egging, it's assault and should be treated as such. I'd beat the bleedin' head off him and then just plead guilty in court saying that I though he was older.

jcoote · 12-07-2005 11:26AM

yeah a slap will knock the smile off anyones face...i'd drop the other fellas fone down a shore too

scudster · 12-07-2005 11:26AM

K-TRIC wrote:

Like the egging, it's assault and should be treated as such. I'd beat the bleedin' head off him and then just plead guilty in court saying that I though he was older.

hear hear!

Kernel · 12-07-2005 11:28AM

It's assault, so you can use reasonable force in self defence. Did you know that spitting on someone is also classed as assault?

jcoote · 12-07-2005 11:29AM

spiittin should have a law on its own cos thats worse than gettin smack...dirty bastards

Kernel · 12-07-2005 11:58AM

jcoote wrote:

spiittin should have a law on its own cos thats worse than gettin smack...dirty bastards

True, true. But I was surprised to learn that if someone spits on you, you can legally have them charged with assault.

Drag00n79 · 12-07-2005 11:58AM

I think it depends on how quickly you respond (with a clout etc.) I know from a teaching standpoint if a pupil hits a teacher, the teacher can only respond in kind if it is an immediate reaction — i.e. not premeditated.

thelordofcheese · 12-07-2005 11:59AM

Kernel wrote:

It's assault, so you can use reasonable force in self defence. Did you know that spitting on someone is also classed as assault?

Is there a definition of reasonable force, or some sort of sliding scale based on the threat level or something?

Lets use a recent example, i'm walking a lady friend home, and on our way we pass a group of five or more young boys [aged 15-17ish], who are on and behind a small wall next to the footpath.
One of the group enquires of me thus "hey mister, can i ride your bird!"
to which i reply
"Piss off, you wouldn't know what to do with an actual woman"
The guy then pulls a little wooden bat (you know the kind, about a foot long or so, shaped like a baseball bat) and leaps the wall shouting "I'll ****in' kick the ****e outta ya" and at the same time one of his friends pegs a stone that catches my lady friend on shoulder.

Fearing for her safety, we just get the **** out of there.

Now, what i'm wondering is, based on what happened, at what point would i cross into unreasonable force? The only things that actually happened were some verbal abuse, and a stone being thrown, the guy with the bat didn't come close to either of us or swing it, so would anything beyond a fierce taunting and a return throw of said stone be going to far, or would i be well within my rights to batter them senseless [provided i was able]

RE*AC*TOR · 12-07-2005 12:01PM

i think the best thing to do in that situation, would be to place your hands either side of his head. Get a firm grasp then quickly and sharply turn his head about 90 degrees to either side. Then walk away, knowing that you have done the gene-pool a great service.

thelordofcheese · 12-07-2005 12:05PM

not disposing of the body, the sign of a true man

*Page* · 12-07-2005 12:07PM

If someone slapped me in the face. I'd slap him/her using both my hands one on either cheek at the same time!

If someone says can I ride your bird or other type of comments I’d never rise to them! They are looking for a fight, if you retaliate verbally your sinking to their level!

MorningStar · 12-07-2005 12:07PM

Spitting is assult here alright.

From experience I would not smack the kid back but would find out who it is. No matter how big and fast you are 3 teenager could easily kill you. There are a few stories about of people being put into hospital and worse by teenagers but nothing happeing to them legally.

Reasonable force doesn't quite apply to hitting a child and self defence I think relies on the equal and opposite force rule not reasonable force. Meaning you can't hit them any harder than they hit you. Not sure on it all.

The tax man · 12-07-2005 12:08PM

I'd reply with a "happy kick to the balls".

thelordofcheese · 12-07-2005 12:13PM

or a good hard punch to the ovaries, if it's a female scumbag.

jcoote · 12-07-2005 12:16PM

nose is the one a good ol bite on the nose or two palms across the ears...

MorningStar · 12-07-2005 12:18PM

thelordofcheese wrote:

Now, what i'm wondering is, based on what happened, at what point would i cross into unreasonable force? The only things that actually happened were some verbal abuse, and a stone being thrown, the guy with the bat didn't come close to either of us or swing it, so would anything beyond a fierce taunting and a return throw of said stone be going to far, or would i be well within my rights to batter them senseless [provided i was able]

You did hear about the increase in gang rape in Ireland? You would be extrtemely stupid to go near them there and then. THe objective is to keep people safe. You find out who they are and make sure the parents know . If they don't care make sure everybody knows and after that you can explore other alternatives. Violence breeds violence and needs to be controlled and applied correctly to be effective you were in a situation of their controlling not a good position even if you are Brue Lee.

Macka · 12-07-2005 12:22PM

I'd personally go for ye olde head butt, nothing more pleasing than catching the f*cker on the nose, it hurts like a bitch (rugby experience) and the crunch it makes is such a satisfying sound, lets you know that you really f*cking hurt the bast&rd. That'd show the little scum

seamus · 12-07-2005 12:23PM

It'd be a grey area. If you were quick enough to block it, and get a single punch to the head in, you could say that it was pure reflex. If you got a smack, and reacted quick enough and decked him one, you could also do the same. If you chased him down and/or kicked the bollox out of him, you'd be done for assault, since it would be use of unnecessary force.

The law says that you shouldn't do anything more than what's required to defend yourself, and report the matter to the Gardai.

thelordofcheese · 12-07-2005 12:25PM

It really was more of a theoretical question, i'd never be so fool hardy as to endanger a girl by trying anything, but thats mostly besides the point.

the crux of my first post was, in the situation i described, where would the line of reasonable force be drawn, do you know? does anyone? or would it be a matter for the powers that be should it have made it that far.

Edit: it appears that seamus knows... thanks

Deadwing · 12-07-2005 12:25PM

There is only one answer to this people. Hand out knives to everyone at the entrance to slane this year, and let nature take its course.

John R · 12-07-2005 12:25PM

It's not what you do, it's how you present your actions to the police/DPP.

For self defence (or defence of others) you have to have reason to believe that you are in imminent danger.

In the situation above, If you turned around and smashed in the face of one or more of the little scroats the important thing would be that you believed they were going to assault you or your friend again. The original stone throwing and threatening behaviour with a weapon as well as the fact that you saw one of them pick up another stone led you to believe that you were in immediate danger. You then decided that you couldn't get away so had no option but to incapacitate your attackers.

It's when people say that they got angry and chased after the scum then proceeded to beat them up that they get into trouble.

But remember violence is never the answer, except when it is and preferably when there are no witnesses.

Tobias Greeshman · 12-07-2005 12:32PM

I'd wind the f***er or the double slap to the face might be on the cards too!!

Hobbes · 12-07-2005 12:33PM

paperclip wrote:

my question, if a 13-17 scumbag slaps you in the face, and you're an adult, what can you do?

i know you cant hit kids, but are you aloud to defend yourself in this situation? ie, slap em back

That gem only protects the kid so far. Provocation certainly comes into a play so its not like the kids can do what they like and get away with it.

Pigman II · 12-07-2005 12:33PM

I'd try block/defend the slap but if the poor unfortunate managed to make contact with me the next slap he'd be involved with would be that of his body slapping off the pavement.

I'd like to say I'd be able to just stand there looking shocked or take the Tom Cruise route of 'why would you do that?' but I can't honestly see myself not instinctively boxing the guy in the side of the head. Wrong option on my part I suppose but I'd just worry about the consequences later.

LegacyUser · 12-07-2005 12:36PM

thelordofcheese wrote:

or a good hard punch to the ovaries, if it's a female scumbag.

Tut tut, so politically correct! What's wrong with scumette!?

Khannie · 12-07-2005 12:57PM

Lordofcheese:

IMO, once the stone has been thrown and you're clearly outnumbered, by people with weapons (who have shown that they will use force), then you're free to do whatever the hell you want to defend yourself, within reason.

I did some legal studies in college (a little knowledge may be a dangerous thing here), but from what I understand, most judges just use their common sense, and giving a few broken noses for an assault on your lady friend and threat of violence with a weapon towards you seems prefectly reasonable to me.

Being outnumbered makes it very difficult in situations like that though.

Edit: That's if it gets as far as the gardai of course, which it almost certainly wont. Did you report the incident? You should IMO.

thelordofcheese · 12-07-2005 12:57PM

bruachain wrote:

Tut tut, so politically correct! What's wrong with scumette!?

looks like i learned a new word today.....

Kernel · 12-07-2005 01:08PM

bruachain wrote:

Tut tut, so politically correct! What's wrong with scumette!?

And the old guy with the white beard can be Papa Scum.

happy slapping, and your rights

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