happy slapping, and your rights

LegacyUser

was just reading a post there about an egging in dublin.

this has just reminded me of similar, but more serious form of asault which has sprung up in london.

happy slapping.

these teenage fcukwit scumbags, walk up to a member of the public and give em a hard slap in the face, while there mates recorded it on there video phones.

friend of mine said she seen it happen to a woman in london, i seen one too, in london also, guy just looked shocked.

my question, if a 13-17 scumbag slaps you in the face, and you're an adult, what can you do?

i know you cant hit kids, but are you aloud to defend yourself in this situation? ie, slap em back

jcoote

i don't know the law but i'd break the little ****ers jaw...it'd be self defense and u could say i thought he was 18 or somethin

TerrorFirmer

I'd give him a nice friendly slap back. Not a punch, as it could seriously damage, but a nice welting slap that'd put a sting on the cnuts face

KTRIC

Like the egging, it's assault and should be treated as such. I'd beat the bleedin' head off him and then just plead guilty in court saying that I though he was older.

jcoote

yeah a slap will knock the smile off anyones face...i'd drop the other fellas fone down a shore too

scudster

K-TRIC wrote:

Like the egging, it's assault and should be treated as such. I'd beat the bleedin' head off him and then just plead guilty in court saying that I though he was older.

hear hear!

Kernel

It's assault, so you can use reasonable force in self defence. Did you know that spitting on someone is also classed as assault?

jcoote

spiittin should have a law on its own cos thats worse than gettin smack...dirty bastards

Kernel

jcoote wrote:

spiittin should have a law on its own cos thats worse than gettin smack...dirty bastards

True, true. But I was surprised to learn that if someone spits on you, you can legally have them charged with assault.

Drag00n79

I think it depends on how quickly you respond (with a clout etc.) I know from a teaching standpoint if a pupil hits a teacher, the teacher can only respond in kind if it is an immediate reaction — i.e. not premeditated.

thelordofcheese

Kernel wrote:

It's assault, so you can use reasonable force in self defence. Did you know that spitting on someone is also classed as assault?

Is there a definition of reasonable force, or some sort of sliding scale based on the threat level or something?


Lets use a recent example, i'm walking a lady friend home, and on our way we pass a group of five or more young boys [aged 15-17ish], who are on and behind a small wall next to the footpath.
One of the group enquires of me thus "hey mister, can i ride your bird!"
to which i reply
"Piss off, you wouldn't know what to do with an actual woman"
The guy then pulls a little wooden bat (you know the kind, about a foot long or so, shaped like a baseball bat) and leaps the wall shouting "I'll ****in' kick the ****e outta ya" and at the same time one of his friends pegs a stone that catches my lady friend on shoulder.

Fearing for her safety, we just get the **** out of there.

Now, what i'm wondering is, based on what happened, at what point would i cross into unreasonable force? The only things that actually happened were some verbal abuse, and a stone being thrown, the guy with the bat didn't come close to either of us or swing it, so would anything beyond a fierce taunting and a return throw of said stone be going to far, or would i be well within my rights to batter them senseless [provided i was able]

RE*AC*TOR

i think the best thing to do in that situation, would be to place your hands either side of his head. Get a firm grasp then quickly and sharply turn his head about 90 degrees to either side. Then walk away, knowing that you have done the gene-pool a great service.

thelordofcheese

not disposing of the body, the sign of a true man

*Page*

If someone slapped me in the face. I'd slap him/her using both my hands one on either cheek at the same time!


If someone says can I ride your bird or other type of comments I’d never rise to them! They are looking for a fight, if you retaliate verbally your sinking to their level!

MorningStar

Spitting is assult here alright.

From experience I would not smack the kid back but would find out who it is. No matter how big and fast you are 3 teenager could easily kill you. There are a few stories about of people being put into hospital and worse by teenagers but nothing happeing to them legally.

Reasonable force doesn't quite apply to hitting a child and self defence I think relies on the equal and opposite force rule not reasonable force. Meaning you can't hit them any harder than they hit you. Not sure on it all.

The tax man

I'd reply with a "happy kick to the balls".

thelordofcheese

or a good hard punch to the ovaries, if it's a female scumbag.

jcoote

nose is the one a good ol bite on the nose or two palms across the ears...

MorningStar

thelordofcheese wrote:

Now, what i'm wondering is, based on what happened, at what point would i cross into unreasonable force? The only things that actually happened were some verbal abuse, and a stone being thrown, the guy with the bat didn't come close to either of us or swing it, so would anything beyond a fierce taunting and a return throw of said stone be going to far, or would i be well within my rights to batter them senseless [provided i was able]

You did hear about the increase in gang rape in Ireland? You would be extrtemely stupid to go near them there and then. THe objective is to keep people safe. You find out who they are and make sure the parents know . If they don't care make sure everybody knows and after that you can explore other alternatives. Violence breeds violence and needs to be controlled and applied correctly to be effective you were in a situation of their controlling not a good position even if you are Brue Lee.

Macka

I'd personally go for ye olde head butt, nothing more pleasing than catching the f*cker on the nose, it hurts like a bitch (rugby experience) and the crunch it makes is such a satisfying sound, lets you know that you really f*cking hurt the bast&rd. That'd show the little scum

seamus

It'd be a grey area. If you were quick enough to block it, and get a single punch to the head in, you could say that it was pure reflex. If you got a smack, and reacted quick enough and decked him one, you could also do the same. If you chased him down and/or kicked the bollox out of him, you'd be done for assault, since it would be use of unnecessary force.

The law says that you shouldn't do anything more than what's required to defend yourself, and report the matter to the Gardai.

thelordofcheese

It really was more of a theoretical question, i'd never be so fool hardy as to endanger a girl by trying anything, but thats mostly besides the point.

the crux of my first post was, in the situation i described, where would the line of reasonable force be drawn, do you know? does anyone? or would it be a matter for the powers that be should it have made it that far.


Edit: it appears that seamus knows... thanks

Deadwing

There is only one answer to this people. Hand out knives to everyone at the entrance to slane this year, and let nature take its course.

John R

It's not what you do, it's how you present your actions to the police/DPP.

For self defence (or defence of others) you have to have reason to believe that you are in imminent danger.

In the situation above, If you turned around and smashed in the face of one or more of the little scroats the important thing would be that you believed they were going to assault you or your friend again. The original stone throwing and threatening behaviour with a weapon as well as the fact that you saw one of them pick up another stone led you to believe that you were in immediate danger. You then decided that you couldn't get away so had no option but to incapacitate your attackers.

It's when people say that they got angry and chased after the scum then proceeded to beat them up that they get into trouble.

But remember violence is never the answer, except when it is and preferably when there are no witnesses.

Tobias Greeshman

I'd wind the f***er or the double slap to the face might be on the cards too!!

Hobbes

paperclip wrote:

my question, if a 13-17 scumbag slaps you in the face, and you're an adult, what can you do?

i know you cant hit kids, but are you aloud to defend yourself in this situation? ie, slap em back

That gem only protects the kid so far. Provocation certainly comes into a play so its not like the kids can do what they like and get away with it.

Pigman II

I'd try block/defend the slap but if the poor unfortunate managed to make contact with me the next slap he'd be involved with would be that of his body slapping off the pavement.

I'd like to say I'd be able to just stand there looking shocked or take the Tom Cruise route of 'why would you do that?' but I can't honestly see myself not instinctively boxing the guy in the side of the head. Wrong option on my part I suppose but I'd just worry about the consequences later.

LegacyUser

thelordofcheese wrote:

or a good hard punch to the ovaries, if it's a female scumbag.

Tut tut, so politically correct! What's wrong with scumette!?

Khannie

Lordofcheese:

IMO, once the stone has been thrown and you're clearly outnumbered, by people with weapons (who have shown that they will use force), then you're free to do whatever the hell you want to defend yourself, within reason.

I did some legal studies in college (a little knowledge may be a dangerous thing here), but from what I understand, most judges just use their common sense, and giving a few broken noses for an assault on your lady friend and threat of violence with a weapon towards you seems prefectly reasonable to me.

Being outnumbered makes it very difficult in situations like that though.

Edit: That's if it gets as far as the gardai of course, which it almost certainly wont. Did you report the incident? You should IMO.

thelordofcheese

bruachain wrote:

Tut tut, so politically correct! What's wrong with scumette!?

looks like i learned a new word today.....

Kernel

bruachain wrote:

Tut tut, so politically correct! What's wrong with scumette!?

And the old guy with the white beard can be Papa Scum.

JackKelly

i remember seeing the videos of the scum doing it. I'd imagine a swift kick to the eye would be in order.

c - 13

This is the kind of sh*t that this "Happy Slapping" can ultimately lead to -
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/06/18/slapping.rape.reut/

* apologies if already posted

Scarinae

If I was surrounded by a bunch of knackers and one of them slapped me across the face, I wouldn't hit back, I'd just try to get the f*ck outta there. If you did hit back, they'd probably all attack you

Catsmokinpot

if they are young enough grab em and drag him down to his house knock on his door and tell his mother what hes after doing let his mother sort him out, if they were 15 to 17 give em a good hard kick in the arse or a slap back. its people who do nothing that make these kids think they can do it again

edit: if they are in a group pick the biggest one out and give him a lickin he'll never forget, if they have weapons eg club or a bat, take em off em and beat them with em its not actually that hard.... just when the bats being swung dont take your eye off it grab twist and smack!

if they have a knife run like the bejesus

randomfella

hard 2know what u will do in the situation, you'll only know if/when the situation occurs.

A few examples:

if somebody hits a person with a car door when your trying to give them grief/talk 2 them, for nearly running u down on a pedestrian crossing, u are warranted 2 double team the driver and put him in hospital.


Being attacked or taunted by a group of teenagers when u are an adult is tricky. I know plenty of stories of fully grown men getting bet silly by groups of teenagers as young as 14. The sheer numbers are usually underestimated.

I was subject 2attempted mugging (i know this is different 2topic). A knacker tried 2 mug me and gf. I didnt punch him, but forcefully fcuked him on his arse. Was really dodgy, the car he hopped out of was full of lads. He could have had knife, considering their was nothing valuable in the bag, if the same situation happened again, i dunno.

I prob wouldn't take a slap but depends on group. If u levelled them all with 1 punch first time u'd be grand. But if u don't ur fukced. BTW the shock of it would kick in 4most ppl in which time they'd have run or u walked away,

Tha Gopher

paperclip wrote:

my question, if a 13-17 scumbag slaps you in the face, and you're an adult, what can you do?

i know you cant hit kids, but are you aloud to defend yourself in this situation? ie, slap em back

Technically you cant hit anyone in this situation

However if you have common sense you will do what Id do. If i was fairly confident I could take the fcuker (regardless of age, dont care if he is 13 or 35 if he looks beatable its on muthafcuka) id do this

Attack and incapacitate the little bollix quick as possible. Then drag to secluded area
Steal his phone. Undo his shoes, and steal them too. If he has any nice watch, chain, tracksuit top, well, theyre comin home with me sh1thead Even if his top/shoes were too small for me Id rob them anyway. Either they get resold or thrown on top of nearby electricity lines
Using his phone, ring up his mammy and tell her that her wee man has been a naughty boy, and I presently have a knife to his throat. Make the little ****er scream over the phone
Video myself assaulting him, video him crying and begging for mercy. Then send to all his friends to show that this 15 year old wannabe hardman is a little queer who cant take what he likes to dish out
Empty his wallet, hopefully finding something with his address. After helping myself to his cash, Id remind him of two points

1- I know where you live. Call the cops if you dare
2- Your nice wee phone is full of footage of assaults on me and no doubt several other people. If I go down your coming with me

So yes, basically if I had to take one slap in the face from some prick in return for me hospitalising him and robbing his phone, runners money and making him look the fool infront of his mates I would sleep well that night

The moral is.........dont **** with Gopher


For anyone saying what I propose is some sort of throwback to a lawless vicious society...........ah forget it Honestly, its what they deserve. Randomly hitting people is bad enough- if you dont have the balls to hang around and wait for the vicim to respond, which it seems most of the happy slappers do, they slap and run, then you deserve everything you get

me and the biz

just stand up to them, i was walkin down the street about two years ago and this group of reebok-stripey topped air-max wearing heads were coming towards me. the leader saw me coming and as they passed me he went for me (to make me flinch or scare me or something). my reaction was a swift punch to the stomach. he immediately screamed out "whatcha do that for?" (to my disbelief, i mean he went for me) and they made a quick getaway.

point is they don't expect a reaction. just do what you feel best fits the situation.

county

c - 13 wrote:

This is the kind of sh*t that this "Happy Slapping" can ultimately lead to -
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/06/18/slapping.rape.reut/

* apologies if already posted

that is ****ing sick,they will know all about group sex when there put in prison,hopefully!

zoro

Scene: Sitting on top floor of a bus, near stairs.
****heads appear from back of bus, slap girl sitting midway between them and the stairs, and bolt for the stairway.

Can I stop them, and how much force can I use?

Discuss...

c - 13

zoro wrote:

Scene: Sitting on top floor of a bus, near stairs.
****heads appear from back of bus, slap girl sitting midway between them and the stairs, and bolt for the stairway.

Can I stop them, and how much force can I use?

Discuss...

Make it seem as if your making a grab for him, them push the little f**cker head first straight down the stairs. Painful, humiliating and they'll not be able to go anywhere before someone grabs them.

MorningStar

Tha Gopher wrote:

However if you have common sense you will do what Id do. If i was fairly confident I could take the fcuker (regardless of age, dont care if he is 13 or 35 if he looks beatable its on muthafcuka) id do this



The moral is.........dont **** with Gopher

Oh brave man taking on a beatable 13 year old :rolleyes:

Obviously common sense can never be used to describe something on boards. An adult beating a 13 year old and taking their clothes etc... Sounds like a pervert to me. "Common sense" would say that most people would rather the slap then a label like pedophile but if that's what you want why wait till you get a slap.

There is nothing I carry around with me that I can't replaced. Just because you don't get to beat up the guy doesn't mean you don't do anything.

Ishmael

zoro wrote:

Scene: Sitting on top floor of a bus, near stairs.
****heads appear from back of bus, slap girl sitting midway between them and the stairs, and bolt for the stairway.

Can I stop them, and how much force can I use?

Discuss...

I'd say stick out the leg and trip em. if they fall down the stairs, say it was an accident "they ran into your leg as you were getting up from your seat."

GrumPy

I dont know what i'd do in such a situation, im only 17, but im not a fcukin scumbag, and would never think of doing such a thing, if it happened in a public place, (busy street, bus etc..) make your voice heard, and call them a fcuking scumbag as thery run away like pussys, you may not be able to catch/ or do anything about it, but witnesses, and people who see your reaction hopefully will stop the cnuts and take them down, giving you a chance to call the police, and rob the cnuts phone and let him run off, now you have everything you need to give to the police, his numbers, videos everything about the scumbag then he'll get into sh1t, violence is not allways the answer, but im sure if they got a thump every second time they tried acttacking/slapping you, th'd think twice.

rubadub

zoro wrote:

Scene: Sitting on top floor of a bus, near stairs.
****heads appear from back of bus, slap girl sitting midway between them and the stairs, and bolt for the stairway.

Can I stop them, and how much force can I use?

Discuss...

You could beat them black and blue, you will have plenty of witnesses on the bus to say that they simply fell and we all know those cameras are never working.
If some scumbag slapped me in the street I would hurt them badly, you do not need to show open force, you can push their eyeballs in or squeeze their skull or fish hook them. The best is an arm lock as it appears as self defence to any passerbys, while you have them in an armlock push the fuc kers face up against the wall and discretely rub it into the hopefully rough wall , I would have no problem doing this in front of a garda.

Scarinae

Ok fair enough if you're a guy and are strong enough to beat someone up, but I'm a girl so what the **** would I do? I can kick very hard but I have no strength in my arms, certainly not enough to take on a bunch of knackers - and I wouldn't want to risk being gang raped

MorningStar

Fishie wrote:

Ok fair enough if you're a guy and are strong enough to beat someone up, but I'm a girl so what the **** would I do? I can kick very hard but I have no strength in my arms, certainly not enough to take on a bunch of knackers - and I wouldn't want to risk being gang raped

No matter how strong you are these guys can out number you and have weapons. All the "strong lads" just have not experienced the out numbering or weapon situation and don't realise the risks as far as I can see. The best way is to avoid all the situations from the start and secondly don't aggravate and thirdly get out of the situation.
As a woman when attacked you go for their eyes with your keys and don't stop. If no keys use your hand with your thumb under your fingers (think sock puppet)
. You don't need sthregth it's easy to unbalance somebody and or temporary blind them.

scorpy

this thread is full of internet toughguys, just like every other thread on this subject EVER.

anyway, speaking from a girl's point of view if I was being menaced by a bunch of scumbags I would just run like hell.
I did a self-defence course in transition year and one thing I still remember is the shin-scrape - scrape the edge of your shoe(this would work very nicely with doc martens) down the front of their shin, then stomp hard on their foot. guraranteed ow, and if you're wearing pointy heels you could do some nice damage!(then take the stilettos off and run like hell...)

RedRaven

scorpy wrote:

this thread is full of internet toughguys, just like every other thread on this subject EVER.

anyway, speaking from a girl's point of view if I was being menaced by a bunch of scumbags I would just run like hell.
I did a self-defence course in transition year and one thing I still remember is the shin-scrape - scrape the edge of your shoe(this would work very nicely with doc martens) down the front of their shin, then stomp hard on their foot. guraranteed ow, and if you're wearing pointy heels you could do some nice damage!(then take the stilettos off and run like hell...)

Very true about shin scrape, but if you miss the foot or catch it wrong youve got a broken ankle as you force down with your weight, oh and you also have an angry rape crew to deal with!!!

ven0m

I prefer the good old fashioned grabbing the bloke by the nuts & squeezing till he cries like a bitch & then smack him in the jaw with the intention of breaking it....... some ppl gotta learn the hard way....


::: ven0mous :::

Scarinae

ven0m wrote:

I prefer the good old fashioned grabbing the bloke by the nuts & squeezing till he cries like a bitch & then smack him in the jaw with the intention of breaking it....... some ppl gotta learn the hard way....


::: ven0mous :::

So what do you do then when 6 other guys jump on you and do the same back at you?