Northern Ireland

StupidLikeAFox · 04-07-2005 09:36PM

But theyre allowed irish passports and considered citizens of ireland, thats a bit silly...

Flukey · 05-07-2005 01:28AM

Geiger wrote:

Since most of the people that use the boards are from the south.

To be proper about it, you will find that that is not the case. Myself and probably a lot of the others here in and around Dublin, would be from the east! We've probably got a lot of people from the west too and the midlands, so it would definitely be the case that most of us are not from the south. Of course, using the definition of the south that you are using, we have the scenario that the most northerly point in Ireland is in the "south" and there are places where you can travel in a northerly direction from to get to the "south."

As to the politics of this, now that is a whole different discussion, one with many facets. You can go back 836 years on this one. The politics board is the place for it, and where you will find plenty about it. It is probably best to adjourn to there!

Citizen_Erased · 05-07-2005 01:33AM

When I'm travelling through belfast airport I dont consider myself home until I've passed the border into Donegal. Really , there is an incredible contrast which becomes evident when you regularly travel between the two states.

stevenmu · 05-07-2005 10:44AM

solas wrote:

I haven't forgotten the past, I'm just living in the present. I think the resurgance of nationalism/patriotism stems from the current US climate...and I don't really want to buy into it.

The thing is that living under occupation is in the past for us in the south but not for those in the north, and there have been some appaling violations of the human rights of catholics/republicans living there by the british government and it's agencies. I believe it's gotten a lot better in recent years but you only have to look at the results of the recent elections to see that it's still not right. A huge majority of those elected were unionists, when the majority of the population are republican. I do agree with you that the past needs to be forgotten/forgiven to help with peace in the present/future (I think that's what you're getting at anyway) but there are still big changes that need to be made.

the jew · 05-07-2005 11:04AM

Flukey wrote:

To be proper about it, you will find that that is not the case. Myself and probably a lot of the others here in and around Dublin, would be from the east! We've probably got a lot of people from the west too and the midlands, so it would definitely be the case that most of us are not from the south. Of course, using the definition of the south that you are using, we have the scenario that the most northerly point in Ireland is in the "south" and there are places where you can travel in a northerly direction from to get to the "south."

ffs, you know what the op means.

anyway the main thing i think when i go up the north is that it looks the exact same as england, all the sign posts are different and the roads have fancy little white stones on the surface, looks nicer than the south. it just feels like a part of england, although i don't view england as being that much different to ireland, not like going to spain or some other european place where you just feel like it's a completely different country, if you know what i'm saying.

cournioni · 05-07-2005 11:27AM

I only live about 13 miles from the border so I know and work with alot of people from up there. I have to say that NI to me is just the same as any other part of Ireland. To sum it up I think that it is occupied territory of Ireland. That is all really.

toiletduck · 05-07-2005 11:50AM

to me it's just part of the UK, thats what the majority there want and tbh thats grand with me.

MooShop · 05-07-2005 11:55AM

the jew wrote:

ffs, you know what the op means.

anyway the main thing i think when i go up the north is that it looks the exact same as england, all the sign posts are different and the roads have fancy little white stones on the surface, looks nicer than the south. it just feels like a part of england, although i don't view england as being that much different to ireland, not like going to spain or some other european place where you just feel like it's a completely different country, if you know what i'm saying.

yes this is true roads are better and signposts different like in england. they still use sterling and not Euro. though it is part of this island its a different state, got its own government and everything.

off topic: the jew, i like your sig, where did you get it??

the jew · 05-07-2005 12:05PM

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I only live about 13 miles from the border so I know and work with alot of people from up there. I have to say that NI to me is just the same as any other part of Ireland. To sum it up I think that it is occupied territory of Ireland. That is all really.

I live beside the border aswell, dunno how many miles, what ever dundalk is, about 15 min drive or something, so there are a lot of northerner's in the area, i'm not saying i treat the people any different to if they were from the south but when you go up the north you just know it's different to where you're used to, you can't say if someone landed you in northern ireland you wouldn't know that you're not in the republic, where as if some landed you in some random spot in ireland you would probably know that you're still in the south.

the jew · 05-07-2005 12:08PM

MooShop wrote:

off topic: the jew, i like your sig, where did you get it??

can't remember exactly, just had it saved on my computer from some random website.

DoraDelite · 05-07-2005 12:19PM

stevenmu wrote:

A huge majority of those elected were unionists, when the majority of the population are republican.

Wrong. The population spread is (roughly) 52/3% Protestant, 42/3% Catholic and 9/10% Other. Religion doesn't necessarily define political persuasion. And in the recent Northern elections there wasn't a HUGH majority of Unionists elected.

WhiteWashMan · 05-07-2005 12:27PM

i neither care nor am interested in the political situation of of NI.
I am not interested other peoples opinions on the topic.
im really not interested in people who live in the past and convinently forget that if you go back far enough, the english were invited in anyway.
Im not interested in the bigotted and sectarian crap that stems from either side, and im certainly not interested in the rubbish the irish 'nationals' spout about it all being one ireland blah blah blah blah blah.

the fact of the matter is, is that it is a seperate nation.
half the people have a seperate view point from the other half, and neither side have any interest in doing anything about it.

i only have interests in individuals i know from NI, and i have no interest in debating the matter with them either.

its a waste of time.

oh, as for remembering the british occupation, get over yourself. same old tired cliched rubbish weve been hearing for years. its time the ira spin doctors got themselves abother story. their current armed struggle crap is getting tedious.

Linoge · 05-07-2005 01:08PM

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i neither care nor am interested in the political situation of of NI.
I am not interested other peoples opinions on the topic.
im really not interested in people who live in the past and convinently forget that if you go back far enough, the english were invited in anyway.

Spoken like the true Englishman that you are. Don't blame yourself though, the English as a whole have a superiority complex.

And have to laugh at the whole "the English were invited". They were invited to start plantations, cause a famine and repress us? And of course they never would have gone near Ireland only for they were "invited". Yes, Ireland brought everything on itself by inviting the gollum that is the English. Is that what you are saying?

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the English, but I think that you sound more arrogant than neutral.

WhiteWashMan · 05-07-2005 01:17PM

im not english.
im irish.

and you just cant get over yourself. this 'oim oirish and repressed' crap is boring.

solas · 05-07-2005 01:22PM

I think there's too much americanism going on here..all this fighting for freedom crap really was left in the past and Ireland did enjoy some sense of resolution in the late ninties early o's. I'd much rather remember how those times were and not where we were 30 years ago. Ireland (north and south) was setting the pace for the rest of the civilized world and we genuinely made some huge advances towards peace in a democratic way.
Now it's trendy to bash people for the religion again and talk about how we are oppressed. It's a load of BS if you ask me..and stinks of America.
Thats the trouble with this "Global community"..it's full of yanks.

*Sassy* · 05-07-2005 01:49PM

Getting back to the original question, I would have to say that I view Northern Ireland as a completely separate entity. Politics aside, it is a completely different culture, different government, currency, education system, the lot.

I would always specify that someone from the North is Northern Irish as opposed to Irish. Although, I have noticed that when presented with someone from the north, I immediately make assumptions as to what "side" they're on. For example if their name is Irish, or if they play hurling or something. I don't usually feel "the same" as someone from the north (in terms of nationality only of course).

I probably come across as completely ignorant, but I have to say, with all the years of hearing about the politics, Northern Ireland has negative connotations for me. I can't really explain it.

weemcd · 05-07-2005 02:48PM

Reading this thread there are some views that belong in the stone ages, but I was expecting much more negative responses than what was written.

In my opinion the whole thing is extremely complicated and blanket phrases like

toiletduck wrote:

to me it's just part of the UK, that’s what the majority there want and tbh thats grand with me.

don't help anyone.

If anyone from south of the boarder (down Mexico way

) receives bigotry from someone they meet in the north, there is nothing to say that I, being from the north would not also receive abuse from a bigoted person because of where I am from, my religion, political beliefs etc.

If you think about it this way; the exact same goes for if I was to go down to Dublin and be called a "northern bastard" by some skanger, the skanger is equally likely to start on any one of you outside a nightclub because he is scum. Scum up here, scum down there. Where I come from would merley be used as a trigger.

On the other hand if you give people a chance, you see the best in them, being down at football events at croker and more recently the U2 gig the people are some of the warmest you will ever meet. Only recently have I began associating myself with Protestants, socially and through work, while I am ashamed to say this, it is hardly my fault due to the segregation of schools etc. But recently I have made friends who I would treat no differently to those of the same religion as myself.

As long as society realise that people are only people, and that there is scum everywhere, the majority of decent people should get along without prejudice regardless of geography.

toiletduck · 05-07-2005 03:04PM

My "blanket phrase" as you put it, is what i think i.e. unlike a lot of other posters i dont think it's "occupied" or any other republican crap like that.

weemcd wrote:

As long as society realise that people are only people, and that there is scum everywhere, the majority of decent people should get along without prejudice regardless of geography.

totally agree

Sleepy · 05-07-2005 03:19PM

I think anyone interested enough to jump down my throat over my political views would know them already from the politics board so I'll just give my impression of the people of Northern Ireland from my few trips over the border.

Like most places, the majority of the people are lovely, there's the few bigots either end of the scale but most people don't bat an eyelid. It can be quite intimidating to drive into 'the wrong side' of town, particularly when you're in a staunchly unionist area in a republic-registered car and it's remarkably easy to find yourself in that 'wrong area' very quickly (though maybe that's because I was working in East Belfast).

Architecturally and culturally, Northern Ireland seemed closer to Edinburgh than Dublin to me at least. One aspect of northern life certainly intrigued me, the women seem far more at ease with their sexuality than Irish girls do. This could have just been the women I met up there but I have to say I'm curious as to other's experiences up there... should all us single blokes be heading for Belfast?

Mr.Nice Guy · 05-07-2005 04:11PM

Hydroquinone wrote:

Fraid not. If it was part of the Irish nation - whatever that might mean - then citizens of it would be able to vote in Irish constitutional referenda. Or in Irish elections.
Which they're not.

It is part of the Irish nation. Here is what Article 2 of Bunreacht na hEireann states:

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

Hydroquinone wrote:

How ironic, eh? When the last referendum we had concerned itself with the rights of who should or should not have Irish citizenship and yet any Irish citizen resident anywhere else in the world, apart from here didn't get a vote. Even those living on the same island. And why? Because it's a different country

You don't seem to understand the difference between a nation and a state. For example, there is no Palestinian state yet many recognise that there is a Palestinian nation.

eyebrows · 05-07-2005 05:18PM

all I have to say is: ya cant beat 24 cans of Carlsberg for 25 quid(get that inta ya). Being from Dundalk that is the first thing I think of when thinking of NI (that and the IRA... and the whole Catholics vs. Protestants bullshít).

Bobby Storey · 05-07-2005 06:05PM

Hate to bust the bubbles of all the idiots who think that there are two seperate countries in Ireland. But according to the IRISH government there is only 1, yes ONE. Just checking the passport before heading off on holidays and in big gold letters on the front along with a harp it says,Eire/Ireland (for those Southern loyalists who don't read Irish). NÁISIÚNTACHT/ÉIREANNACH NATIONALITY IRISH/ ÁIT BHREITHE PLACE OF BIRTH AONTROIM ANTRIM. So according to the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs (The Government) Northern Ireland AND The Republic of Ireland don't exist.

BTW
Why is Dublin the only county in all of Ireland to have their name in English on the sleeve of their GAA county shirts?

Sarky · 05-07-2005 06:11PM

Also, what WWMan said.

Bobby Storey · 05-07-2005 06:29PM

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i neither care nor am interested in the political situation of of NI.
I am not interested other peoples opinions on the topic.

Then why are you posting on this thread, when it is easier to ignore it?

Linoge · 05-07-2005 07:08PM

Bobby Storey wrote:

Hate to bust the bubbles of all the idiots who think that there are two seperate countries in Ireland. But according to the IRISH government there is only 1, yes ONE. Just checking the passport before heading off on holidays and in big gold letters on the front along with a harp it says,Eire/Ireland (for those Southern loyalists who don't read Irish). NÁISIÚNTACHT/ÉIREANNACH NATIONALITY IRISH/ ÁIT BHREITHE PLACE OF BIRTH AONTROIM ANTRIM. So according to the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs (The Government) Northern Ireland AND The Republic of Ireland don't exist.

According to the Irish government nothing. What you have is a passport, it hardly reflects the views of the government. Anyway, dual citizenship is the only reason a person from Antrim is classed as Irish. Ken Bigley got an Irish passport, that doesn't mean that the government recognises England as part of Ireland or doesn't recognise England as a country.

Not that it matters to you though because with just 5 posts spouting crap like that (sarcastic or not), you sound like a troll.

Hydroquinone · 05-07-2005 07:53PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

It is part of the Irish nation. Here is what Article 2 of Bunreacht na hEireann states:

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

If you want to quote the constitution at me, you might want to remember that the 2004 amendment changed the wording of that part.
Everyone born on this island is not entitled to be part of the Irish nation, if that means holding Irish citizenship.
The referendum I'm talking about was the one I mentioned in my first post that you disagreed with - the one where I remarked that people who lived in the part of this island where sterling is used were not allowed to vote on the future of citizenship to a place where they, themselves were citizens.

I didn't know that there was a difference between the definition of a nation and a state. But I'm stull unsure then, quite what a nation is.
What is it?

dlofnep · 05-07-2005 08:27PM

I like the lads up the North. I don't see them as a seperate country, I just see them as Dubliners are jackeens, cork people are langers and northerners are northerners.

Mr.Nice Guy · 05-07-2005 09:19PM

Hydroquinone wrote:

If you want to quote the constitution at me, you might want to remember that the 2004 amendment changed the wording of that part.
Everyone born on this island is not entitled to be part of the Irish nation, if that means holding Irish citizenship.
The referendum I'm talking about was the one I mentioned in my first post that you disagreed with - the one where I remarked that people who lived in the part of this island where sterling is used were not allowed to vote on the future of citizenship to a place where they, themselves were citizens.

I beg your pardon but what you called me up on was this statement I made:

"It's a separate state but it's part of the Irish nation"

You then went on to say:

"Fraid not. If it was part of the Irish nation - whatever that might mean - then citizens of it would be able to vote in Irish constitutional referenda. Or in Irish elections.
Which they're not."

YOU brought citizenship into it. The fact is, as I've pointed out to you, people in the North are entitled to consider themselves part of the Irish nation according to the Irish constitution. You claimed this was not the case. You're wrong.

[QUOTE=HydroquinoneI didn't know that there was a difference between the definition of a nation and a state. But I'm stull unsure then, quite what a nation is.
What is it?[/QUOTE]

A nation is defined as a large community of people of mainly common descent,language, history, etc. A state is defined by its legal parameters. There is no Palestinian state, Basque state or Chechen state but many would be of the opinion that there is a Palestinian, Basque and Chechen nation respectively.

Sparky · 05-07-2005 10:19PM

TBH ive worked with some lads from NI and they are the most genuine people you could meet, other lads from NI who i have met through buisness and got to know are sound also, i have no problem with northern people and my view is that its part of ireland but is ruled by the uk

Hydroquinone · 05-07-2005 10:22PM

Thanks for clarifying that, Mr.Nice Guy.
I apologise for thinking that a nation and a state were the same thing. My mistake.

Northern Ireland

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