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ITV FTA decision: Not before April...

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    How do you regionalise your BBC without a card? When BBC went FTA it was said that Sky would add a menu allowing you to select a region, but this never happened. I still get BBC London on 101. (Not that I could care less, but I'm sure there are people in the UK that want to be able to view their local nesws).

    Other regions are in the 900s though. Not ideal, but......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,732 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    This morning.....

    ITV enlists Dyke for fight against Sky

    http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1471186,00.html
    Jane Martinson, media business editor
    Wednesday April 27, 2005
    The Guardian

    ITV has turned to former BBC director general Greg Dyke for help in its regulatory battle against BSkyB amid early indications that industry watchdog Ofcom may find in favour of the satellite group.

    Although no final decision has been reached, Ofcom has indicated it believes a central plank of ITV's case - an earlier deal between the BBC and Sky - may not be relevant.

    This initial view, delivered verbally, comes three months after negotiations between ITV and Sky over how much the satellite operator charges the broadcaster to appear on its service reached a deadlock and ITV referred the matter to Ofcom.

    However, a source with knowledge of the talks said: "The battle isn't over. Only the first round has gone to Sky."

    In particular, ITV's lawyers hope to use testimony from Mr Dyke, who wrote extensively about his negotiations with Sky in his book, Inside Story.

    Ofcom, ITV, Sky and Greg Dyke all declined to comment yesterday.

    Ofcom is still investigating the complaint and ITV hopes to convince the regulator with further submissions from Mr Dyke and others. A final decision is not expected until the end of May and industry analysts believe ITV and Sky could reach a deal before then.

    However, early signs suggest that Ofcom's first investigation into Sky may continue its reputation for never having lost a regulatory battle.

    The case revolves around whether the amount Sky charges ITV1 to have its services encrypted and shown nationally on channel 103 are "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms".

    A central plank of ITV's case is that the deal agreed between Sky and the BBC in 2003 set a precedent for their own contract with the satellite group.

    Under this deal, the BBC is thought to pay about £4m to ensure that regional versions of BBC1 and BBC2 appear in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The BBC's main channels were also given slots on Sky's electronic programme guide (EPG) of 101 and 102. The deal marked the decision by the BBC to go "in the clear" rather than pay for full encryption.

    In contrast, ITV pays Sky £17m a year for full conditional access and encryption services, which it argued was discriminatory.

    However, Ofcom executives have indicated that the BBC's deal was a "rollover" relating to the corporation's existing relationship with Sky rather than a new deal.

    ITV advisers were surprised by this preliminary finding, given the bitterly fought negotiations between Sky and the BBC. So the commercial broadcaster turned to the former director general for his knowledge of the BBC/Sky negotiations.

    In his book, Mr Dyke outlines how he decided to withdraw from the Sky service and broadcast the BBC's digital channels "in the clear" after balking at the amount the satellite group wanted to charge.

    After referring the matter to the regulator, the two sides reached a last-ditch compromise in which the BBC still had to pay to have its channels listed on EPG and regionalised.

    In its submission to Ofcom, ITV has argued that the £4m a year the BBC is believed to pay Sky for this regionalisation deal should be a benchmark for a similar service for ITV1.

    Sky offered to lower slightly ITV's fees for regionalisation - thought to be about £13m - but this figure was rejected by ITV before its decision to go to Ofcom for arbitration.

    The row could have wider implications if ITV decides to broadcast its channels without encryption, as this would allow it to team up with the BBC and launch a satellite version of popular digital service Freeview.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1434197,00.html

    ITV is understood to believe it can support a free satellite platform at the same time as continuing to pay BSkyB millions of pounds a year to keep ITV1 as a paid-for channel on Sky.


    ?

    ITV1 has never been a "paid for channel", just FTV. ITV2 on the other hand...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    Any update on this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    over on DS today i saw June being mentioned. i can see ITV never being FTA the way this is going


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    Could anyone like to explain what benefit are ITV (or C4/5 for that matter) getting out of being encrypted anyway given that theyve always used the 2D satellite.

    The BBC dont get any hasstle from rights holders over being FTA so why should ITV be treated any different

    Even if ITV had to pay extra for programme rights due to being viewable in the Republic (and remember the BBC dont) surely it doesnt matter since
    1) The amount involved would be peanuts in relative terms (going by population were talking an extra 6 or 7 percent)
    2) All the extra revenue theyd get from advertisers targetting the Republic (especially on UTV)

    Besides all the arguments about programme rights in different national territories is a bit of a red herring anyway For one thing the majority of programmes on ITV are produced by ITV and for another thing TV3 carry lots of ITV programming and despite the overwhelming majority of its viewers having access to the same programmes on UTV or HTV most of them still choose to watch it on TV3 and thats in a country that shares the same first language. Which makes this idea that millions of viewers in Spain (assuming they can even get a signal from 2D) are going to to bother tuning into a British channel to watch a programme thats carried on TVE (even if they can speak English) even more laughable :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Most of the argument seems to be over the price of regionalisation and inclusion on the Sky EPG rather than encryption from what I can make out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    You know a lot of this regionalisation nonsense could be sorted out with some simple changes to $ky's EPG software in order to give a "regionalisation" option in the setup menu allowing the viewer to select which regional version of the EPG they want

    Anyone wanting to watch out of region programmes could use the add channels/other channels menu

    Benefits would include
    1) Lower costs to Broadcasters (including $ky)
    2) No more viewers getting the wrong BBC or ITV region due to errors in Sky's postcode database (not that FIXING said errors is THAT complicated if they could be @r$€;d)
    3) More choice for viewere i.e. a Scots viewer living in Plymouth could choose the Southern or Scottish version of the EPG
    4) EPG wouldnt be cluttered up with 22 versions of BBC1 etc the resulting spare capacity could be used to allow channels friom the "other channels" menu to appear at the top range of the EPG
    5) Radio EPG could also be regionalised (i.e. BBC radios Scotland, Wales and Ulster could appear in a more logical sequence on the EPG)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,732 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    According to DS, more ITV regions are due to launch..... so some sat activity in store for ITV...

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcasting/upcoming/
    ITV1 Central East
    Week commencing June 13th
    Sky EPG number 103

    ITV1 Central South
    Week commencing June 13th
    Sky EPG number 103

    ITV1 Anglia East
    Week commencing June 20th
    Sky EPG number 103

    Scottish TV East
    Week commencing June 20th
    Sky EPG number 103


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Ulsterman 1690


    What is the point of that for heavens sake ?

    I mean having spent the last eight years increacingly homogonising the ITV network they are now creating new regions :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :confused:


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    At a guess - Advertising.
    The only difference between the channel 4 regions are the Ads.

    Also regional news programs and local slots.
    But compared to Italy the regional variation is tiny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Drag00n79


    What is the point of that for heavens sake ?

    I mean having spent the last eight years increacingly homogonising the ITV network they are now creating new regions :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :confused:

    The regions mentioned are not new. It's just that they were never available on Sky Digital up til now. Some others are still not available.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭Colm80


    There is a guy over on DS saying that he has it on good authority that ITV will renew there CA agreement with Sky for another 5 years. He also assumes that ITV 2 and 3 will rejoin the family pack. This guy is a senior editor for Digi Online. So is the the end of the ITV saga or is it going to go on and on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭Macy


    Colm80 wrote:
    There is a guy over on DS saying that he has it on good authority that ITV will renew there CA agreement with Sky for another 5 years. He also assumes that ITV 2 and 3 will rejoin the family pack. This guy is a senior editor for Digi Online.
    I've kinda accepted that it would stay encrypted at this stage, but be píssed off if ITV2 and 3 go family pack. Having said that I'd be quite surprised if ITV3 went Family Pack after launching FTA, surely it could've gone FTV in that case....
    Colm80 wrote:
    So is the the end of the ITV saga or is it going to go on and on.
    I really bloody hope so...


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Macy wrote:
    I've kinda accepted that it would stay encrypted at this stage, but be píssed off if ITV2 and 3 go family pack. Having said that I'd be quite surprised if ITV3 went Family Pack after launching FTA, surely it could've gone FTV in that case....


    I really bloody hope so...

    Remember TCM ? FTA once for a long time-sub only now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭Macy


    Earthman wrote:
    Remember TCM ? FTA once for a long time-sub only now
    Actually, no :D Well before my Satellite days.....

    ITV3 handy for Cracker repeats - the father in law would miss it more (as he's FTA only, and likes his crime drama's).

    tbh the speculation is just dragging on now, even if I'm as bad, and just hope there's an outcome soon.

    I wonder what the reaction would be in the UK if ITV FTV/FTA channels go sub? Would there be much of backlash?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 742 ✭✭✭channelsurfer


    I see now on DS that some are saying that itv have backed freesat according to a article in C21 media. I guess it is all up in the air until the ofcom decision which they say will be another 6 weeks or so. But it would be strange for itv to go back to family pack unless sky are gonna reduce price and the condition of the reduced price is that itv2 and 3 are put into family pack.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭djpaul


    Just heard a rumour that ITV 1, 2 Will be available as part of the
    family pack from the 1st of september (source- sky insider) don't know
    how true that is but sky are to increase their subscription price from the 1st.


    I thought Itv were going free to air.?? Hmm...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭Macy


    ofcom decision which they say will be another 6 weeks or so.
    :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Ultimately, ITV will make the decision based on what makes financial sense to them. I don't know whether the OFCOM delay is a good thing or a bad thing - must be extremely complex or perhaps ITV are looking for decisions on various scenario's? e.g. FTA, FTV, Mix, Regionalisation, All regions on EPG (as per BBC) etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭Macy


    djpaul wrote:
    Just heard a rumour that ITV 1, 2 Will be available as part of the
    family pack from the 1st of september (source- sky insider) don't know
    how true that is but sky are to increase their subscription price from the 1st.
    In fairness, how many times have sky insiders said that? Could finally be true, but they're like the economists that are continually predicted the end of the house market boom :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    ITV1 as part of family pack?

    is this in the UK? that wouldnt go down too well and also isnt it against the law to not have ITV1 free


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    how much longer will this go on?

    whats worse is posts along the lines of this:
    "I just heard a rumour from the cleaner of the toilets in the pub next door to sky who overheard two people confirming that ITV1 would be FTA from next tuesday"

    I'll just wait untill I see an official release of some kind


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,353 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    who is the sky insider? Somebody trying to drum up sales perhaps? not the first this has happened.

    djpaul wrote:
    Just heard a rumour that ITV 1, 2 Will be available as part of the
    family pack from the 1st of september (source- sky insider) don't know
    how true that is but sky are to increase their subscription price from the 1st.


    I thought Itv were going free to air.?? Hmm...

    Owner: satellite.ie https://satellite.ie/



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭djpaul


    Tony wrote:
    who is the sky insider? Somebody trying to drum up sales perhaps? not the first this has happened.

    True, until it's offical and on paper, it will just be a rumour. Hopefully we will
    hear somthing soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 742 ✭✭✭channelsurfer


    just a thought but if the rumour is true it could be that sky reduced the price slightly on condition that itv be available in the republic. this would suit both sides.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I dont think this place would be served well by becoming a rumour mill.
    In the past when this has happened,rows have broken out.
    Lots of satelite installers do unfortunately spread rumours about this channel or that channell and especially UTV & four but as Tony has said alas this is usually just a trick to drum up sales.

    Closing this thread.

    When theres something substantive,I'm sure there will be a new thread.


This discussion has been closed.
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